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yes/no was Truman/USA justified in dropping the atomic bomb on Japs?
| insanely creepy grizzly site persian | 06/27/18 |
| vermilion know-it-all double fault | 06/27/18 |
| insanely creepy grizzly site persian | 06/27/18 |
| Maroon razzle private investor | 06/27/18 |
| Heady Hideous Dilemma Doctorate | 06/27/18 |
| insanely creepy grizzly site persian | 06/27/18 |
| Heady Hideous Dilemma Doctorate | 06/27/18 |
| insanely creepy grizzly site persian | 06/27/18 |
| pearly diverse spot | 06/27/18 |
| titillating orchid brunch legal warrant | 06/27/18 |
| submissive boyish lay azn | 06/27/18 |
| insanely creepy grizzly site persian | 06/27/18 |
| Violent swollen theater stage | 06/27/18 |
| flirting becky | 06/27/18 |
| Aromatic saffron business firm factory reset button | 06/27/18 |
| Vivacious Senate Digit Ratio | 06/27/18 |
| insanely creepy grizzly site persian | 06/27/18 |
| flirting becky | 06/27/18 |
| vermilion know-it-all double fault | 06/27/18 |
| razzle-dazzle duck-like school cafeteria famous landscape painting | 06/27/18 |
| violent multi-colored university | 06/27/18 |
| Beady-eyed crackhouse | 06/27/18 |
| insecure dog poop ceo | 06/27/18 |
| sienna base wrinkle | 06/27/18 |
| Ivory Hot Half-breed Institution | 06/27/18 |
| insecure dog poop ceo | 06/27/18 |
| misunderstood stage crotch | 06/27/18 |
| red charismatic gas station | 06/27/18 |
| insanely creepy grizzly site persian | 06/27/18 |
| red charismatic gas station | 06/27/18 |
| titillating orchid brunch legal warrant | 06/27/18 |
| violent multi-colored university | 06/27/18 |
| red charismatic gas station | 06/27/18 |
| titillating orchid brunch legal warrant | 06/27/18 |
| red charismatic gas station | 06/27/18 |
| sienna base wrinkle | 06/27/18 |
| pearly diverse spot | 06/27/18 |
| red charismatic gas station | 06/27/18 |
| pearly diverse spot | 06/27/18 |
| titillating orchid brunch legal warrant | 06/27/18 |
| pearly diverse spot | 06/27/18 |
| titillating orchid brunch legal warrant | 06/27/18 |
| red charismatic gas station | 06/27/18 |
| titillating orchid brunch legal warrant | 06/27/18 |
| red charismatic gas station | 06/27/18 |
| pearly diverse spot | 06/27/18 |
| Sapphire point old irish cottage | 06/27/18 |
| Narrow-minded twinkling step-uncle's house tattoo | 03/24/19 |
| Flushed Principal's Office New Version | 06/27/18 |
| Frum dragon round eye | 06/27/18 |
| filthy really tough guy | 06/27/18 |
| wonderful insane bawdyhouse weed whacker | 06/27/18 |
| Cheese-eating black keepsake machete | 06/27/18 |
| titillating orchid brunch legal warrant | 06/27/18 |
| Burgundy area | 06/27/18 |
| Cheese-eating black keepsake machete | 06/27/18 |
| titillating orchid brunch legal warrant | 06/27/18 |
| violent multi-colored university | 06/27/18 |
| Cheese-eating black keepsake machete | 06/27/18 |
| well-lubricated cruise ship | 06/27/18 |
| violent multi-colored university | 06/27/18 |
| soul-stirring public bath | 06/27/18 |
| violent multi-colored university | 06/27/18 |
| soul-stirring public bath | 06/27/18 |
| titillating orchid brunch legal warrant | 06/27/18 |
| soul-stirring public bath | 06/27/18 |
| violent multi-colored university | 06/27/18 |
| red charismatic gas station | 06/27/18 |
| electric misanthropic pozpig | 06/27/18 |
| wonderful insane bawdyhouse weed whacker | 06/27/18 |
| balding rambunctious pistol station | 06/27/18 |
| swashbuckling ratface casino | 06/27/18 |
| avocado deer antler | 06/27/18 |
| sick knife | 06/27/18 |
Poast new message in this thread
Date: June 27th, 2018 9:02 AM Author: insanely creepy grizzly site persian vote ITT (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317559) |
Date: June 27th, 2018 9:03 AM Author: vermilion know-it-all double fault yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317561) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:04 AM Author: insanely creepy grizzly site persian yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317569) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:04 AM Author: Maroon razzle private investor yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317571) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:04 AM Author: Heady Hideous Dilemma Doctorate no (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317573) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:05 AM Author: insanely creepy grizzly site persian you have to go back (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317576) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:17 AM Author: Heady Hideous Dilemma Doctorate settle down moshe. we were on the wrong side of that war. lol at teaming up with feckless brits/french and TTT russians instead of based krauts and japs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317651) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:18 AM Author: insanely creepy grizzly site persian so after evil coward japs conducted a sneak attack on pearl harbor we should have fought on the side of japs/krauts? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317658) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:32 AM Author: pearly diverse spot FDR made it his life mission to provoke the Japs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317764) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:50 PM Author: titillating orchid brunch legal warrant cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319704) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:06 AM Author: submissive boyish lay azn an absolute and unequivocal yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317582) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:08 AM Author: insanely creepy grizzly site persian cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317599) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:12 AM Author: Violent swollen theater stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317628) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:06 AM Author: flirting becky yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317583) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:09 AM Author: Aromatic saffron business firm factory reset button (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317604) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:10 AM Author: Vivacious Senate Digit Ratio should have nuked Moscow while we were at it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317614) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:10 AM Author: insanely creepy grizzly site persian cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317620) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:15 AM Author: flirting becky cr, mistakes were made, but not in the pacific theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317640) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:15 AM Author: vermilion know-it-all double fault The Nagasaki bomb was for Moscow. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317641) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:19 AM Author: razzle-dazzle duck-like school cafeteria famous landscape painting (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317663) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:57 PM Author: violent multi-colored university Just do betray allies with weapons of mass destruction, bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319757) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:14 AM Author: Beady-eyed crackhouse No (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317637) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:22 AM Author: insecure dog poop ceo Yes. We fucked up Jap cities with conventional bombs worse, anyway.
Libs who think using the a-bomb wrong are usually misinformed. They're pretty much comparing a modern nuke attack against something like the Doolittle raid |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:34 AM Author: sienna base wrinkle no (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317768) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:38 AM Author: Ivory Hot Half-breed Institution How else could the US have won the war? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317791) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:40 AM Author: insecure dog poop ceo Other ways, all of which would have killed way more Japs still, and caused the rest to suffer and starve (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317802) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 10:56 AM Author: misunderstood stage crotch Yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36318303) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 11:02 AM Author: red charismatic gas station No. Deliberate massacre of civilian populations is never justified. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36318352) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:08 PM Author: insanely creepy grizzly site persian cuck (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319417) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:23 PM Author: red charismatic gas station Actually, no, believing it's acceptable to exterminate civilians is a lib innovation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319540) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:52 PM Author: titillating orchid brunch legal warrant You would have accepted 2m lost American soldiers as an alternative?
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:02 PM Author: violent multi-colored university And also spent at least as many Japanese lives (probably 2x+ more), many of them civilians because "you're uncomfortable" with the alternative? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319805) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:03 PM Author: red charismatic gas station I don't believe for a single moment that that many U.S. troops would have died invading Japan (in fact, I find it highly unlikely we'd have needed to land on Japan at all), but yes, losing soldiers in an actual battle is preferable to deliberately exterminating civilians. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319819) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:05 PM Author: titillating orchid brunch legal warrant *Charles XII Sumner, sitting at his desk, with Muscadine W. Brooks, cane in hand, approaching* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319855) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:12 PM Author: red charismatic gas station Odd choice of identities, given that I'm basically advancing a version of Southern chivalry while you are pushing the Yankee doctrine of total war. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319960) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:24 PM Author: sienna base wrinkle (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319548) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:28 PM Author: pearly diverse spot I am somewhat sympathetic to this view, but to the extent I find it sympathetic, I suspect my views are biased by modern warfare, with its limited nature and use of precision munitions.
By the way, I haven't forgot about my Roman/Russian research project. It looks like I should have this Saturday free and plan to dive into it then. |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:31 PM Author: red charismatic gas station Even in an age of very unprecise, very deadly warfare, they historically had standards for how it was to be fought. The Civil War was a very brutal war, yet had very few atrocities against civilians on either side. Even Sherman's famous "March to the Sea" was conducted with rules to minimize civilian death. It took 20th century ideologies to revert back to the barbarism of antiquity and justify the wholesale extermination of enemy populations. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319602) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:47 PM Author: pearly diverse spot I think this may be a bit generous to historical actors. What was missing between 1500 to the early 1900s was a means for inflicting nearly instantaneous, relatively indiscriminate, widespread destruction, which became a possibility with aerial bombing. If Sherman had a squadron of B-17s and the South had heavy industry interspersed throughout Atlanta, I am relatively confident Sherman would have flattened Atlanta.
The standards you reference primarily require the existence of a legitimate military target and reasonable steps to minimize collateral damage, with the reasonableness standard necessarily accounting for the state of military tech at the time. In a "total war" situation that is being fought with imprecise, free-falling bombs, civilians are toast. |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:52 PM Author: titillating orchid brunch legal warrant TBF, he did a pretty good job of flattening Atlanta anyways, and Columbia as well. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319720) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:53 PM Author: pearly diverse spot Sure, but due to the methods Sherman used, the civilians had plenty of time to exit the city beforehand. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319732) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:54 PM Author: titillating orchid brunch legal warrant Fair point. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319740) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:05 PM Author: red charismatic gas station Atlanta's population was evacuated prior to the city's destruction, and Columbia's burning was not ordered by Sherman; it was either an accident or caused by the hooliganism of individual Union troops. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319850) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:06 PM Author: titillating orchid brunch legal warrant re: Columbia, very much a contested fact. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319863) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:11 PM Author: red charismatic gas station Actually, you're wrong here. For example, Sherman explicitly forbade the destruction of individual homes during the March to the Sea (this didn't stop it from happening sometimes, of course, but it wasn't deliberate policy). In contrast, the Allied bombing campaigns literally WERE premised on destroying individual houses, with the excuse that "dehousing" the civilian population was a valid military goal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehousing
And then we have this quote from Bomber Harris:
"The aim of the Combined Bomber Offensive ... should be unambiguously stated [as] the destruction of German cities, the killing of German workers, and the disruption of civilised life throughout Germany ... the destruction of houses, public utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-products of attempts to hit factories." |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 5:38 PM Author: pearly diverse spot Let me clarify my position. I don't doubt that Sherman and other officers imposed such chivalrous rules of engagement, but such rules, at that time, concerned activities that were at the margin of the fighting that was taking place at that time.
However, if the North had squadrons of B-17s it could unleash on the South, possessing such ability to project force would have informed and ultimately changed the activities that those prosecuting the war effort thought of as acceptable.
In a way, I am taking Shelby Foote's position concerning how the individuals who fought these wars should be judged by contemporary society. They were no different than modern people. Their thoughts, beliefs and actions were simply a product of their time and circumstances.
As for your closing quote, that is precisely the point I was getting at with my juxtaposition of "total war" and the limited engagements that have been fought since. To be clear, I am claiming that the quoted basis for target is acceptable, let alone that it should be applauded. |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:02 PM Author: Sapphire point old irish cottage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319806) |
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Date: March 24th, 2019 5:14 PM Author: Narrow-minded twinkling step-uncle's house tattoo goy tell (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#37982649) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:24 PM Author: Flushed Principal's Office New Version Obviously Yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319551) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:26 PM Author: Frum dragon round eye (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319560) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:26 PM Author: filthy really tough guy My answer to this question entirely hinges on how instrumental nukes were in the future development of pornographic Japanese cartoons. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319561) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:27 PM Author: wonderful insane bawdyhouse weed whacker 100% YES (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319570) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:49 PM Author: Cheese-eating black keepsake machete First one yes second one no. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319700) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:49 PM Author: titillating orchid brunch legal warrant Yes, 100%, and there are no real arguments against it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319702) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:52 PM Author: Burgundy area (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319722) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:54 PM Author: Cheese-eating black keepsake machete There are plenty of arguments against it but most of them don’t credibly account for the likelihood that absent a demonstration of overwhelming force, the Japanese would not have surrendered. An invasion of Japan would reasonably be considered to cost a million lives on both sides based on the island hopping campaign. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319738) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:55 PM Author: titillating orchid brunch legal warrant Thus, the "real" qualifier. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319745) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:56 PM Author: violent multi-colored university (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319749) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:57 PM Author: Cheese-eating black keepsake machete They are real if you believe that civilian lives should be privileged over combatant lives like Charles12 does. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319764) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 3:13 PM Author: well-lubricated cruise ship The distinction between civilian and combatant is super fucking bullshit when you consider how many combatants are conscripts (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36320882) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 3:14 PM Author: violent multi-colored university (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36320904) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:01 PM Author: soul-stirring public bath (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319795) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:03 PM Author: violent multi-colored university Yeah, it was just a coincidence that it was immediately after two Japanese cities were nuked. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319824) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:06 PM Author: soul-stirring public bath (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319865) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:07 PM Author: titillating orchid brunch legal warrant With some truth to this, analysis still applies. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319876) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:08 PM Author: soul-stirring public bath (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319895) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:55 PM Author: violent multi-colored university (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319744) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:02 PM Author: red charismatic gas station Of course there are. For example, the argument that it is evil to deliberately massacre hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians just to win a war more quickly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319804) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:50 PM Author: electric misanthropic pozpig Risten, I rove a Tluman rongtime but... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319706) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:03 PM Author: wonderful insane bawdyhouse weed whacker (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319817) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:00 PM Author: balding rambunctious pistol station Yes, of course. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319784) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:02 PM Author: swashbuckling ratface casino Yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319807) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:04 PM Author: avocado deer antler yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319828) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 5:43 PM Author: sick knife I appreciate Charles XII’s argument.
But yes, we were justified. The trend on invasions was costing us more and more. Invading Japan proper and fighting a militarized civilian population would have been more damaging. |