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very upset about the death of the music industry
Poast new message in this thread
Date: January 5th, 2026 8:10 PM Author: diverse private investor so much talent we'll never hear from because album sales are no longer profitable (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565307) |
Date: January 5th, 2026 8:11 PM Author: Passionate Son Of Senegal Dingle Berry Can’t they just do Streaming and Use AI for production and the like (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565310) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 8:15 PM Author: diverse private investor that's what was promised but it only made it worse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565329) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 8:24 PM Author: Grizzly candlestick maker people will never be willing to pay anywhere near as much for streaming as the amount of money made through CDs
there's also the loss of the secondary incentives: there is so much old music around now that everyone has instant access to. If you're dropping 15 bucks (in 2000 dollars btw) on maybe an hours worth of music you actually have to choose between new shit and old shit. And unless you grew up in a big city you were probably buying from some place that had only a very limited selection of the old shit. So a physical store cares more about "new": it's how you draw people in constantly. There was an entire supply chain that encouraged the production of Hot New Albums which disappeared the second the user has unlimited consumption power per dollar spent
It fuckin sucks, yeah. |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 8:38 PM Author: maize lodge The larger issue is no one makes anything worth listening to. Makes the old stuff sound a lot cooler. If there was even one good record in the last 10 years I'd be completely surprised. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565395) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 8:45 PM Author: diverse private investor That's because the music industry is dead (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565420) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 8:53 PM Author: maize lodge Well the #1 thing the industry offered was exposure and capital. If you can make a record in your closet and reach millions of people online what do you need a label for? Hmm? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565457) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 8:46 PM Author: Cream Sweet Tailpipe it's circular. there's no economic incentive to grind away into greatness and put out great records. it just gets lost in the flood of merely good records and even if it somehow hits you make a fraction of what you used to. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565427) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 8:54 PM Author: maize lodge (Alvvays super fan) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565458) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 8:56 PM Author: Boyish macaca orchestra pit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565465) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 9:12 PM Author: Cream Sweet Tailpipe just listened, meh. it's like REM meets cranberries with the occasional MBV tremolo. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565508) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 9:14 PM Author: maize lodge "there's no economic incentive to grind away into greatness and put out great records. it just gets lost in the flood of merely good records" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565516) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 9:16 PM Author: Cream Sweet Tailpipe REM is bor-ing and MBV is a one trick pony, albeit a novel one. cranberries are great though, timeless stuff. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565521) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 10:13 PM Author: insanely creepy casino regret Blue Rev is 190 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565673) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 8:46 PM Author: Grizzly candlestick maker That's a direct consequence of how much harder it is to actually make a living off music now. And to the extent it's still possible those who succeed are the ones focusing on social media and brand and that sort of gay shit. You think Kurt Cobain forms Nirvana if he grows up a discord addled zoomer who was never exposed to any concept of "local bands" and forced to contextualize from childhood that making it in the music industry = tiktok? He would've thought music is gay and gone off to play league of legends all day or something. The kids have no fucking chance, man. Our generation witnessed both its height and total destruction, which is pretty remarkable (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565429) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 8:58 PM Author: maize lodge Ok now explain how random 90s grunge bands like Deftones randomly break out on TikTok and have a moment and the youth get really obsessed with them overnight and you have Zoomers and Gen Alpha kids running around talking about whether Around the Fur was better than White Pony? Seems like the demand actually is there.
You need human beings with talent to make a record. You need capital to invest in something with a low likelihood of working out. But I think that objectively if someone put out a top tier rock record today people would go crazy for it. Besides Tame Impala who haven't had a hit since 2015 or Alt J who haven't had a hit since about 2012 no one has stepped up to the plate. And yes I realize neither are American. Seems like people are just lazy. Stop playing LoL and practice your guitar dummies. It can happen again. |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 9:04 PM Author: Grizzly candlestick maker The potential to work out as an actual career is the point. Kurt Cobain doesn't create Nirvana today because he sees no vision for its success, and he would be correct. There is no ladder starting on a local level promoting new music. He has nowhere to start except tiktok. And not only does he have to subject himself to that gay bullshit, he has to be *better at it than AI generated porn GFs backed by an expert in social media marketing slop* at it. There is no ladder: you have to jump in the deep end of bull shit on the 1/1000 chance too are both willing to debase yourself *and* better than the people who are experts at doing it.
All that is to say it used to be real simple: make music people around you want to buy and make money. That world and supply chain doesn't exist anymore. Kurt Cobain doesn't form Nirvana because not only are his odds of reasonably making it a fraction of what they once were, there's also just so much more fucking bullshit required now instead of just making music. |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 9:19 PM Author: maize lodge Kurt was obsessive. He journaled and made collages and shit all the time. Music was his self-expression, he was never going to do anything else. He would have been fine with his marginally competent bass player buddy and some shitty local drummer (before they found Dave). There has to be at least ONE LAST AUTISTIC rock god in all of America. There has to be another Jack White somewhere. You're telling me there isn't even ONE autistic guy left in this country enough to make a great record? You're crazy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565528) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 9:11 PM Author: Cream Sweet Tailpipe the rock underground is pumping the shit out of geese recently, but what has that really gotten them? they have 2 million listeners a month on spotify. that's like $8k. compared to other critical breakout acts like the strokes or nirvana it's nothing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565505) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 9:16 PM Author: maize lodge Let me let you in on a little secret about Geese. Geese, actually, sucks. It's not good. I think if "Geese" didn't suck they'd probably have a lot more fans. This is not good music. Yeah they got a bunch of spotlight promo from the industry trying to forcememe them. I'd bet my left testicle that everyone ITT could hum the melody to In Bloom, Polly, Rape Me, SLTS, et al. off the cuff now hum a "Geese" song. I'll wait. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565522) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 9:17 PM Author: Cream Sweet Tailpipe THERES A BOMB IN MY CAR (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565524) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 9:20 PM Author: maize lodge This is the worst record I've ever heard and these guys should kill themselves. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565534) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 10:59 AM Author: Khaki quadroon plenty of discord addled zoomers are making music. they listen and create just as much music as previous generations.
the issue is that we're Old and people are dismissive of shit like ashnikko and sabrina carpenter. in the exact same way boomers were dismissive of nirvana, etc.
you're right that not as many people can make a living on it as before. but it's not like the indie garage and grunge bands were (generally) in it for that. in fact the whole ethos was a rejection of music industry corporatism. if kurt was around today he would still have made music, just not something middle-adged men were interested, which is exactly how it was in 1990 too. |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 11:22 AM Author: maize lodge There is a lot of consensus though among music scholars and fans that music has objectively gotten worse. It's more than just generational. Greatest Gen obviously didn't listen to early rock and roll and thought it was stupid, Boomers never got into grunge and alternative in the 90s. But cmon man Sabrina Carpenter is not going to hold up to the test of time. It's all egregious slop now. It's not just generational, they don't even play any real instruments anymore and even before the advent of AI songs are written in a production factory in the most slopified manner possible. Music stars today are just people who are good looking and social media savvy. No reason to believe that Zoomer music is going to be around while I think it's safe to say "Eric Clapton" an artist I have never listened to, will still be considered a classic a hundred years from now.
https://youtu.be/YXzB4v1Toj4 |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 11:36 AM Author: Khaki quadroon cr "no reason to believe" other than the exact same criticisms were made about elvis, beatles, bowie, the cure and nirvana and the only difference now is that *you're* now the grumpy middle adged man. it's just, like, *objectively* worse! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566471) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 11:39 AM Author: maize lodge Beato: "No one is going to remember the nominees for song of the year in a couple of years but people are still streaming Sting and Michael Jackson in large numbers."
We have to go to the metrics. Staying power is real. The nominees from the 80s sold millions of records, and then came back strong in the digital age. Older music appreciates at a faster rate than new music. There's a preponderance of evidence. It's not just old people whinging.
If you were an investor and you had the chance to buy Sabrina Carpenters catalog for dirt cheap or own Michael Jackson or the Beatles you'd have to be pretty retarded to bet big on new music. |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 11:52 AM Author: Grizzly candlestick maker how exactly is he supposed to, in a very literal sense, become popular? the fact is the structure of the music industry has shifted radically to reorient around tiktok and the like. you really think kurt cobain is going to be a social media mastermind? can you name zoomer acts who became popular through some means other than tiktok/social media (not counting disney stars or whatever)? there used to be a huge ecosystem around local music and bands and the like which has mostly evaporated. and to the extent it still exists it's actually mostly aging millennials in bands rather than zoomers.
there is just no way that person thrives making a career out of music in todays landscape. there is not some cosmic force of Great Man Music Theory which ensures in every universe of sufficient technological capability kurt cobain starts a great band. we have destroyed the conditions which allowed such things to be possible |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 11:57 AM Author: maize lodge I think it can happen if a band is really talented, which no one has seen in a very long time. Just imagine Geese, but if they were actually good. Somehow we've all heard of Geese despite their records being unlistenable. Now imagine if they were original and exciting. It's rare but it could happen per se.
Greta Van Fleet was another band that got famous without actually being any good at music. But they still maed it. |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 12:11 PM Author: Khaki quadroon plenty of sad boy type musicians break out today too. a zoomer kurt would be a zoomer and be adept at zoomer promotion. i thought we were talking about a hypothetical LoL playing zoomer kurt. if you put actual kurt into 2020 of course he'd be out of touch. same if you took the everly brothers and had them try to make it big in the grunge scene. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566550) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 10:46 AM Author: Khaki quadroon $15 dollars (inflated adjusted $200) for a new radicals CD that's absolute dogshit except for their one hit song (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566396) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 11:36 AM Author: maize lodge Ya it was bogus how Tower Records used to fuck our ass with the pricing but now that they're out of business and we have the internet things have gotten so much better 🙄 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566469) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 11:52 AM Author: Khaki quadroon ? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566512) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 11:55 AM Author: maize lodge I thought you were complaining that bands in the 90s only had one hit on their record and records were expensive. True but in the age of streaming rock no longer exists as a genre and everything has gotten far worse. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566520) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 12:12 PM Author: Khaki quadroon no i was just making a joke about the experience of buying a shitty album off the strength of one song. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566552) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 8:11 PM Author: wild idiot Lmao tyft (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565312) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 8:11 PM Author: maize lodge Bieber, Taylor Swift, lots of nig nog rap making a ton from streaming, merch, and touring brother... Record profits, Anyone can maek it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565313) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 8:26 PM Author: Talented naked corner I don’t understand this complaint. There is more music being made now than ever, and anyone can produce a record in their bedroom. It’s just not being Curated by Jewish record executives. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565367) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 8:42 PM Author: lake associate I think the demand for good rock and pop is there, but Jewish execs won't allow it. It's like Hollywood Christian movies. Passion of the Christ did extremely well and people would eat it up, but it's taboo in Satanic Pedowood (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565404) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 8:43 PM Author: Idiotic glittery sex offender (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565407) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 8:44 PM Author: diverse private investor The demand is there why wouldn't they? The model is dead (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565413) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 8:45 PM Author: Idiotic glittery sex offender you will never see a white 40 year old man singing don’t stop the dance again tp (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565423) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 9:13 PM Author: Racy brindle hospital tattoo And it’s not like it’s been replaced with… anything. Just a “The Nothing”-esque mass of “digital content” slop overwhelming and starving everything that once was a culture. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565511) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 9:14 PM Author: Cream Sweet Tailpipe (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565514) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 9:19 PM Author: diverse private investor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565531) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 11:05 PM Author: Salmon coffee pot theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565753) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 10:25 PM Author: slippery iridescent site marketing idea AI is rapidly solving this problem. It’s already very hard for humans to distinguish AI from human generated music:
https://x.com/emollick/status/1981501021320053020?s=46
2026 should see deployment of significantly larger AI training clusters that will permit training of even better models. With extensive RL training, abundant and cheap superhuman quality music will likely be here soon. |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 10:33 PM Author: Fragrant tanning salon karate You jeets are going to ruin the world. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565699) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 10:39 PM Author: mind-boggling rambunctious gas station https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrm8w-pV120 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565709) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 1:55 PM Author: slippery iridescent site marketing idea Artists are almost all libs and deserve to be unemployed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566820) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 11:00 PM Author: Comical hissy fit Sumo is insane. It can write as well as pretty much anyone. Pretty soon I bet we’ll have something where you can tell Logic Pro to “insert a catchy hit chorus here” and get really high quality results. Will be interring to see what it means when everyone’s shitty hobby band is writing “hits.” (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565739) |
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Date: January 5th, 2026 11:04 PM Author: maize lodge According to Rick Beato, every major songwriter in Nashville and in LA who pens tunes for a living is already using AI as a tool to come up with hits. Beato says he expects the amount of music a big artist is able to put out will grow substantially. He thinks famous artists could start putting out 3-4 records every year once AI speeds up the technology and people can rip hits constantly. But he also thinks it won't replace humans writing songs entirely, it will just coexist. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49565750) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 10:43 AM Author: Comical hissy fit They’d be stupid not to. I’m in a shitty hobby band and I use it to fuck around writing songs with my buddies. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566390) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 11:02 AM Author: shaky electric furnace here Beato breaks down the nominees for Song of the Year: samples, interpolations, and 10-person writing teams.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXzB4v1Toj4 |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 11:22 AM Author: maize lodge Absolute dogshit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566456) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 11:35 AM Author: maize lodge Even the songs he said were good, weren't good LOL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566468) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 12:07 PM Author: Cream Sweet Tailpipe the anxiety one is completely ridiculous. it's a total copy and paste of a song literally everyone still remembers. sampling is fine and all but it shouldn't be within 100 miles of any "award". the grammys were always kind of industry bullshit but they're really tipping their hand here. your average local indie band deserves it more than this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566546) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 1:36 PM Author: shaky electric furnace and it's sampling from a pastiche of samplings that Gotye did.
https://www.tiktok.com/@baauermusic/video/7400753437035466027?lang=en |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 12:41 PM Author: Cream Sweet Tailpipe this is kind of on point. gen z bro doesn't even have a reference point for this kind of stuff. it's 50 years old and blowing his mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgzCXtoBO6U |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 12:55 PM Author: maize lodge Lol I've listened to LZIV probably a thousand times. I started listening to it when I was in elementary school. Amazing there are people who have never heard it. How is this possible? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566672) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 12:59 PM Author: Cream Sweet Tailpipe it's 50 years old man. were you listening to records from the 40s when you were a kid? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566686) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 1:16 PM Author: maize lodge I mean I was raised on classical when is that from. Herbert von Karajan. Sir George Solti. Carl Orf. Aaron Copeland. Wagner.
Then I got into ragtime and stuff from the 20s. My parents listened to a lot of motown. At church we were singing from the Quaker hymnal it was a lot of stuff from the 19th century. More yet a lot of our church songs were adapted from shit from the 50s. At Christmas we listened to records from the 40s I guarantee you have never heard of.
To the extent I was exposed to rock my dad only tolerated records from the 60s and 70s. I don't think he had much of anything after 1980. He told me that anything that came after Pink Floyd, Yes, Deep Purple, Can, and Tangerine Dream was rubbish.
I never heard Nirvana or any alternative band until Napster came out. First time I heard any alt rock. |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 12:48 PM Author: Khaki quadroon The Absolute State of the AAA Music Industry is dead imo. The Media Wars are over and Streaming wom. There are No Albums. Costco doesn't even sell CD or Vinyl players imo. At Best Buy you may see a Gen Xers fiddling through Sting and ABBA albums. Maybe a Losery Millennial trying find a clearance Nevermind CD. They are in Dead Men listlessly Existing but not Living imo.
One needs only to look at the concurrent Spotify Plays to see. AAA Music Devs are still trying to unload Chinese Democracy CDs for $30 USD while Zoomers have thousands of hours playing Bad Bunny F2P.
AAA Media is dead imo and Gen Xers and Millennials lost their own damn gens imho.
Discuss. |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 1:30 PM Author: Splenetic Famous Landscape Painting “Vinyl players” (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566760) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 1:41 PM Author: Khaki quadroon CD player
Tape player
DVD player
Blu-Ray player
Gen Xer hoarding vintage Stratocasters and AAA First Press Vinyls "UM ACKSHUALLY IT'S A TURNTABLE"
This is why you lost your own Gen and why zoomers would rather listen to F2P Soundcloud Rap rather than AAA remakes of 90s Hits imo. |
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Date: January 7th, 2026 6:37 PM Author: Splenetic Famous Landscape Painting Record player (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49570434) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 12:57 PM Author: carnelian chapel (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566676) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 1:01 PM Author: Cream Sweet Tailpipe i think this is where it has to go, but it's going to be very small and "artisanal" for a lack of a better of word, kind of like a farmers market where they have to smile and shake your hand and give a spiel about their product to make a sale. it's a buyer's market, rock posturing is dead. musicians and the die hard fans are going to going to have to create and support their own scenes/economies to the exclusion of outside stuff. i.e. "buy local". 99% of people will be fine with $15/mo spotify slop though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566692) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 1:39 PM Author: wild idiot stop bumping this shitty thread jfc it won't fall out of my poasted in (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566782) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 1:42 PM Author: Cream Sweet Tailpipe THERES A BOMB IN MY THREAD (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566789) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 1:43 PM Author: Khaki quadroon cr every time i see this thread i think about what 180 NSAM sweet corn or venezuela poast i missed out on (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566791) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 1:48 PM Author: wild idiot i posted one "lmao" as like the 2nd reply to this thread because i thought the OP had to be sarcasm
imagine my shock when i clicked on it again the next day and found....this |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 1:55 PM Author: Khaki quadroon look man this is a based antisemetic message bort so OF COURSE a bunch of people here miss kike rent-seeking middlemen curating "good music" for goy consoomers (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49566821) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 3:14 PM Author: Snowy Fighting Rigor This whole situation reminds me of the state of gaming. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49567039) |
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Date: January 6th, 2026 3:27 PM Author: Cream Sweet Tailpipe same issue. it's gotten so cheap and easy to generate content that it's become worthless, economically and psychologically. the real problem - as someone above noted - is that this stuff used to be "meaningful" to millions of people but nothing has replaced it. something has to fill that space. sportsball? politics? war? religious revival? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5817757&forum_id=2"#49567078) |