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Fallout is GTA for smart people. Hth.

...
floppy corner azn
  09/09/13
GTA V will be the greatest game of all time hth.
scarlet startled crotch stag film
  09/09/13
It doesn't appeal to me at all. It probably won't be t...
floppy corner azn
  09/09/13
are you retarded?
violet state dopamine
  09/09/13
GTA games always have shitty stories and the gameplay is nev...
floppy corner azn
  09/09/13
San Andreas had a fantastic story IMO.
scarlet startled crotch stag film
  09/09/13
I thought it was boring and shitty. I will give GTA this tho...
floppy corner azn
  09/09/13
Shitty by what standard? Obviously San andreas' story is ...
scarlet startled crotch stag film
  09/09/13
"s but it's as good as anything in Western game" ...
floppy corner azn
  09/09/13
why are RPGs the only metric you are can compare this too? G...
Magenta dead den
  09/09/13
Action games should have good stories too, so I'm not sure w...
floppy corner azn
  09/09/13
did not say that they "didnt care" about the story...
Magenta dead den
  09/09/13
I guess we just disagree about the importance of story in vi...
floppy corner azn
  09/09/13
I think story is important for RPGs, but I would never say s...
Magenta dead den
  09/09/13
cr. GTA IV has the most variety of missions of any GTA game ...
Motley Aqua Sweet Tailpipe Trailer Park
  09/09/13
I skipped all the cut scenes so when I had to make a choice ...
black university persian
  09/09/13
I do think that games like FIFA are in a lower tier
floppy corner azn
  09/09/13
lol at you
Magenta dead den
  09/09/13
Lol. JFC. I guess you would need someone to play with to...
violet state dopamine
  09/09/13
Calm down man, you seem like you are MAF that we have differ...
floppy corner azn
  09/09/13
Skyrim is boring as shit, but real RPGs like mass effect or ...
alcoholic cracking resort round eye
  09/09/13
I thought GTA IV had too much story actually, I get bored wa...
azure arrogant market fat ankles
  09/09/13
lol @ the "immersive sandbox." You can play pool a...
black university persian
  09/09/13
GTA IV is the number one game of all time on metacritic. ...
greedy cobalt lodge
  09/09/13
I'm not sure why you think that's a good argument, but okay.
floppy corner azn
  09/09/13
"It probably won't be top 20 though."
greedy cobalt lodge
  09/09/13
"I think that everyone else accepts metacritic as a ran...
floppy corner azn
  09/09/13
lol
Magenta dead den
  09/09/13
pwned
violet state dopamine
  09/09/13
If it's anything like the others it will get boring right ar...
black university persian
  09/09/13
To be fair, I actually agree that GTA games largely get b...
scarlet startled crotch stag film
  09/09/13
tbf, Vice City holds its own
greedy cobalt lodge
  09/09/13
this is retarded, they're very different games, both great
Magenta dead den
  09/09/13
...
Bellevue therapy dog tp (retired on 11/11/26)
  06/25/26
Overrated POS the real deal this fall will be the new X-C...
Provocative french chef cuckoldry
  09/09/13
Are you referring to X-Com Declassified? Because it is SPS (...
violet state dopamine
  09/09/13
no, it's expansion to Enemies unknown, its called enemies wi...
Provocative french chef cuckoldry
  09/09/13
(typical clitdicked gook)
effete point factory reset button
  09/09/13
Smart people play EU.
concupiscible peach stage queen of the night
  09/09/13
Lulz, EU is an alright turn based strategy game
violet state dopamine
  09/09/13
its the GOAT grand strategy game
Magenta dead den
  09/09/13
Eh, I would have to say the original Rome Total War is
violet state dopamine
  09/09/13
I would have to say you are wrong
Magenta dead den
  09/09/13
You're done here, there, everywhere.
concupiscible peach stage queen of the night
  09/09/13
what is so good about EU
violet state dopamine
  09/09/13
It's the potus of games. Go back to Mortal Kombat bro.
concupiscible peach stage queen of the night
  09/09/13
wtf is EU
flushed curious meetinghouse sound barrier
  09/09/13
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_Universalis
floppy corner azn
  09/09/13
(retard)
effete point factory reset button
  09/09/13
why does op keep making these shitty threads
Motley Aqua Sweet Tailpipe Trailer Park
  09/09/13
lol at the idea that your taste in video games has to do wit...
effete point factory reset button
  09/09/13
will there be a new fallout? that's the only video game i ca...
beady-eyed magical stock car
  09/09/13
...
gaped step-uncle's house
  09/18/13
lol at you manchilds playing video games
Lemon box office
  09/09/13
I'm sure you're doing much more prestigious things with your...
Puce Corn Cake Bawdyhouse
  09/10/13
biglaw, drinking, fucking, poasting
Lemon box office
  09/10/13
cr
Puce Corn Cake Bawdyhouse
  09/10/13
no hobbies?
Magenta dead den
  09/10/13
cardio, violent sports, cooking for girls before I fuck them
Lemon box office
  09/10/13
nothing creative at all? im not saying you should pick up ga...
Magenta dead den
  09/10/13
how is gaming creative? I cook, and that certainly has more ...
Lemon box office
  09/10/13
im not saying gaming is creative at all, its not. i meant so...
Magenta dead den
  09/10/13
I write all day for a living. fuck that. I want to spend my ...
Lemon box office
  09/10/13
you can do all of these things and still sustain a hobby
Magenta dead den
  09/10/13
Ever watch some tv or a movie?
Puce Corn Cake Bawdyhouse
  09/10/13
at gym or while cooking. otherwise too passive for me
Lemon box office
  09/10/13
More like GTA is a smart person's Saints Row.
Puce Corn Cake Bawdyhouse
  09/10/13
I enjoyed both I found fallout to be the more intelligent ga...
mahogany psychic space
  09/10/13


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 8:45 PM
Author: floppy corner azn



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022442)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 8:49 PM
Author: scarlet startled crotch stag film

GTA V will be the greatest game of all time hth.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022472)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 8:51 PM
Author: floppy corner azn

It doesn't appeal to me at all.

It probably won't be top 20 though.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022492)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 8:54 PM
Author: violet state dopamine

are you retarded?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022522)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 8:57 PM
Author: floppy corner azn

GTA games always have shitty stories and the gameplay is never really that fun. Although I haven't played GTA V, I feel like they made it too much like past GTA games rather than trying to move beyond them and take the series to the next level. They should have dropped stuff like the wanted meter and made it more like Fallout/Skyrim. The amount of money they spend on this game is staggering and that shows in the graphics, but graphics can only take you so far.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022553)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:00 PM
Author: scarlet startled crotch stag film

San Andreas had a fantastic story IMO.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022578)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:04 PM
Author: floppy corner azn

I thought it was boring and shitty. I will give GTA this though, the voice acting really is second to none. I feel like they could do amazing things with all the money they spend on these games, but the gameplay is always boring and repetitive. It's a shame really.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022612)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:08 PM
Author: scarlet startled crotch stag film

Shitty by what standard?

Obviously San andreas' story is nothing compared to old Squaresoft RPGs but it's as good as anything in Western games (which I'll admit tend to be pretty weak story wise in general but the Japanese aren't making anything on the level of Chrono Trigger anymore so the standard is different).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022655)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:09 PM
Author: floppy corner azn

"s but it's as good as anything in Western game"

Play Planescape Torment or Baldur's Gate and then get back to me.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022662)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:13 PM
Author: Magenta dead den

why are RPGs the only metric you are can compare this too? GTA is an sandbox action game, the story is should be an after-thought at best

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022710)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:15 PM
Author: floppy corner azn

Action games should have good stories too, so I'm not sure what your point is. I also don't know why Rockstar would spend insane amounts of money on all this voice acting if they didn't care about the story.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022723)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:22 PM
Author: Magenta dead den

did not say that they "didnt care" about the story, obviously, but the emphasis is not primarily on story like it is an a RPG. no one plays GTA for the story (unlike most RPGs), they do it to go fuck some stuff up and play exciting/fun missions in an immersive sandbox where you're given the freedom to do whatever you want and crazy stuff happens frequently. You are missing the entire point of this game, and its not surprising that you dont understand its rampant popularity and critical acclaim.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022778)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:24 PM
Author: floppy corner azn

I guess we just disagree about the importance of story in video games. I think it's one of the most important elements, and having a bad story really holds a game back imho. In any case, GTA also has shitty and repetitive gameplay. It gives you the freedom to wander around killing people, not the freedom to explore and do interesting things (including killing people). It's clearly worse than games like Skyrim.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022804)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:30 PM
Author: Magenta dead den

I think story is important for RPGs, but I would never say story is important in every game. By this metric, FIFA would be unplayable

skyrim gets repetitive eventually, "Go to the town of Bumblefuck and retrieve my buttplug from a locked box in the nun's quarters in exchange for the key to Lord Byron's wardrobe" gets old after about 40~hours. GTAIV (which you haven't even played) has a large variance of missions and from what ive seen of GTAV, it has even more variance.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022839)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:32 PM
Author: Motley Aqua Sweet Tailpipe Trailer Park

cr. GTA IV has the most variety of missions of any GTA game i've played. the racing sequences alone were more interesting than any actual racing game. there were also multiple points at which you're asked to make a decision that critically impacts the game's narrative. the op has literally no fucking clue what he's babbling about.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022853)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 10:05 PM
Author: black university persian

I skipped all the cut scenes so when I had to make a choice I had no idea wtf I was doing.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24023141)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:32 PM
Author: floppy corner azn

I do think that games like FIFA are in a lower tier

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022855)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:33 PM
Author: Magenta dead den

lol at you

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022863)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:39 PM
Author: violet state dopamine

Lol. JFC.

I guess you would need someone to play with to truly enjoy the game.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022898)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:40 PM
Author: floppy corner azn

Calm down man, you seem like you are MAF that we have different tastes in video games.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022907)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 11:19 PM
Author: alcoholic cracking resort round eye

Skyrim is boring as shit, but real RPGs like mass effect or baldur's gate are far superior.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24023712)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 11:11 PM
Author: azure arrogant market fat ankles

I thought GTA IV had too much story actually, I get bored watching long cut scenes, just want to play.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24023650)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 10:51 PM
Author: black university persian

lol @ the "immersive sandbox." You can play pool and watch Katt Williams do standbox. BFD

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24023510)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:04 PM
Author: greedy cobalt lodge

GTA IV is the number one game of all time on metacritic.

Only one game can dislodge it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022618)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:06 PM
Author: floppy corner azn

I'm not sure why you think that's a good argument, but okay.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022633)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:07 PM
Author: greedy cobalt lodge

"It probably won't be top 20 though."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022641)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:10 PM
Author: floppy corner azn

"I think that everyone else accepts metacritic as a ranking system"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022672)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:10 PM
Author: Magenta dead den

lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022685)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:10 PM
Author: violet state dopamine

pwned

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022680)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 8:56 PM
Author: black university persian

If it's anything like the others it will get boring right around the same time you realize you've heard all the shit on the radio. They should have a feature where the radio gets updated online with new material.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022540)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 8:59 PM
Author: scarlet startled crotch stag film

To be fair,

I actually agree that GTA games largely get by on a certain novelty factor and tend to become stale as fuck when it wears off, but V looks like it's going to have so much new shit going on, and such compelling characters, that this installment will buck the trend and be the series' GOAT.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022569)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:06 PM
Author: greedy cobalt lodge

tbf,

Vice City holds its own

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022627)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:07 PM
Author: Magenta dead den

this is retarded, they're very different games, both great

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022636)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 25th, 2026 4:17 PM
Author: Bellevue therapy dog tp (retired on 11/11/26)



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#49962751)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:18 PM
Author: Provocative french chef cuckoldry

Overrated POS

the real deal this fall will be the new X-COM expansion.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022746)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:20 PM
Author: violet state dopamine

Are you referring to X-Com Declassified? Because it is SPS (and I like X-Com enemy unknown)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022761)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:23 PM
Author: Provocative french chef cuckoldry

no, it's expansion to Enemies unknown, its called enemies within. it's gonna be siiick:

http://xcom.wikia.com/wiki/XCOM:_Enemy_Within

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022790)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 10:27 PM
Author: effete point factory reset button

(typical clitdicked gook)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24023339)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:19 PM
Author: concupiscible peach stage queen of the night

Smart people play EU.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022754)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:21 PM
Author: violet state dopamine

Lulz, EU is an alright turn based strategy game

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022769)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:22 PM
Author: Magenta dead den

its the GOAT grand strategy game

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022782)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:23 PM
Author: violet state dopamine

Eh, I would have to say the original Rome Total War is

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022786)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:24 PM
Author: Magenta dead den

I would have to say you are wrong

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022805)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:25 PM
Author: concupiscible peach stage queen of the night

You're done here, there, everywhere.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022810)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:26 PM
Author: violet state dopamine

what is so good about EU

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022819)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:22 PM
Author: concupiscible peach stage queen of the night

It's the potus of games. Go back to Mortal Kombat bro.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022783)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:24 PM
Author: flushed curious meetinghouse sound barrier

wtf is EU

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022798)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:25 PM
Author: floppy corner azn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_Universalis

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022813)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 10:27 PM
Author: effete point factory reset button

(retard)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24023341)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 9:20 PM
Author: Motley Aqua Sweet Tailpipe Trailer Park

why does op keep making these shitty threads

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24022756)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 10:28 PM
Author: effete point factory reset button

lol at the idea that your taste in video games has to do with how "smart" you are. and lol at the idea that GTA isnt the only video game series worth playing in existence. kill your self you clitdicked virginal chink.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24023349)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 11:17 PM
Author: beady-eyed magical stock car

will there be a new fallout? that's the only video game i care about.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24023695)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 18th, 2013 1:05 AM
Author: gaped step-uncle's house



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24069371)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 9th, 2013 11:36 PM
Author: Lemon box office

lol at you manchilds playing video games

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24023846)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 10th, 2013 12:01 AM
Author: Puce Corn Cake Bawdyhouse

I'm sure you're doing much more prestigious things with your time.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24024009)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 10th, 2013 12:02 AM
Author: Lemon box office

biglaw, drinking, fucking, poasting

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24024017)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 10th, 2013 12:04 AM
Author: Puce Corn Cake Bawdyhouse

cr

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24024034)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 10th, 2013 12:04 AM
Author: Magenta dead den

no hobbies?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24024036)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 10th, 2013 12:05 AM
Author: Lemon box office

cardio, violent sports, cooking for girls before I fuck them

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24024046)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 10th, 2013 12:07 AM
Author: Magenta dead den

nothing creative at all? im not saying you should pick up gaming, but try to expand your horizons a little bit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24024068)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 10th, 2013 12:09 AM
Author: Lemon box office

how is gaming creative? I cook, and that certainly has more creative value than little basement boys manipulating pixels. also read a shitton, though that isn't really creative

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24024077)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 10th, 2013 12:11 AM
Author: Magenta dead den

im not saying gaming is creative at all, its not. i meant something creative like writing or music performance. i feel like then you'd have a better appreciation for a hobby with limited utility

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24024096)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 10th, 2013 12:13 AM
Author: Lemon box office

I write all day for a living. fuck that. I want to spend my time fucking, eating, drinking or creating with my hands (even if it is just fingering some stupid NYC girl to orgasm)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24024118)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 10th, 2013 12:18 AM
Author: Magenta dead den

you can do all of these things and still sustain a hobby

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24024165)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 10th, 2013 12:13 AM
Author: Puce Corn Cake Bawdyhouse

Ever watch some tv or a movie?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24024123)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 10th, 2013 12:15 AM
Author: Lemon box office

at gym or while cooking. otherwise too passive for me

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24024140)



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Date: September 10th, 2013 12:01 AM
Author: Puce Corn Cake Bawdyhouse

More like GTA is a smart person's Saints Row.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24024014)



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Date: September 10th, 2013 12:04 AM
Author: mahogany psychic space

I enjoyed both I found fallout to be the more intelligent game. Its story is a subtle and at times satirical take on American wartime culture. The characters are surprisingly deep and it's hard for player not to feel empathy for those many lost souls that you encounter in those barren wastelands. Some of the little stories that emerge from the sidequests were surprisingly clever.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2358555&forum_id=2...#24024032)