\
  The most prestigious law school admissions discussion board in the world.
BackRefresh Options Favorite

what happened to the HO HEY bands, Lumineers, Mumford & Sons

all this faux folk music seemed to coalesce around Obergefel...
Dunedain cowboy
  11/08/24
I really hated them.
Candy Ride
  11/08/24
...
Nordic Nightmare
  11/08/24
I always think of this as 'millennial music' and it's the ab...
animeboi
  11/08/24
...
Nordic Nightmare
  11/08/24
another nail in the coffin of shitlennials, now that we&rsqu...
soy jack
  11/08/24
...
Ass Sunstein
  11/08/24
they realized they couldn't make gayer music after Macklemor...
cheddar man
  11/08/24
an insanely gay era
Dunedain cowboy
  11/08/24
...
Candy Ride
  11/08/24
so many of my peers loved this music. While I don't "ha...
michael doodikoff
  11/08/24
...
spaceporn brutally rapes his underaged adopted son
  11/08/24
The Brothers Osbourne.
Candy Ride
  11/08/24
Also “The Avett Brothers”
'''''''""''
  11/08/24
...
Candy Ride
  11/08/24
Worst band of all-time with the shittiest fans you will ever...
Alien vs Predator vs Brown vs Board of Education
  11/08/24
their early shit was pretty good. I really like "Murder...
michael doodikoff
  11/08/24
i went to one of their concerts in wilmington, nc and nearly...
Alien vs Predator vs Brown vs Board of Education
  11/08/24
The guy who yelled "Hey" in all the songs was kill...
Bailey Fletcher 1177 Elliot Ave Seattle, WA 98109
  11/08/24
...
Candy Ride
  11/08/24
Not flame spic was rushing to a pro-Israel demonstration
hock tooah
  11/08/24
Mumford and Sons kicked out their banjo player who refused t...
richard clock
  11/08/24
yeah, he first got in trouble for congratulating Andy Ngo n ...
.,..,..,.,,..,..,,,,,,,,..,...,.,.,.,
  11/08/24
Mumford's wife is a huge Hollywood shitlib Dude was force...
cowstack
  11/08/24
Related question, is there any more "emo" music st...
lsd
  11/08/24
ill follow you into the dark
Mig
  11/08/24
180 had to look it up. Dont remember any actual song titles ...
lsd
  11/08/24
catholic school as vicious as roman rule i got my knuckles...
Mig
  11/08/24
...
Mainlining The Secret Truths of My Mahchine
  11/08/24
No and it’s on classic rock stations now
'''''''""''
  11/08/24
Objection, your Honor. The witness is emo.
Candy Ride
  11/08/24
...
Nordic Nightmare
  11/08/24
you and me we've seen everything to see from bangkok to ca...
Mig
  11/08/24
I'll die when you die! *cries*
Nordic Nightmare
  11/08/24
jfc im blubbering
Mig
  11/08/24
Bright Eyes is still putting out music.
Ass Sunstein
  11/08/24
180 I think I actually saw them live with another girl, w...
lsd
  11/08/24
There was a long break though after some psycho birdbrain fa...
'''''''""''
  11/08/24
That's not what happened. He sued her for defamation and won...
AI_concubine
  11/08/24
Beach House (Holiday House) yes it still exists
Live Free or Die.
  11/08/24
tons of it. some quite good. Hard to find because it isn't a...
michael doodikoff
  11/08/24
I’m shocked a forum full of weird ethnics is MAF there...
chingchong
  11/08/24
Sup Pradeep?
Candy Ride
  11/08/24
(soylennial)
animeboi
  11/08/24
...
'''''''""''
  11/08/24
...
Mainlining The Secret Truths of My Mahchine
  11/08/24
My roommate loved Sufjan Stevens. May be the most grating ar...
MASE
  11/08/24
lmao
Mig
  11/08/24
WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE
MASE
  11/08/24
he's got some bangers man
richard clock
  11/08/24
That song about John Wayne Gacy makes my skin crawl
MASE
  11/08/24
180 song. casimir pulaski day also great.
richard clock
  11/08/24
I am, not flame, listening to to CPD right now as I type thi...
MASE
  11/08/24
180
richard clock
  11/08/24
180 song
gedood persoon
  11/08/24
Did any band at all that employed the "millennial whoop...
bloomington
  11/08/24
what is the whoop
Prisoner of Azkaban
  11/08/24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN23lFKfpck
bloomington
  11/08/24
okay but Japandroids gets a pass imo
Prisoner of Azkaban
  11/08/24
Yeah you're probably right, they definitely aren't as medioc...
bloomington
  11/08/24
idk man they are above average, listen to Continuous Thunder
gedood persoon
  11/08/24
yeah Japandroids had a couple solid albums
Prisoner of Azkaban
  11/08/24
Stomp, Clap, Hey! is the best description I heard. These...
Prisoner of Azkaban
  11/08/24
...
Nordic Nightmare
  11/08/24
That song Cleopatra is good
metal whorehouse
  11/08/24
don't hate this music, will not be explaining or apologizing
askav
  11/08/24
They're awful. Do we include Fleet Foxes? What about The D...
sph
  11/08/24
Put them all on the train. What was that one with the female...
Candy Ride
  11/08/24
Florence and the Machine
Candy Ride
  11/08/24
What about Kurt Vile, Kevin Morby, Courtney Barnett, Waxahat...
sph
  11/08/24
Discussion is just verging into Gay Indie Shit now
GO TRUMP GO
  11/14/24
I.E. https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4825046&mc...
GO TRUMP GO
  11/14/24


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 11:31 AM
Author: Dunedain cowboy (πŸΎπŸ‘£)

all this faux folk music seemed to coalesce around Obergefell

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48310532)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 11:32 AM
Author: Candy Ride

I really hated them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48310550)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 11:33 AM
Author: Nordic Nightmare



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48310554)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 11:34 AM
Author: animeboi (.)

I always think of this as 'millennial music' and it's the absolute worst shit and I hope it dies.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48310566)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 11:38 AM
Author: Nordic Nightmare



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48310589)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 11:40 AM
Author: soy jack

another nail in the coffin of shitlennials, now that we’re not the “spotlighted” generation anymore it’s becoming clear what utter shit we were/are

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48310597)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 11:41 AM
Author: Ass Sunstein



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48310604)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 11:41 AM
Author: cheddar man

they realized they couldn't make gayer music after Macklemore rapped about his uncle molesting him and it became a top hit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48310601)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 12:59 PM
Author: Dunedain cowboy (πŸΎπŸ‘£)

an insanely gay era

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48310977)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 1:42 PM
Author: Candy Ride



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311153)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 11:42 AM
Author: michael doodikoff

so many of my peers loved this music. While I don't "hate" it, I never liked it (especially Munford - just boring to me), and would just nod my head in agreement whenever people would rave about their concerts etc

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48310612)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 11:44 AM
Author: spaceporn brutally rapes his underaged adopted son (gunneratttt)



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48310630)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 12:52 PM
Author: Candy Ride

The Brothers Osbourne.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48310934)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 12:53 PM
Author: '''''''""''

Also “The Avett Brothers”

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48310944)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 1:42 PM
Author: Candy Ride



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311151)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:16 PM
Author: Alien vs Predator vs Brown vs Board of Education

Worst band of all-time with the shittiest fans you will ever meet. Awful "human" beings.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311351)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:57 PM
Author: michael doodikoff

their early shit was pretty good. I really like "Murder in the City" song. But then they got like Mumford and Sons and I stopped caring

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311606)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 5:09 PM
Author: Alien vs Predator vs Brown vs Board of Education

i went to one of their concerts in wilmington, nc and nearly got my ass kicked by two lesbians that was the roughest crowd i've ever seen at a concert

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48312248)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 1:01 PM
Author: Bailey Fletcher 1177 Elliot Ave Seattle, WA 98109

The guy who yelled "Hey" in all the songs was killed by a drunk illegal driving the wrong way on the freeway

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2017/09/06/musician-killed-drunk-wrong-way-driver/70776140007/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48310982)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 1:42 PM
Author: Candy Ride



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311150)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 1:47 PM
Author: hock tooah

Not flame spic was rushing to a pro-Israel demonstration

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311183)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 1:43 PM
Author: richard clock

Mumford and Sons kicked out their banjo player who refused to get vaxxed then became a conservative talking head. The rest of the band was playing at Kamala events before the election.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311158)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 1:50 PM
Author: .,..,..,.,,..,..,,,,,,,,..,...,.,.,.,


yeah, he first got in trouble for congratulating Andy Ngo n his book on twitter. He then issued a grovelling apology and stayed in the band for a bit but then I guess said fuck it and went full conservahero.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311207)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:32 PM
Author: cowstack

Mumford's wife is a huge Hollywood shitlib

Dude was forced to choose between his wife & kids vs his best mate

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311431)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 1:46 PM
Author: lsd

Related question, is there any more "emo" music still being made? My first gf in college was really into it.

Deathcab was really good, I couldnt get into other bands at all.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311177)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 1:47 PM
Author: Mig

ill follow you into the dark

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311186)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 1:56 PM
Author: lsd

180 had to look it up. Dont remember any actual song titles or lyrics, mostly only heard it in the background during awkward sex on top level of her dorm room bunkbed.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311244)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 1:59 PM
Author: Mig

catholic school

as vicious as roman rule

i got my knuckles bruised

by a lady in black

i held my tongue

as she told me son

fear is the heart of love

so i never went back

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311262)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:41 PM
Author: Mainlining The Secret Truths of My Mahchine (G. Hoy’s Floor 24 ‘Truth’—No Great Becumming, Only Gravity :()



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311476)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 1:50 PM
Author: '''''''""''

No and it’s on classic rock stations now

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311213)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:00 PM
Author: Candy Ride

Objection, your Honor. The witness is emo.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311272)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:01 PM
Author: Nordic Nightmare



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311273)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:02 PM
Author: Mig

you and me

we've seen everything to see

from bangkok to calgary

and the soles of your shoes

are all worn down

the time for sleep is now

there's nothing to cry about

'cause well hold each other soon

in the blackest of rooms

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311280)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:03 PM
Author: Nordic Nightmare

I'll die when you die! *cries*

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311285)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:05 PM
Author: Mig

jfc im blubbering

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311296)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:11 PM
Author: Ass Sunstein

Bright Eyes is still putting out music.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311324)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:26 PM
Author: lsd

180

I think I actually saw them live with another girl, with The Used opening for them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311397)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:36 PM
Author: '''''''""''

There was a long break though after some psycho birdbrain fan pwned him with a false rape charge and no labels or venues would touch him for like 10 years

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311454)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 6:53 PM
Author: AI_concubine

That's not what happened. He sued her for defamation and won, she admitted it was bs, and he donated all the damages $ to charity. He continued to release music and tour during it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48312563)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:27 PM
Author: Live Free or Die.

Beach House (Holiday House)

yes it still exists

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311405)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:57 PM
Author: michael doodikoff

tons of it. some quite good. Hard to find because it isn't as popular anymore

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311614)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 1:51 PM
Author: chingchong

I’m shocked a forum full of weird ethnics is MAF there’s music that isn’t niggers yelling about sneakers and raping their friends

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311217)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 1:57 PM
Author: Candy Ride

Sup Pradeep?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311251)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:01 PM
Author: animeboi (.)

(soylennial)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311274)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:15 PM
Author: '''''''""''



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311344)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:42 PM
Author: Mainlining The Secret Truths of My Mahchine (G. Hoy’s Floor 24 ‘Truth’—No Great Becumming, Only Gravity :()



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311478)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:24 PM
Author: MASE

My roommate loved Sufjan Stevens. May be the most grating artist alive

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311388)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:25 PM
Author: Mig

lmao

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311394)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:30 PM
Author: MASE

WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311417)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:26 PM
Author: richard clock

he's got some bangers man

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311402)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:30 PM
Author: MASE

That song about John Wayne Gacy makes my skin crawl

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311416)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:32 PM
Author: richard clock

180 song. casimir pulaski day also great.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311433)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:33 PM
Author: MASE

I am, not flame, listening to to CPD right now as I type this. One of the only songs from him I do like

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311442)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:34 PM
Author: richard clock

180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311450)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:55 PM
Author: gedood persoon

180 song

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311591)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:54 PM
Author: bloomington (🦬)

Did any band at all that employed the "millennial whoop" generate enduring popularity and critical acclaim? That phenomenon was broader than the stomp/clap specific stuff

I think of stuff like Japandroids with "The House That Heaven Built". If you hear that song without knowing about the phenomenon of the millennial whoop, it's pretty easy to think 'oh shit this rips'. But then you become aware of the whoop and the entire band just gets permanently demoted to 'guilty pleasure at best' status. I thought that band was pretty cool at first but now I can't think of them as any better than Kings of Leon or w/e

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311584)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:54 PM
Author: Prisoner of Azkaban

what is the whoop

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311587)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:57 PM
Author: bloomington (🦬)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN23lFKfpck

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311610)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 3:01 PM
Author: Prisoner of Azkaban

okay but Japandroids gets a pass imo

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311636)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 6:51 PM
Author: bloomington (🦬)

Yeah you're probably right, they definitely aren't as mediocre as Kings of Leon

I guess it's more a case of sausage not tasting quite the same once you know how it's made.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48312555)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:56 PM
Author: gedood persoon

idk man they are above average, listen to Continuous Thunder

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311598)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:57 PM
Author: Prisoner of Azkaban

yeah Japandroids had a couple solid albums

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311607)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:55 PM
Author: Prisoner of Azkaban

Stomp, Clap, Hey! is the best description I heard.

These bands were always gay as fuck.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311590)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:57 PM
Author: Nordic Nightmare



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311605)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 2:58 PM
Author: metal whorehouse

That song Cleopatra is good

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48311619)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 5:06 PM
Author: askav

don't hate this music, will not be explaining or apologizing

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48312241)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 5:12 PM
Author: sph

They're awful. Do we include Fleet Foxes? What about The Decemberists.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48312261)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 9:05 PM
Author: Candy Ride

Put them all on the train. What was that one with the female singer?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48313039)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 9:06 PM
Author: Candy Ride

Florence and the Machine

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48313046)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 8th, 2024 9:43 PM
Author: sph

What about Kurt Vile, Kevin Morby, Courtney Barnett, Waxahatchee

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48313193)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 14th, 2024 10:01 AM
Author: GO TRUMP GO

Discussion is just verging into Gay Indie Shit now

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48336127)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 14th, 2024 10:03 AM
Author: GO TRUMP GO

I.E. https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4825046&mc=39&forum_id=2#42404307

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630166&forum_id=2/en-en/#48336134)