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Deploying autism to understand Roman Catholic canon law and practices
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Date: April 25th, 2025 3:23 AM Author: Drunkard Taking questions and, most particularly, welcoming comments and analysis from any of my Brothers and Sisters in Christ.
My initial observation are: (1) that it makes sense that many lawyers are Roman Catholic (and obviously jews too) because to slog through figuring this out is much more complicated than reformed theology; (2) the average Roman Catholic has limited knowledge of the Bible, but tends to know the the rules in detail, even if they do not know them as canon law or part of the catechism per se; (3) Roman Catholics, and of course it varies, tend to be more serious about their faith insofar as that they actually believe than non-evangelical Protestants (I can’t say I know enough Eastern Orthodox to compare and non-denominations are a broader range), but don’t tend to follow the rules as much as reformed; (4) you can read the relevant parts of canon law fairly quickly (for example, I skipped those on ordination and schools), but getting through the catechism is daunting, especially if you are looking at the citations with any frequency, even just the citations to the canon law and Bible; (5) I am not sure how anyone short of a super study monk could read all of the early church fathers and the various changes throughout the centuries or even to keep up with the changes to Roman Catholic practices, just going through Vatican I and II sources takes days to get a superficial understanding.
Yours in Christ |
Date: April 25th, 2025 2:38 PM Author: metaphysics is fallow My only comment is that it is the Papacy that is preventing a reconciliation of the Churches. Roman Catholicism has mostly conceded they were wrong about justification by faith alone and the Papacy is the only real sticking point with the East. The East is on good enough terms with Protestants. It's the Catholics holding this up. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5715889&forum_id=2#48880277) |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 1:31 AM Author: Drunkard I agree my Brother in Christ.
Faith begets works. There is very little difference between Roman Catholics and Reformed on this. Even the most conservative Roman Catholics will admit it’s faith alone.
I don’t have the wisdom to understand the division caused by the Filioque, but that orthodox are entitled to RC communion, but Protestants are not, tells me the catholic Church is not so catholic. I pray that the universal church becomes so again.
On papal infallibility, I spent hours on this, and as far as I can tell, post Vatican I the only ex catherdra statement that is subject to papal infallibility is the bodily assumption of the Mother of God Mary in 1950. |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 1:49 AM Author: ,..,,......,....,,,,..,.,... You have some ways to go on papal infallibility brother if you really want to understand it. Its not that simple since the charism of infallibility protects the church even when it teaches non-definitively. Donum veritatis is a good start.
The key to justification for Catholics is innee renewal/divinization and what opens the path to a rich spiritual theology.
Filioque is insanely complicated if you really want to dig in (you'll need to learn Greek). I don't really care about it much since I think EOs will end up having to become RC out of necessity |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 1:50 AM Author: gedood persoon If they were going to become RC out of necessity it would have happened in the 12th-15th centuries ljl @ this happening now, the churches will never reunite after Vatican I (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5715889&forum_id=2#48882021) |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 1:51 AM Author: ,..,,......,....,,,,..,.,... Ljl are u an orthobro? Did they have a demographic crisis in those centuries? That's what I'm referring to (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5715889&forum_id=2#48882025) |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 1:53 AM Author: gedood persoon considering conversion to orthodoxy after having read scholarship on church history, papacy, etc.
In those centuries they were under existential threat from Islamic hordes and frequently flirted with reunification even giving up key concessions to get help from Rome, but it never happened. |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 1:56 AM Author: ,..,,......,....,,,,..,.,... Fair enough but i think being threatened by an external enemy tends to strength a community's religious and ethnic bonds as part of a defense mechanism. There's no Muslims invading Orthodox countries today, it's just apathy causing the collapse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5715889&forum_id=2#48882041) |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 2:04 AM Author: Drunkard Depending on which orthodox …. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5715889&forum_id=2#48882058) |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 1:46 AM Author: gedood persoon cr
Drunkard you should read this 180 book on the papacy, great work on church history here: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-papacy-and-the-orthodox-9780190245252?cc=us&lang=en& |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 1:47 AM Author: Drunkard $145? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5715889&forum_id=2#48882012) |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 1:48 AM Author: gedood persoon ljl get it from the library my man (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5715889&forum_id=2#48882016) |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 1:49 AM Author: Drunkard They just spent $20m on a local library, I doubt they have it …. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5715889&forum_id=2#48882019) |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 1:50 AM Author: gedood persoon i had to get it from interlibrary loan, worth it and 180 scholarship it sounds like you would be really interested in. I promise it's a 180 read (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5715889&forum_id=2#48882023) |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 2:03 AM Author: Drunkard Thank (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5715889&forum_id=2#48882052) |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 2:04 AM Author: gedood persoon i will be curious to hear your thoughts (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5715889&forum_id=2#48882056) |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 2:05 AM Author: Drunkard You will have to give me a while, but yes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5715889&forum_id=2#48882059) |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 2:05 AM Author: gedood persoon 😎 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5715889&forum_id=2#48882061) |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 1:38 AM Author: ,..,,......,....,,,,..,.,... I think you're confusing canon law with catholic doctrine/dogma, the latter of which is probably what you're really interested in. Canon law itself isn't really doctrine and most Catholics don't know or care about canon law
The church has never believed in "faith and works" the way it's understood in popular discourse. Of course there's a difference between Catholics and protestants on soteriology but its a different issue
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Date: April 26th, 2025 1:40 AM Author: Drunkard Yes, see Supra. I am about 70% through the catechism of the [roman] catholic church. I call it practices because dogma technically is more limited than all the rules. Doctrine works too.
I will say roman catholics have good apologetics. Compared to reformed anyway. |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 1:43 AM Author: ,..,,......,....,,,,..,.,... The compendium is also really good since the catechism is kind of long winded. Reading the actual magisterial documents themselves is just painful (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5715889&forum_id=2#48882004) |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 1:47 AM Author: Drunkard Being a Christian is painful.
Edit: wait, there is a compendium? I have been slogging through 700 pages when there is a compendium? |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 1:50 AM Author: ,..,,......,....,,,,..,.,... https://www.vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html
Best thing benedict ever did |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 2:04 AM Author: Drunkard It still makes the Westminster larger catechism look short ….
I am too deep now, but I will read the compendium too. Thank you. |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 2:08 AM Author: Drunkard How do you square Matt. 7:16-20? By that measure the roman catholics have it.
I am sure it is hubris and doubt, but this one haunts me. |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 2:26 AM Author: gedood persoon Not sure what you are getting at with this verse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5715889&forum_id=2#48882083) |
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Date: April 26th, 2025 6:05 AM Author: Drunkard A common defense of the RC Church as the “one true church” is that it is the largest and the verses above are cited. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5715889&forum_id=2#48882242) |