The most prestigious law school admissions discussion board in the world.
|
 |
 
|
Do Catholics distinguish amongst Protestants?
Poast new message in this thread
Date: April 5th, 2015 8:53 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy Or are we all heretics? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627208) |
Date: April 5th, 2015 8:55 PM Author: Translucent home legal warrant most catholics don't have strong opinions on protestants, they're different christians. I was at mass the day after the Syrian massacre and they were explicitly called our christian brothers and called martyrs. that thought process actually is more from evangelical nondenominationals against catholics. the catholic church, in america, is generally concerned with right to life as a social issue and crosses the aisle to gather support. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627238) |
 |
Date: April 5th, 2015 8:57 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy Right, but this confuses me. Most of my Catholic friends view Evangelicals as low-iq idiots who are useful for pro-life purposes, but hang with the Episcomos who are ultra-lefties. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627253) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:03 PM Author: Translucent home legal warrant I'm surprised they even talk about this kind of stuff outside of church. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627306) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:04 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy UG had a club which was not denom-specific. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627323) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:07 PM Author: Translucent home legal warrant AH, that would make more sense. I think the last 5 years has forces christians to close ranks. There are still a radical splinter sect that thinks the rest are heretical nuts, but mostly considered internal family squabbling. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627345) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 12:25 AM Author: Sexy Brindle Stead Affirmative Action My BIL goes to a non-denom church and literally made an off-hand comment when the word "Catholic" was uttered to the effect of "oh yeah but they're not really christian" lol @ TTT baptist churches calling themselves non-denom |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 10:25 PM Author: galvanic jade travel guidebook Evangelicals are "in union" with the RCC.
Eastern Orthodox too, of course.
EDIT: I read "Evangelicals" as "Episcopalians." FTGE |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 12:34 AM Author: Sexy Brindle Stead Affirmative Action not only did you read it wrong, but you wrote it wrong
|
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 1:45 AM Author: well-lubricated foreskin immigrant "Most of my Catholic friends view Evangelicals as low-iq idiots"
That's just recognizing reality. |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 8:58 PM Author: Medicated wonderful stage hunting ground The Syrians aren't protestants. martyr is questionable but "Christians" is appropriate even for protestants (not Mormons and such who are not baptized as Christians) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627264) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:02 PM Author: Translucent home legal warrant Hey, I'm just reporting what Cardinal Dolan said that day. He may have been speaking off the cuff, but I will trend to take his word for it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627300) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:06 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy I'm not even Catholic but Dolan is so obviously a heretic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627339) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:08 PM Author: Translucent home legal warrant that's a bold statement. the cardinal archbishop of ny is basically the last front against godlessness in NYC. so if he's a heretic, we're doomed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627354) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:11 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy http://nypost.com/2013/03/25/biden-time-at-st-pats/
So apparently he's cool with pro-aborts taking communion and marching with gays. |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:18 PM Author: Translucent home legal warrant now, you're just being purposely provocative without substance. You know it's very rare for someone to be denied communion and that marching in the St. Patrick's Day Parade is not cosigning on gay activism. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627437) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:19 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy For a layperson, no. But a Bishop needs to be held to a higher standard. I'm a conservative Protestant, they threw out a pastor near where I live for marching in a gay rights parade.
Also KS Bishop denied communion to Sebelius if that's your excuse. Dolan is a politician wearing a mitre. |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:28 PM Author: Translucent home legal warrant now that seems like a reasonable critique. however, it seems interesting, the say the least, that you just have these criticisms of a denomination you're not a part of just handy. it erodes the notion that you're debating in good faith. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627537) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 10:02 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy GF is Catholic. We discuss this sometimes when she asks why I won't convert even though she tells me I'm more Catholic than 90% of Catholics. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627777) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 12:35 AM Author: Sexy Brindle Stead Affirmative Action lol bro stfu jesus fucking hung out with whores and you're saying a fucking cardinal can't be seen saying what's up to a fucking pro-choice pol?! ljl at your ttt brain (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629205) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:19 PM Author: Medicated wonderful stage hunting ground It is well established that pro abort politicians should not be allowed communion. The fact that denial is rare to non-existent just shows how thorougly failed the American "church" is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627453) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:25 PM Author: Fragrant Meetinghouse Well, I can definitely give a CR to that. I'd also add that the Church's approach to divorce and annulments is a massive joke. The church needs to make annulments way tougher than they are. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627508) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:27 PM Author: Medicated wonderful stage hunting ground Just call it divorce. The reality is that divorce on demand and remarriage has been 100% allowed and supported with no obstacles for decades. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627530) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:30 PM Author: Fragrant Meetinghouse Exactly, and that FUCKING SUCKS and pisses me off. Thomas More didn't get his head chopped off so the Seat of Peter could cave 400 years later. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627548) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:32 PM Author: Medicated wonderful stage hunting ground An empty seat stays strong and cushy forever. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627566) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:34 PM Author: Translucent home legal warrant it seems rather out of the spirit of the jesus mission to fully estop people from the communion with the church based on sin nature. IIRC, there is only one unpardonable sin. Now excommunication is actually for the benefit of the sinner, but that may be far afield and actually gets to RCP90's critique that the cardinal archbishopric in some cases is a politician in a mitre. say he, or someone else, denies eucharist to X politico, is it for the sinner's benefit (true essence of excommunication) or to make a political point? looks like lose/lose. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627579) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:37 PM Author: Medicated wonderful stage hunting ground Receiving communion in a state of mortal sin is a mortal sin. Only a true shitlib can turn all reason on its head by arguing that priests need to help people sin to promote the "spirit of jesus" or whatever. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627602) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:38 PM Author: Translucent home legal warrant I will pray for you, pumo.
|
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 10:06 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy TBF, you can receive communion if you're divorced. Only if you remarry are you irregular for Communion. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627802) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:54 PM Author: razzle insanely creepy station the catholic church has always rendered to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627739) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 8:56 PM Author: Impressive mildly autistic milk cumskin most serious Catholics I know have more respect for mainline protestants and orthodox christians than they do for evangelicals and charismatics (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627246) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 8:58 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy I get the Orthodox, but the mainline is so opposed to Catholicism (in doctrine, not in practice.) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627266) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:37 PM Author: Translucent home legal warrant You'd be really surprised...catholics don't talk about other denominations at all. they tend to be secure in their faith. just because one person bad mouths you, doesn't mean you have respond in kind or even care what they think. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627605) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 10:39 AM Author: Stirring Lemon Trailer Park Volcanic Crater American Catholicism has a much stronger cultural, non-theological component than other Christian denominations. Members tend to identify more with culturally similar groups. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27630671) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:00 PM Author: Translucent home legal warrant if we're going to hierarchy then I would agree. The phrase "christian training wheels" comes to mind.
I wouldn't wholesale cosign on this. I think some interesting work comes from Assemblies of God/Calvary Chapel crowd. It will never displace The Catholic Church or the other mainline denominations, but it's an excellent vehicle to bring in those out of the loop since it's actually quite logical. |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 8:56 PM Author: nofapping cyan lettuce the apostasy within the Vatican ii sect has reached such terrible proportions I bet more Protestants actually do adhere to doctrines like the necessity of water baptism. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627249) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 8:57 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy (Sedevacantist ITT) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627260) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:14 PM Author: Fragrant Meetinghouse (guy who thinks the gates of Hell didn't prevail against the Church when the papacy was a plaything of Dark Age Italian gangsters but that they totally have today) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627403) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:19 PM Author: nofapping cyan lettuce It also survived the Great Western Schism, that shit was insane.
Not to worry bro, this V2 shitsect is going to disappear in a few decades. Not enough converts, not enough confirmations, not enough priests, not enough religious, parishes shutting down left and right, and a non-Catholic gaucho peasant antipope who gives homilies where he says God doesn't exist. |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:23 PM Author: Fragrant Meetinghouse As opposed to the other branch of this schism, which would probably struggle to fill up Madison Square Garden? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627494) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:27 PM Author: nofapping cyan lettuce Refusing an antipope isn't schism. And yeah, the final days will be marked by near total apostasy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627522) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:29 PM Author: hateful kitchen mad cow disease The interesting thing is that after that schism in the 1400-1500s the Catholic Church's counter-reformation was so effective that there have been no further major schisms in the church.
Meanwhile over on the Protestant side how many sects are we up to now as a result of the constant splintering? Five thousand?
EDIT: I underestimated, google says approximately 30,000 |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:33 PM Author: razzle insanely creepy station Thats what happens when your neighbor thinks he can throw away 2000 years of scholarship and pitch his own interpretation of scripture (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627571) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:41 PM Author: Fragrant Meetinghouse I think the 30k figures is based on large part on counting every national church separately even if they're in full communion with similar churches in other countries.
Protestants certainly still love schism, but once you exclude the tiny one-parish groups you're looking at maybe a few hundred, not thousands. |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 10:03 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy You can basically group each denomination into one of 5 categories:
Lutheran/Calvinist/Armenian/Anglican/Baptist |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 10:04 PM Author: Fragrant Meetinghouse I think Anabaptists should probably be considered their own grouping as well. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627793) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 9:59 AM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy Yeah, but it's kind of weird since they're such a minority view. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27630457) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 10:15 PM Author: Trip crackhouse Tocqueville has already written about the many-churched splendor of AMERICA. Church diversity is are strength, Leave if you don't like it, bitch (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627861) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 8:59 PM Author: mint comical corner weed whacker Do you mean officially or in the opinion of the average Catholic?
Officially Anglicans/Episcopalians are somewhat viewed more favorably than the rest. But its a minor deal. All fellow Christians after VII.
|
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:02 PM Author: Fragrant Meetinghouse This is mostly just because Episcopalians still have priests and a Catholic-style liturgy, so in some extraordinary circumstances a priest has been allowed to convert and immediately become a Catholic priest (even if they're married). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627301) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:04 PM Author: mint comical corner weed whacker Also I believe there is some sort of joint Episcopal/Catholic marriage ceremony that Catholic priests can but don't often perform with an Episcopal priest for a split couple. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627321) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:06 PM Author: Medicated wonderful stage hunting ground There is definitely no such thing approved by the Catholic church. Nor surprised if American feminist priests do it though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627334) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:12 PM Author: mint comical corner weed whacker This from Portland, where I'm sure they are nutty liberal Catholics and at the bottom it seems to suggest they will do it:
http://www.archdpdx.org/tribunal/teaching.html |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:16 PM Author: Medicated wonderful stage hunting ground Well, anyone can read a scripture technically. They are clearly bending the letter of the law to pretend that some prottie "minister" can perform sacraments. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627412) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:12 PM Author: hateful kitchen mad cow disease The first time I ever went to a non-Catholic church service was a friend's Anglican wedding in my early 20s and I was struck by how similar it was to a Mass. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627380) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:16 PM Author: Elite menage blood rage The high episcopal churches are nearly indistinguishable from catholic masses. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627418) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:17 PM Author: Medicated wonderful stage hunting ground Except that their eucharist is just a ttt piece of bread (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627433) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:19 PM Author: Elite menage blood rage The episcopal churches I've been to (even the not high ones) as well as Lutheran and other prot denominations have all used communion wafers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627449) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:22 PM Author: hateful kitchen mad cow disease I think the point is that because they are TTT heretics then their ministers can't perform the sacrament of the eucharist and the wafer just stays a wafer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627485) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:34 PM Author: razzle insanely creepy station Lol at non-transubstantiation havers (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627581) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:39 PM Author: Translucent home legal warrant lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627625) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:05 PM Author: hateful kitchen mad cow disease High church Anglicans are basically Catholics who recognise the Queen instead of the Pope as head of the Church so its very easy for them to switch back.
Everyday Catholics lump all Protestants in together but nobody gets hot under the collar about it. If your average Catholic thinks about Protestants at all its that they are just misguided fellow Christians.
|
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:07 PM Author: razzle insanely creepy station Cr. Except for the southern baptists. That shit is just another world and catholics dont lump them in with methodists or prebs or lutherans. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627350) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:09 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy But the Presmos and Luthermos have conservative/liberal splits so it's tough to lump them together. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627356) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:11 PM Author: hateful kitchen mad cow disease Agree with this. The evangelical/pentecostal groups were thought of as pretty nutty and not serious Christians. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627373) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:05 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy I thought Anglican orders were invalid. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627326) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:07 PM Author: Medicated wonderful stage hunting ground They are but there have been fast track conversions and ordinations. Mostly for entire congregations of Traditional Anglican Communion. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627349) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:11 PM Author: Fragrant Meetinghouse They are; to clarify, I mean that they can be ordained relatively easily compared with, say, a non-denom evangelical pastor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastoral_Provision
Actually, in some cases whole parishes have come over en masse. |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 12:20 AM Author: know-it-all chad wrinkle Parish we were married at had a married convert Episcopalian priest. Guy was chill and made the mandatory pre marriage counseling seem more practical. Id support a change in policy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629077) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 8:59 PM Author: Medicated wonderful stage hunting ground Protestantism is heresy obviously. Most individual protestants were just raised in it and ignorant, they aren't personally guilty of being heretics. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627281) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:02 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy Hypo: Bro is baptized in a lapsed Catholic family, never attended mass or received any other sacrament as a kid, and becomes a born-again Baptist at 30. Invincibly ignorant? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627296) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:05 PM Author: Medicated wonderful stage hunting ground To the modernist western sect that occupies the former catholic church buildings, without a doubt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627324) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:06 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy What about to the Tridentine bros? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627335) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:09 PM Author: Medicated wonderful stage hunting ground no Im pretty sure it was meant for uncontacted tribes and shit that missionaries failed to reach. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627363) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:10 PM Author: nofapping cyan lettuce The guy is still going to hell but not for *that reason*. His ill will and panoply of mortally sinful behavior, for which he has not been absolved, is what will condemn him. He lacks the grace to find and see the truth. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627368) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:01 PM Author: Lavender aphrodisiac parlour private investor jews dont distinguish between any of this shit. goyim are goyim. goyim fighting w each other is like chinks and gooks fighting w/ each other. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627291) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:02 PM Author: mint comical corner weed whacker Yeah, nobody really cares about Jewish opinions on this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627303) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:03 PM Author: Translucent home legal warrant (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627307) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:03 PM Author: razzle insanely creepy station cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627312) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:09 PM Author: Alcoholic telephone juggernaut (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627360) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:13 PM Author: hateful kitchen mad cow disease cr. Jews had their chance to recognise the Messiah 2000 years ago and stuffed it up. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627391) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:14 PM Author: Lavender aphrodisiac parlour private investor the messiach doesnt come in installment plans. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627404) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 2:18 AM Author: Aqua nighttime business firm headpube (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629675) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 10:05 PM Author: razzle insanely creepy station just wanted to lol at this again. 'oh but what do the fair jews think' said no catholic ever (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627799) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 2:18 AM Author: Aqua nighttime business firm headpube (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629674) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 9:12 AM Author: Translucent home legal warrant lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27630344) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 10:16 PM Author: Trip crackhouse ty, i propose a BANHAMMER on this annoying kike (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627872) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 10:30 PM Author: galvanic jade travel guidebook (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627961) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 1:38 AM Author: cocky swashbuckling locus mexican (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629524) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 1:51 AM Author: domesticated public bath (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629569) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 2:18 AM Author: Aqua nighttime business firm headpube headshot. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629673) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 9:02 AM Author: Arousing site (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27630328) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:04 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy (Reform/Mo-odox/Conservative/Hasidic/Karaite) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627316) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:05 PM Author: Lavender aphrodisiac parlour private investor ? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627329) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:07 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy Just proving a point that Jews fight about theological differences just as much as Christians do. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627344) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:14 PM Author: Lavender aphrodisiac parlour private investor we're all jews. we're just torah scholars. we dont go to war like goyim. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627399) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:17 PM Author: Stimulating opaque national There are like 12 of you guys scattered across this planet. And 6 of you are married to non-Jews. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627430) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 2:19 AM Author: Aqua nighttime business firm headpube (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629679) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:02 PM Author: razzle insanely creepy station Yes I suppose so. I grew up in a very catholic area, catholic schooling, catholic church, catholic study, catholic everyone and everything. To the extent I was aware of non-Catholic groups growing up I just thought they were kind of funny (even now though Lol at joe schmoes interpreting scripture) but never had any strong feelings about them. Except for southern baptists and any sort of revivalist/born again church - catholics don't respect these people at all. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627299) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:09 PM Author: hateful kitchen mad cow disease Same here. Of course I knew about Protestants but it wasn't something we thought about a lot. They were wrong and misguided but they were still Christians.
The Evangelicals you'd see on TV going on about speaking in tongues and being possessed by the spirit of Baby Jesus were regarded as a joke. |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:15 PM Author: Ivory Place Of Business Pervert catholics get pretty flustered when evangelicals try to convert them, i notice. but that strategy worked well in latin america for evangelicals, so why not american america? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627406) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:23 PM Author: razzle insanely creepy station Its more of an embarrassed feeling that some dullard cannot understand that when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
|
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:32 PM Author: Ivory Place Of Business Pervert i think the traditional evangelical analysis was that this was a rebuke to people who were showy in the faith while not actually believing. the false pious. but if you believe and are seized by the spirit, then you're supposed to share your genuine faith unreservedly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627567) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:44 PM Author: razzle insanely creepy station im not sure how evangelicals justify it but its in polar opposition to the deliberate meditations of catholics (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627667) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:35 PM Author: hateful kitchen mad cow disease Flustered? My only contact with people trying to convert me was the occasional Pentecostal, Jehovah's Witness or Mormon who would come knocking on our door. They all got a polite no thanks. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627594) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:08 PM Author: unhinged lascivious mad-dog skullcap Mainline Protestants look down on Catholics, though they're obviously >>> Jews >>>>>>>>>> Muslims. We are clearly the most prestigious. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627351) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:10 PM Author: cracking white church building CR. Lol @ catholic circle jerk ITT. Go buy some indulgences! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627366) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:13 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy Just follow the Pope on twitter, bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627389) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:13 PM Author: Translucent home legal warrant you seem upset about the fact that roman catholicism is actually GROWING in america again among educated adults in RCIA unlike, well, EVERYONE else. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627392) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:14 PM Author: Alcoholic telephone juggernaut Catholicism is quickly becoming the religion of shit poor third world proles like Mexicans (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627405) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:17 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy Inaccurate. Catholicism is on the decline in South America. They're losing a ton of people to Pentecostalism. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627429) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:21 PM Author: Alcoholic telephone juggernaut (Brilliant Catholic who thinks that Mexico is in South America) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627475) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:23 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy 1) Not a Catholic
2) Comment was purposely not directed at Mexico, but would still apply as Mexico/Central America has same trend. You stated Mexicans as an example, but not as exclusively, third world proles. |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:41 PM Author: Translucent home legal warrant he's correct. Pentecostalism/evangelical christianity is growing in latin america. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627644) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:16 PM Author: cracking white church building Maybe because Catholicism is the religion of Romantic people (I.e. Spanish and other Southern Euros) while Northern Euros like the Dutch and English are Protestants (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627411) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:19 PM Author: hateful kitchen mad cow disease There are more Catholics (albeit by a tiny margin) than Protestants in Germany.
|
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:25 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy Cause Commies destroyed religion in Prussia. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627505) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:28 PM Author: Fragrant Meetinghouse This reminds me of my favorite Bismarck quote: "A Bavarian is a cross between an Austrian and a human being." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627538) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:29 PM Author: cracking white church building (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627542) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:39 PM Author: hateful kitchen mad cow disease lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627616) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 2:11 AM Author: Irradiated Mahogany Crotch Candlestick Maker devastating historical burn. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629638) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:14 PM Author: Alcoholic telephone juggernaut (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627395) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:18 PM Author: razzle insanely creepy station Wrong. The catholic church has been the primary intellectual opposition to the 20th century's materialism.
*licks finger*
*sticks it in air*
*is Mainline protestant leadership* |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:31 PM Author: cracking white church building Yeah, nothing speaks opposition to materialism like the wealthiest religious organization in the world (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627558) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:36 PM Author: razzle insanely creepy station thats not what anti-materialism means (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627599) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:45 PM Author: Medicated wonderful stage hunting ground Priceless works of art and architecture representing western history and culture should be auctioned off to buy tranny surgery for illegals! how dare anyone suggest that university administrator 220k salaries are wasteful. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627680) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:33 PM Author: Ivory Place Of Business Pervert the RCC is lining up with corporations now to flood the west with illegals/scab labor, bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627575) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:39 PM Author: razzle insanely creepy station no its not. its instructing catholics on how they should respond to the flood that already exists. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627621) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 2:12 AM Author: Irradiated Mahogany Crotch Candlestick Maker (guy who would have defended alexander VI) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629648) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 2:11 AM Author: Irradiated Mahogany Crotch Candlestick Maker (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629641) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 1:34 AM Author: marvelous honey-headed trust fund space Soooo cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629513) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:08 PM Author: Alcoholic telephone juggernaut Most Catholics are drunkards and functional illiterates (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627355) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:17 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy You're confusing Catholics and Irish. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627435) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:18 PM Author: cracking white church building What about Italians? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627441) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:21 PM Author: filthy hospital ladyboy Confusing Italians w/ Sicilians. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627469) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:22 PM Author: cracking white church building I don't think so (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627480) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:20 PM Author: Alcoholic telephone juggernaut Mexicans? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627463) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:22 PM Author: Alcoholic telephone juggernaut Filipinos? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627479) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:09 PM Author: Alcoholic telephone juggernaut (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627357) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:22 PM Author: Fragrant Meetinghouse Historically Catholicism has had heavy disdain for all Protestant sects, and there has been particular dislike for evangelical/Pentecostal stuff because, well, it's all pretty silly.
These days, for a lot of Catholic die-hards it's reversing a bit, with Catholics having more respect for evangelicals because they're allied on a bunch of sociopolitical stuff. I think short-term goals of this sort are being allowed to gloss over the very strong differences between the two. I think this may be having a bit of a bad effect, because 1. Some Catholic churches are becoming more and more like evangelical ones (Guitars! Pop songs! TV screens! Shitty homilies!), and 2. A lot of Catholics are finding evangelical stuff attractive and flat-out defecting. That would be happening no matter what, but I think it happens more because Catholicism isn't working hard enough to distinguish itself and emphasize why it is correct and evangelical Protestantism is fraud&lies.
In the long run, this could also really burn them because evangelicals are going to sell out on a bunch of different issues (almost all of them will back gay marriage in 20 years, I bet) and then the divorce will be messy. |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:25 PM Author: Medicated wonderful stage hunting ground The transformation of Catholic churches into corny pop concerts with no content happened 40+ years ago though. If anything it's slowly reversing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627503) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:27 PM Author: Fragrant Meetinghouse Yeah, upon further reflection it might have peaked in the 90's. My parish growing up had all that shitty modern music and stuff and has gone really retro in the past decade. I'm pretty sure it's the most traditional parish in my hometown, though, and there are several that are a lot less orthodox and more loopy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627526) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:42 PM Author: hateful kitchen mad cow disease Back when I was a believer (in my teens) I was a pretty serious Catholic and I thought all that sing-along stuff was just embarrassing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627652) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:44 PM Author: Fragrant Meetinghouse Why did you forsake Christ, bro? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627663) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:53 PM Author: hateful kitchen mad cow disease Broette actually. I decided I couldn't maintain a belief in God and be an otherwise rational person. Happened when I was about 16.
Until then I was a pretty ardent Catholic - Catholic grade school, Catholic high school, church camps, Catholic youth groups the whole lot. But once I lost faith in God's existence that was it. I was pretty sad about it at the time because I really enjoyed being Catholic but I just couldn't keep doing it.
However if I ever somehow decided I did believe again in God I'm almost sure I'd go back to being a Catholic. I can't imagine joining another religion.
|
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:56 PM Author: Fragrant Meetinghouse Nothing irrational about believing in God, Broette. It probably does take a leap of faith of some kind to buy into the whole kit and kaboodle for Catholicism (or any other religion), but I think you can at least get to Deism while being perfectly reasonable.
Sadly I'm not the best person for making this argument because I've always had friends who were better at it. |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 12:11 AM Author: know-it-all chad wrinkle You don't really have to buy into it all like that. I just figured I'm probably not the first shithead in 2000 years to think some of this is pretty kooky. So I take my kids. It still intalls good values. I'll be proud of the day they voice skepticism. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629015) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 2:08 AM Author: hateful kitchen mad cow disease I know. You can be a Catholic like my parents were which was to take on faith the parts that are most logically unlikely and never examine them too closely, ignore the teachings they didn't like (e.g. on contraception) and just be good cultural Catholics who go to Mass every Sunday and bring up the kids in the faith.
Perhaps because I did take it seriously and buy into the whole thing when I stopped believing my falling out was a bit more drastic and I became quite militantly atheist. I couldn't now just go through the motions just because it might benefit the kids. They can make up their own minds about religion when they are old enough. |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 8:27 AM Author: know-it-all chad wrinkle you fucked up by caring. I smoke some weed and listen to some chill songs. Kids eatva day old doughnut and learn guilt, which is a cornerstone of weastern society. doesn't it seem a little self indulgent to cast off 2000 years of cultural development over the magic stuff? A shit ton of people in your family line did the exact same thing and I'd say the results have been positive. Maybe our society has evolved past it all but that seems a little arrogant. To each his own though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27630257) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 1:58 AM Author: domesticated public bath Is this a city slicker catholicism thing? my ARE COUNTRY catholic church had none of this shit, just an organ and the crowd singing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629585) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:51 PM Author: razzle insanely creepy station bishops have been reigning this shit in for years though and its rare to find extremely ostentatious displays anymore, at least that Im aware of
|
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 9:57 PM Author: Fragrant Meetinghouse That's good, I suppose. It's hard for me to tell what the broader trends are because I only have my personal experience to go on and I've only regularly attended about 4 different parishes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627752) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 10:09 PM Author: razzle insanely creepy station i think some of the priesthood felt they could take a license with services after all the pedo stuff really accelerated in the 90s. ratzinger both helped reign them in and fought the pedos. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627818) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 10:10 PM Author: Fragrant Meetinghouse Maybe. I'm younger than most of XO so I actually don't remember the pedo scandal as well as others might, at least when it comes to the immediate effect it had. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27627827) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 11:42 PM Author: cracking white church building Yes, there are no ostentaious Catholic displays.
(guy who has never seen a cathedral) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 11:43 PM Author: Medicated wonderful stage hunting ground That is literally the opposite of what we're talking about (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27628780) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 11:45 PM Author: cracking white church building lool (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27628804) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 11:46 PM Author: razzle insanely creepy station if flame, 180 execution. if not, holy shit ur a dullard. this is the second time ITT youve completely missed the point. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27628813) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2015 11:49 PM Author: cracking white church building os·ten·ta·tious ˌästənˈtāSHəs/Submit adjective characterized by vulgar or pretentious display; designed to impress or attract notice.
LOL |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 12:00 AM Author: razzle insanely creepy station Welcome, I hope you liek it here more than on TLS (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27628934) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 12:01 AM Author: cracking white church building are you trying to say that ostentatious music is NOT OK, while ostentatious shrines are OK? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27628942) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 12:09 AM Author: razzle insanely creepy station modern music with guitars and flashing lights and a drummer in a catholic church is ostentatious because its gaudy and vulgar and pretentious.
cathedral architecture and their interiors, along with the (pre VII) Latin mass are all designed to confuse and overwhelm the senses to break you free from your materialist prison as you engage your meditations on the cross. you can call them ostentatious if you want, but theyre not in the same way as cheap tricks are, which is what we were discussing in the first place which I thought was pretty obvious. guess not. |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 12:11 AM Author: cracking white church building stupid guitars and flashing lights are meant to do the same things that these idiotic displays are meant to do. they are just different from catholic orthodoxy and therefore "ostentatious," even though it is entirely reasonable to find these traditional catholic displays "ostentatious" as well (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629017) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 12:19 AM Author: razzle insanely creepy station no. the drummers and electric guitars and giant video screens with music videos are there to get millenial shits with 2 minute attention spans in the door because its catchy and fun and oh god forbid we reflect pray and meditate for one hour we might realize we're shits. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629070) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 12:41 AM Author: cracking white church building (guy who thinks elaborate golden displays are to get scholars in the door) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629232) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 1:09 AM Author: razzle insanely creepy station not sure you get some basic distinctions between catholics and protestants, which is fine, as theyre not obvious. the elaborate golden displays and complex involved architecture are built because the church is the house of god. unlike in protestantism, where god is everywhere, catholics have a place where gods presence is: the church. its built to show devotion to god, its built to bring catholics closer to him. its built because you need a place for god and the communion of saints and the liturgy and the sacraments. as for some of the artwork inside, people were illiterate back in the day, need to get the message across somehow. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629412) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 1:14 AM Author: cracking white church building Are people not illiterate today? And need to get the message across with shit music? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629436) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 1:17 AM Author: razzle insanely creepy station ?? Literacy rates in the first world countries are north of 99% (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629456) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 1:18 AM Author: cracking white church building What about in catholic countries (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629467) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 1:25 AM Author: razzle insanely creepy station lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629489) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 6:29 AM Author: Translucent home legal warrant you were being abundantly clear. 180. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27630167) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 2:43 AM Author: Aqua nighttime business firm headpube Take the dick out of your mouth and think about what you just typed here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629775) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 12:13 AM Author: Insane multi-billionaire we all know the hardcore protestants like the amish are the ones who are the real believers (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629029) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 2:07 AM Author: hairraiser milky nowag area What about monks? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629618) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 2:37 AM Author: Insane multi-billionaire they make great beer (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629761) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 1:37 AM Author: marvelous honey-headed trust fund space Great thread (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629522) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 1:38 AM Author: razzle insanely creepy station Pax vobiscum (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629526) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 2:02 AM Author: sinister confused heaven heathen here. had no idea how much scholarship i have been missing out on my whole life. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27629598) |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 8:53 AM Author: Arousing site there's either fundamentalist nutjobs who take the bible word for word literal or waspy shitlibs who view religion as more of a social club and would change their views to whatever is fashionable at that moment.
no reason to break it down any further |
|
Date: April 6th, 2015 12:25 PM Author: Sienna liquid oxygen TCR (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2847783&forum_id=2#27631395) |