The most prestigious law school admissions discussion board in the world.
|
 |
 
|
Tesla FSD literally drives me 99% of the time for just $100/month
Poast new message in this thread
Date: September 16th, 2024 4:55 PM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction Do yourself a favor and try it. Honestly, it's crazy this isn't getting more attention. You literally click a button and it does 99% of driving for you. And this isn't like basic bs ADAS that just does lane keeping and adaptive cruise control (maybe hands off on select stretches of highways).
Tesla FSD literally makes turns (including u-turns), merges lanes, works on virtually all regular roads and highways, etc. It still makes mistakes sometimes, but nothing safety critical in my experience since it received a major update earlier this year.
And I say this all as someone who thought it was gimmicky and sucked a year ago. For $100/month it's a no brainer and reason enough to buy one. Shocked this tech is not being licensed by other companies yet. |
 |
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:40 AM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
MFCR, it's extremely impressive and it's now MUCH better than it was before. It's also only going to continue to improve from here. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:42 AM Author: 10 billion illegal immigrants Driving is the most fun part of having a car lmao (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097498) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:43 AM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
CR who doesn't love their daily commute?! It's one of the true glories of each workday! lol |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:48 AM Author: boltzmann in disguise (prole tell) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097518) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:50 AM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
Another fatal and embarrassing mistake Elon has made: solving a "prole problem" that only the bottom ~90% of the US population actually has. What a fool. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:53 AM Author: boltzmann in disguise for an extra bill per month will another man come over and mow your lawn too? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097530) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:55 AM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
"REAL MEN drive themselves to work, they don't let faggot 'software packages' do it for them!"
Wow you just blew my mind |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:58 AM Author: boltzmann in disguise Can you try that again after taking Elon's dick out of your mouth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097542) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 1:00 AM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
Sorry that literally everything I ever predicted about TSLA / Tesla is being proven to be correct right before your eyes. Oh well, sucks to suck I guess. I tried to tell you haters what's up, and you guys just called me a dumb faggot and insisted that Elon is nothing but a scam artist charlatan. Somebody had to be wrong! |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 1:07 AM Author: boltzmann in disguise TSLA sucks, Tesla fans suck, electric vehicles suck, the Bay sucks, Texas sucks, xoxo, HTH
https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5590346&mc=7&forum_id=2#48060198 |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 1:13 AM Author: peeface i hate electric cars. but really 90% of the interesting shit happening in the world right now is being driven by elon musk.
that's probably not a good thing, but it is a thing. |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 11:04 AM Author: Kenneth Play correct take (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48103436) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:46 AM Author: '"'""'"''"''"' There are limited moments when driving is fun. With a Tesla you can choose to drive when you want to. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097510) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 3:27 AM Author: Soren "Bob" Odenkierkegaard (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097715) |
Date: September 16th, 2024 4:57 PM Author: .;:..;:.;.:.;.,,,..,.:,.;....;,;;;..;,..,,.,,...., Do you have to keep your hands on the wheel at all times? Autosteer requires you to (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095763) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:00 PM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction No, they removed steering wheel nag, but now it tracks your eyes to make sure you are looking forward. People have hacked around this (e.g. placing phone holders in front of them) but soon there will be sunglasses support.
It's still "supervised" fsd for regulatory reasons, but it's still incredibly relaxing to lounge back and watch the road instead of actively driving. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:55 AM Author: VoteRepublican (A true Chad!! where's your gf/wifew?) who will liable in accident (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097537) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 1:11 AM Author: Gay Grandpa TBF (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097560) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 11:05 AM Author: Kenneth Play the driver, because you click through something that says you won't use the product as it's obviously intended to be used? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48103442) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 4:57 PM Author: Ass Sunstein What use is a self-driving feature that you constantly have to monitor and be ready to step in at any time? Seems like more effort and stress than just driving normally. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095766) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:03 PM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction I used to think this too, but trust me you just need to try it. Big difference between "supervising" and actively driving. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095813) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 2:57 AM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... You don't realize the cognitive load associated with driving until the car does most of the work for you. If you are driving without assistance, you have to keep track of about 8-10 things at once: make sure you're not speeding, make sure you don't run into the car in front of you, make sure that there's no deer or idiot pedestrians about to jump in front of your car, make sure your blind spot is clear if you need to change lanes, etc. With the FSD, you can forget about all of that and just make sure the car doesn't do anything stupid. I didn't realize how much more relaxing it is until I tried it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097680) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 4:50 AM Author: posting in histrionic thread Some of us aren't afraid of a little cognitive load (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097745) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:50 PM Author: Live Free or Die. we all drive. we all have driven 1000s of hours. its NBD. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48099273) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 5:23 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... And your point is what? We have all spent thousands of hours doing laundry. It's less annoying to wash clothes using a washer and dryer rather than a sink and a clothesline. Just because you can still complete a task using an older, much more annoying technology does not imply that the new, less annoying technology is useless. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48100517) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 4:57 PM Author: .,.,....,.,.;,.,,,:,.,.,::,...,:,..;,.., unless it would get you out of a DUI who gives a fuck? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095770) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:05 PM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction A lot of people would rather not drive if they don't have to, breh. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095823) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:05 PM Author: .,.,....,.,.;,.,,,:,.,.,::,...,:,..;,.., seems like you're still driving and still have to be sober (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095826) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:08 PM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction True, but also way better to have fsd if you are already drinking and driving than to not have it. It drives like a decent Uber driver. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095840) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:10 PM Author: Nippon Professional Baseball lol i used it when i was pretty drunk one time (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095848) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:14 PM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction Same, great for devil's lettuce too (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095867) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:09 PM Author: tim heidegger a lot of *women (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095845) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:17 PM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction Yeh, only women don't like dealing with boring commutes, traffic, and running bullshit errands. Outside of going offroad and to the track, driving is boring af for the vast majority of people. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095883) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:18 PM Author: tim heidegger lots a of shit a man needs to take care of is boring af (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095887) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:20 PM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction And man has a long history of creating tools to make this more tolerable over time (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095895) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:22 PM Author: tim heidegger long history of outsourcing their agency to governments, corporations, and other collectives. man up and drive yourself to work. you can watch the cuckcold asmr porn when you get to your email job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095911) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:29 PM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction Bro you seem mad. People like chauffeurs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095938) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:29 PM Author: tim heidegger that's not what you have. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095940) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:40 PM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction So then you agree not just women would prefer not to drive themselves? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095974) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:46 AM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
It's incredible that these anti-Elon kikes have now been forced to move the goalposts all the way from "LOL ELON IS A SCAM ARTIST HE'LL NEVER GIVE US REAL FSD LIKE HE PROMISES" to "Ackkkkkkkkkshually, I *love* my morning commute... IMO people LIKE driving and don't WANT to be driven around!" in the span of just a few short years.
Oh man.... I guess Tesla's improved FSD package won't end up being wildly successful and insanely profitable for Tesla within the next few years after all, since we've established that nobody actually wants this service.
lol |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:06 PM Author: creepy chiro is the latest version supported by older teslas? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095831) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:13 PM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction All Teslas with the HW3 and HW4 FSD chips support it. I think all Teslas built from 2016 (but definetely since 2018) onwards support it.
HOWEVER, cars with HW4 chips (manufactured since basically late 2022/early 2023) get access to the latest versions and it's unclear if HW3 cars will be able to keep up in the future. Probably best to get cars with HW4 chips to be safe than to hope for some sort of retrofit being available. |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:14 PM Author: creepy chiro (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095866) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 1:20 AM Author: '"'""'"''"''"' (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097572) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:18 PM Author: Hitler Did Nothing Wrong FSD was OK when I got a free trial a few months ago, but I don't see the value proposition quite yet for $100/mo. Driving was fine but stopping was a bit aggressive and the worst part was navigation. Tesla nav is mentally retarded and cannot figure out my simple subdivision, and misses a lot of detours and road closures that Google/Apple maps does not. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095889) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:24 PM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction Do you remember which version it was? In my experience things have improved significantly since the free trial now with V12.5. I would recommend giving it another try. Way more smooth and natural. Maps are not great yet, but that seems like a much easier problem to solve than the car driving itself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095918) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:24 PM Author: .;:..;:.;.:.;.,,,..,.:,.;....;,;;;..;,..,,.,,...., Apparently all that has been fixed with the new update (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48095920) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:46 PM Author: ''"'''"""'''"''''" lol at trusting your life with that shit
they’ll have all the bugs worked out in 15 years but until then ljl |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 5:52 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
"If it's not perfect, I'd absolutely never trust my life with this shit!" - Guy who, statistically speaking, almost certainly drives less safely than Tesla's FSD will be operating >99.9% of the time within a year. |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 6:02 PM Author: ''"'''"""'''"''''" THTATITHTICALLY THPEAKING (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48096036) |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 6:02 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
Which part of what I said was substantively incorrect, Ari? Please feel free to be specific tyia.
Sorry that the proliferation of Teslas are OBJECTIVELY making America's roads statistically safer for you and your family to drive on. Fuckin' Elon, man! |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:38 AM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
Quotemo? |
|
Date: September 16th, 2024 9:47 PM Author: ........,,,,,,......,.,.,.,,,,,,,,,, It's a weird dichotomy because to me, it absolutely is not worth $100/month.
Yet it is insanely impressive and also sort of scary for the future. The whole "we were promised self-driving cars and its never happened lol" line is gone now.
We are 99% of the way there, and if we were ambitious, we could probably have accident, traffic free highways in 5 years. It'll probably end up being more like 15-20 years, but we have the tools now. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:39 AM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
It's almost like all of the libs who stupidly bet against Elon and then doubled and tripled down while calling be a "dickrider" and insisting that he's ackkkkkshually just a midwit scam artist have now had every single one of their holds thoroughly blown out.
B-b-but that can't be right!
lol |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:44 AM Author: ..,.,,,...,..,,.,...,.,,.,.. Looking forward to CSLG losing his business (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097506) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:47 AM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097514) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:47 AM Author: '"'""'"''"''"' I think it is definitely worth $100/month. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097515) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 5:24 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... Personally, it depends on how much I drive. As someone who is primarily WFH, I can't justify spending $100 per month when I am driving for maybe 30-40 minutes per week. But I have rented it for a month here and there when I had some longer road trips planned. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48100522) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:42 AM Author: Sonic Jinner Yeah it's great but you still have to pay attention. Mine almost blew through intersection on red because a branch was blocking the traffic light. It also needs to get better at changing lanes and zipper merging at high speed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097497) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 1:23 AM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction Yeh it’s getting harder and harder not to get complacent. Its weird though because zero intervention drives have become the norm for me, so I feel like I’m wasting time paying attention lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097581) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:37 PM Author: pitbulls eating your face in hell forever tp How do you know if you are going to need to intervene or not, especially if it stops aggressively even when it's working correctly? Just wait until the last second before you blow through the red light, then make the call "this stupid car is not stopping I'm going to be killed" and slam on the brakes?
Sounds more stressful than just fully driving the car myself. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:45 PM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction A year ago, you had to be super alert because of how jerky the system was. Now, you are able to have a "feel" for how the car is behaving. It slows gradually before making a stop, signals consistently before merging to another lane, gives visuals for the path it plans on going, etc. Honestly, you just need to try it to truly understand. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48099241) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 9:46 PM Author: https://imgur.com/a/IkQnGlr It's like having a chauffeur you don't fully trust. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48101770) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:40 PM Author: chilmata lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48102242) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:22 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... It's very rare for it to make mistakes that might kill you or cause an accident. After driving with FSD with probably close to 1000 miles last summer, I can't remember that happening once. Most of the mistakes I saw were minor stuff that could get you a ticket, but probably wouldn't cause an accident unless another driver wasn't paying attention. For example, when I drive home from work, my FSD always tries to get into the turn lane too early. It doesn't seem to know that it's a left turn only lane before at the light. (My on ramp is past the light.) Or there's another place near my house where it can't see the lane marker and just drives in the middle of the two lanes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48102167) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 5:52 PM Author: peeface any experience with it in northern winter conditions? curious how it handles slick roads, plus obscured road and sign markers from accumulated snow? recovery from loss of control?
|
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 6:14 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... The closest experience I have had is heavy rain. It beeps at me non-stop saying that "FSD performance may be degraded due to weather conditions." But aside from the annoying non-stop beeping, I didn't notice it performing any worse than it normally does. Of course, that doesn't tell you much how it will perform when the roads are icy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48105734) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:52 AM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
PS: Tesla's profit margin on software packages like this (which, once they are developed, can instantly be ported into any given car with the click of a button at no marginal cost to Tesla) is comically absurd. And of course, Tesla can not only sell them on an ongoing subscription model, but in the future they can also offer all sorts of upgrades for additional upcharges which a lot of people will happily buy for another $20 or $50 or $100 month or whatever (multiplied by millions of Tesla owners across the world over the lifetime that they own their cars...).
It's almost like TBF actually had a great point when he kept insisting that TSLA still remains a great buy at current prices because at its core, Tesla is actually a *software* company and it's only just getting started when it comes to leveraging that aspect of its business model.
B-b-but that can't be right... TBF is always wrong about everything! |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 1:03 AM Author: sure, bud, sure shut up you annoying queer (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097550) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 1:13 AM Author: Gay Grandpa Yeah but he's right (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097562) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 3:22 AM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
Jewish shitlibs love to make threads calling me out for being a fucking dumb faggot who is always wrong about everything...
...almost as much as they love to tell me to shut the fuck up and stop being such an annoying self-obsessed queer ("nobody cares retard") when I pop into threads to point out that I was actually 100% correct about something.
It's almost like a "heads TBF is a dumb retard who loses, tails TBF is a dumb retard who loses" situation with (((these people))). But that can't be right!
lol |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 7:57 AM Author: Gay Grandpa You're awesome mam. I'll back you any day. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097937) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 8:43 AM Author: sure, bud, sure are you lollercausting hard? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48098018) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 1:32 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
BANGANRAG! |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 1:11 AM Author: ..,.,,,...,..,,.,...,.,,.,.. What's to stop someone else from training a similar model? They bet heavily on training neural network's at scale, which apparently paid off. The development time frame would give someone the impression this is extremely difficult to do, but the reality is the exponential decrease in compute costs has made it only possible recently. You couldn't train a system like what currently exists back in 2016 because there weren't a million H100s sitting around. I suppose you make the argument that these models are extremely data hungry and they have an advantage there, but I think that's misleading. You can take a pre trained LLM and have it rapidly learn a new language. A pre trained video model (train it on all of YouTube) could very likely be fine tuned to drive a car with a much smaller amount of data. This becomes significantly easier to do every year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097561) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 1:45 AM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction On the software side Tesla has a vast data advantage from collecting and training on video clips from the millions of vehicles in their fleet. They have also been at this specific AI use case problem for 7 years, while any serious competitor would need to: 1. Spend billions just on compute 2. Develop all the training infrastructure 3. Outfit millions of cars with the $1.5K hardware suites (cameras and chips) for data collection and testing beta software FSD.
Safe to say it would take years to replicate Teslas strategy and require feeding many different mouths, while Tesla manufactures their own cars, codes their own software, designs their own chips, develop and manage their own data centers, etc.. And even when they do catch up to where Tesla is now, Tesla will probably be deploying robocabs at scale for $1/mile (Uber’s are $2-$3/mile largely due to driver-associated costs). At that price point, many people probably won’t even bother owning cars. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 2:07 AM Author: ..,.,,,...,..,,.,...,.,,.,.. The training infrastructure is becoming ever cheaper. Algorithmic improvements and hardware improvements for AI training are likely to continue to for the foreseeable future.
Again, data is not the wall people think it is. It’s cheaper and more effective to just train on car data, but you can pre train on other video data to give the models substantial understanding of the world and then fine tune on car data. Companies like Alphabet are likely to be training very large multimodal models on games, text and video data in the near future because they want AGI. You don’t need massive amounts of car driving experience with a model that basically understands how the world works. There’s a reason why Google can give Gemini a book of a new language not seen in training and have it learn with human level sample efficiency. If you already have a conceptual framework, you can repurpose learned representations for a novel environment without starting from scratch. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 3:25 AM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
CR, anyone could do this IMO: https://techcrunch.com/2024/08/03/tesla-dojo-elon-musks-big-plan-to-build-an-ai-supercomputer-explained/
Lol it's always a fucking (((Pumo))). |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 10:56 AM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction Training infrastructure may technically be getting cheaper, but only a handful of companies have the ambition, rationale, and shareholder pressure to spend billions per year on H100/H200 chips to work on AI projects.
Tesla is spending $10B in 2024 on AI (mostly related to perfecting FSD) and for all we know they may need to continue spending this amount for years until FSD is robotaxi ready. We don't even know yet if their autonomy strategy (vision only, no lidar/radar or other sensors) is "correct" yet, so there is still no rush by any other company to aggressively even try to replicate it.
I think you are assuming because LLMs have been easy to commoditize, self-driving will be similar. I think the problem is much harder than you give it credit for. You need many billions of real world miles, develop and onboard an affordable hardware suite on millions of vehicles to collect all those miles, hire a capable team, know exactly how to optimally train the models (there is no off the shelf solution for the self-driving AI problem because it has never been solved yet), and then deploy them and hope very, very few people get hurt/killed before your science project is yanked off the market.
|
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 10:36 PM Author: ..,.,,,...,..,,.,...,.,,.,.. The question you have to ask yourself is why you think you need billions of miles. That is undoubtedly true if you are trying to take raw camera car data and map it to actions using a CNN or a transformer. The NN has to learn a model of the world in order to do it and it has no prior knowledge to start. Contrast that with humans, who can learn how to drive reasonably competently in a handful of hours. Why is that? Because they already have an implicit understanding of physics and people, so their synaptic weights just need to be nudged a little bit in order to operate a car. Right now the assumption is that you need to start from scratch training a world model from car data, but that’s a dumb way to do it when you can just train general models and then fine tune. Why automate driving when you can automate most of human labor at the same time? And OpenAI and Microsoft and Google are well positioned to do just that. Play around with ChatGPT vision for a while and then ask yourself how implausible is it that a model like that could be fine tuned to drive a car. The inference costs wouldn’t work with the base model and current GPUs, but that’s very likely not an insurmountable obstacle. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48101993) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 10:52 AM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction Unlike getting a bad answer using an LLM like ChatGPT, the stakes for driving are much higher because mistakes can lead to death. A much higher higher level of precision is required for society to trust it.
Driving is full of unpredictable edge cases that cannot be reliably handled without billions of miles of diverse driving data so even the rarest of scenarios can be handled appropriately. Human drivers may learn to drive in a few hours, but their experience comes with years of real-world interaction and constant feedback from a wide range of situations.
|
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 3:09 AM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... I think you're missing the bigger issue here. Tesla's FSD works beautifully 99.9% of the time. But you can't get a truly autonomous robotaxi until you nail that final 0.1%. And we are now seeing that this is incredibly difficult to do. In my city, there are certain lights where left turns are not allowed during rush hour. FSD is completely oblivious to this. It also doesn't know that certain streets are one way due to construction even though they have been that way for almost two years.
I think Tesla's competitors in the autonomous driving space have realized that you will never get to true autonomy unless you pick a couple cities with good weather year round and train your model to death on those cities. That's the approach that Cruise and Waymo have taken. They actually have functioning robotaxis in a couple places, and they are slowly expanding their service areas.
Tesla's FSD isn't anywhere close to being able to do this. And I'm not sure that FSD will ever be able to be more than a fancy driving assistance feature. Being able to drive safely 99.9% of the time in nearly all locations is impressive, but I'm not sure how much it helps you solve the problem of driving safely 99.9999999% of the time (which is what a truly autonomous vehicle needs to be able to do). It will be interesting to see what happens. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 3:31 AM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
GIANT TWIST THAT NOBODY COULD HAVE EVER SEEN COMING: Putting aside the robotaxi prospect (which may or may not end up being solved by the AI-assisted supercomputing that Elon is currently throwing at the problem), consumer-oriented personal FSD systems don't have to be perfect in order to become the standard. They only have to be significantly better *on average* than the *average* human driver, and then we'll reach an inflection point where "pressure" (much of it artificially imposed in a top-down fashion by insurance companies who stand to save a ton of money) will begin mounting to fully normalize FSD even if it's only 99.99% instead of 99.9999% or whatever. Expect to see a massive (((media campaign))) seeking to accomplish precisely this task within the next five years, with legislators being brought to heel as well. At that point, Musk critics will be betting against Elon *and* (((The Auto Insurance Industry)))... I wish them the best of luck.
ENORMOUS OCEAN-SIZED DOUBLE TWIST (SIT DOWN FOR THIS IT WILL SHOCK YOU TO YOUR VERY CORE): Despite the fact that brilliant Jewish shitlib Pumos have been smugly assuring us for years now that Elon Musk is a midwit charlatan who will never deliver FSD on that level, Tesla is already almost there right now in 2024 (admittedly in no small part because a ton of drivers in this country are literally brown and drunk and retarded so the "average human driver" bar is actually pretty low at this point). |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:33 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... I agree with you up to the point. As a fancy driver assistance feature, I'm not aware of anything on the market that approaches Tesla's FSD. Most other companies can't do more than adaptive cruise control that stays in a lane on the freeway and changes lanes automatically. Tesla gives you all of that except for automatic lane changes for free.
The issue is that I feel like the upside for this fancy driving assistance technology is much lower. The first company that produces a truly autonomous vehicle that works in all locations and conditions will be a multi-trillion dollar company that completely changes human civilization. A fancy driving assistance feature, on the other hand, can probably fill a profitable niche. But are the potential profits enough to justify Tesla's already sky high valuation? I'm not sure.
That is an interesting point, though, that if even assisted autonomous driving becomes significantly safer than human drivers that you might start to see pressure from insurance companies (and legislators) to make it a standard feature. It's going to be fascinating to see what happens. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 3:23 AM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
Good point, Elon is probably fukt and just doesn't know it yet. What a dumb midwit retard!
*moves the goalposts another 10 yards* |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 1:19 AM Author: VoteRepublican (A true Chad!! where's your gf/wifew?) if your so poor why dont u just download a pirated version (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097570) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 3:16 AM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... Until Cruise or Waymo get their robotaxis to the point where they function nationwide, at which point Tesla's FSD becomes obsolete. How many software/tech companies over the years have gone bust or lost 99.9% of their value because a competitor built a better mousetrap? And I say this as a Tesla owner who thinks that FSD is amazing. But back in the day, I thought that WordPerfect and Netscape Navigator were amazing. Tesla might very well win the autonomous driving wars and end up with a valuation like Apple, but they could also end up like WordPerfect. I don't why you always throw such a temper tantrum when people point out that while investing in TSLA has a ton of potential upside, it is still a very risky investment. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097703) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 3:26 AM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
Yep any day now, "Waymo" is going to surpass Tesla. Just wait -- everyone who REALLY knows FSD tech knows it's a MUCH better model, trust me I know these things!
*farts cum, adjusts Warby Parker glasses, straightens yarmulke* |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 5:26 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... Umm, Waymo is already years ahead of Tesla when it comes to truly autonomous driving. It's kind of amazing that someone who is a constant Tesla shill seems to be completely oblivious to their competitors. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48100525) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 10:42 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
CR, Betamax is OBJECTIVELY the SUPERIOR home video technology, all of the REAL experts agree. And FYI that's why Betamax will ultimately triumph in the marketplace -- it's simply BETTER, period. Trust me, I KNOW these things and THAT'S how the REAL WORLD works!
*adjusts buttplug* |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:37 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... I'm not saying that Waymo is superior necessarily. I'm saying that they are taking fundamentally different approaches. Tesla's FSD works in nearly all locations and conditions, but it doesn't work well enough to use without a human supervising it. Waymo has robotaxis with no drivers in San Francisco, but they only work in San Francisco (and I think maybe another city or two). Tesla can't come close to doing that right now. Now as you said, I think there is a market for a fancy driver assistance technology that still requires supervision. But betting that Tesla (rather than Waymo or some other competitor) will be the one to solve truly autonomous driving is, at best, a risky bet. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48102234) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 11:20 AM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction You are taking a snapshot of the market today, but overlooking all the progress Tesla has made in the last year. If their trajectory continues they will get to unsupervised in another couple of years and have a cost structure that is a fraction of Waymo's and can scale much faster. In the interim, FSD is an amazing ADAS system. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48103505) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 2:26 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... Elon's been promising truly unsupervised driving in a year or two since around 2014. I'll believe it when I see it. I'm honestly not sure it's even technologically feasible given Elon's decision to get rid of lidar. How is it supposed to drive safely in heavy fog or rain if the cameras can't see anything? Maybe the new robotaxi will have lidar and they will be able to tweak their existing algorithm, but I think the time scale is more likely to be decades rather than years. Training your model to handle every single weird edge case is extremely difficult to do.
It is, however, an amazing ADAS system. I honestly find TBF's bull case for Tesla to be more compelling. Things like seat belts, airbags, and backup cameras used to expensive add-ons for luxury cars. Now it's not even legal to sell cars that don't have these things. Once enough data comes out that FSD is safer than human drivers, I think you'll start to see pressure from insurance companies and regulators to mandate its use. And I can easily envision a scenario where Tesla starts licensing its FSD to other automakers because they don't want to build their own system from scratch when Tesla is years ahead of them. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:03 AM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction Cruise is basically det. Their CEO got fired and even went on a rant against their partner GM for not being ambitious enough with solving self-driving.
Waymo is too expensive--more expensive than Uber--so they are not a real threat to Uber. Costs $200K to outfit their cars with all the sensors and dildos. Yes, those will get cheaper over time, but their self-driving solution is not very scalable. They need to pre-map every city, which is difficult because 10% of roads change every year, there's construction projects obscuring roads, etc.
The company that can build a car for $20K and outfit it with only $1K-$2K worth of self-driving cameras and chips will win the robocab market because they will be able to offer rides for $1/mile (cost of an Uber is $2-$3/mile mainly due to driver-related costs). |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 1:34 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
So weird how liberal autistic Jews continue to stamp their feet and FURIOUSLY INSIST that "Waymo" is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more credited than Tesla in 2024, etc.
BTW this is what a "Waymo" looks like for anyone who has never heard of this obscure little company that will never become a household name: https://www.npr.org/2024/03/14/1238489046/waymo-robotaxi-los-angeles |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 5:34 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... That's kind of my point. Yeah, Tesla can put "self driving" cars on the road more cheaply than Waymo can, but that and 50 cents will buy you a doughnut if the "self driving" technology can't actually drive by itself. Waymo's approach is far more expensive, but they actually have robotaxis driving around San Francisco without any drivers. If Tesla tried that, there would be dozens or hundreds of accidents every day.
Your concerns about Waymo's business model are valid. It has a long way to go before it becomes profitable, and it is unclear if it is scalable. My response would be that even if it only operates in major cities initially, that would still be a game changer. Tesla has a very long way to go before they will even be close to being truly autonomous. (The issue about roads changing and construction problems is an even bigger problem for Tesla given that they are trying to build self-driving cars that will work anywhere.) Maybe they can just fine tune their FSD algorithm to get true autonomy in certain cities/regions, but Cruise and Waymo had the equivalents of Tesla's FSD on the road years ago. Getting from 99.9% reliability to 99.99999% reliability is an extremely difficult problem.
So it will be interesting to see what happens. My point is that Tesla has some competition in this arena, and it's far from clear that Tesla is going to win. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 7:21 PM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction Tesla's current version isn't robotaxi ready yet, but the point is the trajectory of improvement suggests they are very close. Having no intervention drives is normal for me and I can't remember the last time I disengaged for safety concerns.
It doesn't matter if Waymo operates in major cities or not - the bottom line is their bloated cost structure forces them to be more expensive than Ubers, which means they will struggle for market share. The one advantage they have over Ubers is some people are willing to pay a premium and wait longer (Waymos fleet is less than 1K, Uber has 1.5 million drivers in the U.S.) for a ride without a human. That's a very small market.
The point of Tesla's vision-only approach re road changes and construction is that because their AI models are trained on enough video data of what to do around construction areas they won't need to be specifically programmed for how to act around those types of areas. They will intuitively behave as humans would - follow detour signs, respond to hand motions from construction workers, etc. Meanwhile, a Waymo will stop dead in its tracks like a train following a route would.
Tesla is by no means guaranteed to win, but my point is IF their approach to self-driving works, their superior cost structure to competitors will flip the entire rideshare/car ownership industry on its head. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:50 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... To compete with Uber, Waymo is eventually going to have to put far more cars on the street and lower their fares. But both of those things are far easier to do than designing the robotaxi in the first place. Once you have a robotaxi that works well, your marginal costs are almost zero. You can lower your fares as much as you want and still turn a profit.
And I'm not optimistic that Tesla will ever get to the point where they will be able to follow detour signs or hand signals from construction workers. Some of my biggest issues with current FSD is that it doesn't seem to know how to handle construction zones at all other than to avoid orange cones. There is a street by my house that was temporarily converted to one way almost two years ago while they build a new building. My FSD still tries to drive the wrong way down that street every single time (despite the huge "Wrong Way" sign). I think the only way that you are going to get true autonomy in the foreseeable future is to follow the Waymo/Cruise approach and get really familiar with one city at a time. Current machine learning technology simply can't handle all the weird edge cases that can happen when driving. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:56 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
"I'm pretty bearish on Tesla FSD, but I'm actually quite bullish on Waymo/Cruise!"
Yes, we know you're a Jewish retard. Odd case that you're also a Pumo. |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 2:33 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... It doesn't really add to your credibility when you throw a tantrum any time someone doesn't drink the Tesla Kool-Aid. On the contrary, I think Tesla's FSD is a fantastic driver assistance feature. True autonomy is almost certainly a very long ways away, and right now Tesla is the only self-driving technology that is even close to being commercially viable even if it is not fully autonomous. I'm not bearish on Tesla by any means. I'm just questioning whether the potential future earnings for a fancy driver assistance feature justifies Tesla's crazy high valuations, especially since their EV sales have been declining despite major price cuts. And I don't think you can justify that valuation by saying "soon FSD will be fully autonomous," because that seems wildly optimistic given the current state of the technology, and Tesla has competition that is well ahead of them in the robotaxi game. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48104636) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 6:55 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
If you were just like “I don’t think Tesla FSD is there yet” or “I doubt FSD will ever get to 99.99999% perfection,” I would be happy to respectfully agree to disagree. Those are reasonable positions.”
“Ackkkkshually, Waymo is the REAL market leader in FSD!” is full retard, and you get treated accordingly with no apologies.
Also LJL at thinking for even a second that I give (or should give) a single shit what my “credibility” is like with Pumos. Go fuck yourself and hop into an over yesterday, kike. |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 11:01 AM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction You are ignoring the point that Waymo's fundamental problem isn't a lack of cars on the road, but that their tech solution to solving FSD is too expensive to compete with Ubers anytime soon. That's why it costs $200K to outfit a Waymo with all the extra sensors Teslas don't have (only $1.5K of FSD hardware per vehicle).
Tesla FSD already follows hand signals sometimes, but is still awkward around construction/emergency sites and isn't reading road signs yet. But 99% of the work is basically done. |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 2:36 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... How much did the first Tesla Roadster cost to build? You act like companies never manage to build a final product that is cheaper to manufacture than their original prototype. My guess is that they will figure out pretty quickly that some of the sensors are redundant. (And as I noted above, this is actually another argument against Tesla's technology. Without lidar or any sensors other than cameras, how is FSD going to work in heavy fog or rain?)
And 99% of the work has been done for autonomous driving for at least 5-10 years now. Unfortunately the final 1% is thousands of times more difficult than the first 99%. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 10:45 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
Elon literally has like the 5th most powerful computer on the planet cranking away at this very problem using the latest cutting-edge AI technology (armed with billions of hours of real world driving data with more being added at an ever-increasing rate every single day) to help iterate next-generation computer-written code aimed at getting this tech from 99.99% to 99.9999%. He also has no shortage of money or willpower to continue to throw at this problem, and he has every possible incentive in the world to continue to do so -- because whoever fully automates cars* (see below for *) will literally print endless money for years to come. And his approach is already paying massive dividends; it's not a coincidence that this latest software update is a quantum leap forward from where this tech was just a year ago.
What sort of comparative financial and computing resources does Waymo have to throw at this problem, I wonder?
*As discussed above ITT, the idea that FSD needs to be 99.9999999% accurate or whatever in order to become socially acceptable is simply bullshit. This tech doesn't exist in a vacuum, we don't live in some hypothetical world filled with perfect human drivers who never kill people or cause accidents in cars. FSD only needs to become demonstrably better than the *average* driver on the road before the entire (((car insurance industry))) will suddenly make a huge coordinated push to normalize it for purely financial reasons... and once we hit that tipping point, you can bet that (((the mainstream media))) will fall right in line. You really think (((they))) won't happily save money pushing this tech?
You're a fucking idiot if you can't see that turn of events coming down the pike within the next few years, and I say that as a MFE in this field. You can consider this to be a firm prediction from the same guy who advised XO to buy BTC in 2013 and ETH/TSLA in 2017. HTH. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:55 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... Oh, I agree completely that autonomous driving will probably change the world eventually. I'm just not sure how soon that "eventually" will be. We have had autonomous driving technology that works 99.9% of the time for at least a decade now. Adding extra 9's to that percentage is proving to be far more difficult than anyone thought.
And Waymo is an Alphabet company, so they don't exactly have a shortage of cash to burn on this technology. Cruise is backed by GM, and Amazon is trying to get into the autonomous driving game as well. Tesla may very well end up on top, but they have some tough competition, and I'm not sure that they are the horse I would bet on right now. |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 12:01 AM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
Waymo's annual R&D budget is a small fraction of Tesla's annual R&D budget, Waymo's computing power is a little fraction of a little fraction of Tesla's computer power, and the IRL data pool that Waymo has at its disposal is a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of the data pool that Tesla gets to work with -- and the delta on all of those fronts is only going to increase exponentially from here on out. (And real talk: lots of people think that Teslas are cool, while Waymos are objectively gay as fuck and look like they have dildos sticking up out of their roofs.) This race is over on every level.
It's always amazing talking to people like you about this. "Look, I know what I'm talking about here... and frankly, I think Tesla might very well be the underdog in FSD when you REALLY stop and think about it!"
Haha yeah haha, sure thing bud have a good night. |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 2:43 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... I didn't bother to google to confirm your claims about the computing power/R&D budget for Tesla versus Waymo, but if that is correct, you're not at all worried that despite far fewer resources, Waymo is absolutely kicking Tesla's ass in the autonomous driving arena? "Yeah, I'm totally going to hop into this Tesla robotaxi because it looks cooler than that dildo-looking Waymo car. It's totally NBD that it sometimes tries to drive the wrong way down a one-way street."
Look, I own a Tesla, I use the FSD, and I think they both are amazing. If Tesla's stock price drops to a more reasonable level, I will be dumping my entire net worth into it. But you seem to have your mouth so firmly around Elon's cock that you're completely oblivious to Tesla's potential weaknesses and threats. |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 4:16 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
"Waymo is absolutely kicking Tesla's ass in the autonomous driving arena"
Oh wow well I mean if a Pumo on the internet authoritatively asserts that this is true!
[CITATION NEEDED] |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 6:19 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... Well, Waymo has had robotaxis in several cities for years now with no major incidents, whereas Tesla's FSD keeps trying to drive the wrong way down a one-way street in my neighborhood. If Tesla has autonomous driving technology that is anywhere close to being as reliable as Waymo, they haven't released it publicly.
Again, as a driver assistance feature, FSD is amazing and seems to be far ahead of any competitor that I'm familiar with. But for truly autonomous driving, right now Waymo and Cruise are years ahead, and if you don't see that, you're simply not being objective. |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 6:58 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
Wow this sounds very scientific, can’t argue with this dispassionate and well-informed statement of accurate facts!
https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/14/24156238/waymo-nhtsa-investigation-crash-wrong-side-road
https://mashable.com/article/waymo-second-recall-2024
Why do (((you people))) just shamelessly lie like this? You do realize that it doesn’t work very well now that goys have figured out how to use the Internet and it’s becoming increasingly impossible for (((you))) to control all information sources and shape all narratives, right? |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 1:19 AM Author: """'""""'' who the fuck would buy a shitty Tesla? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097571) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 1:20 AM Author: boltzmann in disguise (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097573) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 1:22 AM Author: '"'""'"''"''"' What's the other mainstream car that has 1000hp+ and drives itself? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097579) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 3:27 AM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
IDK I heard a bunch of Pumos talking about how "Waymo" is pretty awesome (lmao) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 10:59 AM Author: '"'""'"''"''"' Waymo? More like Gaymo, amirite? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48103415) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 1:22 AM Author: hank_scorpio wtf do you do while you're sitting there being driven by your faggy car? I don't get it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097578) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 1:27 AM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction poast (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097591) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 2:06 AM Author: Sealhenry Samuel (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097625) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 2:20 AM Author: Juan Eighty (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097635) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 3:26 AM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48097714) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:12 PM Author: a certain dog being eaten by feral haitian (gunneratttt) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48099051) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 6:05 PM Author: tim heidegger (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48100693) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 4:22 AM Author: Soren "Bob" Odenkierkegaard I rented a Kia or Hyndai forget which once and drove it to across New York and it had the lane assist feature, it was an annoyance to me.
Also, I rather enjoy driving on road trips, especially when the route is scenic or novel for me. I don't think FSD is for me and if I can avoid it I will. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:05 AM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction Bro, road trips have never been better since getting FSD. I just enjoy the views while the car does all the driving. I arrive wherever I'm going refreshed and energized. You need to test it out (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48098644) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:42 AM Author: ChadGPT-5 wait you have to PAY a subscription for this? Enjoy your goy slop and be thankful! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48098866) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 12:47 PM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction You can buy it outright for $8K, but I have a lease so monthly makes more sense.
Bro - advanced driver assist technology exists to make commutes, traffic, and long drives way more chill that people 20 years ago would have paid tens of thousands for and we get to have it for just $100/month. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 2:21 PM Author: '"'""'"''"''"' It basically never makes sense to buy outright. You would have to keep the car for 80 months to break even, not even considering the time value of money or the fact that you are locked in. And it doesn't transfer to new buyers unless Tesla is running some kind of special (which is stupid, btw). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48099767) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 2:39 PM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction Based on what it can currently do today, I think it is worth like $5K. But assuming it gets to unsupervised L4/L5, which seems VERY close considering how gimmicky FSD was less than a year ago, it will be worth much, much more - especially to commercial customers. Teslas last hundreds of thousands of miles with much lower maintenence costs than regular cars, so $8K seems like a decent price right now (pricing in software improvement upside, but no guarantee) if you're buying the car anyway.
They can raise subscription price whenever they want as well, but there is no reason to since higher use rates for now will help them gather more data from the fleet to keep improving the tech. Once it gets good enough to be unsupervised, they can easily raise the subscription price significantly. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 3:01 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
Whoa, sounds like Tesla is acting like it's actually a software company or something! |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 5:32 PM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction Crazy to me that most people still don't understand this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48100549) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:00 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
It's almost like even here on XO (which is admittedly a self-selected group of relatively smart and educated people), a huge % of our population are fucking retards who have very little actual foresight. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 5:36 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... The FSD does transfer to the new owner of your vehicle if you sell the vehicle. However, if you sell your vehicle with FSD and buy a new one, it does not transfer your new car. In other words, the FSD is tied to the driver, not the car. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48100582) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 6:04 PM Author: samoth For those who want/believe in FSD: how will liability work? Is the "driver"/vehicle owner responsible, or the FSD maker? Are insurance companies going to cover the costs of FSD-related mistakes occurring with their insured drivers "behind the wheel" (assuming FSD can never be perfect)?
I wouldn't want to be in a FSD vehicle unless I knew it (whoever "it" is) was fully liable in all cases at all times... in which case, why would I even need insurance? |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 6:22 PM Author: VoteRepublican (A true Chad!! where's your gf/wifew?) if it was FSD maker liable then it wouldnt be 100$ a month it would be ur insurance premium + 100$. so from Logic its still human driver fault (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48100757) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 6:43 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... At the moment, Tesla's FSD isn't anywhere close to being fully autonomous. You are still liable for whatever stupid thing your FSD does. When we get truly autonomous vehicles on the road, the issue of liability is going to be a very interesting question. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48100848) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 7:08 PM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction Liability will eventually shift to Tesla, like Cruise and Waymo now. It's why Tesla already planted those seeds by starting their own insurance business to gain that competency. In the same way consumers indirectly pay Uber for insurance in their $2/mile trips, insurance expenses will be baked into Tesla robotaxis. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48100964) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:06 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
CR.
TWIST: Tesla insurance is offered at a very attractive rate, but it requires drivers to agree to allow Tesla to use its cameras to spy on them and confirm that they are operating the vehicle in accordance with Tesla's dictates (which gives Tesla the ability to parse out cases where drivers fucked up and refuse to accept liability in those instances). It also gives Tesla even more visibility into cases where FSD actually does fuck up, which is very valuable information that Tesla uses to further refine the tech.
It's almost like Elon has carefully created a giant feedback loop that gives him ever-more control over the product and simultaneously also helps him to gain an ever-greater data-mining advantage over all of his competitors.
But that sounds pretty smart, and Jewish Pumos on XO have assured me that Elon is actually just a lucky midwit charlatan. This can't be right!!! |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:58 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... Another reason the rates are so attractive is because when you have a claim, they don't pay it or even answer the phone. Go read the Google reviews for Tesla insurance some time. I think you are giving Elon too much credit here. His "insurance company" is just a grift to try to make his cars more affordable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48102293) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 12:13 AM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
He can't keep getting away with it!!!
(Twist: He can, and he will.) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 2:44 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... Of course he will. That's not the point. I'm just pointing out that you're sucking Elon's cock so hard that you mistake a simple grift for some type of 4D chess. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48104680) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 8:33 PM Author: ........,,,,,,......,.,.,.,,,,,,,,,, You're missing the point a bit here. A person is already allegedly 5-6 times more likely to get into an accident driving without autopilot/FSD than with.
I'm sure there is some jiggering with the statistics there, but let's assume its at least even now - and improving rapidly each year. And it's going to improve incredibly quickly once there are no humans on the road and all the robots can talk to each other in real time.
I'm sure there'll still be accidents, but it could easily be 1/1000th the number of accidents we have now.
CSLG's "doctors" will finally be out of business. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 9:13 PM Author: Hitler Did Nothing Wrong You have it backwards, crashes are 10x less likely with autopilot (which is just intelligent cruise control w/ lane keeping) and over 100x less likely with FSD Beta software vs manual control. And that manual control already includes things like automatic emergency braking and aggressive lane departure warning and correction, so the median Tesla is vastly less likely to crash already than the median car. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48101673) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 9:17 PM Author: ........,,,,,,......,.,.,.,,,,,,,,,, Sorry fixed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48101691) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 9:44 PM Author: samoth Right, but I'm asking about who's taking on liability for the n cases where there is damage, injury, or death, regardless of how small n is.
Let's assume your FSD car is less likely to get into an accident than you are. Let's also assume that the likeliness of an FSD car getting into an accident will never be zero. In the (unlikely but not impossible) event your FSD car kills someone, are you responsible? At what point would you be willing to say "yes?" And if your answer is "no," then who is responsible? Is that party going to be willing and able to take on such responsibility en masse? |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 9:47 PM Author: https://imgur.com/a/IkQnGlr There are either hundreds of volumes of entirely new case law being written about this as we speak, or everyone is going on autopilot and putting responsibility on the driver behind the wheel. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48101772) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 9:18 PM Author: Self-serious Macbook Airplane Girl 99% of driving now is defensive. what does the computer program do when a piss-drunk illegal guatamalan is about to t-bone you? can it do a j-turn or whatever? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48101695) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:08 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
If you're asking if Tesla FSD tech can brake / turn a car faster than a human can, the answer is "yes of course it can." Will that necessarily save you from a drunk spic flying through a red light? No, but then again, you also aren't going to be able to save yourself from that situation in every case either. Contrary to what Tesla Haters like to pretend, really bad shit didn't just suddenly start happening on our roads the minute Tesla rolled out its FSD system. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 10:43 PM Author: Sonic Jinner On further review there is a huge problem with FSD-- it's way too easy to fall asleep behind the wheel.
This is the pink elephant in the room and explains why Tesla keeps adding more cameras inside the car.
My prediction is that FSD is never fully adopted until it's safe enough for 0 attention span. Otherwise it's dangerous as fuck because it induces proles to sleep. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 10:59 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
FSD will be normalized and adopted just as soon as (((car insurance companies))) decide it's in their financial interest to collectively lobby and push for that outcome. Which means it only has to be demonstrably safer than the average human driver. You can bank on that happening within the next few years (frankly we're already there, but let's give it a few more years because more people need to experience it like the OP in order to start spreading the word and helping to pave the way towards broader social acceptance).
People screaming about how FSD needs to be 99.999999999% safe are the 2024 equivalent of the old fogies standing around their mainstreet horse watering troughs back in 1904 ranting about how "these danged gasoline-powered auto-mobiles shouldn't even be allowed on the roads because they just go too gott-darn fast!!!!" LJL yeah, Ford will never sell a million Model-T's and usher in the automobile age now! |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:08 PM Author: Wang Hernandez Not sure if that makes sense for insurance companies. Eliminating car accidents and thus the demand for the product seems like a bad idea. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48102100) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:12 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
Accidents will of course continue to happen for the foreseeable future, and as a result drivers will continue to be legally required to carry car insurance policies for the foreseeable future. It will be generations before any of that changes. Insurance companies know that -- they just want to find a way to pay out less and less to increase their profitability as much as possible, and FSD is their golden ticket to achieving those cost savings in the short and medium-term future. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:33 PM Author: Wang Hernandez Yes people will still be required to have insurance but as the risk of accidents decreases so will the demand for larger policies with greater premiums. The big money makers for the insurer. And so it isn’t in the insurance companies interest for their to be less accidents. The best outcome for insurance companies is lots of accidents at a predictable rates so the actuaries can make reliable risk calculations, but not so expensive that people will stop driving.
If risk decreases while insurance companies try to keep rates high and price gouge others will see the opportunity to make money by undercutting them. |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:51 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
TWIST: There will be several decades where both human drivers and FSD tech will be operating simultaneously on common roads, and throughout that entire time there will easily be more than enough accidents to continue to "justify" state legislatures imposing high mandated premiums on drivers across America (which is exactly what insurance companies will continue to demand and exactly what they will get).
You seem to be operating under the assumption that in 2024, insurance companies are going "shit, what will this industry look like in 2070?" rather than thinking "hmmmm what can we be doing in the next few years to position ourselves to make the 2030s are the most profitable decade we've ever seen?" That's rill retarded, sir.
Also, you sound like some sort of autistic libertarian retard or something with this "If insurance rates rise too much then people will stop driving, it's a balancing act!" lmao no they won't, if insurance rates 10x'd tomorrow most people would simply stop buying insurance and start driving uninsured (even if it was illegal to do so). Imagine being so naive or out of touch that you think otherwise. Most people in this country need to drive in order to go to work, go to the store, take their kids to soccer practice or the dentist, etc. Short of the apocalypse happening, there's simply no future timeline where they're going to stop doing those things, and they need to drive in order to get them done. |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 12:48 AM Author: Wang Hernandez lol at your Yosemite Sam ass fuming because I pointed out how retarded your point is and your complete failure to refute my fundamental point that insurance companies won’t lobby to crater the demand in their industry.
No they won’t be able to keep premiums high as insurance demand craters because other companies can make a buck undermining those high premiums and they will lose all their business.
Your post is a long red herring. I never said people would stop driving or everyone would adopt FSD (which I think is great btw. |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 4:15 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
You're literally too retarded to merit a further response.
"Ackkkkshually, insurance companies WANT to pay out on policies -- trust me, I know these things!!!"
Haha yeah haha sure thing bud |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:12 PM Author: Sonic Jinner He's talking about FSD being normalized. You're talking about it being mandated. That's much further on the timeline (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48102116) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:42 PM Author: Wang Hernandez It really doesn’t make a difference, the point is that making car accidents significantly less common is not good for insurance companies. They won’t lobby for it, obviously, contrary to TBF. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48102245) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:48 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
Lmao imagine being dumb enough to type this out. |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 12:02 AM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... Yeah, insurance companies absolutely hate it when they get to rake in premium dollars without paying any claims. They much prefer to have to spend all their premiums on claims rather than fat bonuses for themselves. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48102305) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 12:04 AM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48102315) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 12:46 AM Author: Wang Hernandez are you stupid as fuck? It would fundamentally change the business model as the demand for insurance dives and so do the premiums, how they make money. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48102478) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 11:08 AM Author: Let\'s dispel with this fiction Yeh Warren Buffett (owns Geico) even said that if Tesla achieves FSD, it would be good for society and bad for the insurance industry. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48103449) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 2:53 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... Oh dear God. I love it when absolute morons accuse others of stupidity. Yeah, insurance companies absolutely hate it when their customers get in fewer accidents and they have to pay fewer claims. That's why my rates went up so much when I downloaded my insurance company's app so that they can evaluate whether or not I'm driving safely.
To be extremely charitable, maybe some day there will be a utopia where every car is self-driving and accidents become rare or non-existent. But if that happens at all, it is decades away in the absolute best case scenario. Every insurance executive in the country will be long retired before that becomes an issue. In the meantime, these executives will always be happier paying fewer claims. I'm pretty sure it's only a matter of time before you can get insurance discounts by showing that you have an advanced driver assistance system in your car. |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 2:57 PM Author: a certain dog being eaten by feral haitian (gunneratttt) you're very, very dumb. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48104744) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 6:21 PM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48105760) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 4:16 PM Author: Gay Grandpa The problem is that "demand" is driven by government. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48105172) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 4:17 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
(Guy who isn't a total mouthbreathing retard like "Wang Hernandez") |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:04 PM Author: tim heidegger yay you have 10 more minutes to consume gc slop on your phone bc ur too gay to drive (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48102087) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:06 PM Author: pwnpwnpwn I drove a new top-end Audi for a few weeks this summer and while not FSD, the adaptive cruise control shit was greatly improved over my 5 year old Porsche. It was very helpful for getting through everyday bad traffic without worrying about accidentally rear-ending someone. And it gave helpful steering correction/feedback when I wasn’t looking at the road or was too close to the dividing line or shoulder a few times. I could see myself getting FSD to use in these situations where you’re on the highway in an otherwise stressful (but ultimately boring) scenario. It was WAY less mentally draining than having to constantly be shifting from gas to brake, let alone rowing gears in an older manual Porsche with a heavy ass clutch. I know a lot of people who live in Greenwich and commute to the city by car who say Tesla FSD is a total game changer for their commute and stress levels. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48102092) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:10 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
People who are like "yeah I tried cruise control in a Kia a few years back, it was whatever so fuck it I don't need Tesla's FSD" are so retarded on this issue that they genuinely don't even merit a response. It's like arguing with a blind person about whether [X] is a good color combination. Why bother?
Haha yeah I remember listening to a radio program one time back in the 1940s and it was kinda meh, so fuck "the Internet." |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:15 PM Author: cock of michael obama FSD is likely the future (promised a decade ago) but the *passion* that TBF shows sucking eron's cock is bemusing. between hating jews, loving jewish financial scams, loving classical music and loving butt-riding erooonnn, we have everything he loves and hates in the world in a nice tight box (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48102125) |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:15 PM Author: To be fair (Semi-Retarded) To be fair,
TY |
|
Date: September 17th, 2024 11:16 PM Author: cock of michael obama (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48102134) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 12:03 AM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48102310) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 10:33 AM Author: ''''''"'''"" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48103312) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 3:59 PM Author: Sealhenry Samuel (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48105045) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 12:41 AM Author: Gay Grandpa You left out a breakfast sandwich (hate) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48102466) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 4:00 PM Author: Sealhenry Samuel Okay, I lol’d (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48105048) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 2:59 PM Author: a certain dog being eaten by feral haitian (gunneratttt) it's incredibly cool but it drives like an old lady. obviously it has a lot of potential but i don't personally see the value when i have autosteer for the highway and FSD is coming to a complete full stop at every stop sign in the city. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48104754) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 4:02 PM Author: Sonic Jinner It's amazing for stop and go and several hours on the same freeway.
Otherwise it's just as annoying as anyone else driving worse or slower than you would |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 4:07 PM Author: a certain dog being eaten by feral haitian (gunneratttt) but the stop-and-go shit is already perfect with autosteer. that's the time you need FSD the least since you won't be doing a lot of merging or turning. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48105098) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 6:21 PM Author: Sonic Jinner I think they downgraded the free "cruise control" mode so it's not as close to FSD experience anymore (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48105759) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 6:25 PM Author: .;:..;:.;.:.;.,,,..,.:,.;....;,;;;..;,..,,.,,...., But with autosteer, you must keep your hands on the wheel (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48105775) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 6:26 PM Author: a certain dog being eaten by feral haitian (gunneratttt) i got just as many "keep hands on the wheel!" nags during the FSD trial as i do with autosteer (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48105780) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 6:28 PM Author: .;:..;:.;.:.;.,,,..,.:,.;....;,;;;..;,..,,.,,...., I thought they fixed that with the new FSD update? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48105788) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 6:35 PM Author: a certain dog being eaten by feral haitian (gunneratttt) maybe, my only experience with it was the trial from a few months ago. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48105812) |
|
Date: September 18th, 2024 7:00 PM Author: https://imgur.com/a/IkQnGlr Good goy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5595873&forum_id=2...id.#48105918) |