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yes/no was Truman/USA justified in dropping the atomic bomb on Japs?
| Sapphire insane garrison | 06/27/18 |
| greedy lascivious becky | 06/27/18 |
| Sapphire insane garrison | 06/27/18 |
| Bearded parlour | 06/27/18 |
| Brass Trip Elastic Band Kitty Cat | 06/27/18 |
| Sapphire insane garrison | 06/27/18 |
| Brass Trip Elastic Band Kitty Cat | 06/27/18 |
| Sapphire insane garrison | 06/27/18 |
| Concupiscible insecure theater stage yarmulke | 06/27/18 |
| Doobsian brindle old irish cottage | 06/27/18 |
| Razzmatazz chartreuse dopamine rehab | 06/27/18 |
| Sapphire insane garrison | 06/27/18 |
| translucent haunted graveyard toilet seat | 06/27/18 |
| Emerald Whorehouse National Security Agency | 06/27/18 |
| self-absorbed nighttime forum love of her life | 06/27/18 |
| fishy tanning salon | 06/27/18 |
| Sapphire insane garrison | 06/27/18 |
| Emerald Whorehouse National Security Agency | 06/27/18 |
| greedy lascivious becky | 06/27/18 |
| dun travel guidebook laser beams | 06/27/18 |
| Duck-like Self-centered French Chef | 06/27/18 |
| Comical amethyst meetinghouse sweet tailpipe | 06/27/18 |
| aqua odious location personal credit line | 06/27/18 |
| Red Blood Rage | 06/27/18 |
| shivering casino | 06/27/18 |
| aqua odious location personal credit line | 06/27/18 |
| snowy frisky site internal respiration | 06/27/18 |
| underhanded candlestick maker market | 06/27/18 |
| Sapphire insane garrison | 06/27/18 |
| underhanded candlestick maker market | 06/27/18 |
| Doobsian brindle old irish cottage | 06/27/18 |
| Duck-like Self-centered French Chef | 06/27/18 |
| underhanded candlestick maker market | 06/27/18 |
| Doobsian brindle old irish cottage | 06/27/18 |
| underhanded candlestick maker market | 06/27/18 |
| Red Blood Rage | 06/27/18 |
| Concupiscible insecure theater stage yarmulke | 06/27/18 |
| underhanded candlestick maker market | 06/27/18 |
| Concupiscible insecure theater stage yarmulke | 06/27/18 |
| Doobsian brindle old irish cottage | 06/27/18 |
| Concupiscible insecure theater stage yarmulke | 06/27/18 |
| Doobsian brindle old irish cottage | 06/27/18 |
| underhanded candlestick maker market | 06/27/18 |
| Doobsian brindle old irish cottage | 06/27/18 |
| underhanded candlestick maker market | 06/27/18 |
| Concupiscible insecure theater stage yarmulke | 06/27/18 |
| Avocado Abode | 06/27/18 |
| Adventurous umber nursing home mad-dog skullcap | 03/24/19 |
| olive racy locus codepig | 06/27/18 |
| Primrose floppy depressive half-breed | 06/27/18 |
| Confused Amber Spot | 06/27/18 |
| Beady-eyed ratface | 06/27/18 |
| Transparent queen of the night hissy fit | 06/27/18 |
| Doobsian brindle old irish cottage | 06/27/18 |
| bronze boyish box office boltzmann | 06/27/18 |
| Transparent queen of the night hissy fit | 06/27/18 |
| Doobsian brindle old irish cottage | 06/27/18 |
| Duck-like Self-centered French Chef | 06/27/18 |
| Transparent queen of the night hissy fit | 06/27/18 |
| Talented crackhouse | 06/27/18 |
| Duck-like Self-centered French Chef | 06/27/18 |
| Stimulating Jet Hospital | 06/27/18 |
| Duck-like Self-centered French Chef | 06/27/18 |
| Stimulating Jet Hospital | 06/27/18 |
| Doobsian brindle old irish cottage | 06/27/18 |
| Stimulating Jet Hospital | 06/27/18 |
| Duck-like Self-centered French Chef | 06/27/18 |
| underhanded candlestick maker market | 06/27/18 |
| misanthropic glassy set | 06/27/18 |
| Beady-eyed ratface | 06/27/18 |
| Irradiated pistol | 06/27/18 |
| slate marvelous resort masturbator | 06/27/18 |
| Exciting narrow-minded hell | 06/27/18 |
| insanely creepy stirring jap | 06/27/18 |
Poast new message in this thread
Date: June 27th, 2018 9:02 AM Author: Sapphire insane garrison vote ITT (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317559) |
Date: June 27th, 2018 9:03 AM Author: greedy lascivious becky yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317561) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:04 AM Author: Sapphire insane garrison yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317569) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:04 AM Author: Bearded parlour yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317571) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:04 AM Author: Brass Trip Elastic Band Kitty Cat no (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317573) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:05 AM Author: Sapphire insane garrison you have to go back (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317576) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:17 AM Author: Brass Trip Elastic Band Kitty Cat settle down moshe. we were on the wrong side of that war. lol at teaming up with feckless brits/french and TTT russians instead of based krauts and japs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317651) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:18 AM Author: Sapphire insane garrison so after evil coward japs conducted a sneak attack on pearl harbor we should have fought on the side of japs/krauts? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317658) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:32 AM Author: Concupiscible insecure theater stage yarmulke FDR made it his life mission to provoke the Japs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317764) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:50 PM Author: Doobsian brindle old irish cottage cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319704) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:06 AM Author: Razzmatazz chartreuse dopamine rehab an absolute and unequivocal yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317582) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:08 AM Author: Sapphire insane garrison cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317599) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:12 AM Author: translucent haunted graveyard toilet seat (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317628) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:06 AM Author: Emerald Whorehouse National Security Agency yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317583) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:09 AM Author: self-absorbed nighttime forum love of her life (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317604) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:10 AM Author: fishy tanning salon should have nuked Moscow while we were at it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317614) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:10 AM Author: Sapphire insane garrison cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317620) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:15 AM Author: Emerald Whorehouse National Security Agency cr, mistakes were made, but not in the pacific theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317640) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:15 AM Author: greedy lascivious becky The Nagasaki bomb was for Moscow. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317641) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:19 AM Author: dun travel guidebook laser beams (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317663) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:57 PM Author: Duck-like Self-centered French Chef Just do betray allies with weapons of mass destruction, bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319757) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:14 AM Author: Comical amethyst meetinghouse sweet tailpipe No (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317637) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:22 AM Author: aqua odious location personal credit line Yes. We fucked up Jap cities with conventional bombs worse, anyway.
Libs who think using the a-bomb wrong are usually misinformed. They're pretty much comparing a modern nuke attack against something like the Doolittle raid |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:34 AM Author: Red Blood Rage no (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317768) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:38 AM Author: shivering casino How else could the US have won the war? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317791) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:40 AM Author: aqua odious location personal credit line Other ways, all of which would have killed way more Japs still, and caused the rest to suffer and starve (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317802) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 10:56 AM Author: snowy frisky site internal respiration Yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36318303) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 11:02 AM Author: underhanded candlestick maker market No. Deliberate massacre of civilian populations is never justified. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36318352) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:08 PM Author: Sapphire insane garrison cuck (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319417) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:23 PM Author: underhanded candlestick maker market Actually, no, believing it's acceptable to exterminate civilians is a lib innovation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319540) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:52 PM Author: Doobsian brindle old irish cottage You would have accepted 2m lost American soldiers as an alternative?
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:02 PM Author: Duck-like Self-centered French Chef And also spent at least as many Japanese lives (probably 2x+ more), many of them civilians because "you're uncomfortable" with the alternative? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319805) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:03 PM Author: underhanded candlestick maker market I don't believe for a single moment that that many U.S. troops would have died invading Japan (in fact, I find it highly unlikely we'd have needed to land on Japan at all), but yes, losing soldiers in an actual battle is preferable to deliberately exterminating civilians. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319819) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:05 PM Author: Doobsian brindle old irish cottage *Charles XII Sumner, sitting at his desk, with Muscadine W. Brooks, cane in hand, approaching* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319855) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:12 PM Author: underhanded candlestick maker market Odd choice of identities, given that I'm basically advancing a version of Southern chivalry while you are pushing the Yankee doctrine of total war. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319960) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:24 PM Author: Red Blood Rage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319548) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:28 PM Author: Concupiscible insecure theater stage yarmulke I am somewhat sympathetic to this view, but to the extent I find it sympathetic, I suspect my views are biased by modern warfare, with its limited nature and use of precision munitions.
By the way, I haven't forgot about my Roman/Russian research project. It looks like I should have this Saturday free and plan to dive into it then. |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:31 PM Author: underhanded candlestick maker market Even in an age of very unprecise, very deadly warfare, they historically had standards for how it was to be fought. The Civil War was a very brutal war, yet had very few atrocities against civilians on either side. Even Sherman's famous "March to the Sea" was conducted with rules to minimize civilian death. It took 20th century ideologies to revert back to the barbarism of antiquity and justify the wholesale extermination of enemy populations. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319602) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:47 PM Author: Concupiscible insecure theater stage yarmulke I think this may be a bit generous to historical actors. What was missing between 1500 to the early 1900s was a means for inflicting nearly instantaneous, relatively indiscriminate, widespread destruction, which became a possibility with aerial bombing. If Sherman had a squadron of B-17s and the South had heavy industry interspersed throughout Atlanta, I am relatively confident Sherman would have flattened Atlanta.
The standards you reference primarily require the existence of a legitimate military target and reasonable steps to minimize collateral damage, with the reasonableness standard necessarily accounting for the state of military tech at the time. In a "total war" situation that is being fought with imprecise, free-falling bombs, civilians are toast. |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:52 PM Author: Doobsian brindle old irish cottage TBF, he did a pretty good job of flattening Atlanta anyways, and Columbia as well. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319720) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:53 PM Author: Concupiscible insecure theater stage yarmulke Sure, but due to the methods Sherman used, the civilians had plenty of time to exit the city beforehand. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319732) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:54 PM Author: Doobsian brindle old irish cottage Fair point. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319740) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:05 PM Author: underhanded candlestick maker market Atlanta's population was evacuated prior to the city's destruction, and Columbia's burning was not ordered by Sherman; it was either an accident or caused by the hooliganism of individual Union troops. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319850) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:06 PM Author: Doobsian brindle old irish cottage re: Columbia, very much a contested fact. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319863) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:11 PM Author: underhanded candlestick maker market Actually, you're wrong here. For example, Sherman explicitly forbade the destruction of individual homes during the March to the Sea (this didn't stop it from happening sometimes, of course, but it wasn't deliberate policy). In contrast, the Allied bombing campaigns literally WERE premised on destroying individual houses, with the excuse that "dehousing" the civilian population was a valid military goal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehousing
And then we have this quote from Bomber Harris:
"The aim of the Combined Bomber Offensive ... should be unambiguously stated [as] the destruction of German cities, the killing of German workers, and the disruption of civilised life throughout Germany ... the destruction of houses, public utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-products of attempts to hit factories." |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 5:38 PM Author: Concupiscible insecure theater stage yarmulke Let me clarify my position. I don't doubt that Sherman and other officers imposed such chivalrous rules of engagement, but such rules, at that time, concerned activities that were at the margin of the fighting that was taking place at that time.
However, if the North had squadrons of B-17s it could unleash on the South, possessing such ability to project force would have informed and ultimately changed the activities that those prosecuting the war effort thought of as acceptable.
In a way, I am taking Shelby Foote's position concerning how the individuals who fought these wars should be judged by contemporary society. They were no different than modern people. Their thoughts, beliefs and actions were simply a product of their time and circumstances.
As for your closing quote, that is precisely the point I was getting at with my juxtaposition of "total war" and the limited engagements that have been fought since. To be clear, I am claiming that the quoted basis for target is acceptable, let alone that it should be applauded. |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:02 PM Author: Avocado Abode (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319806) |
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Date: March 24th, 2019 5:14 PM Author: Adventurous umber nursing home mad-dog skullcap goy tell (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#37982649) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:24 PM Author: olive racy locus codepig Obviously Yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319551) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:26 PM Author: Primrose floppy depressive half-breed (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319560) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:26 PM Author: Confused Amber Spot My answer to this question entirely hinges on how instrumental nukes were in the future development of pornographic Japanese cartoons. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319561) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:27 PM Author: Beady-eyed ratface 100% YES (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319570) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:49 PM Author: Transparent queen of the night hissy fit First one yes second one no. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319700) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:49 PM Author: Doobsian brindle old irish cottage Yes, 100%, and there are no real arguments against it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319702) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:52 PM Author: bronze boyish box office boltzmann (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319722) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:54 PM Author: Transparent queen of the night hissy fit There are plenty of arguments against it but most of them don’t credibly account for the likelihood that absent a demonstration of overwhelming force, the Japanese would not have surrendered. An invasion of Japan would reasonably be considered to cost a million lives on both sides based on the island hopping campaign. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319738) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:55 PM Author: Doobsian brindle old irish cottage Thus, the "real" qualifier. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319745) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:56 PM Author: Duck-like Self-centered French Chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319749) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:57 PM Author: Transparent queen of the night hissy fit They are real if you believe that civilian lives should be privileged over combatant lives like Charles12 does. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319764) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 3:13 PM Author: Talented crackhouse The distinction between civilian and combatant is super fucking bullshit when you consider how many combatants are conscripts (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36320882) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 3:14 PM Author: Duck-like Self-centered French Chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36320904) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:01 PM Author: Stimulating Jet Hospital (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319795) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:03 PM Author: Duck-like Self-centered French Chef Yeah, it was just a coincidence that it was immediately after two Japanese cities were nuked. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319824) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:06 PM Author: Stimulating Jet Hospital (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319865) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:07 PM Author: Doobsian brindle old irish cottage With some truth to this, analysis still applies. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319876) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:08 PM Author: Stimulating Jet Hospital (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319895) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:55 PM Author: Duck-like Self-centered French Chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319744) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:02 PM Author: underhanded candlestick maker market Of course there are. For example, the argument that it is evil to deliberately massacre hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians just to win a war more quickly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319804) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:50 PM Author: misanthropic glassy set Risten, I rove a Tluman rongtime but... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319706) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:03 PM Author: Beady-eyed ratface (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319817) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:00 PM Author: Irradiated pistol Yes, of course. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319784) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:02 PM Author: slate marvelous resort masturbator Yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319807) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:04 PM Author: Exciting narrow-minded hell yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319828) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 5:43 PM Author: insanely creepy stirring jap I appreciate Charles XII’s argument.
But yes, we were justified. The trend on invasions was costing us more and more. Invading Japan proper and fighting a militarized civilian population would have been more damaging. |