Really drives home for me how matriarchal our society is. Something bad happens and we assume the "state" has the muscles and weapons to keep us safe. "Call the government!"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48051350)

Replies like those from Cowstack and Mainlining engage with this idea, adding nuance about the historical absence of police forces. Others, like Candy Ride, inquire about the legal systems in Rome, questioning how criminal enforcement functioned without a police force. This leads to discussions about private enforcement and punishments in Rome, with references to practices like slavery for certain crimes or extreme penalties such as crucifixion.

The thread also briefly touches on wealth disparity, with 718-662-5970 musing about how wealth necessitated hiring security, and what that might have meant for the rich of ancient Rome. Some poasters, like A Technologically Advanced Pontiac Firebird, discuss how Rome's violence and political unrest prior to Caesar's rule shaped power dynamics, while Lionel Tiger takes a more light-hearted approach with questions about Roman life, such as their sexual practices.

The thread becomes more eclectic with AZNgirl throwing her panties at Pope in Asia commenting on cultural differences in the need for policing, stating that in certain societies, conflict is avoided without police presence, particularly contrasting Asia with Anglo nations. This prompts pushback from other poasters regarding her praise of China, which is viewed as a police state.

Overall, the conversation offers a blend of historical reflection, cultural comparison, and playful banter typical of AutoAdmit threads.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48052915)

Completely different world.

Your relationship to your "possessions" and dignity is direct. You are how you defend yourself.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48051372)

"well at this level, I dont stand out much, and I can basically defend most of the shit I have on my own. At that level, Im a much more obvious target and I now have to hire some security - and hope theyre trustworthy."

It would require that rich people have some audacity and balls. (And I dont mean the super rich, well connected, old family, my brother is a consul, my father in a law a tribune). I mean, lolyer types who are coming up in the world.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48052041)

there were wild punishments for various crimes (put in bag with venomous snakes, crucifixion) and massive juries with 50+ jurors. There were courts of appeal, etc.

But I dont know how you could get a criminal defendant to court if you did not have the money and manpower to drag him there. Maybe your friends and neighbors helped. I expect if you had that kind of social network, you just dealt with the criminal on your own.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48052403)

Faggy WASPs were horrified. "You must rely on our shitty legal system."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48051379)

There’s a really good book called The Storm Before The Storm that details the exact mechanics of how physical power was wielded before Caeser and how it was used to grab state power. It’s a little hyperbolic to say that our modern political violence is the same, but it definitely comes from the same human urges and tactics. It’s just that our State is so much more powerful today than the Roman state ever was.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48051540)

Have you read it? The book itself is solid. It’s only the reviews that have been like “THIS BOOK PROVES TRUMP IS THE NEXT DICTATOR!?!?!”

It really helped fill in some of the gaps on how things actually worked day to day and gave me a deeper understanding for my next reread of Plutarch.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48052011)

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/e0m28u/in_the_storm_before_the_storm_mike_duncan_makes/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48054453)

its only in anglo and nigga countries really this doesnt work.

its basically culture but anglos dont fathom this, they think everything must be policed which is why anglo shitholes are all police states like australia

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48051564)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48056889)

Dio was most likely cribbing from the death of Manius Aquillius who probably really WAS executed that way by Mithridates.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48052098)

It’s southern Italy.

There *was* a police force on every block. Sensibly maintained by local merchants and vendors.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48052197)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48052213)

Key Points:

Historical Context of Roman Security:

The initial post by 718-662-5970 highlights that in early Rome, citizens largely relied on personal means of protection rather than a formal police force. The role of Augustus in introducing early forms of police is noted, emphasizing a shift from personal to state-based security.

Personal Responsibility and Social Dynamics:

The discussion explores how in a society without extensive state protection, individuals had to take direct responsibility for their safety and possessions. 718-662-5970 contrasts this with modern expectations where state institutions are relied upon to ensure safety.

Economic and Social Implications:

718-662-5970 further examines the implications of wealth and social status in this context. As one ascends economically, the need for personal security increases, highlighting the vulnerability of wealthy individuals who might become targets.

Criminal Justice System in Rome:

Poasters like Candy Ride and 718-662-5970 discuss Roman criminal justice, noting that while there were sophisticated laws and severe punishments, enforcement and court processes often depended on personal means or social connections.

Comparisons and Modern Reflections:

The conversation touches on comparisons between historical and modern systems of law enforcement. Senior Counsel @ Seyfarth Shaw LLP (gunneratttt) remarks on the historical absence of organized police forces and the reliance on citizens to uphold laws, contrasting this with modern attitudes toward self-defense and vigilante actions.

Cultural and Social Critiques:

AZNgirl throwing her panties at Pope in Asia introduces a controversial viewpoint, suggesting that less policing is needed in some cultures due to different social norms. This view is challenged by others, including .,.,.,..;.....,.,.,.,.,.,...,.,. and My xo friends have enriched me tremendously, who critique the idea and provide counterarguments.

Literary and Historical References:

References to works like "The Storm Before The Storm" and historical accounts by Cassius Dio provide additional layers to the discussion, exploring how historical narratives and modern interpretations can influence our understanding of past societies.

Miscellaneous Contributions:

Other posts include tangential discussions about specific Roman practices (e.g., fire departments under Crassus) and anecdotes about Roman life, adding color and context to the main discussion.

Summary of Poasters' Thoughts:

718-662-5970 presents a nuanced view of how personal responsibility and wealth impact security in historical contexts, drawing a parallel to modern societal structures.

Cowstack and Mainlining provide supportive and thought-provoking responses, appreciating the historical insights and drawing connections to contemporary issues.

Candy Ride and A Technologically Advanced Pontiac Firebird explore aspects of Roman criminal justice and societal structures, contributing factual information and analyses.

AZNgirl throwing her panties at Pope in Asia and others offer contentious viewpoints and critiques, debating cultural perspectives on policing and societal order.

The thread reveals a blend of historical analysis, personal reflection, and contemporary critique, with poasters engaging in a lively discussion about the evolution of security and social responsibility.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48053391)

even with patrons, and proto-mafia.

Fact remains if you were to walk twenty minutes to the forum, holding a purse of money, you'd have to be well aware you were on your own.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48055766)

ive read they used "water clocks" to tell time after sunset, but my overall sense is that "time" was pretty approximate for another 1800 years

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48055851)

even today, latins are shit at being anywhere when they are supposed to be

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48055869)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48055880)

*meanders into rome three years later*

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48055904)

Analysis of Key Themes:

Reflection on Historical Context of Policing:

718-662-5970's original post provides historical context on the absence of a formal police force in Caesar's Rome, emphasizing reliance on private security and individual responsibility for safety. The post suggests that this scenario reflects a more patriarchal society compared to modern dependence on state-provided security, which the poaster views as more matriarchal.

Tall Man? Yes, you can! and Mainlining respond positively, indicating that the thread is thought-provoking and engaging. Mainlining's use of the meme "The law is SACRED" connects modern skepticism toward formal legal systems with a historical perspective.

Discussion on Wealth, Security, and Social Class:

718-662-5970 elaborates on the implications of wealth and the need for security in ancient Rome, drawing a contrast between different social classes and their capacity for self-defense or hiring protection. This emphasizes how wealth influenced safety and status, and how social networks might have played a role in personal security.

Candy Ride brings up the legal system, questioning how criminal law might have functioned in such an environment, prompting 718-662-5970 to explore the mechanisms of Roman law enforcement, including informal means like bounty hunters.

Cultural Critique of Modern Society:

You're a bald man. You come from bald people and RSF make provocative statements that critique modern society's dependence on state security forces, suggesting that historically, communities managed their own security and justice without formal policing. RSF’s comment links the distrust of the mafia in American society to a discomfort with communities managing their affairs outside state control.

Humor and Satire:

Several comments, like Mainlining’s Chuck McGill reference and A Technologically Advanced Pontiac Firebird's take on Crassus' fire department, use humor and satire to engage with the topic. These comments play into AutoAdmit’s tradition of mixing serious discussions with lighter, ironic, or sarcastic commentary.

Debates on Historical Accuracy and Modern Parallels:

A Technologically Advanced Pontiac Firebird and others discuss the accuracy and biases of historical narratives, such as in the book The Storm Before The Storm, reflecting a debate on interpreting history in modern terms. There are critiques of modern political discourse using historical events as parallels.

Discussions around books, podcasts, and historical anecdotes indicate a community that enjoys deep dives into historical analysis, questioning sources and interpretations, which is typical of AutoAdmit’s intellectual discourse mixed with skepticism.

Controversial Takes and Cultural Commentary:

The exchange between AZNgirl lecturing abt Niggas at White Frat House and others reflects the often provocative and unfiltered style of AutoAdmit discussions. The comments express controversial views on race, culture, and government intervention, reinforcing the board's reputation for contentious and politically incorrect discourse.

Responses from users like .,.,.,..;.....,.,.,.,.,.,...,.,. ( ) and You're a bald man. You come from bald people challenge these perspectives, creating a back-and-forth that underscores the diversity of thought and debate on AutoAdmit, even when it takes a more inflammatory or contrarian tone.

Historical Comparisons with Modern-Day Situations:

Several users draw parallels between historical practices and modern-day issues, such as vigilante justice or community-based policing, pointing out that similar mechanisms still exist in many parts of the world. This reflects an interest in examining how historical social structures might still inform current practices, particularly in contexts lacking strong state authority.

Conclusion:

The discussion highlights the diverse range of perspectives typical on AutoAdmit, blending historical analysis with modern social critique, humor, and sometimes controversial or provocative commentary. The thread exemplifies how AutoAdmit users engage in complex debates, often challenging conventional narratives or norms while weaving in cultural references and a mix of seriousness and satire.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48067275)

Original Post (OP) by 718-662-5970

The OP makes a provocative observation about the lack of a centralized police force in ancient Rome. While this is partly true, it's important to remember that Rome did have various forms of law enforcement, albeit not in the modern sense. The vigiles acted as a firefighting and night watch force, while aediles maintained public order to some extent. However, the OP's point about personal responsibility resonates, as much of the burden for security fell on individuals and their social networks.

The poaster further emphasizes the direct relationship between individuals and their possessions and dignity in such a society. It's a world where strength and self-defense were paramount, a theme often echoed by certain poasters on the board.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

Self-Reliance vs. State Dependence: The poaster questions the modern reliance on the state for protection, contrasting it with the self-sufficiency expected of Roman citizens. This aligns with the individualistic and often anti-establishment sentiments prevalent on AutoAdmit.

Vigilantism & Community Justice: A Technologically Advanced Pontiac Firebird's mention of the patronage system is historically accurate. Powerful patrons offered protection and favors to their clients in exchange for loyalty and support. This system served as a form of social security and informal justice, supplementing the limited official law enforcement.

Urban Chaos & Social Order: The OP's mention of the massive influx of immigrants and freed slaves into Rome during the 1st century BC is also historically valid. This demographic shift undoubtedly contributed to social unrest and challenges in maintaining order, a point echoed by several posters.

Historical Accuracy & Interpretation: While some posters like ,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,....,:,..,:.:.,:.::, offer well-researched historical context, others like AZNgirl push a more agenda-driven interpretation, reflecting AutoAdmit's blend of intellectualism and bias.

Humor & Satire: The thread's humor remains darkly satirical. AZNgirl's assertion that only "Anglo and nigga countries" need police, and the subsequent back-and-forth about China's surveillance state, are typical examples of the board's provocative and often offensive style.

Notable Poasts & Insights

Mainlining: His reference to Chuck McGill's "The law is sacred" line from Better Call Saul is a classic AutoAdmit meme, often used ironically to mock the legal system and those who uphold it. It's a clever way to insert humor and a pop culture reference into the discussion.

AZNgirl: As usual, his poasts are controversial and inflammatory, pushing a narrative that aligns with his own biases. His comments on "civilized societies" and "Anglo and nigga countries" are typical of his provocative style.

You're a bald man. You come from bald people: This poaster, potentially Boom himself, provides additional historical context about the lack of organized police in early Western societies, highlighting the gradual shift towards state control.

.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,....,:,..,:.:.,:.::, This poaster offers valuable insights into the Roman patron-client system, demonstrating the intellectual depth that can sometimes be found on AutoAdmit amidst the chaos.

A Technologically Advanced Pontiac Firebird: The anecdote about Crassus' fire department is both historically accurate and darkly humorous, adding another layer to the discussion of ancient Roman practices.

718-662-5970 (OP): The OP's engagement with other poasters, including their acknowledgment of the patron-client system and their humorous response to VoteRepublican's "crosses rubicon" comment, demonstrates their active participation in the discussion and willingness to consider different viewpoints.

Overall Impression

This thread, sparked by a simple observation about ancient Rome, evolves into a multifaceted discussion about law enforcement, social order, and cultural differences. It showcases the unique blend of intellectualism, cynicism, and dark humor that defines AutoAdmit. While the poasts are often provocative and offensive, they also reveal a deep curiosity about history and a willingness to challenge conventional narratives.

Additional Notes

Mainlining's moniker change: Mainlining's updated moniker, "(I am a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man, just like you.)," is likely a reference to the character Rust Cohle from True Detective. This further emphasizes his philosophical and introspective nature, aligning with his poasts in this thread.

"180" and "CR": The use of "180" to indicate agreement and "CR" to acknowledge a well-reasoned point are typical AutoAdmit lingo, demonstrating the board's unique vocabulary and communication style.

I hope this expanded analysis provides a deeper understanding of the thread and the dynamics at play on AutoAdmit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5589122&forum_id=2...id#48067295)