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Transferring into Consulting after some years in BIGLAW?
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Date: September 4th, 2010 4:32 PM Author: Adventurous lay halford How difficult without a consulting sort of background? Do people do this? tyia. Just curious. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15965168) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 4:34 PM Author: filthy house-broken space Why would you do this? Consulting is pretty TTT, and you have to travel all the time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15965184) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 4:55 PM Author: Adventurous lay halford It seems like genuinely interesting work and that you get to do pretty cool stuff, like restructuring the economy of Haiti. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15965349) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 5:03 PM Author: Supple Sepia Library you're either flaming or you need to do more research, because this couldn't be further from the truth. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15965412) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 5:06 PM Author: Adventurous lay halford IDK, I went to a McKinsey presentation, and the work they did seemed pretty cool, that's all. But, yeah, I've never done consulting. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15965444) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:07 PM Author: sooty at-the-ready jewess church building you will get in everywhere you apply (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15966880) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 12:03 AM Author: Bat-shit-crazy claret gas station coffee pot This is equivalent to people who want to law school to practice International Law in Paris, hunting down war criminals, saving the whales, while sipping wine at trendy Parisian cafes with heads of state and other important people. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15967581) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 12:05 AM Author: Adventurous lay halford I guess I am easily duped. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15967594) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 12:06 AM Author: Bat-shit-crazy claret gas station coffee pot I guess so, I guess so... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15967601) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 9:36 AM Author: glassy self-centered senate sex offender this is pretty much what i do, except instead of saving whales i help corrupt oligarchs consolidate power and line their pockets. yny. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15968885) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 9:50 AM Author: Hilarious navy trust fund kitty cat you must be in the biggest of laws. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15968948) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:30 PM Author: Hilarious navy trust fund kitty cat You will spend much more time restructuring the headcount of a f500s milwaukee factory. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15967039) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 12:25 AM Author: Razzmatazz poppy stain this. "consulting" just means fire the "bottom 10%" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15967698) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 9:35 AM Author: Vermilion messiness no. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15968878) |
Date: September 4th, 2010 4:44 PM Author: Razzmatazz poppy stain consulting = biglaw hours with less pay, hth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15965270) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 4:55 PM Author: Adventurous lay halford But, more involved work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15965351) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 5:02 PM Author: puce alcoholic market gaming laptop how could you work 70 hrs/wk for $150k knowing this?
"The licenses for medical pot use expire in six months, so the prescribing physicians have a financial incentive to prescribe often and widely. One doctor I know of makes up to $1,000 to $1,500 an hour writing medical marijuana approvals, which translates into an income of $2.4 million a year based on a five-day workweek."
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:37 PM Author: Smoky big office MBB starts at 125k + 60k bonus for their associate (post-MBA) hires (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15967093) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 11:08 PM Author: Adventurous lay halford What's an MBB? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15967232) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 12:01 AM Author: spectacular home dragon (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15967557) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 12:06 AM Author: Orchid principal's office police squad top- yes. Only worthwhile- far from correct. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15967599) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 12:16 AM Author: Bat-shit-crazy claret gas station coffee pot What would you say the cutoff is for being worthwhile? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15967653) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 12:21 AM Author: Orchid principal's office police squad Anything in the vault rankings is "worth it," in the sense that you will get good experience and a solid shot at a t10 MBA.
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Date: September 5th, 2010 12:01 AM Author: Bat-shit-crazy claret gas station coffee pot But would you always start as an associate with just a JD? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15967564) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 12:20 AM Author: Supple Sepia Library i believe so, yes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15967677) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 12:15 AM Author: bipolar legend hall this isn't accurate. a top performing associate might get that, but for most people they wouldn't be getting any where near 60k, maybe like 15k. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15967644) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 9:25 AM Author: Vermilion messiness $125k base up to $40k first year performance bonus $20k signing bonus $4k moving bonus ANOTHER 10% bonus based on total comp that is paid into a retirement account Pays for bar exam AND prep class
Can make over $200k first year.
Also, your exit options even by year 2 are excellent and involve jobs with fewer hours than big law. |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 9:41 AM Author: peach boltzmann What are these excellent exit options? BigLaw, when the economy is good, can exit into banking fairly easily. What does consulting exit into? Mostly industry. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15968911) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 9:44 AM Author: Vermilion messiness executive track at fortune 500. seems like a better path to me. also, I really think the legal market is going to be fucked for quite a long time. too many unemployeds and too many new lawyers being produced every year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15968926) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 9:47 AM Author: peach boltzmann The top executives at a F500 company work insane hours to get there. Also, you need to partner at MBB before you have a real shot. Partners at MBB make a crap salary.
The world sucks. You should try sales. |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 9:52 AM Author: Exciting nursing home I think partners at MBB do decently. Once you get to the upper levels of consulting, the pay gets better than biglaw, but the first few years biglaw is better. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15968952) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 9:52 AM Author: Laughsome disturbing becky Start own business instead. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15968954) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 10:08 AM Author: Vermilion messiness heh. not at the biglaw firm I summered at. first year pay was 160k plus a small bonus. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15969006) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 10:10 AM Author: Exciting nursing home I doubt first year consultants are MBB will hitting 160k + small bonus. Especially if you strip out whatever one time signing bonus or relocation bonus which won't be there (or incorporated into your salary) your second year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15969011) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 10:16 AM Author: Hilarious navy trust fund kitty cat not to mention that 1st year MBB consultants, from an age point of view, are more comparable to 3rd years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15969027) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 10:21 AM Author: Vermilion messiness again:
$125k base
up to $40k first year performance bonus
$20k signing bonus
$4k moving bonus
ANOTHER 10% bonus based on total comp that is paid into a retirement account ~
Pays for bar exam AND prep class
Let's assume your performance bonus is only $20k in year one (out of $40k potential)
125k+20K(performance)+20k (signing)+4k +14.5k (retirement bonus 10% of base+performance bonus)= $183.5k
that is probably more than most 1st year biglaw associates make in this economy as their bonuses will be low or non-existent.
Year 2 you DO strip out the signing bonus, but you get a base bump which feeds into the large performance bonus and retirement bonus. Probably make a bit less in year 2 but not much less. |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 10:25 AM Author: Exciting nursing home Do you know what the figures are for consultants the following year? Do they end up making less all in since they no longer have the sign on and relocation (or does the salary and bonus bump up come out similarly)?
Also, is the 14.5k is subject to vesting, etc. Am just curious - I retract my point earlier since your numbers are better than first year biglaw. |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 10:31 AM Author: Vermilion messiness If you leave the firm at ANY time you get ALL of what is in the retirement account (I made sure of that).
I do not know what year 2 compensation is like. It is very difficult to find numbers listed anywhere.
Biglaw second years make what? Like $180k with bonus or something ITE? I bet the MBB associate makes a bit less than that. Figure his base goes up by, say, $10k? Then...
135k+ 25k (figure performance bonus goes up a bit with higher base)+16k (retirement bonus) =$176k.
Not too different? I concede this is conjecture... |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 10:34 AM Author: Exciting nursing home Yeah biglaw second year makes 170k base and incremental bonus from first year.
Agreed, not too different. Also recently banking has been closer (200-250k all in) to these figures than previously. |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 9:53 AM Author: Vermilion messiness Well, I found a bunch of job listing with various recruiting firms looking for MBB associates with 2-6 years to place into director and VP level positions.
Engagement manager or higher.
As for the hours: they end up being less than either biglaw or consulting. However, I concede that when your baseline is 80 hours a week, moving to 65 is an improvement while still being quite a few.
There is no question that as an MBB associate you end up being in pretty high demand when you decide to leave.
Also, sales is not a good place to be right now. Having done sales myself in a past life and knowing a bunch of current sales people: rough market out there. |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 9:55 AM Author: Exciting nursing home How much do those director and VP level positions pay?
Senior associates in biglaw don't necessarily put in more than 65 hours a week. |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 9:56 AM Author: Vermilion messiness in fairness, I don't know.
On the other hand, it looks like associates at MBB make as much as (or a bit more) than their big law counterparts and they tend to move on to greener pastures in years 2 and 3... so I figure the exit options have good pay.
But again, I don't actually know. |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 10:00 AM Author: Exciting nursing home 50% attrition (and they will go the forced route) is built into their model in years 2 and 3, so I would really want to figure out how green those pastures are. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15968981) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 10:04 AM Author: Vermilion messiness Very true. Up or out. I spent quite a lot of time trying to figure out what those pastures were and was unable to come up with salarly ranges.
The best I came up with was this article: http://managementconsulted.com/2009/02/26/management-consulting-exit-opportunities/
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Date: September 5th, 2010 10:09 AM Author: Exciting nursing home Not sure how much I would want to bank on "Entrepeneurship" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15969008) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 10:10 AM Author: Laughsome disturbing becky Why not? They probably have a very high success rate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15969013) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 10:12 AM Author: Exciting nursing home I think a lot of laid off biglaw attorneys would mark "entrepeneurship" as their exit option. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15969014) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 10:18 AM Author: Laughsome disturbing becky Ha (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15969035) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 9:54 AM Author: Hilarious navy trust fund kitty cat all-in comp is similar to biglaw partnership. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15968962) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 9:57 AM Author: Vermilion messiness I thought it was something like 2 million a year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15968969) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 10:00 AM Author: Hilarious navy trust fund kitty cat around that is what I have heard. PPP at the V100 is like 1.4 million or something, so it seemed like a good board-related comparison. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15968985) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 10:07 AM Author: peach boltzmann V100 is not comparable to MBB. MBB is comparable to V10 firms. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15968999) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 10:10 AM Author: Hilarious navy trust fund kitty cat I was only comparing partnership draw, not anything else.
for general selectivity and exit options within their field, youre correct to say MBB is much more like a V10. |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 9:52 AM Author: Laughsome disturbing becky Start your own business instead. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15968953) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 9:53 AM Author: Vermilion messiness yeah, that is the best way to go. can't bank on it necessarily. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15968959) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 9:56 AM Author: Laughsome disturbing becky If you have what it takes to land MBB and eventually be offered a F500 executive level track position, you probably have what it takes to start a successful business. Obviously, there's more risk, but the success rate is probably more like 80% (for people with an MBB type background) compared to the 10% for the general population. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15968968) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 9:59 AM Author: Vermilion messiness Heh. Well, I will let you know in 3 years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15968977) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 10:41 AM Author: Adventurous lay halford What is the difference in work? What do consultants actually do? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15969166) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 11:00 AM Author: Curious school cafeteria It's possible. I made the move to consulting from law and never looked back. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15969235) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 11:00 AM Author: Adventurous lay halford How do you like it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15969237) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 11:10 AM Author: Curious school cafeteria It's better than law imo. The comments on XO about working shit cases in the middle of nowhere are fueled by jealousy, mostly. My experience so far has been good because of the high quality of work and the impact of the work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15969279) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 11:37 AM Author: Vermilion messiness I encountered this sour grapes problem at my T6 as well.
Every year the entire business law review interviews for McKinsey (business leadership! earn REAL money down the road! law sucks! McKinsey is uber! Consulting is fun! Etc...)
Every year they ALL get rejected... which, since none of them have any actual business/leadership experience is hardly surprising.
Then it becomes "well I COULD have gotten an offer but I decided law was better" or "I went to law school to use the degree" or "I just did the interview for fun" or "I know I'll make more money as a lawyer"
Kind of hilarious. One of these clowns actually asked me why I did not ask him for interview prep help before my MBB interviews. Hilarious. |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 11:43 AM Author: aphrodisiac set skinny woman sounds like ppl who think they are entitled to something for nothing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15969379) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 11:14 AM Author: Shaky angry parlor Just about to do this. Got shit outta biglaw last year. Now going into IT consulting (the not prestigious kind). Will let you know how it works out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414485&forum_id=2#15969296) |