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After 15 years developing new PT test, Army to scrap bc women can’t pass
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: March 14th, 2021 6:34 PM Author: Jet-lagged apoplectic point wagecucks US army halts gender neutral fitness test as women struggle
13 Mar, 2021 02:28 AM The US army is considering scrapping its new gender neutral fitness test because women have been failing in much larger numbers than men.
Research showed that the Army Combat Fitness Test (ACFT), which is the same for male and female soldiers, was leading to lower results for women with a knock-on effect for promotions.
An early Pentagon study showed women were failing the ACFT at a rate of 65 per cent, compared with 10 per cent for men. Congress has halted implementation of the new test and the army has begun an independent review into whether it is fair. It has been suggested that the standard test could be evaluated differently for men and women.
The test includes six events - a maximum deadlift, a standing power throw, hand-release push-ups, a sprint, drag and carry, leg tuck, and a two-mile run. Those taking it must score at least 360 points out of a possible 600, and those who achieve higher scores are more likely to be promoted.
Read more • US election: Donald Trump's request for huge military-style farewell parade rejected by the Pentagon • Joe Biden reverses Trump's ban on transgender in the military • Trump's last day: 12 National Guards removed from Joe Biden inauguration due to far-right links • US warns of military response to rocket attack on Iraq base
However, average scores for women so far are said to have been 100 points lower.
Congress has now declared that the test in its current form should not be a factor in deciding whether someone gets promoted. Expected changes include how core body strength is tested in the leg tuck. Instead of hanging from a bar and tucking legs to their chest, soldiers will instead be given the option of doing a two-minute plank exercise. Early research showed female soldiers' scores improved with the plank option.
The US army is considering scrapping its new gender neutral fitness test as women have been failing in much larger numbers than men. Photo / Getty image The US army is considering scrapping its new gender neutral fitness test as women have been failing in much larger numbers than men. Photo / Getty image Last month, an army official said a possible solution for the gulf in test scores was using "gender-specific" percentile groupings when considering promotions. Rather than using their raw scores, men and women would separately be categorised in the top 1 per cent, top 10 per cent, and so on.
An army officer told Military.com: "We have to figure out a way to make it fair to both genders."
All US soldiers have been able to take the new test since October, but it will not count towards promotions until March 2022.
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Date: March 14th, 2021 6:35 PM Author: beady-eyed mildly autistic nibblets if they're going to have women in the military can they just say they go into non-physical roles? I'm not even saying non-combat roles but shit like flying planes and so on. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103530) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 6:36 PM Author: Jet-lagged apoplectic point wagecucks Maybe in the Chair Force, but in the Army everyone needs to be able to fight. The cook needs to be a blessing to grab a rifle and fight in a pinch. The army band second mission for example is to defend and then self-destruct their brigade headquarters when overrun. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103533) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:14 PM Author: bat-shit-crazy quadroon site That’s the Marines. Every Marine is a rifleman. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103678) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 8:42 PM Author: Rose motley lay windowlicker Rifle"person", you bigot. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104057) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 4:04 AM Author: seedy internet-worthy orchestra pit Rifler?
Rifleist?
Rifleshooter? |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 9:00 PM Author: overrated sinister fortuitous meteor institution No the fuck they don't, you dumbass.
The Army is designed to maintain and hold territory. The cook is not expected to fight, neither is the Finance Officer or the fucking JAG Officer.
You are referring to the Marines. |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 12:43 PM Author: dead galvanic sneaky criminal school cafeteria This is just completely ignoring Jag Team 6 storming Fallujah using their briefcases as clusterbombs back in like 2004 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42107506) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 12:12 AM Author: Light Multi-colored Church Building Cuck Keep them out of flying too please. They're constantly crashing shit and that's expensive to the tax payer. Military pilots still need to be able to pull Gs. Women will pass out from hot flashes and standing up too quick lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42105183) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 12:15 AM Author: Hairraiser Pontificating Business Firm Athletic Conference lmao (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42105198) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 12:50 PM Author: electric purple chad (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42107567) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 6:37 PM Author: bat shit crazy property half-breed also alarming that apparently 10% of the males in our military can’t pass a physical test that 35% of women can. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103539) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 6:46 PM Author: chrome house-broken private investor famous landscape painting That's the social media team (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103570) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 8:57 PM Author: Dull free-loading sex offender abode (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104109) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:05 PM Author: useless contagious regret Lol at how much of a downgrade this is from the old test too. The absolute slowest passing 2-mile time (for men) from the old test gets you 84/100 on this one (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103649) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:12 PM Author: provocative parlor son of senegal this stuff stopped being funny on XO 5 years ago. every day there's some ridiculous lowering of standards in this country (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103670) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:15 PM Author: bat-shit-crazy quadroon site (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103681) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:16 PM Author: Concupiscible chapel organic girlfriend idk i still think its funny (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103684) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:21 PM Author: provocative parlor son of senegal i agree. it's funny, but it's not (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103702) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:15 PM Author: Primrose Fragrant Yarmulke Trust Fund What kinda times we talking here ? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103682) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:16 PM Author: useless contagious regret 15:54 2 mile run. The new minimum standard is 21:00. 15:54 gets you 84/100 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103686) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:24 PM Author: Jet-lagged apoplectic point wagecucks 15:54 is only for 18 year olds. the minimum for older ages is like 27 minuted fir men. For women the longest for 18 year olds is 19 mins or something (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103714) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:33 PM Author: useless contagious regret Slowest acceptable time for 41 year old men on the old test was still 18:18. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103755) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 9:16 PM Author: Aromatic outnumbered location WTF, I'm a mid 40's male who hobby jogs about ~10 miles a week and I can do 2 miles under 15 min w/o issue. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104213) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 1:06 PM Author: bat-shit-crazy quadroon site (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42107664) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 8:43 PM Author: Rose motley lay windowlicker Didn't look into this too deeply but I remember it being 15:54 or something for men just to pass. the women would get 90/100 for that same time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104061) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 12:15 AM Author: disturbing arousing forum That’s because there are now some really strenuous events before the two mile run that wear down your legs. The new test is harder than the old one but both are easy to pass. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42105199) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:07 PM Author: thirsty razzle field boistinker lol at this fucking retarded bullshit. Shouldn't the focus be on having capable BUFF as FUCK soldiers that can win a battle, not letting some bleeding cunts play dress up? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103659) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:10 PM Author: pearl old irish cottage Hmm why would the US suddenly lose interest in being able to beat China this year (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103663) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:15 PM Author: bat-shit-crazy quadroon site Disgusting (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103683) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 8:40 AM Author: nighttime puce spot kitty cat (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42106252) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:13 PM Author: Primrose Fragrant Yarmulke Trust Fund Just let them do downward dog.
Instead of hanging from a bar and tucking legs to their chest, soldiers will instead be given the option of doing a two-minute plank exercise. Early research showed female soldiers' scores improved with the plank option. |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:19 PM Author: useless contagious regret The passing standard is 1 leg tuck. Most women can't even do that (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103697) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:16 PM Author: at-the-ready frisky kitchen the 'military' is increasingly just a jobs/gibs program. nobody actually expects these 'soldiers' to be able to 'fight.' and the pretense will gradually drop more and more as time goes on. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103685) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:21 PM Author: useless contagious regret Our corrupt leadership won't stop entering stupid wars nor will they admit that the token strong women shouldn't be on the battlefield, so this reduction in standards will inevitably end up getting a bunch of our people killed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103703) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:28 PM Author: Jet-lagged apoplectic point wagecucks Vegetius on the late Roman Empire’s army:
“…it is plain the infantry are entirely defenceless. From the foundation of the city till the reign of the Emperor Gratian, the foot wore cuirasses and helmets. But negligence and sloth having by degrees introduced a total relaxation of discipline, the soldiers began to think their armour too heavy, as they seldom put it on. They first requested leave from the Emperor to lay aside the cuirass and afterwards the helmet. In consequence of this, our troops in their engagements with the Goths were often overwhelmed with their showers of arrows.” - excerpt from De Re Militari (Latin for: "Concerning Military Matters"). |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 12:14 AM Author: Medicated Burgundy Resort Weed Whacker flame, Goths have like a C- archery range, maybe you're thinking of the Huns. The Goths' strategy is to overwhelm you with an infantry rush (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42105194) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 11:11 AM Author: Startled Queen Of The Night Ceo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42106881) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:20 PM Author: bat shit crazy property half-breed “An alternative proposal involves adding other components to the exam that would be likely to equalize scores among the male and female participants. While eventually scrapped, female soldiers performed strongly on contemplated test sections such as ‘Hitting the Curb with a New Vehicle’ and ‘Asking how Many Drinks You Plan on Having Tonight.’ Some advocates feel that including these and other measurements in the final version of the test would help ensure continued domination on the battlefield for generations to come.” (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103700) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 8:51 PM Author: Shimmering glittery shitlib base (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104085) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 9:05 PM Author: Mischievous adventurous puppy nursing home (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104150) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 9:07 PM Author: Exciting Mad Cow Disease (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104167) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 10:33 PM Author: Mahogany theater deer antler (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104617) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 12:05 AM Author: high-end circlehead (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42105156) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 12:16 AM Author: Hairraiser Pontificating Business Firm Athletic Conference (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42105201) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 2:21 AM Author: Light Multi-colored Church Building Cuck (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42105674) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 10:16 AM Author: overrated sinister fortuitous meteor institution (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42106608) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 11:12 AM Author: Startled Queen Of The Night Ceo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42106887) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 12:52 PM Author: electric purple chad (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42107582) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 1:06 PM Author: opaque charismatic travel guidebook center (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42107668) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:26 PM Author: Vengeful macaca No wonder they want BUFF as fuck trannies (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103721) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:33 PM Author: Lime crackhouse Holy shit. There's something to this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103756) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 7:27 AM Author: Flatulent brunch preventive strike (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42106093) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:33 PM Author: Violent ladyboy dingle berry The funny thing is, men and women generally do about the same on the timed sit-up event. But now they swapped it for some weird hanging bar spasm event. Bizarre.
The 3rm deadlift is also interesting. Same standards regardless of body weight. 250 pound dude is going to sail through, but I guess he’ll be puffing on the run. |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:36 PM Author: Lime crackhouse I'm appalled by the lowering of standards and by the idea of allowing women in combat units. So don't take this as criticism of the leg tuck exercise. But doing pull ups or pull up-esque exercises like that is really, really hard. When I first decided I wanted to do pull ups, it took me four months of training on the assisted pull up machine before I could do one. After years of training, I can only do 15 in one set. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103768) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 7:37 PM Author: Violent ladyboy dingle berry Blank this. Very embarrassing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42103772) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 8:49 PM Author: Stimulating Ungodly Trailer Park lmao cr. but if he is now doing dead hang full extension/full contraction pull uo sets of 15 then thats actually impressive as fuck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104075) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 10:49 PM Author: Lime crackhouse Impressive in its own right, or impressive because of where I started? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104731) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 11:47 PM Author: Stimulating Ungodly Trailer Park standing alone. if you're doing 15 legit pullups that's impressive period. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42105076) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 12:04 AM Author: blue volcanic crater 15 is a lot. Doing 1 is not hard. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42105155) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 1:00 PM Author: bespoke obsidian menage cumskin pull ups select for smaller dudes,
6'3 225 lb guy isn't going to be doing a ton of pull ups
5'6 155 lb guy might knock out a bunch |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 8:40 PM Author: Rose motley lay windowlicker The only women I know who can run 5-minute miles and do 90 pushups in two minutes are all named Bruce and have a penis. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104042) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 8:48 PM Author: Stirring box office dog poop a 5 minute mile is hard af even for fit young men. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104073) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 9:07 PM Author: Exciting Mad Cow Disease (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104162) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 8:50 PM Author: yapping step-uncle's house 5 minute mile is an elite time (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104078) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 8:52 PM Author: Shimmering glittery shitlib base 5 is ridiculous, 6 is a good target (300 PFT time), 7 everyone should be able to do.
(3 mile run) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 9:01 PM Author: overrated sinister fortuitous meteor institution 5 min mile is nearly olympic-level athlete (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104127) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 12:44 PM Author: snowy insanely creepy pisswyrm market I can do a 6-min mile and recover like normal. I did 5:30 mile (on a treadmill) and was done for the day. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42107520) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 8:43 PM Author: yapping step-uncle's house hopefully they get disparate treatment pwnd if they apply the standards more favorably to women (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104062) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 9:02 PM Author: overrated sinister fortuitous meteor institution ITT: Balding men with size 38 waists who gasp for air after running 3 laps, judging ARE ARMED FORCES (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104131) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 10:29 PM Author: jet anal useless brakes reading party 34 inch waist and Im good for 5 laps around the park. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104597) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 10:50 PM Author: yapping step-uncle's house Nothing wrong w a 38 waist (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104735) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 10:17 AM Author: overrated sinister fortuitous meteor institution , he wheezed as he struggled around the local high school running track. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42106612) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 12:24 PM Author: yapping step-uncle's house Depends on make of the pants. I’m 6’2. Nobody would describe me as fat. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42107353) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 12:15 AM Author: Medicated Burgundy Resort Weed Whacker im not judging (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42105200) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 10:28 PM Author: boyish adulterous school Hopefully young white bros come to realize this country is a complete fraud and stop enlisting. Let strong women and trannies fuck around in Middle East shitholes for Israel (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104586) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 10:37 PM Author: bateful maniacal indian lodge dragon (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104649) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 12:33 PM Author: seedy internet-worthy orchestra pit Her turn! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42107428) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 12:41 PM Author: dead galvanic sneaky criminal school cafeteria tbf they cant do much worse than the current military the last two decades (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42107491) |
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Date: March 14th, 2021 10:28 PM Author: jet anal useless brakes reading party Yankeestan should surrender yesterday. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42104590) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 3:15 AM Author: Light Multi-colored Church Building Cuck Imagine if we were able to use recruiting posters like this again. We’d be unstoppable. Everything is so shitty and gay now. What male actually wants to fight for this country now?
https://imgur.com/a/XxsLm42 |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 3:59 AM Author: seedy internet-worthy orchestra pit Sex is socially constructed. No, I don't mean gender. We obviously need to play different word games, kill the patriarchy, or probably both. Then women will pass at the same rate as men. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42105785) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 4:02 AM Author: seedy internet-worthy orchestra pit Oh, by the way, they have a backup position. Physical fitness was never about war fighting preparedness. It was always about encouraging fitness that would reduce the cost of medical care and sick days (which will piss of the fat acceptance people). So it doesn't matter if the standards are different. They just need to encourage good health. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42105787) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 7:30 AM Author: Flatulent brunch preventive strike this guy gets it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42106100) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 10:17 AM Author: overrated sinister fortuitous meteor institution (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42106614) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 4:25 AM Author: Wonderful love of her life I don't remember the details of the navy boot camp physical fitness test that I went through in orlando about 45 years ago, other than we ran about a mile or something like that, timed, some pushups, and we had to do a number of pullups, and there was some sort of obstacle test....jumping over tires and swinging on ropes....lots of fun to be had...totally fun stuff for teenage doods...
no leg tuck test, as I recall...wtf is that?
there were however a couple of guys who had problems with the pullups, as i recall... I don't remember whether they had to drop back in training for a few weeks in order to get through the test...
there were zero noticeably fat guys in the navy boot camp back in the seventies...well, one guy was a little plump in my boot camp section...
but everyone else was more or less in shape back then...of course the fitness test was performed near the end of the two-month boot camp anyway, and in order to get through the boot camp, you had to get through two months of almost daily marching and drill exercises carrying a Enfield rifle that had the barrel filled with lead...in the orlando summer heat...
I was actually in the best shape of my life at the end of the navy boot camp...could dunk a basketball...
the females were completely separate from the men in navy boot camp, so I have no idea how they did...
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Date: March 15th, 2021 12:33 PM Author: jet anal useless brakes reading party Real problem for women in the service is all the major militaries are moving up to larger caliber rounds to get around ever better body armor. Even a faggot round like the new 6.8mm which only has 20-25% more recoil over the 5.56 will create problems for chicks but in the case of the 6.8 the real issue is it will make already heavy packs even heavier. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42107429) |
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Date: March 15th, 2021 12:37 PM Author: seedy internet-worthy orchestra pit Has a "High Caliber Sexism" article been written yet? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4787419&forum_id=2#42107460) |