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Indian bros : explain Krishna’s “I am become death” moment in the Gita
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Date: January 27th, 2025 10:58 AM Author: fluid (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48594416) |
Date: January 27th, 2025 11:04 AM Author: ChadGPT-5 he said that right after he was about to blow up the Ganges River upon consuming some leaves and spices. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48594429) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 11:11 AM Author: fluid Well you’d assume Oppenheimer had to have gotten the context right so I’ll take your word on this one (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48594472) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 11:25 AM Author: ChadGPT-5 deleted nuke scene from the movie:
https://x.com/9mm_smg/status/1883908132830896630 |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 11:18 AM Author: Greetings Not an Indian bro, but do you mean the linguistic curiosity of "I am become"? Or do you mean the plot of the story?
If the former, English used to form the past (perfect) tense the way German still does. Namely, most verbs get "to have" as the auxiliary, but some (incl. "to become") get "to be" as the auxiliary. This construction appears in Shakespeare and the KJV and I forget which Christmas song says "Christ the savior is come!" (German still uses "to be" as the auxiliary with "to go", so they say "I am gone" where we say "I have gone" or "I went").
Anyway, we don't do it anymore, but like so many ancient phrasings, we still use it to sound fancy or important. |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 11:53 AM Author: fluid I mean like why is the revelation of Krishna’s Universal Form so transformational? Is it because he is thought of as a Spiritual Guide for the entire book then suddenly it’s revealed hes the most powerful entity in the cosmos? But why does that cause a feeling of “death” like is it a symbolic death? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48594602) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 11:55 AM Author: https://i.imgur.com/EWp3mJ8.jpeg Because death is just one stage in a repeating cycle. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48594612) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 12:02 PM Author: fluid Yeah I get that part but I see the revelation that Krishna embodies infinite creation and destruction differently, if someone told me that I wouldn’t feel that I had transformed to “death”. That reaction seems off from how the context hits for me (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48594643) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 11:21 AM Author: https://i.imgur.com/EWp3mJ8.jpeg Without a primer in Hindu cosmology it's not going to make a whole lot of sense (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48594505) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 11:59 AM Author: fluid That’s what I mean like from what I understood it seems Krishna was embodying The Guide archetype. When he reveals his Universal Form suddenly he is seen as a veritable Cosmic Engine responsible for infinite cycles of birth and death and rebirth (not just for humans but for All). But why is the reaction to that “I am become death? Like I understand it’s cool to find out Krishna is the most powerful entity in the cosmos but the transforming to death part doesn’t make sense to me from a Western perspective. Does death have a different symboloc meaning in that tradition where it is more like an ultimate realization? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48594630) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 2:00 PM Author: https://i.imgur.com/EWp3mJ8.jpeg You can't bring chaos into order if there's no chaos in the first place. You have to become dirt before you can be animated. Arjuna needs to understand that genocide is ok.
Also, just because Krishna is talking doesn't mean you can forget about Siva. |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 2:22 PM Author: fluid But does he have to become dirt or is he already dirt and him realizing that is part of what brings on the transformation?
“Arjuna needs to understand that genocide is ok” - I read that part differently, I thought Arjunas issue in the first place is that he is focusing on the material too much by dithering about genocide and Krishna is telling him he is missing the forest for the trees and should look at the metaphysical and cosmic implications. Not “Genocide is okay”, but “you’re a drop in the ocean compared to the Universe.
Also the part about Siva talking - isn’t that basically your point about needing Chaos first? But doesn’t Krishna’s Ultimate Form already represent a dance between chaos and dharma so I don’t get why you guys also have a separate archetype for pure chaos. What’s the difference between what Krishna already does and wher Siva does? |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 2:31 PM Author: https://i.imgur.com/EWp3mJ8.jpeg If you want to get into the "but why do we even need Siva?" debate I'm not there for you. I think the book and the religion are pure shit.
But also, Arjuna doesn't have some actual cosmic task in front of him, nor did the people who wrote the story, nor anyone who's lived since. Those people were concerned only with killing other people. That's the choice they had in front of them. |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 11:40 AM Author: Brussels Sprout: Brussels,Helsinki,Stockholm,Kyiv in the ancient Sanskrit it means something like being in time I thus destroy the world (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48594551) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 12:06 PM Author: fluid Ohh okay that actually makes much more sense then. I had AI translate it real quick after you told me this and it said a literal translation would be : “I am Time, the great destroyer of worlds, fully expanded, here to annihilate all things” but that it has layers of meaning due to the cosmology and if you emphasize cycles of time or rebirth something like : “I am Time, the devourer of worlds, come forth to dissolve and renew the cosmos.” works (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48594660) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 12:11 PM Author: Brussels Sprout: Brussels,Helsinki,Stockholm,Kyiv Oppenheimer in the movie mistranslated the original Sanskrit -- now u know better (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48594672) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 12:17 PM Author: fluid Foucault would say he “did violence” to the original by not including dualities of meaning like with Pharmakon as poison and cure in Ancient Greek or like Smintheus Apollo in the Iliad when he unleashed arrows as plague and the later idealized classical Apollo is used instead. What do you think of Foucaults take here? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48594690) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 12:20 PM Author: Brussels Sprout: Brussels,Helsinki,Stockholm,Kyiv Foucault would acknowledge the counter intuitive recognition that the act of destruction and creation are one in the same occurring in the past, present, and future by and through the subject/subjectivity (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48594708) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 12:26 PM Author: fluid Ahhh, exactly. Seems he would have to point out our ideas of birth and death as being opposites in the West erase meaning when applied to other metaphysical systems. Foucault would argue that this is emblematic of how dominant power systems co-opt and neutralize the radical potential of other knowledge systems. By reducing kāla to “Death,” the original fluidity of creation-destruction is boxed into a rigid framework that serves the narrative of scientific triumph and existential dread (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48594721) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 12:29 PM Author: Brussels Sprout: Brussels,Helsinki,Stockholm,Kyiv Foucault would be quick to point out that Oppenheimer's misprision of the sacred text reveals the West's hidden/masked forms of power which is very bad karma indeed (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48594734) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 12:43 PM Author: lex are you thinking derrida here? (plato's pharmacy) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48594777) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 2:03 PM Author: fluid Yeah good call I mix those two up sometimes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48595078) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 2:29 PM Author: lex Despite foucault’s penchant for getting fisted by mehicans in sf alleys before it was de rigueur, Derrida is somehow much gayer imo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48595167) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 5:58 PM Author: scholarship (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48595968) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 2:38 PM Author: https://i.imgur.com/EWp3mJ8.jpeg Foucault is guilty of worse crimes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48595198) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 12:06 PM Author: Tutu-fueled Red PissWang Rampage It's the standard Hindi phrase for when you've left the buffet and are now heading for the squat-toilet (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48594663) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 12:28 PM Author: fluid What’s a squat toilet? I always just use a river or side street (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48594729) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 1:39 PM Author: Tutu-fueled Red PissWang Rampage it's a hole in the ground that indians squat over to shit. it's only used by the most-elite high caste brahmins (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48594979) |
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Date: January 27th, 2025 2:04 PM Author: fluid Sounds 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5671174&forum_id=2...id.#48595082) |