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Cow Goes Moo: Was that "better off in that instant of time" thin

g the other day a misunderstanding? I don't want to straw ma...
Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter
  03/01/12
...
Zippy Amethyst Hominid
  03/31/12
He was sincere bro. Austrians make that claim all the time.
Aromatic impressive senate half-breed
  03/01/12
Wow
Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter
  03/01/12
what's the reasoning below it?
cowardly heaven mental disorder
  03/01/12
They can't bring themselves to concede that unregulated trad...
Aromatic impressive senate half-breed
  03/01/12
and their idea of what is efficient is rooted in the idea of...
cowardly heaven mental disorder
  03/01/12
It goes a step beyond that. It's not just that individuals k...
Aromatic impressive senate half-breed
  03/02/12
What about obvious market failures like pollution?
mischievous dilemma
  03/02/12
Just do sue the polluters bro.
greedy native
  03/02/12
What if there are multiple polluters and you can't show that...
Amber Stage
  03/02/12
Just do Summers v. Tice
greedy native
  03/02/12
tyft
Orange stag film crotch
  06/13/13
...
ocher love of her life
  04/27/14
...
Aromatic impressive senate half-breed
  12/21/18
there is no such thing as market failure bro. i derived this...
effete bistre selfie stock car
  03/02/12
Oh what a praexologist!
greedy native
  03/02/12
First: Define Market Failure
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
Privatized gains, socialized costs
mischievous dilemma
  03/02/12
Ofcourse those exist. When you have a gov't that almost excl...
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
How about like government caps of the amount of king crab pe...
mischievous dilemma
  03/02/12
180
Self-absorbed black organic girlfriend cruise ship
  06/17/18
tcr
hyperactive nowag striped hyena
  03/31/12
shouldve thought about that before you bought the polluter's...
galvanic lay
  06/13/13
lol, just lol @ this retard
Zippy Amethyst Hominid
  03/01/12
...
Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter
  03/02/12
I'm curious why you don't answer. Is it not a gaping hole in...
Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter
  03/02/12
I thought it wouldn't be true in the case of fraud, right? S...
Soul-stirring Insecure Ticket Booth Toaster
  03/02/12
They were better off AT THE TIME THE TRADE OCCURRED..
Aromatic impressive senate half-breed
  03/02/12
How?
Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter
  03/02/12
Even if they go to a rite-aid, and get an advil bottle but i...
Soul-stirring Insecure Ticket Booth Toaster
  03/02/12
Paultards claim that that just won't happen, because Rite-Ai...
Aromatic impressive senate half-breed
  03/02/12
Or they could sue rite-aid in special private courts, and ri...
greedy native
  03/02/12
then how is rite-aid better off?
purple razzle-dazzle lodge
  03/02/12
well, if youre dead you cant sue also, but yeah your family ...
galvanic lay
  06/13/13
A fairly brief critique of AE from a gmu faculty member http...
Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter
  03/02/12
I made the mistake of going into specifics w/r/t praxeology....
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
that's weak as hell man why don't you just say, I'm not c...
Fragrant know-it-all church
  03/02/12
Do I need to repost the responses I got in the AE perspectiv...
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
What was your response?
Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter
  03/02/12
I didn't, there were legtimately 20 responses of that exact ...
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
oh so "there is no 'objectively better off'" is a ...
purple razzle-dazzle lodge
  03/02/12
Can you formulate a premise where there is such a notion? We...
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
so it seems strange to you to say that the person who traded...
Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter
  03/02/12
I don't know what "mistakenly" means in this conte...
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
but that person is better off?
Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter
  03/02/12
The think they are. My own personal opinion does not play in...
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
What if the big mac is tainted with e. coli?
greedy native
  03/02/12
What about Objectivism? Does it share the Austrian's denial ...
Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter
  03/02/12
"They depend on being true regardless of what you think...
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
Uh no. It may or may not be true that I have a long red bear...
Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter
  03/02/12
Exactly, so, if you want to make a claim regarding whether o...
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
But surely you can admit that there are certainly times when...
Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter
  03/02/12
"But surely you can admit that there are certainly time...
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
but you are aware of fraud etc. you don't think that at leas...
Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter
  03/02/12
Fraud is theft. Theft is not voluntary. Therefore, it does n...
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
What if the party selling the defective item doesn't know it...
Amber Stage
  03/02/12
...
Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter
  03/02/12
Sorry, I thought about it for 29 seconds. Would have kept at...
Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter
  03/02/12
you're stupid and unimaginative to boot. let's say the ...
purple razzle-dazzle lodge
  03/02/12
Can you formulate a premise where there is such a notion? We...
purple razzle-dazzle lodge
  03/02/12
Objectively subjectively
mischievous dilemma
  03/02/12
Yes, as in by vitrue of the trade ocurring we know, for what...
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
If "we know" it it's not subjective.
Amber Stage
  03/02/12
If you like apples more than oranges. I "know" you...
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
Right, so we can say it's objectively true that the parities...
Amber Stage
  03/02/12
Where two parities to a trade derive utility (measured as wi...
Amber Stage
  03/02/12
Why don't you just pick one of the responses? Why does it ha...
greedy native
  03/02/12
Because then the morons on this bort, like you, will assume ...
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
But by refusing to answer them all you just give everyone th...
greedy native
  03/02/12
...
Amber Stage
  03/02/12
do you even consider the possibility that the person you're ...
Fragrant know-it-all church
  03/02/12
Of course, which is why my first posts tend to clearly be wr...
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
moreover, its weak as hell to post a bunch of links and then...
Fragrant know-it-all church
  03/02/12
Context brother, the post I responded to was: ---------...
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
"I'm not going to engage in a flame war with a dozen mo...
Orange stag film crotch
  03/02/12
only stupid people can believe that austrian economics is al...
effete bistre selfie stock car
  03/02/12
link where it is not?
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
do you ever cite anything other than the mises.org forums
heady mentally impaired national
  03/02/12
praxeology - that's the thing where you assume your conclusi...
Orange stag film crotch
  03/02/12
...
Irradiated Weed Whacker
  04/27/14
...
cowardly heaven mental disorder
  12/21/18
>hat is beyond the scope of this bort's abilities th...
hyperactive nowag striped hyena
  03/31/12
Missed this argument. What was it?
Sexy rehab
  03/02/12
Date: February 28th, 2012 5:29 PM Author: Cow goes Moo &q...
greedy native
  03/02/12
I'm confused. He can't be arguing that transactions in whic...
Sexy rehab
  03/02/12
He says he won't explain why he's right because we wouldn't ...
greedy native
  03/02/12
He does eat 12 McDoubles for breakfast every day and is stil...
Navy gaming laptop
  09/23/21
and of course he's above such silliness. oh xoxo small thin...
purple razzle-dazzle lodge
  03/02/12
First, nobody here has perfect information, nor is there suc...
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
How does it follow that since both parties think they're bet...
Amber Stage
  03/02/12
There is no "actually" better off. In order to con...
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
If there's no "actually" better off how can you cl...
Amber Stage
  03/02/12
Because it's one if the premises he used to formulate his ar...
Orange stag film crotch
  03/02/12
Oh. Okay. I mean no one ever has perfect information, of c...
Sexy rehab
  03/02/12
"Oh. Okay. I mean no one ever has perfect information, ...
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
so $10 is not objectively better than $1?
purple razzle-dazzle lodge
  03/02/12
We don't know what else was going on in that trade. What hap...
Bearded office indirect expression
  03/02/12
we do know because we made up the fucking hypothetical. no t...
purple razzle-dazzle lodge
  03/02/12
this guy questions the fucking hypo jesus christ lol
rose school ceo
  06/13/13
"Yes, there is little doubt that people have been indoc...
Amber Stage
  03/02/12
Insulin is not better than Krokodil? Life is not better t...
Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter
  03/02/12
getting fucked unlubed in the asshole by a big dicked nigger...
heady mentally impaired national
  03/02/12
I mean yeah, people have been "indoctrinated" to t...
Sexy rehab
  03/02/12
he doesn't want to hear this shit. its not on mises.org read...
hyperactive nowag striped hyena
  03/31/12
hardcore austrians, a great source of circular reasoning and...
heady mentally impaired national
  03/31/12
...
Zippy Amethyst Hominid
  04/11/12
...
crimson degenerate milk
  04/14/12
...
Sick center mad cow disease
  06/13/13
...
Zippy Amethyst Hominid
  07/14/13
...
Zippy Amethyst Hominid
  04/27/14
...
Self-absorbed black organic girlfriend cruise ship
  06/17/18


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: March 1st, 2012 6:54 PM
Author: Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter

g the other day a misunderstanding? I don't want to straw man you--you seem like a very sincere guy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20100777)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2012 3:00 PM
Author: Zippy Amethyst Hominid



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20353609)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 1st, 2012 7:14 PM
Author: Aromatic impressive senate half-breed

He was sincere bro. Austrians make that claim all the time.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20100902)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 1st, 2012 7:17 PM
Author: Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter

Wow

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20100917)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 1st, 2012 7:21 PM
Author: cowardly heaven mental disorder

what's the reasoning below it?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20100949)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 1st, 2012 7:52 PM
Author: Aromatic impressive senate half-breed

They can't bring themselves to concede that unregulated trade sometimes produces inefficient outcomes, so they will claim that every voluntary exchange is "by definition" maximally efficient.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20101198)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 1st, 2012 8:06 PM
Author: cowardly heaven mental disorder

and their idea of what is efficient is rooted in the idea of personal freedom, right? like the state can never know what their interests are, only the free individual acts on their own interests?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20101306)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 9:56 AM
Author: Aromatic impressive senate half-breed

It goes a step beyond that. It's not just that individuals know best what their interests are, but that it's impossible for outside observers to say whether those interests have been served. We just have to assume that if the exchange was voluntary and unregulated it made both parties better off, because Austrians have already decided that free trade is a magic bullet that cures all our problems and makes baby jesus sing.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104639)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 1:57 PM
Author: mischievous dilemma

What about obvious market failures like pollution?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20105951)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:06 PM
Author: greedy native

Just do sue the polluters bro.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106010)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:58 PM
Author: Amber Stage

What if there are multiple polluters and you can't show that pollution from any single one of then caused your loss?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106323)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:58 PM
Author: greedy native

Just do Summers v. Tice

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106329)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 13th, 2013 12:35 PM
Author: Orange stag film crotch

tyft

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#23387232)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 27th, 2014 11:52 PM
Author: ocher love of her life



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#25461644)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 21st, 2018 11:13 AM
Author: Aromatic impressive senate half-breed



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#37446740)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:36 PM
Author: effete bistre selfie stock car

there is no such thing as market failure bro. i derived this deductively from the fundamental axiom that there is no such things as market failure. sorry little breh

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106197)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:49 PM
Author: greedy native

Oh what a praexologist!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106261)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:53 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

First: Define Market Failure

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106288)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:54 PM
Author: mischievous dilemma

Privatized gains, socialized costs

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106297)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:56 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

Ofcourse those exist. When you have a gov't that almost exclusively privatizes gains to special interest groups and socializes the costs.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106308)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 5:18 PM
Author: mischievous dilemma

How about like government caps of the amount of king crab people can catch per year? Do you expect Eywa to sue over this?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20107324)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2018 9:36 PM
Author: Self-absorbed black organic girlfriend cruise ship

180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#36262833)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2012 4:27 PM
Author: hyperactive nowag striped hyena

tcr

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20354222)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 13th, 2013 12:45 PM
Author: galvanic lay

shouldve thought about that before you bought the polluter's p[roduct bro. you need to know everything about everything if you want free markets to work in your favor.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#23387303)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 1st, 2012 8:04 PM
Author: Zippy Amethyst Hominid

lol, just lol @ this retard

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20101286)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 9:31 AM
Author: Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104571)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 9:52 AM
Author: Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter

I'm curious why you don't answer. Is it not a gaping hole in the foundation of your belief system?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104625)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 9:55 AM
Author: Soul-stirring Insecure Ticket Booth Toaster

I thought it wouldn't be true in the case of fraud, right? So people saying that you got krokodil instead of advil wouldn't be better off, right?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104635)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 9:56 AM
Author: Aromatic impressive senate half-breed

They were better off AT THE TIME THE TRADE OCCURRED..

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104645)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 9:57 AM
Author: Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter

How?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104647)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 10:14 AM
Author: Soul-stirring Insecure Ticket Booth Toaster

Even if they go to a rite-aid, and get an advil bottle but instead it has cyanide and it kills them? All the paultards I know are all about fraud being a consumer defense against stuff like that. Is this where the orthodox austrians deviate from garden variety paultards?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104737)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 10:16 AM
Author: Aromatic impressive senate half-breed

Paultards claim that that just won't happen, because Rite-Aid would go out if business if it sold poison disguised a medicine. So, like, just don't worry about it okay?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104747)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 10:19 AM
Author: greedy native

Or they could sue rite-aid in special private courts, and rite-aid would have to comply with the private court's judgment or else they would be shamed and ostracized in the business community.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104767)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 1:56 PM
Author: purple razzle-dazzle lodge

then how is rite-aid better off?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20105937)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 13th, 2013 12:47 PM
Author: galvanic lay

well, if youre dead you cant sue also, but yeah your family could slut shame rite-aid

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#23387314)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 9:59 AM
Author: Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter

A fairly brief critique of AE from a gmu faculty member http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/bcaplan/whyaust.htm

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104657)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 10:21 AM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

I made the mistake of going into specifics w/r/t praxeology. That is beyond the scope of this bort's abilities. People have done zero anaylsis or research or even the have vaguest notion of AE and the discussions surrounding it. It is a fools errand to try and defend something against people who do not even know what that "something" is. But in case you are really interested w/r/t the counters to the article:

http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/15660/321521.aspx#321521

http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/414/417807.aspx#417807

http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/18726/353487.aspx#353487

http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/3841/52612.aspx#52612



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104779)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:31 PM
Author: Fragrant know-it-all church

that's weak as hell man

why don't you just say, I'm not changing my mind about anything no matter how persuasively you out argue me

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106158)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:43 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

Do I need to repost the responses I got in the AE perspective on trade thread?

Morons going: "HERP DERP if Tom trade $1 for Steve's $10 how is he better off?"

I have 100% no problem having a reasoned debate with a couple of people in a thread. But I am not going to engage in a flame war with a dozen morons are making posts which clearly indicate they have read zero of the relevant subject matter.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106234)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:45 PM
Author: Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter

What was your response?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106239)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:47 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

I didn't, there were legtimately 20 responses of that exact calibre, I am not going to get into two dozen subthread arguments with people who do not even grasp the basics.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106249)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:50 PM
Author: purple razzle-dazzle lodge

oh so "there is no 'objectively better off'" is a basic given. got it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106265)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:51 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

Can you formulate a premise where there is such a notion? We can say that two people trading with each other are at that point in time objectively subjectively better off. But otherwise? rofl no.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106274)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:53 PM
Author: Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter

so it seems strange to you to say that the person who traded $10 for $1 mistakenly is worse off objectively?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106289)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:55 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

I don't know what "mistakenly" means in this context. None of us has perfect information or can see into the future.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106302)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:56 PM
Author: Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter

but that person is better off?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106310)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:58 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

The think they are. My own personal opinion does not play into the assesment. Look, if someone goes and buys a greasy BigMac, are they better or worse off? The answer of course is that they are better off in their own mind. Any other scale is irrelevant.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106325)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:00 PM
Author: greedy native

What if the big mac is tainted with e. coli?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106344)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:01 PM
Author: Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter

What about Objectivism? Does it share the Austrian's denial of objective truth?

Btw "objective" facts don't depend on perfect information. They depend on being true regardless of what you think is the case, naddimean?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106353)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:05 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

"They depend on being true regardless of what you think is the case, naddimean?"

And the only way they can be "true" regardless of what one thinks is if you have all the information availible.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106385)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:07 PM
Author: Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter

Uh no. It may or may not be true that I have a long red beard, but it's truth doesn't depend on what info we have

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106416)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:10 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

Exactly, so, if you want to make a claim regarding whether or not you objectively have a long red beard, we would need to know ALL relevant information in order to make that assesment. Hence, so long as humans do not posses the power of God, we cannot come to this objective determination with respect and the value of one item to another for trade because we cannot enter the mind of both parties.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106443)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:12 PM
Author: Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter

But surely you can admit that there are certainly times when people are made worse off by trading, even if you don't believe you can say for certain which times those are

And likewise, if you can't say people are worse off, shouldn't you be similarly unwilling to say they are better off?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106462)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:24 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

"But surely you can admit that there are certainly times when people are made worse off by trading"

Not at all. I think getting beaten with a spiked wooden paddle and getting choked are both horrible and should be avoided. But that does not mean that when I see someone voluntarily paying a women to perform such actions I can conclude that are "worse off".

"shouldn't you be similarly unwilling to say they are better off?"

I only claim to suggest that from that persons own perspective they are better off. Nothing else is relevant.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106559)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:25 PM
Author: Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter

but you are aware of fraud etc. you don't think that at least once this has made someone worse off?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106571)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:30 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

Fraud is theft. Theft is not voluntary. Therefore, it does not fall under my original assertion.

You would have realized this had you thought about it for 30 seconds. This is why I made the post I did above.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106607)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:32 PM
Author: Amber Stage

What if the party selling the defective item doesn't know it's defective?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106621)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:34 PM
Author: Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106648)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:33 PM
Author: Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter

Sorry, I thought about it for 29 seconds. Would have kept at it of I had known there would be a payoff.

Excluding fraud, you don't think people are sometimes mademworse off by their transactions? Don't you think it's extremely likely that this happens all the time?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106631)



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Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:05 PM
Author: purple razzle-dazzle lodge

you're stupid and unimaginative to boot.

let's say the $1 is in a blue envelope and the $10 is in a red envelope. they trade because the guy with the red envelope prefers a blue envelope and thinks there's also $10 in it. he could also buy a blue envelope for $1 if he wanted. at the instant moment of the trade, how is he not objectively worse off?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106383)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:53 PM
Author: purple razzle-dazzle lodge

Can you formulate a premise where there is such a notion? We can say that two people trading with each other are at that point in time objectively subjectively better off. But otherwise? rofl no.

wat

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106294)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:53 PM
Author: mischievous dilemma

Objectively subjectively

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106295)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:57 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

Yes, as in by vitrue of the trade ocurring we know, for whatever reason, they feel they are better off (i.e. subjectively) as a result.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106317)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:08 PM
Author: Amber Stage

If "we know" it it's not subjective.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106424)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:32 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

If you like apples more than oranges. I "know" your subjective preference.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:ExKzmwhOwOwJ:mises.org/journals/qjae/pdf/qjae14_2_4.pdf+praxeology+subjective+value&hl=en&gl=ca&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgvnaHXyyulgeJOO8uxBZID3g-OHykIDAELz2qGfD_yxKtUO52Xly_0Ls3I2KMb_t2YDfQYEBTRDBEs5AS-VC2vHxFcvgsGhLZsuBVDKEfNPYkktR_ompfErsUGaX2Whj7BIn4q&sig=AHIEtbTL7jzaXoXHxavIuhv6tl3_AGzOFw

Good article on subjective values

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106622)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:40 PM
Author: Amber Stage

Right, so we can say it's objectively true that the parities are better off, because we can know objectively whether the parties valued apples more than oranges.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106680)



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Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:35 PM
Author: Amber Stage

Where two parities to a trade derive utility (measured as willingness to pay) from the trade that exceeds the foregone utility of not conducting the trade, they are better off.

There, that wasn't hard.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106654)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:53 PM
Author: greedy native

Why don't you just pick one of the responses? Why does it have to be all or none?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106291)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:59 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

Because then the morons on this bort, like you, will assume I am picking the easy ones to counter and avoiding the "hard" ones. Remeber, you are the same idiot who thinks RP must be hiding something because he is does not want to release his tax returns.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106337)



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Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:02 PM
Author: greedy native

But by refusing to answer them all you just give everyone the impression that you're totally stumped and can't answer any of them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106363)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:43 PM
Author: Amber Stage



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106716)



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Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:47 PM
Author: Fragrant know-it-all church

do you even consider the possibility that the person you're debating might have something to teach you?

that you might have room to learn and grow as an intellectual?

or is it always "I'm the expert, I'll prove them wrong"?



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106248)



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Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:48 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

Of course, which is why my first posts tend to clearly be written with that perspective. The problem is when I see a 20 second response crafted by someone who clearly knows nothing of the topic. It would be like me attacking Keynesians without having read the General Theory and the various accompanying works. Even then there are numerous instances where I have engaged in a productive discussion but I cannot do it when it is x20 within the same thread.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106258)



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Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:50 PM
Author: Fragrant know-it-all church

moreover, its weak as hell to post a bunch of links and then say, go read that, then you'll understand,

if you can't explain it in plain english, then you're the one who's full of shit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106267)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:52 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

Context brother, the post I responded to was:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: March 2nd, 2012 9:59 AM

Author: painfully insecure dweeb

A fairly brief critique of AE from a gmu faculty member http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/bcaplan/whyaust.htm

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104657)

If that article has already been totally refuted by others, why would I need to post my own response?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106285)



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Date: March 2nd, 2012 5:12 PM
Author: Orange stag film crotch

"I'm not going to engage in a flame war with a dozen morons are making posts which clearly indicate they have read zero of the relevant subject matter."

I see no indication you've read the GMU article. Have you read it?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20107295)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:33 PM
Author: effete bistre selfie stock car

only stupid people can believe that austrian economics is all derived using "deductive logic" from fundamental axioms

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106170)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:44 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

link where it is not?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106236)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:07 PM
Author: heady mentally impaired national

do you ever cite anything other than the mises.org forums

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106409)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 5:09 PM
Author: Orange stag film crotch

praxeology - that's the thing where you assume your conclusions, right?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20107278)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 27th, 2014 11:19 PM
Author: Irradiated Weed Whacker



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#25461450)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 21st, 2018 11:33 AM
Author: cowardly heaven mental disorder



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#37446902)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2012 4:29 PM
Author: hyperactive nowag striped hyena

>hat is beyond the scope of this bort's abilities

these are not new ideas to the people on the board you pedantic fuck. you have been brainwashed. we are pointing that out. please kill yourself.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20354239)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:03 PM
Author: Sexy rehab

Missed this argument. What was it?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106368)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:04 PM
Author: greedy native

Date: February 28th, 2012 5:29 PM Author: Cow goes Moo

"in that instant of time"

Can you not fucking read?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1885751&forum_id=2#20076411)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106378)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:09 PM
Author: Sexy rehab

I'm confused. He can't be arguing that transactions in which you have poor information about what you're getting (a bad product, a bad investment) such that, were you to know otherwise, you would not enter into that transaction, make you better off by definition whenever you enter into them, because the transaction is voluntary. That's silliness.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106427)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:11 PM
Author: greedy native

He says he won't explain why he's right because we wouldn't understand, so we just have to take him at his word.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106449)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2021 6:48 AM
Author: Navy gaming laptop

He does eat 12 McDoubles for breakfast every day and is still alive, so we should implicitly trust him

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#43163062)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:12 PM
Author: purple razzle-dazzle lodge

and of course he's above such silliness. oh xoxo small thinkers!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106458)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:26 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

First, nobody here has perfect information, nor is there such a thing as "poor" information you either have perfect information or you do not. You cannot try and break it down into components.

Second, My claim is only that in the minds of both parties they feel that they themselves are enriched by the act of trade. No other conclusion can follow.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106579)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:30 PM
Author: Amber Stage

How does it follow that since both parties think they're better off, they actually are better off?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106608)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:33 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

There is no "actually" better off. In order to conlude that you would need to have an objective scale of wellness from which to base your assesment. I look forward to seeing such a scale.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106635)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:37 PM
Author: Amber Stage

If there's no "actually" better off how can you claim they're better off for having conducted the trade?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106662)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 5:14 PM
Author: Orange stag film crotch

Because it's one if the premises he used to formulate his argument. It's as clear cut an example of circular reasoning as I've seen since I took the LSAT.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20107303)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:30 PM
Author: Sexy rehab

Oh. Okay. I mean no one ever has perfect information, of course. So no one has information, then?

So what's this claim about being better off at that instant in time? By "better off at that instant in time" do you merely mean you feel better about, like, yourself and your life for at least an instant--however long that's supposed to be?

Completely tabling a discussion about whether what you've just put forward is, you know, useful or non-insane, you can see why people were a little confused by language like "better off," right? It's not like most folks, even smart ones, think "better off" inheres completely within the mind, without reference to external things. I mean, sure, some smart people do, but it's not exactly intuitive.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106610)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:39 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

"Oh. Okay. I mean no one ever has perfect information, of course. So no one has information, then? "

Nobody has perfect information, but also, you cannot say someone has "poor" information. You can only speak in relative terms (i.e. A has less info than B on product X).

"useful or non-insane, you can see why people were a little confused by language like "better off," right? It's not like most folks, even smart ones, think "better off" inheres completely within the mind, without reference to external things. I mean, sure, some smart people do, but it's not exactly intuitive."

Yes, there is little doubt that people have been indoctrinated to believe that there is an objective sense out there that determines things like "Better off". This falls within the same realm of people talking about "Greater Good", "Utility" and "What is best for other people". Same sort of nonsense stems from this inability to recognize that it is subjective and that these assertions cannot be made.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106674)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:40 PM
Author: purple razzle-dazzle lodge

so $10 is not objectively better than $1?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106684)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 4:02 PM
Author: Bearded office indirect expression

We don't know what else was going on in that trade. What happens if you have tax auditors looking into your wealth? What happens if you want to form a good relationship with the person? $10 is not objectively better than $1 because that does not occure in a vaccuum.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106855)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 4:04 PM
Author: purple razzle-dazzle lodge

we do know because we made up the fucking hypothetical. no taxes. relationship unchanged. it happens in a vacuum. are you that dense?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106868)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 13th, 2013 12:46 PM
Author: rose school ceo

this guy questions the fucking hypo jesus christ lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#23387313)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:41 PM
Author: Amber Stage

"Yes, there is little doubt that people have been indoctrinated to believe that there is an objective sense out there that determines things like "Better off"."

You're perpetuating the indoctrination by repeatedly asserting that both parities to a voluntary transaction must be better off.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106698)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:42 PM
Author: Vibrant Magenta Point Faggot Firefighter

Insulin is not better than Krokodil?

Life is not better than death?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106700)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 4:13 PM
Author: heady mentally impaired national

getting fucked unlubed in the asshole by a big dicked nigger with syphilis is not better than reading a cow goes moo post?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106929)



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Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:43 PM
Author: Sexy rehab

I mean yeah, people have been "indoctrinated" to think that the worth of one's life has reference to the outside conditions of one's life in the West since at least Aristotle; whereas, on the contrary, whereas it was only with Bentham in the 18th century that anything like what you're describing got rolling. Interestingly, it is the concept of 'utility' in its original incarnation that you're describing when you describe utterly subjective good as constitutive of 'the good' per se, so your derisive comment about the very concept you advance leads me to believe you've kind of got your head up your ass about this stuff, if your silly idea didn't already lead me to that conclusion.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106718)



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Date: March 31st, 2012 4:32 PM
Author: hyperactive nowag striped hyena

he doesn't want to hear this shit. its not on mises.org reading list.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20354267)



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Date: March 31st, 2012 3:07 PM
Author: heady mentally impaired national

hardcore austrians, a great source of circular reasoning and being pedantic about definitions

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20353660)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 11th, 2012 11:34 PM
Author: Zippy Amethyst Hominid



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20444078)



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Date: April 14th, 2012 2:54 PM
Author: crimson degenerate milk



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20461614)



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Date: June 13th, 2013 12:32 PM
Author: Sick center mad cow disease



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#23387206)



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Date: July 14th, 2013 9:27 PM
Author: Zippy Amethyst Hominid



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#23644642)



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Date: April 27th, 2014 11:03 PM
Author: Zippy Amethyst Hominid



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#25461372)



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Date: June 17th, 2018 9:36 PM
Author: Self-absorbed black organic girlfriend cruise ship



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#36262826)