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Apple lawyer ordered to pay SEC $1.15M fine for insider trading

Former Apple director of corporate law Gene Levoff has been ...
White magical liquid oxygen institution
  07/04/24
Inhouse counsel just casually selling $10m of stock, it's NB...
electric pozpig gas station
  07/04/24
"I prevent insider trading, that's what's so insane abo...
White magical liquid oxygen institution
  07/04/24
guess religion
electric pozpig gas station
  07/04/24
Joseph Levoff was born on July 7, 1930 in Shanghai, China. H...
electric pozpig gas station
  07/04/24
Looks like a Batman villain, pretty bad ass actually ht...
White magical liquid oxygen institution
  07/04/24
link dont work but this does: https://apple.fandom.com/wiki...
electric pozpig gas station
  07/04/24
?? pretty easy to get a 4.0 @ a csu
Doobsian federal parlor
  07/04/24
Firm lawyers have no idea how lucrative inhouse tech can be
razzle range toaster
  07/04/24
It’s insane this dude probably is worth 30-50m but ris...
razzle range toaster
  07/04/24
https://www.sec.gov/about/division-office-directors/gurbir-g...
electric pozpig gas station
  07/04/24
Get his ass, Gurbir boy
razzle range toaster
  07/04/24
Looks like an antisemite if I ever saw one
Ruby tanning salon rigor
  07/04/24
cr gurbir got his ass
180 theater stage regret
  07/04/24
"I have a doubt!"
White magical liquid oxygen institution
  07/04/24
Goddamn heroic turd bros are giving kikes hell lately
Cracking Cuckold
  07/04/24
Yeah, the Turds are like wild cards, popping up randomly, ch...
White magical liquid oxygen institution
  07/04/24
the jews fear the turban guy
Mauve racy box office
  07/04/24
more like Goybir amirite
plum motley mental disorder
  07/04/24
Hehehe. I do his job at my company. Compliance owns the insi...
Shaky Marketing Idea
  07/04/24
Demoted to Attorney General of Israel
electric pozpig gas station
  07/04/24
The dude can already retire. He’s selling blocks of 10...
razzle range toaster
  07/04/24
lol @ this 5'4 retard compliance monkey trying to seem like ...
Boyish lettuce jew
  07/04/24
...
White magical liquid oxygen institution
  07/04/24
...
razzle-dazzle overrated affirmative action
  07/04/24
...
multi-colored cheese-eating water buffalo
  07/04/24
...
buck-toothed stead
  07/04/24
...
Gay apoplectic church
  07/04/24
lol @ DBG nuking Are Reptile
contagious location codepig
  07/04/24
...
plum motley mental disorder
  07/04/24
Ouch
carmine place of business
  07/04/24
If he chaired their disclosure controls committee that means...
Shaky Marketing Idea
  07/04/24
do you think a lot of guys come in at the #1 spot and never ...
180 theater stage regret
  07/04/24
Depends on the company but it's not unusual for the GC to no...
Shaky Marketing Idea
  07/04/24
ty, i've got a buddy at a midcap pubco like you describe: de...
180 theater stage regret
  07/04/24
Financial cos have large numbers of reporting segments these...
Shaky Marketing Idea
  07/04/24
ty, that's interesting. wdm "product filings" lik...
180 theater stage regret
  07/04/24
Yes, among other things. SPACs too. This guy did a SPAC for ...
Shaky Marketing Idea
  07/05/24
ty got it. and yeah SPACs are sure there own little lawyer-...
180 theater stage regret
  07/05/24
this guy seems to be the epitome of GC greed, lack of morali...
Glittery hyperventilating laser beams center
  07/04/24
you can just say that he’s Jewish
Cracking Cuckold
  07/04/24
Weird to me that no one ITT has jumped to the obvious conclu...
thriller dilemma coffee pot
  07/05/24
how does the head SEC compliance lawyer not spend a night in...
Irradiated useless kitty cat
  07/04/24
can anyone find out who the sentencing judge was? tyia.
Irradiated useless kitty cat
  07/04/24
http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&mc=3...
Angry ticket booth idiot
  07/04/24
Cr people getting remote tips go to jail but this dude is dr...
razzle range toaster
  07/04/24
MO. SSAD.
thriller dilemma coffee pot
  07/05/24
Here I am prodding goycattle plebs for $5-10K retainers when...
Angry ticket booth idiot
  07/04/24
So the guy in charge of preventing insider trading does insi...
odious brunch friendly grandma
  07/04/24
the sentencing judge was a Republican Italian-American in NJ...
Irradiated useless kitty cat
  07/04/24
Bada bing bada boom
White magical liquid oxygen institution
  07/04/24
Martha Stewart incredulous, fuming
ocher vibrant stock car set
  07/04/24
So let me get this straight. If I insider trade and get ca...
Orange underhanded space
  07/04/24
You’d literally be retarded not to inside trade. There...
odious brunch friendly grandma
  07/04/24
This story really doesn’t make sense. He’s the h...
twinkling toilet seat
  07/04/24
He was giving insider info to very (((powerful people))) who...
obsidian lascivious messiness people who are hurt
  07/04/24
Probably drugs or alcohol problems
Tantric generalized bond library
  07/05/24


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 5:14 AM
Author: White magical liquid oxygen institution

Former Apple director of corporate law Gene Levoff has been ordered to pay the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission $1.15 million for insider trading, reports Reuters. Late last year, Levoff was sentenced to four years of probation and a fine, avoiding a possible two-year jail sentence.

At the time, the fine had not been determined, but the judge presiding over the case handed down a ruling on Tuesday. The judge said that Levoff's violations were "especially egregious" even though he had not been "living excessively."

At Apple, Levoff's role included making sure Apple employees were compliant with the company's insider trading policies, which is why the judge decided that his violation was of particular concern.

Because Levoff was meant to prevent insider trading at Apple, he had access to Apple's earnings results before they were made available to the public. He used the information that he learned to buy Apple shares ahead of better-than-expected results, and to sell shares when there were weaker-than-expected earnings. Levoff's shady stock dealings earned him approximately $277,000, while helping him avoid losses of around $377,000.

In July 2015, for example, Levoff knew Apple would not meet analysts' third quarter estimates for iPhone sales, so he sold $10 million in Apple stock between July 17 and July 21, which is when Apple's earnings information went live. After the announcement, Apple stock dropped more than four precent.

Levoff worked at Apple from 2011 to 2018, but he abused his insider information between 2011 and 2016. Apple fired him in September 2018 after the authorities contacted the company about Levoff's dealings. In June 2022, Levoff pleaded guilty to six counts of securities fraud for insider trading. Federal prosecutors pushed for jail time to deter other corporate executives from insider trading, but the judge did not feel that it was necessary because Levoff was fired and is no longer be able to practice law.

https://www.macrumors.com/2024/07/02/former-apple-lawyer-sec-fine/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808287)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 5:16 AM
Author: electric pozpig gas station

Inhouse counsel just casually selling $10m of stock, it's NBD

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808289)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 5:17 AM
Author: White magical liquid oxygen institution

"I prevent insider trading, that's what's so insane about this."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808290)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 5:22 AM
Author: electric pozpig gas station

guess religion

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808294)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 5:23 AM
Author: electric pozpig gas station

Joseph Levoff was born on July 7, 1930 in Shanghai, China. His father was born in Manchuria while his mother came from Siberia in Russia. Levoff grew up in Shanghai's French Concession and went to the Shanghai Jewish School. In 1949, Levoff and his family left Shanghai for Israel. In Israel, Levoff served in the air force for three years before being honorably discharged. After leaving Israel in 1964, he moved to Los Angeles, and became involved with the restaurant business. Levoff was a member of the American Far Eastern Society, which consisted of former residents of China, like himself. He was president of this group for nearly ten years until he moved back to Israel. The collection contains a number of photographs and photographs albums documenting his family's experiences in Shanghai and Israel, as well as some print materials related to Levoff's life in Shanghai.

BackgroundJoseph Levoff was born on July 7, 1930 in Shanghai, China. His father was born in Manchuria, and his mother came from Siberia, Russia. Levoff grew up in Shanghai's French Concession, and went to the Shanghai Jewish School. He was also part of the Jewish Club and the Foreign YMCA. The latter was where he spent most of his recreactional time socializing and participating in numerous sporting events.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808295)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 5:25 AM
Author: White magical liquid oxygen institution

Looks like a Batman villain, pretty bad ass actually

https://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/gene-daniel-levoff-a-former-lawyer-in-charge-of-apple-inc-s-news-photo/1126275489

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808296)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 5:29 AM
Author: electric pozpig gas station

link dont work but this does:

https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/Gene_Levoff

gorgeous guy, how the furk he go from cal state northridge to standard law jfc jew connections



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808299)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 8:13 AM
Author: Doobsian federal parlor

?? pretty easy to get a 4.0 @ a csu

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808419)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 5:41 AM
Author: razzle range toaster

Firm lawyers have no idea how lucrative inhouse tech can be

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808304)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 5:43 AM
Author: razzle range toaster

It’s insane this dude probably is worth 30-50m but risked his job and jail time to save 500k or whatever. He didn’t seem to even use proxies to buy and sell for him. How did he think that wouldn’t be noticed

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808305)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 5:46 AM
Author: electric pozpig gas station

https://www.sec.gov/about/division-office-directors/gurbir-grewal#:~:text=Gurbir%20Grewal%20is%20the%20Director%20of%20the%20SEC's%20Division%20of%20Enforcement.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808306)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 5:48 AM
Author: razzle range toaster

Get his ass, Gurbir boy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808308)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 7:52 AM
Author: Ruby tanning salon rigor

Looks like an antisemite if I ever saw one

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808374)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 10:25 AM
Author: 180 theater stage regret

cr gurbir got his ass

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808647)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 10:28 AM
Author: White magical liquid oxygen institution

"I have a doubt!"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808660)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 10:34 AM
Author: Cracking Cuckold

Goddamn heroic turd bros are giving kikes hell lately

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808672)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 10:56 AM
Author: White magical liquid oxygen institution

Yeah, the Turds are like wild cards, popping up randomly, changing things around.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808732)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 10:38 AM
Author: Mauve racy box office

the jews fear the turban guy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808682)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 12:37 PM
Author: plum motley mental disorder

more like Goybir amirite

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808989)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 6:20 AM
Author: Shaky Marketing Idea

Hehehe. I do his job at my company. Compliance owns the insider trading policy. I also do the 10b5-1 plans for our EOs and directors. Dude is a clown. You do this shit long enough and you lateral into a GC spot at a smaller reporting company and make $2 million a year doing jack shit. Instead he blew up his life....

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808316)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 6:41 AM
Author: electric pozpig gas station

Demoted to Attorney General of Israel

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808324)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 6:48 AM
Author: razzle range toaster

The dude can already retire. He’s selling blocks of 10m stock. I think he’ll be ok.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808326)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 8:15 AM
Author: Boyish lettuce jew

lol @ this 5'4 retard compliance monkey trying to seem like he's the equivalent of some apple guy making $50M/yr

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808430)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 10:17 AM
Author: White magical liquid oxygen institution



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808622)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 10:20 AM
Author: razzle-dazzle overrated affirmative action



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808628)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 10:33 AM
Author: multi-colored cheese-eating water buffalo



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808669)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 10:40 AM
Author: buck-toothed stead



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808686)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 11:38 AM
Author: Gay apoplectic church



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808867)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 12:35 PM
Author: contagious location codepig

lol @ DBG nuking Are Reptile

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808987)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 12:38 PM
Author: plum motley mental disorder



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808991)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 6:49 PM
Author: carmine place of business

Ouch

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47809977)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 6:29 AM
Author: Shaky Marketing Idea

If he chaired their disclosure controls committee that means he ran their 10-K and 10-Q process, wrote the MD&A disclosures, oversaw their SOX process from the legal end, probably hand held their Board audit committee reporting and ran roughshod over their compliance function. Dude would have been right under the GC and would have been the GCs point guy to the CFO while the GC himself would own the CEO relationship. Basically -- the number 2 guy in legal gets the disclosure controls job usually.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808317)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 10:27 AM
Author: 180 theater stage regret

do you think a lot of guys come in at the #1 spot and never have to do this #2 job?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808658)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 11:50 AM
Author: Shaky Marketing Idea

Depends on the company but it's not unusual for the GC to not have this experience. This job requires a securities background that GCs often lack if they came up from litigation or IP or some other practice area. Places where the GCs big concern is mountains of lit or IP and not the public company shit will have a GC who knows only the minimum about this stuff. In finance though -- this number 2 dude will more often than not be groomed to become the GC.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808888)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 6:16 PM
Author: 180 theater stage regret

ty, i've got a buddy at a midcap pubco like you describe: dedicated corp sec function and then a separate GC. why do you say finance is like you describe, the q's and k's are seen as extra important or something? or just industry practice that the corp sec guy is usually #2?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47809898)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 7:17 PM
Author: Shaky Marketing Idea

Financial cos have large numbers of reporting segments these days so the Ks and Q's are a leviathan undertaking from a disclosures perspective because you have so many businesses and materiality questions around each and you have to understand each business. But it's not the Ks and Qs that make this guy at a finance shop so important -- financial cos have product offerings and file S-3s and other filings. In finance this dude would oversee these product filings. At an Apple this can be a less senior role cause they are not doing product filings. In finance the corp sec function would either role up to this securities guy or up to the GC depending on board politics but usually the corp sec would be this guys direct report -- it would not be this dude himself. That's a smaller job but too time consuming for someone this senior to be doing the whole thing outside of the audit committee because those fuckers have to approve the inclusion of your audited financials in your K so you need to hand hold the AC chair a bit.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47810055)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 9:25 PM
Author: 180 theater stage regret

ty, that's interesting. wdm "product filings" like getting a new type of structured note etf registered?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47810412)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 5th, 2024 6:07 AM
Author: Shaky Marketing Idea

Yes, among other things. SPACs too. This guy did a SPAC for Apple. Anything that would trigger its own S-3 or S-8 or even its own S-1.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47811104)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 5th, 2024 10:33 AM
Author: 180 theater stage regret

ty got it. and yeah SPACs are sure there own little lawyer-heavy, fee-heavy world

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47811630)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 10:31 AM
Author: Glittery hyperventilating laser beams center

this guy seems to be the epitome of GC greed, lack of morality, and stupidity. already has $10M in stock but it’s just. not. enough. he didn’t even do it through a third party. and of course he ends up near the top of one of the biggest companies in the world.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808663)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 10:36 AM
Author: Cracking Cuckold

you can just say that he’s Jewish

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808678)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 5th, 2024 11:03 AM
Author: thriller dilemma coffee pot

Weird to me that no one ITT has jumped to the obvious conclusion that he’s Mossad. You know what’s cooler than $10M? Setting up a Caribbean sex island and using it to extort the rich and powerful in America.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47811735)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 10:58 AM
Author: Irradiated useless kitty cat

how does the head SEC compliance lawyer not spend a night in jail for that??? lol. he's got great lawyers, friends in high places, or the right judge.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808739)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 10:59 AM
Author: Irradiated useless kitty cat

can anyone find out who the sentencing judge was? tyia.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808742)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 10:59 AM
Author: Angry ticket booth idiot

http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&mc=31&forum_id=2#47808678

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808744)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 11:12 AM
Author: razzle range toaster

Cr people getting remote tips go to jail but this dude is drinking from the fire hose at the top and is even charged with protecting the info and he just gets probation? The monetary penalty wasn’t even bad. Lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808794)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 5th, 2024 11:03 AM
Author: thriller dilemma coffee pot

MO. SSAD.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47811738)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 11:03 AM
Author: Angry ticket booth idiot

Here I am prodding goycattle plebs for $5-10K retainers when I could be casually trading $10 million in stock on insider information without even bothering to use an intermediary at the risk of a slap on the risk. At least I don’t have to report to a massah

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808758)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 11:55 AM
Author: odious brunch friendly grandma

So the guy in charge of preventing insider trading does insider trading. His penalty is probation and a fine of 3% his NW.

So who the fuck do we put in jail for this? Why not execute this asshole and a few others, you might actually discourage this shit.

Prediction: they’ll break the mold and find jail time for roaring kitty.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808893)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 12:10 PM
Author: Irradiated useless kitty cat

the sentencing judge was a Republican Italian-American in NJ. not what i expected.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47808940)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 8:33 PM
Author: White magical liquid oxygen institution

Bada bing bada boom

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47810272)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 8:20 PM
Author: ocher vibrant stock car set

Martha Stewart incredulous, fuming

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47810240)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 8:28 PM
Author: Orange underhanded space

So let me get this straight. If I insider trade and get caught, I have to pay double what I made/avoided in losses and don’t do any time?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47810260)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 10:58 PM
Author: odious brunch friendly grandma

You’d literally be retarded not to inside trade. There’s giant positive EV.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47810624)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 9:54 PM
Author: twinkling toilet seat

This story really doesn’t make sense. He’s the head of insider trading compliance at one of the largest public companies in the world, and yet he did the insider trading through his own, personal brokerage account? Sold $10 million of shares in the two or three days right before the bad earnings release?

That’s like a cop committing a murder and then leaving the murder weapon at the scene, covered with fingerprints, and wrapped up in a photocopy of his driver’s license. So we conclude that this guy wanted to get caught right? Why?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47810505)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 4th, 2024 11:09 PM
Author: obsidian lascivious messiness people who are hurt

He was giving insider info to very (((powerful people))) who supposedly had his back (and actually did to a big extent)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47810643)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 5th, 2024 10:36 AM
Author: Tantric generalized bond library

Probably drugs or alcohol problems

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5550233&forum_id=2#47811643)