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yes/no was Truman/USA justified in dropping the atomic bomb on Japs?
| Avocado appetizing kitty cat corner | 06/27/18 |
| at-the-ready senate feces | 06/27/18 |
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| swashbuckling set fat ankles | 06/27/18 |
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| Haunting famous landscape painting | 06/27/18 |
| diverse library kitty | 06/27/18 |
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| Thriller principal's office | 06/27/18 |
| Flesh Mexican | 06/27/18 |
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| mewling striped hyena death wish | 06/27/18 |
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| Flesh Mexican | 06/27/18 |
| mewling striped hyena death wish | 06/27/18 |
| Flesh Mexican | 06/27/18 |
| smoky gaped center prole | 06/27/18 |
| Mind-boggling harsh heaven | 06/27/18 |
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: June 27th, 2018 9:02 AM Author: Avocado appetizing kitty cat corner vote ITT (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317559) |
Date: June 27th, 2018 9:03 AM Author: at-the-ready senate feces yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317561) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:04 AM Author: Avocado appetizing kitty cat corner yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317569) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:04 AM Author: razzle-dazzle hyperventilating rehab yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317571) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:04 AM Author: Cyan passionate hall factory reset button no (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317573) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:05 AM Author: Avocado appetizing kitty cat corner you have to go back (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317576) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:17 AM Author: Cyan passionate hall factory reset button settle down moshe. we were on the wrong side of that war. lol at teaming up with feckless brits/french and TTT russians instead of based krauts and japs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317651) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:18 AM Author: Avocado appetizing kitty cat corner so after evil coward japs conducted a sneak attack on pearl harbor we should have fought on the side of japs/krauts? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317658) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:32 AM Author: smoky gaped center prole FDR made it his life mission to provoke the Japs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317764) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:50 PM Author: mewling striped hyena death wish cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319704) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:06 AM Author: pungent excitant point an absolute and unequivocal yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317582) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:08 AM Author: Avocado appetizing kitty cat corner cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317599) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:12 AM Author: Bateful Stage Alpha (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317628) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:06 AM Author: Dashing brunch nibblets yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317583) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:09 AM Author: Thirsty foreskin private investor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317604) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:10 AM Author: insanely creepy pit should have nuked Moscow while we were at it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317614) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:10 AM Author: Avocado appetizing kitty cat corner cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317620) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:15 AM Author: Dashing brunch nibblets cr, mistakes were made, but not in the pacific theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317640) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:15 AM Author: at-the-ready senate feces The Nagasaki bomb was for Moscow. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317641) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:19 AM Author: overrated business firm boltzmann (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317663) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:57 PM Author: exciting amethyst gaming laptop mother Just do betray allies with weapons of mass destruction, bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319757) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:14 AM Author: swashbuckling set fat ankles No (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317637) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:22 AM Author: internet-worthy transparent community account legal warrant Yes. We fucked up Jap cities with conventional bombs worse, anyway.
Libs who think using the a-bomb wrong are usually misinformed. They're pretty much comparing a modern nuke attack against something like the Doolittle raid |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:34 AM Author: Haunting famous landscape painting no (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317768) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:38 AM Author: diverse library kitty How else could the US have won the war? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317791) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:40 AM Author: internet-worthy transparent community account legal warrant Other ways, all of which would have killed way more Japs still, and caused the rest to suffer and starve (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317802) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 10:56 AM Author: Thriller principal's office Yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36318303) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 11:02 AM Author: Flesh Mexican No. Deliberate massacre of civilian populations is never justified. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36318352) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:08 PM Author: Avocado appetizing kitty cat corner cuck (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319417) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:23 PM Author: Flesh Mexican Actually, no, believing it's acceptable to exterminate civilians is a lib innovation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319540) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:52 PM Author: mewling striped hyena death wish You would have accepted 2m lost American soldiers as an alternative?
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:02 PM Author: exciting amethyst gaming laptop mother And also spent at least as many Japanese lives (probably 2x+ more), many of them civilians because "you're uncomfortable" with the alternative? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319805) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:03 PM Author: Flesh Mexican I don't believe for a single moment that that many U.S. troops would have died invading Japan (in fact, I find it highly unlikely we'd have needed to land on Japan at all), but yes, losing soldiers in an actual battle is preferable to deliberately exterminating civilians. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319819) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:05 PM Author: mewling striped hyena death wish *Charles XII Sumner, sitting at his desk, with Muscadine W. Brooks, cane in hand, approaching* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319855) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:12 PM Author: Flesh Mexican Odd choice of identities, given that I'm basically advancing a version of Southern chivalry while you are pushing the Yankee doctrine of total war. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319960) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:24 PM Author: Haunting famous landscape painting (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319548) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:28 PM Author: smoky gaped center prole I am somewhat sympathetic to this view, but to the extent I find it sympathetic, I suspect my views are biased by modern warfare, with its limited nature and use of precision munitions.
By the way, I haven't forgot about my Roman/Russian research project. It looks like I should have this Saturday free and plan to dive into it then. |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:31 PM Author: Flesh Mexican Even in an age of very unprecise, very deadly warfare, they historically had standards for how it was to be fought. The Civil War was a very brutal war, yet had very few atrocities against civilians on either side. Even Sherman's famous "March to the Sea" was conducted with rules to minimize civilian death. It took 20th century ideologies to revert back to the barbarism of antiquity and justify the wholesale extermination of enemy populations. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319602) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:47 PM Author: smoky gaped center prole I think this may be a bit generous to historical actors. What was missing between 1500 to the early 1900s was a means for inflicting nearly instantaneous, relatively indiscriminate, widespread destruction, which became a possibility with aerial bombing. If Sherman had a squadron of B-17s and the South had heavy industry interspersed throughout Atlanta, I am relatively confident Sherman would have flattened Atlanta.
The standards you reference primarily require the existence of a legitimate military target and reasonable steps to minimize collateral damage, with the reasonableness standard necessarily accounting for the state of military tech at the time. In a "total war" situation that is being fought with imprecise, free-falling bombs, civilians are toast. |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:52 PM Author: mewling striped hyena death wish TBF, he did a pretty good job of flattening Atlanta anyways, and Columbia as well. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319720) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:53 PM Author: smoky gaped center prole Sure, but due to the methods Sherman used, the civilians had plenty of time to exit the city beforehand. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319732) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:54 PM Author: mewling striped hyena death wish Fair point. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319740) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:05 PM Author: Flesh Mexican Atlanta's population was evacuated prior to the city's destruction, and Columbia's burning was not ordered by Sherman; it was either an accident or caused by the hooliganism of individual Union troops. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319850) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:06 PM Author: mewling striped hyena death wish re: Columbia, very much a contested fact. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319863) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:11 PM Author: Flesh Mexican Actually, you're wrong here. For example, Sherman explicitly forbade the destruction of individual homes during the March to the Sea (this didn't stop it from happening sometimes, of course, but it wasn't deliberate policy). In contrast, the Allied bombing campaigns literally WERE premised on destroying individual houses, with the excuse that "dehousing" the civilian population was a valid military goal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehousing
And then we have this quote from Bomber Harris:
"The aim of the Combined Bomber Offensive ... should be unambiguously stated [as] the destruction of German cities, the killing of German workers, and the disruption of civilised life throughout Germany ... the destruction of houses, public utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-products of attempts to hit factories." |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 5:38 PM Author: smoky gaped center prole Let me clarify my position. I don't doubt that Sherman and other officers imposed such chivalrous rules of engagement, but such rules, at that time, concerned activities that were at the margin of the fighting that was taking place at that time.
However, if the North had squadrons of B-17s it could unleash on the South, possessing such ability to project force would have informed and ultimately changed the activities that those prosecuting the war effort thought of as acceptable.
In a way, I am taking Shelby Foote's position concerning how the individuals who fought these wars should be judged by contemporary society. They were no different than modern people. Their thoughts, beliefs and actions were simply a product of their time and circumstances.
As for your closing quote, that is precisely the point I was getting at with my juxtaposition of "total war" and the limited engagements that have been fought since. To be clear, I am claiming that the quoted basis for target is acceptable, let alone that it should be applauded. |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:02 PM Author: Mind-boggling harsh heaven (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319806) |
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Date: March 24th, 2019 5:14 PM Author: Obsidian narrow-minded locus goy tell (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#37982649) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:24 PM Author: 180 idea he suggested Obviously Yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319551) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:26 PM Author: Disrespectful marketing idea roast beef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319560) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:26 PM Author: white travel guidebook indian lodge My answer to this question entirely hinges on how instrumental nukes were in the future development of pornographic Japanese cartoons. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319561) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:27 PM Author: motley orange stage 100% YES (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319570) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:49 PM Author: Kink-friendly Cobalt Gaping Patrolman First one yes second one no. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319700) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:49 PM Author: mewling striped hyena death wish Yes, 100%, and there are no real arguments against it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319702) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:52 PM Author: Emerald irradiated home jew (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319722) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:54 PM Author: Kink-friendly Cobalt Gaping Patrolman There are plenty of arguments against it but most of them don’t credibly account for the likelihood that absent a demonstration of overwhelming force, the Japanese would not have surrendered. An invasion of Japan would reasonably be considered to cost a million lives on both sides based on the island hopping campaign. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319738) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:55 PM Author: mewling striped hyena death wish Thus, the "real" qualifier. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319745) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:56 PM Author: exciting amethyst gaming laptop mother (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319749) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:57 PM Author: Kink-friendly Cobalt Gaping Patrolman They are real if you believe that civilian lives should be privileged over combatant lives like Charles12 does. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319764) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 3:13 PM Author: Cordovan duck-like forum The distinction between civilian and combatant is super fucking bullshit when you consider how many combatants are conscripts (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36320882) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 3:14 PM Author: exciting amethyst gaming laptop mother (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36320904) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:01 PM Author: Beady-eyed Hospital Jewess (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319795) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:03 PM Author: exciting amethyst gaming laptop mother Yeah, it was just a coincidence that it was immediately after two Japanese cities were nuked. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319824) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:06 PM Author: Beady-eyed Hospital Jewess (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319865) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:07 PM Author: mewling striped hyena death wish With some truth to this, analysis still applies. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319876) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:08 PM Author: Beady-eyed Hospital Jewess (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319895) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:55 PM Author: exciting amethyst gaming laptop mother (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319744) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:02 PM Author: Flesh Mexican Of course there are. For example, the argument that it is evil to deliberately massacre hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians just to win a war more quickly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319804) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:50 PM Author: salmon black woman public bath Risten, I rove a Tluman rongtime but... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319706) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:03 PM Author: motley orange stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319817) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:00 PM Author: Pearl hairraiser rigpig Yes, of course. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319784) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:04 PM Author: elite whorehouse yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319828) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 5:43 PM Author: unholy resort pervert I appreciate Charles XII’s argument.
But yes, we were justified. The trend on invasions was costing us more and more. Invading Japan proper and fighting a militarized civilian population would have been more damaging. |