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Human obsession with "consciousness" and "god" is so PRIMITIVE
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Date: December 20th, 2025 9:44 AM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk I doubt other intelligent species, especially ones more intelligent than us get stuck on all of this bullshit--from mysticism and religion to bad philosophy. Even stuff like obsession with getting a unified physics theory as a ONE TRUE ONTOLOGY is laughably simian and primitive. Guarantee you other intelligences get AI much sooner and cleaner than we did. It is more likely they would see cognition as modular from the start, not tie identity so tightly to thinking, and not fear replacement or fetishize "inner experience" as sacred. A much smarter species likely would build AI FIRST before a lot of other things we have done, then let it help with everything else--avoiding half of our deadends entirely. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49524821) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 10:07 AM Author: vivacious karate church building That just makes your "grantee" worthless on account of your stupidity. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49524912) |
Date: December 20th, 2025 9:49 AM Author: very tactful plaza Seems like you're at least partially correct because we can just look at the real evidence that we have about this. Europeans developed an obsession with these things while the other hominid species on Earth did not (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49524840) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 9:52 AM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk Western philosophy and religion tends to over theorize consciousness and god--yes. But non-western traditions tend to over ritualize them. And many of them rely more heavily on mysticism and "ineffability", which is even more primitive. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49524857) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 10:01 AM Author: very tactful plaza Monotheism and the conception of an infinite being didn't develop outside of the West and none of them have ever thought about consciousness at all
Unless you're considering "God" as "any supernatural or mystical stuff" in which case the question isn't interesting anymore imo |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 10:23 AM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk "Monotheism and the conception of an infinite being didn't develop outside of the West and none of them have ever thought about consciousness at all"
Both of these statements are false |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:27 PM Author: Cerebral rehab Yeah like do Indians just think of Vishnu as a really big elephant isn’t that powerful (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525485) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:29 PM Author: very tactful plaza Non European conceptions of God and Gods are not infinite
In general non Europeans never came up with the concept of infinity. It's extremely unnatural and strange
As for consciousness, lol |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:35 PM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk I agree that the concept of infinity is retarded metaphysics and its embarrassing we still use it in math and physics. but monotheism didn't even originate in Europe, it originated in west asia. and consciousness was definitely talked about outside Europe (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525516) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 10:03 AM Author: obsidian slippery office candlestick maker Explain qualia, chud. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49524904) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 10:25 AM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk They are system internal discriminative states that are only fully accessible from within the system that instantiates them (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49524964) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 10:37 AM Author: obsidian slippery office candlestick maker What is it like to be a bat (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525007) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 11:12 AM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk What it is like to be a bat is the bat's internal control format for regulating it's own behavior. Not any extra information but just the way information is organized when you are the bat. You can't imagine it not because it is metaphysically special but because you are operating under a completely different sensory basis, motor loops, compression schemas etc. Biggest isssue with the question is it is asking for a translation layer that reality does not provide (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525088) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 11:36 AM Author: obsidian slippery office candlestick maker Mary's room (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525153) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 12:53 PM Author: obsidian slippery office candlestick maker Defeated. Simple as (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525376) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:24 PM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk ? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525477) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:31 PM Author: obsidian slippery office candlestick maker I've effortlessly defeated you (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525498) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:37 PM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk Must have missed it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525522) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:37 PM Author: obsidian slippery office candlestick maker You are not Well Read (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525524) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:38 PM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk I'm very well read (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525528) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:40 PM Author: obsidian slippery office candlestick maker I've defeated you with Reading (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525534) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:40 PM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk It happens (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525538) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:56 PM Author: obsidian slippery office candlestick maker Pls delete this thread (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525587) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:59 PM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk ok (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525596) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 10:41 AM Author: very tactful plaza 👍 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525024) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 10:35 AM Author: Appetizing crimson trailer park We are the only species we know of that has consciousness, at least at such an amplitude. Why wouldn’t we be obsessed with it? It is the only property that differentiates us from other organisms and makes us paradoxically self-aware that we are biological automatons. What could possibly be more important than understanding why (and even that is ultimately useless but I digress haha) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525002) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 11:22 AM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk Yeah good point. That we have it to this degree and can't explain it fully makes it interesting, but it gets primitive when we decide its something special about humans or that it is something mystical or requires extra physics. But also it isn't even that much of a mystery anymore. Most of what is missing is cross-level modeling. Most of the pieces are there at this point. Aside from the hard problem, which comes more from bad question design. Once you see consciousness as an internal control interface tied to self modeling under irreversible stakes operating under a closed system that feeds back into itself, the question can really collapse into something more like "why does this architecture require an internal perspective". The question "why feels at all" only seems profound, because its the type of thing that results in ontological vertigo from brushing up against the limits of understanding. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525121) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:33 PM Author: Cerebral rehab This is rank intellectual dishonesty. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525501) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 11:23 AM Author: Arousing cowardly stag film why are humans the only species on earth that can speak? that have language? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525126) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 11:31 AM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk Requires a very specific cocktail of selection pressures. Also has a lot of negatives. Lots of species communicate and almost got there. Seems to be rare under an earth sized biological search space, but on cosmic scales likely not. Even if it takes 10K Earth reruns to get it, if you zoom out to billions of planets and cosmic timescales it probably shows up plenty of times (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525135) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:21 PM Author: Arousing cowardly stag film I am wondering why apes never made it to basic language. Also wondering why apes havent started evolving like we apparently did, there is no evidence of this, they have remained the same for millions of years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525472) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:27 PM Author: cerise dashing macaca partner because we did not evolve from apes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525486) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:33 PM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk we are apes that evolved from a common ape ancestor as other apes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525504) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:39 PM Author: cerise dashing macaca partner you really bought all that evolved from apes stuff huh? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525531) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:40 PM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk We are apes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525537) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:45 PM Author: cerise dashing macaca partner nope. we were placed here by God. or if God scares you - we were placed here by an alien species.
but no, we are most certainly, not apes. |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:50 PM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk "Ape" is not an ontological primitive. It is a derived taxonomic category. And under that taxonomy it is a fact that we are apes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525573) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:55 PM Author: cerise dashing macaca partner nah, like the Bible said, God placed us here. nothing to do with apes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525584) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:58 PM Author: Walnut immigrant "Under some faggot fraud scientist's created taxonomy, we are apes" - he said very jewishly (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525595) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:59 PM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk I'm literally Jewish (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525597) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 2:13 PM Author: Walnut immigrant Yeah I mean we already knew. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525637) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:31 PM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk non human apes were pushed out of the jungle into open savannahs with dangerous megafauna which pushed them into dependence on cooperation, delayed rewards and outcomes heavily dependent on coordination. Gesture and immediate signaling aren't sufficient in such environments. You need coordination before action.
also it isn't true that non human apes haven't evolved. they evolved in different directions than hominid species, but there have been definite morphological changes. |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:53 PM Author: cerise dashing macaca partner yup I read "Sapiens" too bro. but no, we did not evolve from apes. God put us here.
do you believe in the holocaust too? what about covid masks? |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:57 PM Author: Walnut immigrant When you learn the bio of the author of Sapiens, you realize "oh yeah this is just faggot bullshit" and move on with your life. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525589) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 2:00 PM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk Holocaust yes. Covid masks no. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525604) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 2:03 PM Author: cerise dashing macaca partner stop reading mother jones and start reading the bible. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525610) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 2:06 PM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk I'm a secular jew (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525619) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:51 PM Author: Walnut immigrant "Guarantee you other intelligences get AI much sooner and cleaner than we did" -- cool, tell me more about these "other intelligences."
I don't know what consciousness is and I don't know if there is an "infinite." If anything, we are probably not capable of knowing The Truth of reality and existence. It is already crazy to consider that everything in existence has the same basic building blocks and that somehow collections of protons, neutrons, and electrons (and their shared building blocks) underly everything from DNA to rocks to this computer I'm typing on. It seems that there is some sort of underlying source to all of the underlying building blocks. A "field" or whatever we want to call it. There is a great mystery to this that should awe us, not make us think we know everything (or can know everything.)
I agree with you in a sense that there is too much woo woo around consciousness and qualia, but I think that physical reductionism does not actually rule out something "greater" than what we can see and understand. Especially given that everything emerges from the same building blocks. Just my two cents. |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:58 PM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk I don't think we are capable of knowing a one ultimate truth or that there is one or that we can know everything either. Our models are always incomplete. I still think the metaphysical stoner vertigo people get into over consciousness is misplaced. It is complex sure. But we are closer to understanding it than most think, and it likely doesn't require any exotic physics. It can likely be modeled as well as other complex systems in the near future. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525593) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 2:02 PM Author: Walnut immigrant Yeah and I'm saying it doesn't matter. Even if it is entirely material in nature, the reality of nature seems far more mysterious and incredible than we can fathom.
I guess I'm saying that "it's just atoms and quarks moving around" actually doesn't dissuade me (or many, many people) from thinking "who cares, if anything this makes me more convinced that there is something Greater than us going on." |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 2:05 PM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk I don't think it is "just atoms and quarks". I think the models we have are way incomplete. Most of the mass-energy in the universe is in dark sectors. But I think the underlying system can be rich and complicated in a way that can't be easily modeled or reduced and still not be "Something Greater" in the mystical sense. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525614) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 2:11 PM Author: Walnut immigrant Yeah I mean talking with you is actually kind of pointless because you have made your conclusion that "there isn't anything greater" and have also clearly imbibed a lot of horseshit from "scientists" who basically just sit in rooms doing math equations all day and no actual empirical work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525632) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 1:58 PM Author: opaque contagious rigor hissy fit i like your answer on qualia subthread. but retarded to think oh man other civilizations are way better than us. ok man - that's just you projecting (or mood affiliating, if you read TC) depression. explanation for fermi paradox? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49525592) |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 6:13 PM Author: Brilliant mind-boggling market The thing that bothers me the most is the process by which I came to inhabit this body. Why was I born me, and not someone else?
Assuming 1. Many more complex mammals have some degree of consciousness. 2. My consciousness was not inherently destined to be a human, and i could have been a dolphin, dog, cow, etc.
Then what are the odds that my subjective being was (un)fortunate enough to be a human? The odds of that are insane. |
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Date: December 20th, 2025 6:15 PM Author: very tactful plaza Your odds of being born into your current body were 100% because "you" are you current body
Hope this helps |
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Date: December 21st, 2025 9:16 AM Author: Topaz offensive therapy resort until you can explain the universe or why/how any of this shit is here then please stfu (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49527220) |
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Date: December 21st, 2025 9:46 AM Author: Wonderful Hall Milk god doesnt explain any of that shit either (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5812453&forum_id=2/en-en/#49527252) |