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Massachusetts school has banned ‘The Odyssey.’

Massachusetts school has banned ‘The Odyssey.’ ...
french laughsome nowag
  12/28/20
"... he’d “rather die” than teach &ld...
Startling bearded business firm
  12/28/20
Yeah, pretty much. I have a feeling that part of what’...
Lime Infuriating Tank
  12/28/20
...
Violent Plum Boiling Water Set
  12/28/20
He's probably only watched the Demi Moore movie version.
Pontificating racy brunch telephone
  12/28/20
"I take full responsibility for my unprovoked anger tow...
big translucent field
  12/28/20
can you imagine sending a child to one of these ppl? that is...
Startling bearded business firm
  12/28/20
...
slimy wagecucks pit
  12/28/20
...
Sable internet-worthy regret
  12/28/20
lmao at libs aping maoist china
french laughsome nowag
  12/28/20
...
awkward multi-colored box office
  12/28/20
lmao
Ebony Beady-eyed Casino
  12/28/20
...
Sable internet-worthy regret
  12/28/20
...
irradiated abode kitty
  12/28/20
jfc
Erotic whorehouse puppy
  12/28/20
we all know this is because the student body is too low IQ t...
Razzle toaster
  12/28/20
"dat too many dactylic hexameter!"
slimy wagecucks pit
  12/28/20
And most of the teachers.
Bright mind-boggling mental disorder
  12/29/20
...
Razzle toaster
  12/29/20
Critical theory
Marvelous Spot Black Woman
  12/28/20
“Be like Odysseus and embrace the long haul to liberat...
irradiated abode kitty
  12/28/20
...
Tan nursing home
  12/28/20
rate her https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrshlevine/
french laughsome nowag
  12/28/20
1.5/10
slimy wagecucks pit
  12/28/20
Tl dr Did they “ban” it or just remove it off...
Adventurous State
  12/28/20
Same thing. They make sure almost no students will read it
Frisky violet orchestra pit
  12/28/20
Did "they" make this distinction in the '90s when ...
Electric halford gaming laptop
  12/29/20
we should throw out shakespeare too. we should only be readi...
zombie-like judgmental jew
  12/28/20
1. hunger games 2. twilight 3. michelle obama biography
french laughsome nowag
  12/28/20
...
slimy wagecucks pit
  12/28/20
...
zombie-like judgmental jew
  12/28/20
No, Twilight’s tacit endorsement of inter-“spec...
insanely creepy twisted theatre
  12/28/20
...
Startling bearded business firm
  01/02/21
...
slimy wagecucks pit
  12/28/20
young-adult novelists cancel Shakespeare
soul-stirring poppy associate goal in life
  12/28/20
Well is Padma says so
rambunctious histrionic juggernaut doctorate
  12/28/20
WTF are these people even doing here, it's insane that we al...
big translucent field
  12/28/20
...
rambunctious histrionic juggernaut doctorate
  12/29/20
"In 2020, we can no longer endorse a minivan that doesn...
red fragrant blood rage lay
  12/28/20
In other words, (((GC))) only wants kids reading books still...
Walnut Effete House
  12/28/20
How do these small mobs have so much power? There are enough...
Frisky violet orchestra pit
  12/28/20
...
Vigorous idea he suggested
  12/28/20
You can’t respond symmetrically, they shriek racism or...
stimulating orchid hunting ground
  12/28/20
...
Vigorous idea he suggested
  12/29/20
This story is illustrative: "Jessica Cluess, an auth...
indecent very tactful wrinkle faggotry
  12/28/20
The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Mino...
Bright mind-boggling mental disorder
  12/29/20
The 25% Revolution—How Big Does a Minority Have to B...
Bright mind-boggling mental disorder
  12/29/20
It's fine, libs only burn the bad books
Pontificating racy brunch telephone
  12/28/20
...
french laughsome nowag
  12/28/20
...
crawly jewess
  12/29/20
...
awkward multi-colored box office
  12/29/20
Thomas W. Carroll @BostonCathSupt Any public schools that ...
Adulterous background story stock car
  12/29/20
...
Vigorous idea he suggested
  12/29/20
Moniker confirmed
awkward multi-colored box office
  12/29/20
lmao
Startling bearded business firm
  12/29/20
And.... she got dropped by her agent https://www.dailymai...
big translucent field
  01/02/21
Disgusting
awkward multi-colored box office
  01/02/21
Awful. She never should have apologized.
Razzmatazz Property Masturbator
  01/02/21
...
Salmon fear-inspiring volcanic crater area
  01/02/21
becoming increasingly clear why new totalitarian regimes mur...
irradiated abode kitty
  01/02/21
...
Adventurous State
  01/02/21
Someone with Twitter needs to ask them about banning 1984.
stirring cruel-hearted station dragon
  01/02/21


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 9:58 AM
Author: french laughsome nowag

Massachusetts school has banned ‘The Odyssey.’

By Meghan Cox Gurdon

Updated Dec. 27, 2020 4:01 pm ET

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Sixth-grade students work on a reading comprehension lesson in Wesley Chapel, Fla., Nov. 20.

PHOTO: DOUGLAS R. CLIFFORD/ZUMA PRESS

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A sustained effort is under way to deny children access to literature. Under the slogan #DisruptTexts, critical-theory ideologues, schoolteachers and Twitter agitators are purging and propagandizing against classic texts—everything from Homer to F. Scott Fitzgerald to Dr. Seuss.

Their ethos holds that children shouldn’t have to read stories written in anything other than the present-day vernacular—especially those “in which racism, sexism, ableism, anti-Semitism, and other forms of hate are the norm,” as young-adult novelist Padma Venkatraman writes in School Library Journal. No author is valuable enough to spare, Ms. Venkatraman instructs: “Absolving Shakespeare of responsibility by mentioning that he lived at a time when hate-ridden sentiments prevailed, risks sending a subliminal message that academic excellence outweighs hateful rhetoric.”

The subtle complexities of literature are being reduced to the crude clanking of “intersectional” power struggles. Thus Seattle English teacher Evin Shinn tweeted in 2018 that he’d “rather die” than teach “The Scarlet Letter,” unless Nathaniel Hawthorne’s novel is used to “fight against misogyny and slut-shaming.”

Outsiders got a glimpse of the intensity of the #DisruptTexts campaign recently when self-described “antiracist teacher” Lorena Germán complained that many classics were written more than 70 years ago: “Think of US society before then & the values that shaped this nation afterwards. THAT is what is in those books.”

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Jessica Cluess, an author of young-adult fiction, shot back: “If you think Hawthorne was on the side of the judgmental Puritans . . . then you are an absolute idiot and should not have the title of educator in your twitter bio.”

An online horde descended, accused Ms. Cluess of racism and “violence,” and demanded that Penguin Random House cancel her contract. The publisher hasn’t complied, perhaps because Ms. Cluess tweeted a ritual self-denunciation: “I take full responsibility for my unprovoked anger toward Lorena Germán. . . . I am committed to learning more about Ms. Germán’s important work with #DisruptTexts. . . . I will strive to do better.” That didn’t stop Ms. Cluess’s literary agent, Brooks Sherman, from denouncing her “racist and unacceptable” opinions and terminating their professional relationship.

The demands for censorship appear to be getting results. “Be like Odysseus and embrace the long haul to liberation (and then take the Odyssey out of your curriculum because it’s trash),” tweeted Shea Martin in June. “Hahaha,” replied Heather Levine, an English teacher at Lawrence (Mass.) High School. “Very proud to say we got the Odyssey removed from the curriculum this year!” When I contacted Ms. Levine to confirm this, she replied that she found the inquiry “invasive.” The English Department chairman of Lawrence Public Schools, Richard Gorham, didn’t respond to emails.

“It’s a tragedy that this anti-intellectual movement of canceling the classics is gaining traction among educators and the mainstream publishing industry,” says science-fiction writer Jon Del Arroz, one of the rare industry voices to defend Ms. Cluess. “Erasing the history of great works only limits the ability of children to become literate.”

He’s right. If there is harm in classic literature, it comes from not teaching it. Students excused from reading foundational texts may imagine themselves lucky to get away with YA novels instead—that’s what the #DisruptTexts people want—but compared with their better-educated peers they will suffer a poverty of language and cultural reference. Worse, they won’t even know it.

Mrs. Gurdon writes the Journal’s Children’s Books column.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41629561)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 10:00 AM
Author: Startling bearded business firm

"... he’d “rather die” than teach “The Scarlet Letter,” unless Nathaniel Hawthorne’s novel is used to “fight against misogyny and slut-shaming.”"

tbf It sounds like these teachers are actually too stupid to teach any of these books

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41629570)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:55 PM
Author: Lime Infuriating Tank

Yeah, pretty much. I have a feeling that part of what’s going on here is that the Odyssey and other books are too hard for them to teach so they’re tossing them out under the guise of social justice.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630700)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 1:32 PM
Author: Violent Plum Boiling Water Set



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630905)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 3:17 PM
Author: Pontificating racy brunch telephone

He's probably only watched the Demi Moore movie version.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41631617)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 10:01 AM
Author: big translucent field

"I take full responsibility for my unprovoked anger toward Lorena Germán. . . . I am committed to learning more about Ms. Germán’s important work with #DisruptTexts. . . . I will strive to do better."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41629573)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 10:03 AM
Author: Startling bearded business firm

can you imagine sending a child to one of these ppl? that is abuse

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41629576)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:31 PM
Author: slimy wagecucks pit



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630516)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:39 PM
Author: Sable internet-worthy regret



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630602)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:28 PM
Author: french laughsome nowag

lmao at libs aping maoist china

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630488)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 1:13 PM
Author: awkward multi-colored box office



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630796)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:32 PM
Author: Ebony Beady-eyed Casino

lmao



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630526)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:39 PM
Author: Sable internet-worthy regret



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630601)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:54 PM
Author: irradiated abode kitty



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630693)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 10:07 AM
Author: Erotic whorehouse puppy

jfc

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41629588)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:29 PM
Author: Razzle toaster

we all know this is because the student body is too low IQ to read/comprehend classics.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630499)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:35 PM
Author: slimy wagecucks pit

"dat too many dactylic hexameter!"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630555)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 29th, 2020 11:38 AM
Author: Bright mind-boggling mental disorder

And most of the teachers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41636934)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 29th, 2020 8:03 PM
Author: Razzle toaster



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41640450)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:30 PM
Author: Marvelous Spot Black Woman

Critical theory

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630507)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:32 PM
Author: irradiated abode kitty

“Be like Odysseus and embrace the long haul to liberation (and then take the Odyssey out of your curriculum because it’s trash),” tweeted Shea Martin in June. “Hahaha,” replied Heather Levine, an English teacher

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630528)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:34 PM
Author: Tan nursing home



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630553)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:36 PM
Author: french laughsome nowag

rate her

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrshlevine/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630563)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:38 PM
Author: slimy wagecucks pit

1.5/10

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630582)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:36 PM
Author: Adventurous State

Tl dr

Did they “ban” it or just remove it off the reading list for one specific class

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630565)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 1:53 PM
Author: Frisky violet orchestra pit

Same thing. They make sure almost no students will read it

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41631087)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 29th, 2020 11:47 AM
Author: Electric halford gaming laptop

Did "they" make this distinction in the '90s when pro-American teachers / school districts made the news for removing books with graphic rape, pedophilia, homosexulaity, and drug use from reading lists?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41636980)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:37 PM
Author: zombie-like judgmental jew

we should throw out shakespeare too. we should only be reading the clicking noises of african trannys.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630572)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:38 PM
Author: french laughsome nowag

1. hunger games

2. twilight

3. michelle obama biography

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630581)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:38 PM
Author: slimy wagecucks pit



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630585)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:39 PM
Author: zombie-like judgmental jew



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630593)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 1:09 PM
Author: insanely creepy twisted theatre

No, Twilight’s tacit endorsement of inter-“species” rivalry and competition is troublesome.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630773)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 2nd, 2021 11:26 AM
Author: Startling bearded business firm



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41661589)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:38 PM
Author: slimy wagecucks pit



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630588)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:37 PM
Author: soul-stirring poppy associate goal in life

young-adult novelists cancel Shakespeare

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630576)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 12:41 PM
Author: rambunctious histrionic juggernaut doctorate

Well is Padma says so

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630613)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 1:27 PM
Author: big translucent field

WTF are these people even doing here, it's insane that we allow any immigration at all really. A sick joke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._V._Padma

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41630865)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 29th, 2020 1:57 PM
Author: rambunctious histrionic juggernaut doctorate



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41637980)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 1:50 PM
Author: red fragrant blood rage lay

"In 2020, we can no longer endorse a minivan that doesn't even have an awd option."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41631067)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 1:53 PM
Author: Walnut Effete House

In other words, (((GC))) only wants kids reading books still protected by copyright.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41631086)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 1:54 PM
Author: Frisky violet orchestra pit

How do these small mobs have so much power? There are enough people against it that it should be really easy to resist, but these small groups somehow manage to hit all the right pressure points and get their way

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41631100)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 2:41 PM
Author: Vigorous idea he suggested



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41631411)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 3:02 PM
Author: stimulating orchid hunting ground

You can’t respond symmetrically, they shriek racism or other trendy -ism and 99% of people back down.

The answer is fight club-style anonymous mass organization, it’s effective enough that the left has focused on social media crackdowns on anonymous leaderless movements like Qanon

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41631535)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 29th, 2020 12:30 AM
Author: Vigorous idea he suggested



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41635309)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 2:50 PM
Author: indecent very tactful wrinkle faggotry

This story is illustrative:

"Jessica Cluess, an author of young-adult fiction, shot back: “If you think Hawthorne was on the side of the judgmental Puritans . . . then you are an absolute idiot and should not have the title of educator in your twitter bio.”

An online horde descended, accused Ms. Cluess of racism and “violence,” and demanded that Penguin Random House cancel her contract. The publisher hasn’t complied, perhaps because Ms. Cluess tweeted a ritual self-denunciation: “I take full responsibility for my unprovoked anger toward Lorena Germán. . . . I am committed to learning more about Ms. Germán’s important work with #DisruptTexts. . . . I will strive to do better.” That didn’t stop Ms. Cluess’s literary agent, Brooks Sherman, from denouncing her “racist and unacceptable” opinions and terminating their professional relationship."

Random House fronted some cash for this woman's next novel and it wants what it paid for. By contrast, Ms. Cluess clearly doesn't generate enough revenue for her "literary agent" to be worth any amount of hassle. If her books were printing stacks that agent would have had no problem with her "unacceptable" opinions.

In terms of the school stuff, they are probably private schools that have given one or two people significant and arbitrary power to control what books get assigned, so "power" in this situation is just the ability to persuade one person.

This isn't new. Huck Finn has been "banned" in various places for decades for using the word nigger.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41631465)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 29th, 2020 11:39 AM
Author: Bright mind-boggling mental disorder

The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority

https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41636945)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 29th, 2020 12:16 PM
Author: Bright mind-boggling mental disorder

The 25% Revolution—How Big Does a Minority Have to Be to Reshape Society?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-25-revolution-how-big-does-a-minority-have-to-be-to-reshape-society/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41637206)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 3:14 PM
Author: Pontificating racy brunch telephone

It's fine, libs only burn the bad books

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41631594)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2020 10:28 PM
Author: french laughsome nowag



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41634526)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 29th, 2020 12:32 AM
Author: crawly jewess



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41635327)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 29th, 2020 11:25 AM
Author: awkward multi-colored box office



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41636836)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 29th, 2020 2:18 PM
Author: Adulterous background story stock car

Thomas W. Carroll

@BostonCathSupt

Any public schools that have decided to ban the classics may donate their books to the Catholic schools of the Boston Archdiocese. Let our students benefit from your censorship. Please contact me to arrange the donations

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41638121)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 29th, 2020 2:20 PM
Author: Vigorous idea he suggested



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41638134)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 29th, 2020 7:54 PM
Author: awkward multi-colored box office

Moniker confirmed

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41640382)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 29th, 2020 7:54 PM
Author: Startling bearded business firm

lmao

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41640389)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 2nd, 2021 11:25 AM
Author: big translucent field

And.... she got dropped by her agent

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9105217/Author-canceled-DROPPED-agent-defending-writer-Scarlet-Letter.html

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41661586)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 2nd, 2021 11:27 AM
Author: awkward multi-colored box office

Disgusting

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41661591)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 2nd, 2021 11:27 AM
Author: Razzmatazz Property Masturbator

Awful. She never should have apologized.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41661593)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 2nd, 2021 1:24 PM
Author: Salmon fear-inspiring volcanic crater area



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41662018)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 2nd, 2021 11:50 AM
Author: irradiated abode kitty

becoming increasingly clear why new totalitarian regimes murder the academic class of the old regime

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41661674)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 2nd, 2021 11:54 AM
Author: Adventurous State



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41661694)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 2nd, 2021 12:39 PM
Author: stirring cruel-hearted station dragon

Someone with Twitter needs to ask them about banning 1984.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4722375&forum_id=2#41661841)