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Arizona Summit: The Worst Law School in America?

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/05/law-school-completely-derails...
Soul-stirring point
  05/20/16
LSAT percentiles for Fall 2015 class: 25th: 140 (~37 ques...
Soul-stirring point
  05/20/16
i think i got a 156 on a cold practice test with zero prep w...
bright french chef
  05/20/16
You probably could have gotten some money from Arizona Summi...
Soul-stirring point
  05/20/16
their median GPA is like 2.8 also. it would be pretty 180...
bright french chef
  05/20/16
(Saul Goodman)
Big Stain
  05/20/16
Go Land Crabs!
Soul-stirring point
  05/20/16
...
ruby trip feces philosopher-king
  10/17/17
Unwitting humblepwn
slippery excitant stage
  10/20/16
...
abusive puppy
  06/23/17
omfg at accepting anyone with a 140.
Green keepsake machete
  05/20/16
"What was your score?" "Better than chance...
Soul-stirring point
  05/20/16
My law school just hired an Arizona Summit law grad as an of...
Gaped White Gas Station
  05/20/16
Seems about right.
Soul-stirring point
  05/20/16
(Arizona Summit Law school student)
rambunctious crackhouse hominid
  08/16/16
...
nofapping business firm immigrant
  08/17/16
...
drab impressive resort
  03/29/17
...
Curious Center
  05/25/18
How evil are the professors who are complicit in the dry ass...
Soul-stirring point
  05/20/16
tbf those profs are probably barely employable themselves
Green keepsake machete
  05/20/16
...
Arousing henna field blood rage
  05/20/16
Meh -- there are a TON of sleazy bullshit industries.
arrogant therapy menage
  05/20/16
So are you saying they're just little Eichmanns?
Soul-stirring point
  05/20/16
I'm saying we're all scumbags.
arrogant therapy menage
  05/20/16
Touro is the worst
spruce voyeur
  05/20/16
Go on.
Soul-stirring point
  05/20/16
Fucksberg College of Law
drab impressive resort
  06/17/16
they still run old school confidence schemes in arizona.
Jade hilarious halford hospital
  05/20/16
...
Arousing henna field blood rage
  05/20/16
...
Soul-stirring point
  06/17/16
In the opinion of xo, what is the bottom lsat-score for bein...
ruddy pocket flask locus
  06/17/16
155-160
tan chad half-breed
  06/17/16
percentile?
ruddy pocket flask locus
  06/17/16
...
Arousing henna field blood rage
  06/17/16
of test takers or of those admitted to law schools?
ruddy pocket flask locus
  06/17/16
Lawyer, 151 Judge, 167
drab impressive resort
  06/17/16
can it be worse than Thomas Jefferson? 'cause that school is...
pungent frozen trailer park
  06/17/16
so, as an lsat score of 155-160/75-80 percentile is necessar...
ruddy pocket flask locus
  06/17/16
I think you need at least 160 to be decent. There are lots o...
talking charcoal stag film trust fund
  06/17/16
it takes around a 75-80% MCAT score to be admitted to any US...
Odious brass trump supporter
  10/18/17
Lol, it's a fucking UBE state. So it's not even like how ra...
Dun forum
  06/17/16
(Hillary Clinton) nvm it was the DC bar she failed, carry...
passionate house-broken selfie boistinker
  03/29/17
Failing, For-Profit Law School Announces Plans To Affiliate ...
Soul-stirring point
  08/16/16
People's College of Law if it still exists is the worst
aromatic ultramarine organic girlfriend
  08/16/16
yeah but PCOL is like 4000 bucks a year while Arizona Summit...
Underhanded nudist pit
  08/17/16
The ABA allows for profit law schools?
Fragrant generalized bond parlour
  08/17/16
where do they fall on the cooley rankings?
emerald beta chapel
  08/17/16
plz look into this. thank
Soul-stirring point
  10/20/16
UPDATE: First-time pass rate now under 25% http://aboveth...
Soul-stirring point
  10/18/16
Boomers gonna boom The law school now requires that all s...
Sickened stock car fat ankles
  10/20/16
Are law school graduation rates published like they are for ...
Soul-stirring point
  10/20/16
ABA puts Arizona Summit on probation because of its pure shi...
Soul-stirring point
  03/29/17
isn't Cooley the worst?
passionate house-broken selfie boistinker
  03/29/17
It was the quintessential TTT school in the old PR/XO days. ...
Soul-stirring point
  10/17/17
I actually know one of these grads but she graduated a numbe...
gold motley ratface candlestick maker
  03/29/17
Job listing for a new dean. https://www.indeed.com/viewjo...
Soul-stirring point
  06/23/17
list line is amazing. Have they hired anyone yet?
Awkward bawdyhouse
  10/17/17
I think I'll apply. I have experience in the education secto...
racy indigo roast beef
  10/17/17
https://abovethelaw.com/2017/10/this-law-schools-bar-exam-pa...
Soul-stirring point
  10/17/17
how tough is the AZ bar
Fragrant generalized bond parlour
  10/17/17
Probably in the fat middle.
Soul-stirring point
  10/18/17
Arizona Summit now suing the ABA for being unfair. http:/...
Soul-stirring point
  05/25/18
...
lavender athletic conference
  06/11/18
on a good day can someone randomly guess a 140 without even ...
Aquamarine fanboi idiot
  06/11/18
ABA: "Following the May 10, 2018, appearance of Ariz...
Soul-stirring point
  06/11/18
Fall 2016 140 143 148 2.55 2.96 3.31 NON-DISCOUNTED COST ...
drab impressive resort
  06/11/18
31.8% get legal jobs. That's $781,270 in education costs ...
Soul-stirring point
  06/11/18
the lawsuit just got ten feet higher!
Awkward bawdyhouse
  06/11/18
i've met only one grad of the following schools and was conv...
Jade hilarious halford hospital
  06/11/18


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:08 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/05/law-school-completely-derails-states-bar-exam-passage-rate/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520343)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:12 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point

LSAT percentiles for Fall 2015 class:

25th: 140 (~37 questions out of 101, ~13th percentile)

50th: 143 (~42 questions out of 101, ~20th percentile)

75th: 148 (~50 questions out of 101, ~36th percentile)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520374)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:14 PM
Author: bright french chef

i think i got a 156 on a cold practice test with zero prep when i was first curious about LS

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520387)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:19 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point

You probably could have gotten some money from Arizona Summit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520434)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:24 PM
Author: bright french chef

their median GPA is like 2.8 also.

it would be pretty 180 if you knew say, junior year of undergrad that you had a GUARANTEED career, all you needed was to pass the bar. you could party the last two years of UG, take the LSAT hungover, get money from Arizona Summit, fuck hot AZ girls for three years, then get it together and pass the bar

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520483)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:25 PM
Author: Big Stain

(Saul Goodman)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520491)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:26 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point

Go Land Crabs!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520499)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 17th, 2017 1:27 PM
Author: ruby trip feces philosopher-king



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#34462985)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 20th, 2016 5:17 PM
Author: slippery excitant stage

Unwitting humblepwn

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31691012)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 23rd, 2017 3:32 PM
Author: abusive puppy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#33626415)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:26 PM
Author: Green keepsake machete

omfg at accepting anyone with a 140.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520501)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:35 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point

"What was your score?"

"Better than chance!"



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520570)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:26 PM
Author: Gaped White Gas Station

My law school just hired an Arizona Summit law grad as an office assistant.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520500)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:30 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point

Seems about right.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520526)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 16th, 2016 8:14 PM
Author: rambunctious crackhouse hominid

(Arizona Summit Law school student)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31202274)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 17th, 2016 1:42 AM
Author: nofapping business firm immigrant



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31205017)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 29th, 2017 2:53 PM
Author: drab impressive resort



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#32946379)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 7:57 PM
Author: Curious Center



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#36128898)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:34 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point

How evil are the professors who are complicit in the dry ass fucking of those students?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520549)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:34 PM
Author: Green keepsake machete

tbf those profs are probably barely employable themselves

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520555)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:37 PM
Author: Arousing henna field blood rage



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520581)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:35 PM
Author: arrogant therapy menage

Meh -- there are a TON of sleazy bullshit industries.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520559)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:37 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point

So are you saying they're just little Eichmanns?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520582)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:45 PM
Author: arrogant therapy menage

I'm saying we're all scumbags.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520626)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:36 PM
Author: spruce voyeur

Touro is the worst

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520575)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:45 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point

Go on.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520625)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 8:58 PM
Author: drab impressive resort

Fucksberg College of Law

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730749)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:36 PM
Author: Jade hilarious halford hospital

they still run old school confidence schemes in arizona.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520578)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:40 PM
Author: Arousing henna field blood rage



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520600)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 6:15 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30729804)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 7:16 PM
Author: ruddy pocket flask locus

In the opinion of xo, what is the bottom lsat-score for being able to function as a useful lawyer? Judge?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730170)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 7:21 PM
Author: tan chad half-breed

155-160

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730200)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 7:22 PM
Author: ruddy pocket flask locus

percentile?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730208)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 7:23 PM
Author: Arousing henna field blood rage



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730215)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 7:24 PM
Author: ruddy pocket flask locus

of test takers or of those admitted to law schools?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730227)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 8:59 PM
Author: drab impressive resort

Lawyer, 151

Judge, 167

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730759)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 7:29 PM
Author: pungent frozen trailer park

can it be worse than Thomas Jefferson? 'cause that school is a walking, talking criminal fraud.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730242)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 7:35 PM
Author: ruddy pocket flask locus

so, as an lsat score of 155-160/75-80 percentile is necessary(acc to xo) to be a useful lawyer, roughly which percentage of all US law school admittees and graduates, respectively, achieve these scores?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730262)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 8:33 PM
Author: talking charcoal stag film trust fund

I think you need at least 160 to be decent. There are lots of retarded lawyers who shouldn't be doing this.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730552)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 18th, 2017 2:15 AM
Author: Odious brass trump supporter

it takes around a 75-80% MCAT score to be admitted to any US allopathic medical school.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#34468484)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 7:50 PM
Author: Dun forum

Lol, it's a fucking UBE state. So it's not even like how random states (e.g., Arkansas) will put together really tough bar exams that even non-retarded kids will fail.

AZ bar takers really are just retards.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730332)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 29th, 2017 2:50 PM
Author: passionate house-broken selfie boistinker

(Hillary Clinton)

nvm it was the DC bar she failed, carry on

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#32946357)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 16th, 2016 8:04 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point

Failing, For-Profit Law School Announces Plans To Affiliate With ‘Major University’

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/08/failing-for-profit-law-school-announces-plans-to-affiliate-with-major-university/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31202212)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 16th, 2016 8:15 PM
Author: aromatic ultramarine organic girlfriend

People's College of Law if it still exists is the worst

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31202288)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 17th, 2016 1:41 AM
Author: Underhanded nudist pit

yeah but PCOL is like 4000 bucks a year while Arizona Summit is like 40,000 a year

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31205014)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 17th, 2016 1:46 AM
Author: Fragrant generalized bond parlour

The ABA allows for profit law schools?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31205031)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 17th, 2016 1:49 AM
Author: emerald beta chapel

where do they fall on the cooley rankings?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31205041)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 20th, 2016 5:08 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point

plz look into this.

thank

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31690965)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 18th, 2016 1:30 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point

UPDATE: First-time pass rate now under 25%

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/10/law-school-posts-worst-bar-exam-passage-rates-in-its-existence-drags-down-entire-states-passage-rates/



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31669657)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 20th, 2016 5:20 PM
Author: Sickened stock car fat ankles

Boomers gonna boom

The law school now requires that all students with GPAs below a 3.33 take and pass a mock bar exam as a graduation requirement, knowing full well that such a requirement may preclude countless students from being able to graduate and further sully their otherwise abysmal bar exam passage rates.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31691045)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 20th, 2016 5:33 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point

Are law school graduation rates published like they are for undergrad?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31691115)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 29th, 2017 2:48 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point

ABA puts Arizona Summit on probation because of its pure shit bar passage rates.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-education/2017/03/27/arizona-summit-law-school-probation-low-bar-passage-rates/99698686/

To regain compliance:

"At least 75 percent of a law school's graduates must pass the bar within five years of graduation; or a school must have a 75 percent pass rate for at least three of those five years."

Good luck!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#32946344)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 29th, 2017 2:51 PM
Author: passionate house-broken selfie boistinker

isn't Cooley the worst?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#32946365)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 17th, 2017 12:32 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point

It was the quintessential TTT school in the old PR/XO days.

But it has much higher bar passage rates than Arizona Summit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#34462650)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 29th, 2017 3:05 PM
Author: gold motley ratface candlestick maker

I actually know one of these grads but she graduated a number of years ago when the school merely had a "bad" reputation

She does shitlaw and probably makes 50 or 60k if I had to guess

Has also been posting anti Trump shit non stop since the election

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#32946456)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 23rd, 2017 3:31 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point

Job listing for a new dean.

https://www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=d9ab3e634594eaa0

http://archive.is/x8ejZ

- "Although having had impressive bar examination outcomes for many years, the school in recent times has experienced a serious decline in this critical area."

- "The Council of the American Bar Association Section of Legal Education recently placed the school on probation, primarily due to lack of rigor in its admissions policy and academic program and processes."

- "Summit has been the subject of considerable negative publicity, especially in recent years as bar pass results declined."

- " Experience in legal education and law school administration is desirable, but is not an absolute requirement."



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#33626404)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 17th, 2017 12:33 PM
Author: Awkward bawdyhouse

list line is amazing. Have they hired anyone yet?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#34462655)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 17th, 2017 1:18 PM
Author: racy indigo roast beef

I think I'll apply. I have experience in the education sector.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#34462915)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 17th, 2017 12:30 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point

https://abovethelaw.com/2017/10/this-law-schools-bar-exam-passage-rates-are-embarrassing/

July 2017 Arizona bar passage: 25.7%

But only 35 people took it (probably the best of the best).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#34462639)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 17th, 2017 1:19 PM
Author: Fragrant generalized bond parlour

how tough is the AZ bar

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#34462919)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 18th, 2017 2:03 AM
Author: Soul-stirring point

Probably in the fat middle.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#34468463)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 7:54 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point

Arizona Summit now suing the ABA for being unfair.

http://archive.azcentral.com/persistent/icimages/news/Summit%20ABA%20complaint.pdf

Note:

1 - The lawyers can figure out how to center titles. Get rid of the tabs, you morons.

2 - Arizona Summit is being represented by lawyers who went to law school at: University of Arizona (local counsel), Harvard, Harvard, and Harvard. Not even token representation from one of the FINE Arizona Summit grads?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#36128882)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 11th, 2018 10:52 AM
Author: lavender athletic conference



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#36222620)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 11th, 2018 10:58 AM
Author: Aquamarine fanboi idiot

on a good day can someone randomly guess a 140 without even reading the questions?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#36222656)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 11th, 2018 4:32 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point

ABA:

"Following the May 10, 2018, appearance of Arizona Summit Law School’s representatives before the Council and the review of both the written materials submitted on behalf of the Law School and statements made at the Council hearing, the Council voted to remove the Law School from the ABA list of approved law schools."

https://bit.ly/2l1XjPq



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#36225033)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 11th, 2018 4:35 PM
Author: drab impressive resort

Fall 2016 140 143 148 2.55 2.96 3.31

NON-DISCOUNTED COST

$248,444

2017 GRADUATES

151

Large Firm 2%

Small Firm 18.5%

Federal Clerkship 0.7%

Public Service 10.6%

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#36225063)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 11th, 2018 4:38 PM
Author: Soul-stirring point

31.8% get legal jobs.

That's $781,270 in education costs per legal job.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#36225086)



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Date: June 11th, 2018 5:00 PM
Author: Awkward bawdyhouse

the lawsuit just got ten feet higher!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#36225249)



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Date: June 11th, 2018 5:02 PM
Author: Jade hilarious halford hospital

i've met only one grad of the following schools and was convinced they were retarded:

cuny.

touro.

california western.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#36225262)