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NYC budget: 20% on pensions, 10% on interest payments
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Date: October 27th, 2015 4:39 PM Author: 180 dull people who are hurt church building 20% on "social services." only 12% on police, transportation, and public housing, combined.
http://www.ibo.nyc.ny.us/iboreports/understandingthebudget.pdf |
Date: October 27th, 2015 4:40 PM Author: Big property feces as i say all the time: NO LONG TERM OBLIGATIONS (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053454) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 4:59 PM Author: beady-eyed chocolate shrine ? pretty dumb thing to say (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053566) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:01 PM Author: Big property feces companies, and especially governments, get themselves into big trouble with LTOs, not STOs. not to mention that LTOs necessarily have a huge moral hazard problem in that the people voting for them and benefiting from them often are not the people who end up paying for them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053576) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:03 PM Author: beady-eyed chocolate shrine just do pay for roads, schools, and bridges with cash (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053592) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:08 PM Author: Big property feces agreed (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053619) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:09 PM Author: beady-eyed chocolate shrine that's dumb. what happened to the people benefitting being the ones to pay. roads, schools, bridges, water/sewer pipes, etc. last for a long time (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053629) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:10 PM Author: arousing domesticated newt pit I think he or she was being sarcastic. Long-term debt is fine for a government whose existence is theoretically perpetual. It's often necessary if you want to build and maintain large-scale public works which are necessary for a modern city. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053635) |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 9:53 AM Author: Tantric Background Story Ironically, long-term pension obligations are leaving many cities unable to build even short-term public works. Like, you know, roads.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/02/budget-woes-in-one-of-americas-wealthiest-cities/470877/ |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 9:56 AM Author: Big property feces bingo.
hell, even look on a smaller scale at individual towns and school budgets. long term obligations to employees can't be cut by towns, so any time residents want to control spending the first things cut are always enrichment programs and the like at schools, and then things like buses, etc.
glad they are looking out for the kids! |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 10:05 AM Author: Tantric Background Story The plundering of this country's future by the public employees is an atrocity for all time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#35618458) |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 10:07 AM Author: Big property feces (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#35618476) |
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Date: March 21st, 2018 1:27 AM Author: charcoal dashing pozpig (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#35650704) |
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Date: March 21st, 2018 1:28 AM Author: clear heaven haunted graveyard and people like latham (most democrats) think you must be kidding
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Date: March 21st, 2018 2:36 AM Author: Up-to-no-good step-uncle's house (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#35650871) |
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Date: March 21st, 2018 2:37 AM Author: Up-to-no-good step-uncle's house "he or she"
lmao |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:20 PM Author: Vivacious personal credit line Difference between taking on debt to pay down a project and having perpetual evergreen debt that is going to keep accumulating. You have a price set for a bridge, you may exceed it, it may take more time than anticipated to pay it off, but it's not something that is working in perpetuity. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053681) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:27 PM Author: beady-eyed chocolate shrine NYC legally has to match the debt it issues to the life of the project it's financing. people can argue that governments in general shouldn't issue as much debt as they do, but it's really not an issue for NYC specifically. of course, the swaps are a different story. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053723) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 4:44 PM Author: Vibrant Self-centered Site Mad-dog Skullcap LOL can't wait for companies to leave. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053481) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 4:45 PM Author: autistic supple school old irish cottage From what I've read, Chicago is at much greater risk of this than New York. Not that NY is in great shape, but Chicago seems like it would enter the death spiral first. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053486) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:13 PM Author: Vibrant Self-centered Site Mad-dog Skullcap Agreed I just like to shit on NYC (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053648) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 4:57 PM Author: glittery office Finance to Omaha? SLC? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053557) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 4:53 PM Author: arousing domesticated newt pit Bloomberg's Deputy Mayor described NYC as the next GM. In the next few decades they'll probably avail themselves of the bankruptcy process to get them through those massive pension obligations. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053531) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 4:55 PM Author: aphrodisiac theater This shit needs to be made illegal. Just pay everyone up front, no pensions. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053547) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 4:58 PM Author: contagious federal state are the pensions the problem or is it the mismanagement associated with the retards in government? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053563) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:00 PM Author: Fantasy-prone painfully honest telephone Both. Promising obscene pensions is mismanagement (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053572) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:31 PM Author: Effete Geriatric Giraffe Roast Beef if you're a politician looking to get reelected, it's perfectly rational to promise massive pension payouts to unions. the pain will be felt decades down the line, long after youve left. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053738) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 6:06 PM Author: clear heaven haunted graveyard depends who you want to blame pensions are bad because they aren't treated like what they actually are. wahhhh, our incomes are low. no, assfucks, you aren't including the value of your pension. huh? according to these projections, our pensions will be unsustainable in 13 years. 13 years? get out of my office |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 4:59 PM Author: Fantasy-prone painfully honest telephone What rate are they paying on their debt? What happens if rates normalize (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053564) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:02 PM Author: beady-eyed chocolate shrine most of their debt is fixed rate, so nothing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053581) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:03 PM Author: Fantasy-prone painfully honest telephone What rate? They will have to roll it over so... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053588) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:06 PM Author: beady-eyed chocolate shrine no they won't, it's long term debt. of course, it will become more expensive if they want to bond for new projects, locking in low interest rates over the past several years is sooo cr. they are basically paying 4%-type rates for 20-30 years. that's great. |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:09 PM Author: Fantasy-prone painfully honest telephone I mean when it comes due they aren't going to just pay it off out of their pockets. They will issue more debt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053630) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:13 PM Author: beady-eyed chocolate shrine these aren't bullet maturities brother. they get paid off little by little over time, year after year. just like a mortgage. they aren't issuing new debt just to pay off old debt (except for refinancings that lower their interest rates) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053651) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:32 PM Author: Vibrant Self-centered Site Mad-dog Skullcap Lol no they don't. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053753) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:38 PM Author: Vibrant Self-centered Site Mad-dog Skullcap http://newyork.municipalbonds.com/bonds/recent/ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053798) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:42 PM Author: beady-eyed chocolate shrine http://nycbonds.org/NYC/pdf/2015/NYC_GO_2015_CDE.pdf http://nycbonds.org/NYC/pdf/2015/NYC_GO_2015_AB.pdf
here's offering docs for two recent NYC transactions. look on the second page of the files. maturities up and down the curve. |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:57 PM Author: Vibrant Self-centered Site Mad-dog Skullcap The maturities are when the principle is due. They are not amortized like your home mortgage. State your IQ before I engage you further. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053961) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 6:03 PM Author: beady-eyed chocolate shrine what exactly do you think a mortgage payment includes? principal and interest. you are incredibly dumb and you are not flaming itt, it is actually just your incredibly low iq (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29054011) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 6:12 PM Author: Vibrant Self-centered Site Mad-dog Skullcap *MORON ALERT*
BOND PAYMENTS ARE INTEREST ONLY
*MORON ALERT* |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 6:14 PM Author: beady-eyed chocolate shrine holy shit, you have already looked at the NYC offering doc and seen that they pay off principal every year. it isn't just one big chunk they have to pay all at once in 30 years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29054099) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 6:19 PM Author: Vibrant Self-centered Site Mad-dog Skullcap Lol you're embarrassing yourself (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29054140) |
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Date: March 21st, 2018 1:38 AM Author: smoky pontificating stag film persian I'm not a muni guy so bear with me, but i don't think this is a great example. Seems like you could both be technically right.
Those 3 letter designations on the right are CUSIPs (or the end of them). Each of these is a separate bond. I'm not going to read this OM but I'm going to assume that there's no sinking fund on any of them. If that's true, none of the individual bonds amortize.
That said all these individual bonds seem to be raised as part of a series. If you think of the series as a bond (which isn't idiotic since it probably correlates with a fiscal year's required financing), then the series effectively amortizes by having individual bonds mature.
I also wouldn't be surprised if there are munis out there that do have sinking fund provisions (esp revenue bonds or project financing). |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:41 PM Author: Fantasy-prone painfully honest telephone Is their total debt increasing or not (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053823) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:51 PM Author: beady-eyed chocolate shrine relevance? their economy is growing, they can easily afford the debt they have. (they are rated AA+/AAA depending on credit and rating agency) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053903) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:52 PM Author: Fantasy-prone painfully honest telephone if their total debt is rising, they are issuing more debt. that's all i'm getting at (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053925) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:57 PM Author: beady-eyed chocolate shrine OH WHAT A POINT (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053966) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 6:01 PM Author: Fantasy-prone painfully honest telephone the point is they are rolling over the debt and it could spiral out of control (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053988) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 6:02 PM Author: Vibrant Self-centered Site Mad-dog Skullcap This tard thinks munis are amortized like a mortgage LJL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053992) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 6:07 PM Author: Fantasy-prone painfully honest telephone i just don't think he has any experience analyzing balance sheets and shit. makes me wonder what non-financially inclined people think about budgets (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29054033) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 6:12 PM Author: beady-eyed chocolate shrine you are both incredibly out of your element. I literally linked to NYC's recent offering docs showing that they are paying off bonds over time, not "rolling them over." PROTIP: you can't issue tax exempt bonds to "roll over" long term debt. you seem to think that when they issue $1 billion in bonds, it means they have to come up with $1 billion in 30 years, and that they issue new bonds to pay off old bonds. lol just lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29054081) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 6:16 PM Author: Vibrant Self-centered Site Mad-dog Skullcap If debt is increasing, it is being rolled over. STATE YOUR IQ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29054108) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:57 PM Author: Vibrant Self-centered Site Mad-dog Skullcap Is debt rising faster than GDP? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053964) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:34 PM Author: Effete Geriatric Giraffe Roast Beef hard to say. if interest rates rise, the pension liabilities go way down in value, improving funding ratios and reducing the need to make additional contributions to the pensions. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053770) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:38 PM Author: Embarrassed To The Bone Flesh Theater Stage Clown the problem is that LOL at interest rates rising in the forseeable future (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053803) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:40 PM Author: Vibrant Self-centered Site Mad-dog Skullcap Cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053820) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:48 PM Author: beady-eyed chocolate shrine not really. I mean, you'd expect them to earn more on their investments, but the liabilities are calculated based on the plans' actuarial assumptions, which don't float with interest rates. most plans assume 7-8%. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053889) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 5:52 PM Author: Fantasy-prone painfully honest telephone i'm thinking more about the downside case where interest rates rise and return on investments is low (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053914) |
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Date: October 27th, 2015 6:02 PM Author: beady-eyed chocolate shrine for what it's worth, 1/3 of the funds are invested in bonds. anyway, pensions are fuckin complicated but NYC is not nearly as bad as some other systems. the focus on individual year returns is a mistake though. most important thing is keeping up with their contributions (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#29053997) |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 9:10 AM Author: gaped violet box office jfc libs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#35618079) |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 9:19 AM Author: Big property feces >> Any system ruled by political parties will always move to the left. Their business model is based on getting low status people to work for them. Obviously they must give them something in exchange. And they must motivate voters to vote for them. Their promise is simple: You, low status people, help us out, vote for us, obey our commands, and we will give you high status. Don’t vote for us, disobey us, let the right win, and you will remain low status. <<
https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2017/12/13/bioleninism-the-first-step/ |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 9:28 AM Author: charcoal dashing pozpig (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#35618185) |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 9:47 AM Author: Twinkling galvanic hominid stain NY has so much money coming in that they’ll be fine. They can always do stuff raise prop taxes on anything worth over $2M and soak the Chinese buyers who own all of those empty condo.
It’s secind tier citie/states like Chicago and New Jersey that are fucked. |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 10:20 AM Author: violent resort Chicago\Illinois are super fucked (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#35618584) |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 10:41 AM Author: exhilarant hell Isn't 90% of the city tax currently used to pay pension obligations?
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Date: March 21st, 2018 1:25 AM Author: violent resort Ljl (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3028597&forum_id=2#35650696) |