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More about Christianity's metaphysics is wrong than right. But the cost of being
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Date: November 24th, 2017 6:00 PM Author: Navy Knife wrong about what Christianity is right about is much greater than the benefit of being right about what it's wrong about. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34763889) |
Date: November 24th, 2017 10:15 PM Author: Navy Knife (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34765264) |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:17 PM Author: autistic office (Pascal) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34765273) |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:19 PM Author: Navy Knife No! The idealism is cr and it allows for public metaphysical dialog. These are credited in their own right, not dependent on expected value.
The Jesus shit is a little fucky but you don't have to buy that part. |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:17 PM Author: fragrant metal crackhouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34765276) |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:19 PM Author: Curious mischievous hunting ground generally agreed. my main complaint with the metaphysics is the consubstantiality of the trinity. if the three were distinct, the holy spirit proceeded from the father, and in turn christ (something more like the platonic world soul) proceeded from the holy spirit, that would stand better to scrutiny. unfortunately however, origen lost the day. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34765295) |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:31 PM Author: Navy Knife Dunno much about this. My guess is the ontology is receptive to a number of interpretations but sounds like there is a mainstream way of thinking about this. Your way sounds less fucky.
In Hinduism there's a debate about whether atman (individual human selves) is brahman (basically the totality of all mental stuff). Some say atman is brahman, some say it's a part/whole relationship etc.
Is Christianity in total agreement on this consubstantiation thing? My impression was that Christians are ontological dualists about god and the physical world. So maybe consubstantiation just means father/son/ghost are "god stuff" and not physical stuff, rather than some second-order/within-substance ontological relationship. |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:36 PM Author: massive lettuce I would say Christians are dualists regarding the Creator and his creatures. There are spiritual creatures that are not physical.
Spiritual-physical dualism is a recurring theme in Christianity, leading to such things as corporal mortification and monasticism. But ultimately it's a gnostic heresy. |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:41 PM Author: Navy Knife "There are spiritual creatures that are not physical."
This seems to be the most important part. Christianity includes the belief that non-physical souls exist or are possible.
It seems to be the creator/created dualism tracks mind (spirit)/body dualism, at least in that upon death the created's soul leaves the world of bodies to be in the world of spirit/creator. |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:43 PM Author: massive lettuce Any discussion of the fate of souls in Christianity cannot ignore hell. Early mystics claimed the vast majority of people go to hell. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34765468) |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:45 PM Author: Navy Knife What if hell is just rebirth into samsara (Hindu cycle of death and rebirth into a body)? Seems like a tidy way to take care of that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34765481) |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:46 PM Author: massive lettuce You should read St. John Bosco's vision of hell. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34765489) |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:48 PM Author: Navy Knife Catholimos seem scary (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34765498) |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:49 PM Author: massive lettuce Private revelation can be taken with a grain of salt. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34765509) |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:31 PM Author: massive lettuce Hate this "Judeo-Christian" stuff (which is just intended to draw Jews to the right). It should really be "Greco-Christian".
The biggest flaws that come to mind are:
1) The Messiah comes from a slave mindset where you need to be saved. This sets up an unhealthy dependency.
2) Turning the other cheek goes too far. It's unworkable as a model for a society because bad actors can too easily abuse it. It may work, however, as a prophylactic against monotheistic triumphalism such as you see in Islam.
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:41 PM Author: milky flatulent trailer park spin, ratfucks (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34765454) |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:45 PM Author: massive lettuce I actually think learned helplessness and passivity are more common flaws than narcissism. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34765485) |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:56 PM Author: milky flatulent trailer park spin, ratfucks (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34765550) |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:43 PM Author: beady-eyed state jew oldschool christians did not universalize these principles. which is to say, they operated as small-scale day-to-day ethical guidelines within the structure of an existing society. the defense of the society was not regarded as subject to those same microstructural ethical principles.
ie, "turning the other cheek" was never taken as something that one community would do in deference to some other; that fell under conflict/war guidelines. the universalization of these sorts of ethics to larger population groups is a recent historical development within christianity. |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:45 PM Author: Navy Knife Seems like a good interpretation (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34765483) |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:49 PM Author: massive lettuce So it's microeconomics/macroeconomics or quantum/classical physics all over again? They fudged it because it didn't scale? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34765503) |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:49 PM Author: Navy Knife (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34765507) |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:53 PM Author: beady-eyed state jew older christianity seemed more mindful of the parable of the tower of babel, which they took as counsel against being too friendly toward outsiders. early christianity was also buffeted by waves of invaders - first the ones who collapsed rome, and later the saracens and the moors who bit off a fair chunk of southern europe. it was considered important and desirable to christianize pagan populations, but they remained separate populations nonetheless.
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:47 PM Author: laughsome unholy ratface (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34765494) |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:35 PM Author: Frisky mad-dog skullcap location which religion is the right one though? Should I just practice all of them so I cover my bases? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34765415) |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:37 PM Author: Navy Knife Don't know if they're different enough for it to matter. The point is a public embrace of the possibility of idealism. It seems to me this is the core of most religions. The stories etc don't matter much. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34765430) |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:38 PM Author: massive lettuce I don't know the answer. I do know you have to lay it all on the line, and I mean all. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34765436) |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 10:50 PM Author: Cowardly resort Christ-insanity (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3807902&forum_id=2#34765514) |