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alpha/beta
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Date: August 31st, 2009 2:54 AM Author: drab comical dopamine Who among you takes this shit deadly seriously?
Granted the terms "alpha" and "beta" approximate, in various ways, two polar ends of a continuum of male behavior (within a very limited universe of considered behaviors). Certain behaviors appear correlated with others that tend to cluster around one or the other poles.
However, there are at least three problems that I see with the overuse of these terms both on this board and the larger tubes.
First and most obviously, people - even men - are more complex than this. This isn't necessarily damning, because, like homo economicus, "alpha" and "beta" seem to be used largely as theoretical objects for the purpose of prediction rather than description. Or, at least, they would if properly used.
But the second problem is that they're never used this way. The terms are stretched far, far beyond their explanatory utility. "Alpha" and "beta" are used to provide reasons for literally every realm of male behavior, and they're usually unargued. If the terms were truly meaningful enough to account for the profligate modes of male behavior they'd be, well, more numerous. There would be shades of "alpha" and shades of "beta." But there aren't. There is one binary division. This isn't altogether fatal, either, but it certainly would seem to undermine the project. "Alpha" and "beta" should be used, if at all, as gesturing toward familial resemblances in behaviors, rather than as strict boundaries. But they're used in the second manner, and are now threadbare from overuse.
Probably the worst thing about these terms is that, not only is there no consensus, but there is vociferous opposition on what "alpha" and "beta" actually mean. Precious few behaviors will garner a supermajority of "180 alpha!" or "lol beta!" Each "alpha" comment invites a "beta" rejoinder, and an argument as to why the OP is, actually, beta to think that so-and-so is alpha. There is no principled way to decide, of course, since everyone who uses these terms seriously is an avowed MFE and alpha himself.
inb4 "lol beta" |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 2:57 AM Author: Sienna vigorous den the thing is, anyone can be an alpha or a beta. by that i mean that in every given situation there is an alpha and one or more betas. and one can be an alpha in one situation, and a beta in the next (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12636978) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 2:59 AM Author: drab comical dopamine This is typical of why I find these terms so maddening. Not because of what you've said - I agree, to the extent possible with these words, that there is a such thing as "situational alphaness" - but rather that someone, whether they bother to or not, will think "NO, YOU'RE EITHER ALPHA OR YOU'RE NOT."
Who is to say who is misusing the word? Maybe this is a problem with all incipient colloquialisms, but it's frustrating enough to me to shunt it totally.
Plus, I have to say, another big reason I can't stand to see them used is because the person delivering them is usually a puffed-up blowhard who calls himself "alpha" and is, actually, stupid and a douche. And if an "alpha" brags on the internet, well, common sense tells me to doubt him. |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:01 AM Author: irradiated brunch this problem is much more general than the word alpha. language is vague dood. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12636988) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:02 AM Author: drab comical dopamine Right, I guess my problem is with those who try to foist onto the terms more meaning than they're prepared to hold, as I tried to indicate in the OP. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12636993) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:01 AM Author: Sienna vigorous den relax, dood. you are acting like a beta (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12636991) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:02 AM Author: drab comical dopamine I'm relaxed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12636997) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:04 AM Author: Sienna vigorous den you have posted 1,000 words in this thread that indicate otherwise (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637002) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:04 AM Author: drab comical dopamine Where do I seem worked up? Show me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637003) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:06 AM Author: Sienna vigorous den Date: August 31st, 2009 2:54 AM Author: askav
Who among you takes this shit deadly seriously?
Granted the terms "alpha" and "beta" approximate, in various ways, two polar ends of a continuum of male behavior (within a very limited universe of considered behaviors). Certain behaviors appear correlated with others that tend to cluster around one or the other poles.
However, there are at least three problems that I see with the overuse of these terms both on this board and the larger tubes.
First and most obviously, people - even men - are more complex than this. This isn't necessarily damning, because, like homo economicus, "alpha" and "beta" seem to be used largely as theoretical objects for the purpose of prediction rather than description. Or, at least, they would if properly used.
But the second problem is that they're never used this way. The terms are stretched far, far beyond their explanatory utility. "Alpha" and "beta" are used to provide reasons for literally every realm of male behavior, and they're usually unargued. If the terms were truly meaningful enough to account for the profligate modes of male behavior they'd be, well, more numerous. There would be shades of "alpha" and shades of "beta." But there aren't. There is one binary division. This isn't altogether fatal, either, but it certainly would seem to undermine the project. "Alpha" and "beta" should be used, if at all, as gesturing toward familial resemblances in behaviors, rather than as strict boundaries. But they're used in the second manner, and are now threadbare from overuse.
Probably the worst thing about these terms is that, not only is there no consensus, but there is vociferous opposition on what "alpha" and "beta" actually mean. Precious few behaviors will garner a supermajority of "180 alpha!" or "lol beta!" Each "alpha" comment invites a "beta" rejoinder, and an argument as to why the OP is, actually, beta to think that so-and-so is alpha. There is no principled way to decide, of course, since everyone who uses these terms seriously is an avowed MFE and alpha himself.
inb4 "lol beta"
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12636970
Date: August 31st, 2009 2:59 AM Author: askav
This is typical of why I find these terms so maddening. Not because of what you've said - I agree, to the extent possible with these words, that there is a such thing as "situational alphaness" - but rather that someone, whether they bother to or not, will think "NO, YOU'RE EITHER ALPHA OR YOU'RE NOT."
Who is to say who is misusing the word? Maybe this is a problem with all incipient colloquialisms, but it's frustrating enough to me to shunt it totally.
Plus, I have to say, another big reason I can't stand to see them used is because the person delivering them is usually a puffed-up blowhard who calls himself "alpha" and is, actually, stupid and a douche. And if an "alpha" brags on the internet, well, common sense tells me to doubt him.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12636983)
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:11 AM Author: drab comical dopamine Okay. But I'm not worked up.
I think, and kindly grant this, that any questioning of the "alpha/beta" distinction - even on grounds of use of the words rather than the value of the distinction - invites policing from the "alpha/beta" orthodoxy.
It is the questioning itself that must be called "beta," in order that the queen is protected from idle drones.
You've served your role. Well done. |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 8:38 AM Author: shimmering trailer park "It is the questioning itself that must be called "beta," in order that the queen is protected from idle drones."
I know you're trying to sound smart and mysterious, but this makes no sense. And hi Pensive, by the way. |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 10:54 AM Author: drab comical dopamine "Ignavum, fucos, pecus a praesepibus arcent." It's Virgil. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637533) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 2:58 AM Author: passionate alcoholic personal credit line tending towards dominating=alpha. tending towards submission=beta (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12636982) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:00 AM Author: irradiated brunch concise solution to the "problems" presented (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12636984) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:03 AM Author: drab comical dopamine Why not say "tending toward alpha = dominating, tending toward beta = submission?" Means the same thing and has the same explanatory power.
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:09 AM Author: passionate alcoholic personal credit line not sure what this proves (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637017) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:09 AM Author: offensive cruise ship he's saying that those terms have no explanatory power (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637019) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:10 AM Author: passionate alcoholic personal credit line nvm. I am not trolling for a/b distinctions it is stupid (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637021) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 10:29 AM Author: glittery lavender point doctorate beta. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637488) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 10:56 AM Author: drab comical dopamine tyft
Do you really listen to Le Tigre btw? |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 11:03 AM Author: glittery lavender point doctorate a little. there are multiple sources for a moniker: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigre
what's the source of yours? who are you? |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 11:06 AM Author: drab comical dopamine Ah. Never heard of anyone using the French to refer to anything but the band, but thanks.
Anyway my moniker has no meaning, and I'm not anyone else's alternative moniker or anything like that. Just a dood on XO. |
Date: August 31st, 2009 3:01 AM Author: greedy boltzmann menage
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:02 AM Author: greedy boltzmann menage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12636992) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:02 AM Author: dashing cerise corn cake the biggest "problem" is what is considered alpha behavior on this board - outward aggressiveness and acting like a "tough guy" in relationships - stems 99% of the time from deep insecurity. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12636995) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:03 AM Author: Sienna vigorous den nah, most people on this board consider alpha to mean a guy walks into a room and every girl wants to fuck him (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12636999) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:06 AM Author: dashing cerise corn cake that has nothing to do with behavior.
for instance some guy who lets his girlfriend hang out with male friends is a beta because she is totally fucking around on him - as opposed to jealous and insecure alphas who like to be paranoid and controlling of everything. |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:08 AM Author: Sienna vigorous den tbf, jealous and insecure is usually seen as territorial by women, provided it is aggressive enough (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637013) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:17 AM Author: drab comical dopamine Definitely an issue. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637041) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:03 AM Author: Aquamarine misunderstood sanctuary I think alpha/beta theory describes the world pretty well. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637000) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:15 AM Author: drab comical dopamine I think it's better explained by Haves and Have Nots. Or starred and unstarred Sneetches. Or TTT and HYS. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637032) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:17 AM Author: Aquamarine misunderstood sanctuary Spoken like a true beta. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637039) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:18 AM Author: drab comical dopamine tyft (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637042) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:04 AM Author: Maniacal adventurous karate library The lawboards preoccupation with memes and labeling is a waste. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637004) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:16 AM Author: drab comical dopamine Typical tiny pink TTT prole poor striver trash beta 120 5'4" response. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637035) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:20 AM Author: Maniacal adventurous karate library 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637056) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:20 AM Author: Maniacal adventurous karate library pwn pwn pwn (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637057) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:25 AM Author: Maniacal adventurous karate library Date: August 31st, 2009 3:04 AM Author: bothered ("College is for *PUSSIES*@!" - Rory)
The lawboards preoccupation with memes and labeling is a waste.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637004) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:30 AM Author: Maniacal adventurous karate library titcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637095) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 6:45 AM Author: idiotic frum gunner business firm i lol'd at this exchange more than i've lol'd at possibly anything on xo. nice. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637275) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 8:42 AM Author: shimmering trailer park It wasn't really that funny. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637322) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 8:43 AM Author: idiotic frum gunner business firm don't you tell me what i find funny at 7 AM! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637324) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 10:30 AM Author: glittery lavender point doctorate he *DIDN'T* respond back. beta. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637493) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 11:57 PM Author: Maniacal adventurous karate library Yeah, you're probably still waiting by the phone for your ex to call. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12642168) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 11:56 PM Author: Maniacal adventurous karate library Thanks, I think we made our point up there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12642162) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:06 AM Author: offensive cruise ship people on this board latch onto the alpha/beta meme in order to make themselves feel better about their failures with women. it's a bullshit theory. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637008) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:19 AM Author: drab comical dopamine Why do you think it's so popular on the internet? Because doods on the internet suck with women? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637046) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:28 AM Author: offensive cruise ship idk (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637086) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:25 AM Author: irradiated brunch how would it make some beta feel better about his failures with women (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637075) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:27 AM Author: offensive cruise ship They can shake their heads and complain about how women only want jerks. This makes it a problem women have rather than a problem they have. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637083) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:23 AM Author: gold set black woman id :D were here this thread would be epic (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637068) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 3:24 AM Author: drab comical dopamine He would military press me right through the floorboards of his mom's kitchen. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637074) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 10:38 AM Author: bisexual federal jewess mental disorder This board is in love with clear-cut classification. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637507) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 11:00 AM Author: drab comical dopamine It's annoying. It can be helpful, sure, but pick a less muddled division or expect the division to be of limited utility as a means of sorting. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637546) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 10:41 AM Author: Misanthropic Ladyboy I am sympathetic to OP, and certainly the terms, as they are used on XO, are in need of some refinement. But his criticism is much too facile. No categories are completely black and white, and there are some undoubtedly "alpha" behaviors and some undoubtedly "beta" behaviors. Just because there may be some gray areas in rare cases, doesn't mean the entire conceptual edifice must be discarded. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637512) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 10:58 AM Author: drab comical dopamine No, I agree. As you'll notice, I'm not in favor of discarding them, but rather limiting their scope and using them to identify familial resemblance. Isn't that clear from the OP? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637541) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 10:46 AM Author: submissive swashbuckling main people circlehead Pretty beta analysis brosinski. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637521) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 10:58 AM Author: drab comical dopamine tyty (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637542) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 11:01 AM Author: out-of-control internal respiration foreskin http://www.eatlikeanalpha.com/#/whats-an-alpha/
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Date: August 31st, 2009 11:02 AM Author: drab comical dopamine LOLOL
thanks much. great find. |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 11:04 AM Author: out-of-control internal respiration foreskin I would be lost without Hardee's telling me how to eat like a man.
Also, Subway is very helpful by stating that Subway is Where Winners Eat, so I know not to eat somewhere that is for losers. |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 11:07 AM Author: drab comical dopamine I'm starting to think that the "alpha/beta" distinction was dreamt up by Madison Ave. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637566) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 11:11 AM Author: out-of-control internal respiration foreskin This is just the male version of advertisers telling women they're fat and ugly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637582) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 11:06 AM Author: glittery lavender point doctorate what is the most ALPHA position on a basketball team? would it be a shoot-first PG like AI? a dominating SG like jordan? a shaq-like center? a versatile forward like lebron or magic? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#12637564) |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 11:09 AM Author: drab comical dopamine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPKTLLb80Ns
Q.E.D. |
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Date: August 31st, 2009 11:33 AM Author: glittery lavender point doctorate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI-VY5cC2jk
summary: panties get wet at alpha display of violent power |
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Date: September 28th, 2011 1:42 PM Author: charismatic theater stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#19060199) |
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Date: September 28th, 2011 1:49 PM Author: yapping filthpig it makes sense in the strictest sense, i.e., that if civilization were wiped out and we all broke off into bands of primitive hunter gatherers, the protypical "alpha" would emerge, mate with all the women, etc.
but that doesn't mean much, because we live in a complex social environment completely removed from such a situation. |
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Date: September 28th, 2011 1:57 PM Author: Stimulating Electric Furnace Box Office beta (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1075328&forum_id=2#19060307) |