How stupid must you be to support net neutrality regulations?
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Poast new message in this thread
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Date: July 12th, 2017 4:12 PM Author: geriatric nursing home electric furnace
Enjoy paying Comcast/NBC a premium in order to access non-NBC content on the Internet!
There's barely any competition for ISPs. https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/broadband-access.png
Ajit Pai is just helping ISPs by bending America over for her eventual rape.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33758965) |
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Date: July 13th, 2017 2:47 AM Author: smoky voyeur location
So, speaking for Washington DC according to your chart: two options with 99% availability, only one of which is high quality broadband (second option caps at 15mbps and that's the max rather than the average).
The third option is literally what we're saying they have to do, laying fiber, but it only has 60% availability in one of the largest cities in America in one of the central zip codes in that city.
And why is Verizon laying fiber? Because their offering, DSL, has been getting crushed by the vertical monopoly Comcast has been leveraging via bundling services (in addition to offering higher caps) and the recognize they can no longer extract rents from their current offering (except to the extent people get so frustrated with Comcast they're willing to take shit internet for a period of time).
So, we're looking at one available option with a company notorious for fucking people with low quality service with a coin flip on a second service being available.
Honestly, your links support his argument if you take any time to analyze them.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33763118)
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Date: July 13th, 2017 1:07 PM Author: wonderful business firm shitlib
Are you fucking retarded? There are other ISPs with a 63% and 55% availability coverage and protip, they don't serve the same fucking areas. Give me your exact zip code and I'll tell you specifically how many ISPs are in your area.
There are also tons of publicly accessible internet services at the nearest library for free, http://broadbandnow.com/District-Of-Columbia/Washington if you think Comcast is raping you.
And LOL at thinking 15mbps is slow when it perfectly streams multiple 4K Netflix and porn videos.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33765138) |
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Date: July 13th, 2017 1:17 AM Author: out-of-control stock car site
Appeal to authority bad!
Ad hominem good!
Strange flame, brother.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33762815) |
Date: July 12th, 2017 4:12 PM Author: self-absorbed charismatic field
Come to think of it, it would be nice to allow Comcast to charge pumos moar to poast.
*types up retarded anti-NN thread* *hits poast* *waits* "It looks like you're trying to shitpoast on xoxohth.com! You have exceeded your bandwidth cap for this website. If you would like to continue poasting, please upgrade to our Megapoaster Deluxe Bundle for only $39.99/mo!"
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33758975) |
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Date: July 12th, 2017 5:18 PM Author: wonderful business firm shitlib
LOLOL at this literal dumb fuck.
As net neutrality TITLE II (TWO) REGULATIONS forces ISPs to not discriminate traffic, Netflix traffic is mixed in with xoxohth hitler traffic and the lanes are congested based on how many nearby netflix retards consume lib propaganda on netflix.
How utterly dumb are you? Are you reading articles from 2013 and trying to respond to me?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33759403) |
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Date: July 12th, 2017 5:26 PM Author: floppy saffron house sandwich
Do you realize you were not making any sort of QoS argument in the post to which I responded?
Date: July 12th, 2017 4:25 PM
Author: .,.,,..,,,..,,.,.,,..,,,..,,.,.,.,..,.,.,.,,.,,.,.
Except NN regulations forces ISPs to serve you thousands of gigs of porn every month while every other productive working citizen has to subsidize you for taking all the bandwidth. How utterly stupid can you be on this issue? Do you even know anything about it you festering lib?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33759083)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33759445) |
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Date: July 12th, 2017 5:33 PM Author: wonderful business firm shitlib
Is English your second language? I'll demonstrate for you Ching Wei.
a) You consume gigs of internet porn daily. b) some unemployed retard wants to see the latest stormfront posts on xoxo. c) The unemployed retard's traffic is mixed in with your traffic. d) ISPs are forced to serve you thousands of gigs of porn on the same lane as stormfront poaster's, degrading the stormfront poaster's Mbps. e) Traffic slows to a halt as you masturbate while the stormfronter can't log in efficiently to read xoxo hitler poasts.
/pwn
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33759496) |
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Date: July 12th, 2017 4:43 PM Author: floppy saffron house sandwich
It is clear you have no fucking clue what you are talking about.
NetFlix, like everyone else, pays for data connections. If NetFlix wasn't paying enough for the transportation of its data, it wouldn't be transported.
What ISPs want to do is extract rents from NetFlix and its consumers based upon the utility such consumers derive from NetFlix's service. That is it. If it were simply a question of data usage, ISPs could charge more for their data plans, and Tier 3 networks would charge NetFlix more for transporting its data.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33759214) |
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Date: July 12th, 2017 4:58 PM Author: wonderful business firm shitlib
"NetFlix, like everyone else, pays for data connections."
"like everyone else"? WTF are you talking about? Can you distinguish between fast lanes and slow lanes? Do you know how lanes are congested when you're watching hundreds of gigs of porn daily and that traffic is mixed with xoxohth traffic that just wants to read white supremacist text?
It's hilarious arguing with the low IQs on here.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33759309) |
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Date: July 12th, 2017 5:23 PM Author: floppy saffron house sandwich
This is bordering on some "series of tubes" shit, but you have managed to tangentially brush up against a legitimate argument in opposition to Net Neutrality.
It is painfully obvious you don't have a fundamental grasp of this issue. That's okay; most people don't, but why in the fuck do you insist on making a scene with one needlessly abrasive, retarded post after another?
Up to this point, your criticism of NetFlix, specifically, and net neutrality, generally, has been limited to end users consuming large amounts of data adversely affecting others' data services. This is a horrible argument in the context of Net Neutrality. I suspect you realized this, ran off and did some googling, and came back with your piss-poor restatement of the argument in favor of permitting discrimination based upon data types in order to prioritize other types of data that time sensitive, i.e., Quality of Service. This is legitimate argument against Net Neutrality, to which there are persuasive counter arguments. However, it is painfully clear you were not making any sort of QoS argument up to this point, and it is equally apparent from your piss-poor restatement of this argument that you you either don't understand it or you are trying to glom it onto you prior arguments, which you now realize are SPS.
As for "fast lanes and slow lanes," this boomer-speak could be referencing all sorts of things. It could be referencing the above referenced QoS, the distinction between Tier 1 and Tier 3 networks, or peering arrangements between multiple Tier 1 networks. Regardless of the precise nature of this reference, it does not cover up for the fact that you you are a fucking idiot who doesn't know a god damn thing about the ISP industry. Yes, NetFlix has to pay for its data just like everyone else. Who pays what is determined by a highly efficient market between the various local, regional, and national ISPs. If an ISP is transmitting more data that it receives to a second ISP, it pays the ISP. It's that simple. the mechanisms used for setting that price can be quite complex, but the current industry arrangement is both simple and elegant.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33759428) |
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Date: July 12th, 2017 5:27 PM Author: wonderful business firm shitlib
LOL at this literal moron. You seriously understand nothing about net neutrality Title II regulations huh? Let me quote the words of actual FCC commissioners for you when they passed Title II NN.
"The action that we take today is an irrefutable reflection of the principle that no one, whether government or corporate, should control free and open access to the internet," Wheeler said.
"We cannot have a two-tiered internet with fast lanes that speed the traffic of the privileged and leave the rest of us lagging behind," commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel said at today's meeting. "We cannot have gatekeepers who tell us what we can and cannot do and where we can and cannot go online. And we do not need blocking, throttling, and paid prioritization schemes that undermine the internet as we know it."
https://www.theverge.com/2015/2/26/8114265/fcc-ruling-net-neutrality-victory-internet-title-ii
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33759453) |
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Date: July 12th, 2017 5:31 PM Author: floppy saffron house sandwich
I wish this exchange were not taking place in the context of a debate on a dorky, abstract, and somewhat esoteric issue, because this may be one of the stupidest responses in the history of XO, but most people will not appreciate your stupidity.
Date: July 12th, 2017 5:27 PM
Author: .,.,,..,,,..,,.,.,,..,,,..,,.,.,.,..,.,.,.,,.,,.,.
LOL at this literal moron. You seriously understand nothing about net neutrality Title II regulations huh? Let me quote the words of actual FCC commissioners for you when they passed Title II NN.
"The action that we take today is an irrefutable reflection of the principle that no one, whether government or corporate, should control free and open access to the internet," Wheeler said.
"We cannot have a two-tiered internet with fast lanes that speed the traffic of the privileged and leave the rest of us lagging behind," commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel said at today's meeting. "We cannot have gatekeepers who tell us what we can and cannot do and where we can and cannot go online. And we do not need blocking, throttling, and paid prioritization schemes that undermine the internet as we know it."
https://www.theverge.com/2015/2/26/8114265/fcc-ruling-net-neutrality-victory-internet-title-ii
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=#)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33759489) |
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Date: July 12th, 2017 5:44 PM Author: floppy saffron house sandwich
I already tried to engage you in that discussion, and your response demonstrated that you are unable or unwilling to engage the various aspects of this issue in a good faith manner.
Do you realize that that the person's reference in your quote concerning "fast lanes" and "slow lanes" is not meant to be taken literally?
Can you understand that, in my post above, I was referring to literal aspects of the ISP industry that produces the effects that he was loosely, and very imprecisely, referring to as "fast lanes" and "slow lanes"?
Can you get it through your stupid, misshapen head that, regardless of what you intended to argue initially above, you were not making the same argument you are making poorly now?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33759576) |
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Date: July 13th, 2017 1:26 PM Author: wonderful business firm shitlib
WTF are you talking about? Google is still going ahead with Nashville and the rules remain in place to help new providers attach utility poles. Do you even law? Do you think a lawsuit is a law? I mean, LJL.
http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2017/07/10/google-fiber-nashville-comcast-att-internet/440303001/
AT&T and Comcast have simultaneously rolled out fiber with gigabit internet services of their own which have pwned Google Fiber. WTF is the problem? There are three competitors with very fast internet speeds. Isn't that what you want you festering lib?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33765254) |
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Date: July 13th, 2017 1:56 PM Author: smoky voyeur location
They're generally doing it in response to the phone company doing it. The phone company is doing it since DSL isn't competitive with Cable. They generally try to maintain a little parity in their duopoly so they don't get crushed by anti-trust.
Also, I'd just like to point out that these congestion issues you speak of don't plague other countries with cities that have significantly higher bandwidth consumption and significantly higher density -- e.g. South Korea. You keep trying to use the wrong tool (fast lanes) to solve the wrong problem (content hogs).
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33765523)
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Date: July 12th, 2017 5:31 PM Author: smoky voyeur location
(Guy refusing to ban world death bioweapon because it hasn't been deployed before)
Proactively banning things that fuck up crucial utilities seems useful.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33759480) |
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Date: July 12th, 2017 5:49 PM Author: smoky voyeur location
All content should be transmitted without preference by the ISPs.
Same way I think HFT shouldn't have preferred access to front run trades on public exchanges.
If the service you provide has risen to a crucial component of modern society, then basic regulations about fairness of access should be implemented.
I understand you disagree and I don't think it is an unreasonable position to take, but I have substantially less faith that the market can sort things out effectively in scenarios like this. I'd rather be proactive.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33759617) |
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Date: July 13th, 2017 2:14 AM Author: smoky voyeur location
The infrastructure to continue innovating in content distribution requires low barriers to entry. There's a reason why on-demand came out of the internet rather than the telecoms -- companies with a monopoly on services don't go out of their way to innovate on them.
The cost to upgrading the network to accommodate the new wave of services is high, but their monopoly should help them feel better about it. Start laying fiber, they're going to need to do it sooner or later and choking out innovation to extract even higher rents isn't the way to do it.
I have very little desire for the next Netflix to originate anywhere in the world other than the US. If I have to gargle Verizon's balls to get my startup off the ground we're fucked.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33763037) |
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Date: July 13th, 2017 2:20 AM Author: wonderful business firm shitlib
LOL at ISPs not innovating. How do you think we went from 56K modems to Gigabit internet speeds in 20 years? What a totally fallacious argument.
"Start laying fiber, they're going to need to do it sooner or later and choking out innovation to extract even higher rents isn't the way to do it."
See Google Fiber and its failures. The cost of laying down fiber does not return anything financially meaningful.
"If I have to gargle Verizon's balls to get my startup off the ground we're fucked."
You don't. You can serve 4K video content without needing fast lanes.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33763057) |
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Date: July 13th, 2017 2:35 AM Author: smoky voyeur location
Brother, I gotta say you're just getting slammed here. It's like watching a pack of wolves savage a sheep with its leg caught in a bear trap.
We went from 56k to Gigabit because there was competition between phone lines and cable lines. That's gone now and most geos don't have viable competition between high quality providers (see e.g. Comcast being the most hated company in America with the worst customer service score over and over while raking in profits).
It was actually access to public lines that was the issue. Captive regulators made the process too long and costly, not the actual capital requirements of laying the fiber. Google being somewhat pragmatic about this decided to switch toward dispersed wifi rather than bother with laying fiber -- they figured solving a technical problem was better than solving a people problem.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33763099) |
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Date: July 13th, 2017 1:24 AM Author: Fluffy whorehouse dragon
Netflix is a horribly inefficient mechanism for providing video entertainment to joe sixpack.
Low bandwidth cable worked great because it was a broadcast medium--you send the same thing to everyone. Individually sending video streams to every TV in every room in America is incredibly wasteful and expensive.
Telecom companies are actually better positioned to build a more scalable video-on-demand system since they could build neighborhood hubs for the content so it wouldn't need to traverse so many lines, but doing it Netflix style is crazy.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33762853) |
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Date: July 13th, 2017 2:22 AM Author: smoky voyeur location
Joe sixpack doesn't have a netflix account, so I'm not super worried about rural subscribers getting choked out here.
Public cloud is being built out fast enough that the size of the pipe is a bigger problem then the length. Everything we are doing is requiring more bandwidth, they'll need to lay more fiber sooner or later, they just want to extract more rents before they do so.
If the cost of infrastructure improvements were prohibitive, they wouldn't have spent so much time trying to prevent Google Fiber from using public lines. The reality is that they don't feel obliged to upgrade and it is far cheaper to pay lobbyists to allow them to extract rents.
There was literally nothing preventing Telecoms from doing an end run around Netflix in its infancy and owning the on-demand system. They are inefficiently run monstrosities with a stranglehold on their captive regulators and they got totally blindsided by Netflix moving into original content. Now they're trying to claw back control.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33763062) |
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Date: July 13th, 2017 1:20 AM Author: Fluffy whorehouse dragon
this is a low IQ redditard position on the issue.
what's really happening is two groups of multi billion dollar corporations (telecoms, tech companies) are fighting over who earns the economic surplus from laying lines, and who should pay for infrastructure improvements. somehow one side of this battle is popular among tech bros online who want everything for free.
tech companies don't want to pay for anything, demand fast lines at all times, but want to capture all the surplus. their end goal is a low-margin "dumb pipe" provided by cable/telco. that's business strategy 101: commoditize your complements.
telco guys who spend billions on new network gear and running last-mile cable want to make a decent ROI. they're used to selling premium services like cable TV to provide that ROI and don't want to be undercut by tech bros who didn't pay to build the system in the first place.
your HFT analogy is apt, but it's the other way around. HFTs didn't like the major exchanges making more in fees than they made in trading, so they sponsored competing exchanges to put pressure on margins. why don't tech companies do that? build a consortium and invest in fiber to the home at low margins where they can all benefit? oh wait, running all that fiber and providing quality service is actually really expensive...
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33762830) |
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Date: July 13th, 2017 1:25 AM Author: out-of-control stock car site
"oh wait, running all that fiber and providing quality service is actually really expensive..."
Don't forget:
- natural monopolies
- shitty government charters, rules, and regulations
- regulatory capture
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33762856) |
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Date: July 13th, 2017 1:33 AM Author: Fluffy whorehouse dragon
Waaah! We have the smartest guys on the planet and billions of dollars at our disposal, yet we're unable to figure out how to get content from some regional datacenter to Joe Sixpack's house!
Long-range wireless can't work?
It's impossible to get easements to lay cable?
It's all bullshit man. They could easily do this if they wanted to. Their goal is to make someone else foot the bill. And I don't blame them, every business agitates for their self-interest, but don't act like it's a moral issue here. It's two rich businesses fighting over who pays.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33762901) |
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Date: July 13th, 2017 3:03 AM Author: smoky voyeur location
Great point at the end. But you know what, it isn't the laying of fiber that is all that expensive, it's fighting the patchwork of captive regulators that prevent access to public poles.
I suppose a savvy tech company would just find a way to avoid the human problem and solve the tech problem by removing poles from the equation.
https://www.wired.com/2016/07/facebooks-giant-internet-beaming-drone-finally-takes-flight/
https://x.company/loon/
These fucking monopolists are so intent on using captive regulators to extract an extra $10 from each customer today that they've created powerful enough incentives for the tech companies to completely change the underpinning infrastructure of the internet.
Sort of like how the refusal to open up the cable box fucked the companies into oblivion.
Rent extraction only works if you prevent disruption. They've managed to do that via raising the cost of access to local poles. I suppose they gotta hope that it is cost prohibitive to do it another way. Not looking good for them.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33763154) |
Date: July 13th, 2017 1:24 AM Author: maroon dashing space partner
Equating FANG and telecoms as both equally nefarious in their attempts to control the internet is fucking idiotic. Be sure to support the effort to end net neutrality if you like what's become of ESPN, because that's exactly what will happen to all content if the Telecoms can gate access to the internet. It will be the worst type of least common denominator, pointless GC-consensus drivel.
Obviously net neutrality favors FANG and hurts the telecoms, and that's good. The telecoms got the 1996 Telecom Act and proceeded to rape the entire country and perform like a warm buck of piss because of their lack of competition for the next decade plus. FANG are in a dominant position because they maintain users with their product everyday. There are much lower barriers to entry for another company to come along and fuck over FANG and in the case of FAN that process is well underway in various respects and F, A and N have to come up with new ways to make their products better all the time or risk getting beat out by an upstart. To take on the Telecoms you have to literally be Google and even then you get pwn3d by the maze of barriers to entry that drastically favor the big telecoms. The Telecoms wanted to be SPS quasi-governmental entities for the last two decades, and they got to reap the profits of having that oligopoly. Now they get to be assraped as their complete lack of foresight and assumption that dogshit bundles of shit content are the inevitable endstate of media.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33762852) |
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Date: July 13th, 2017 1:28 AM Author: Fluffy whorehouse dragon
This is bullshit. Google is unbeatable because they're in a virtuous cycle business. Even if you hired away all their smartest people, they'd lack the data to build a Google-beating search engine, and you wouldn't be able to get enough advertisers for the same prices because you can't target ads as well.
One side has a local physical semi-monopoly that can be beaten with money alone. Google could easily lay cable and fiber to every house if they desired. It's a solved problem.
Tech companies have a data/infrastructure monopoly that's much harder to beat.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33762880) |
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Date: July 13th, 2017 1:39 AM Author: Fluffy whorehouse dragon
If that's true, why do top Google engineers earn far less than bankers or traders with a portable book of business, despite the company earning much higher revenue/employee than any financial company? Their success isn't replicable outside the mothership.
You could literally take every Machine Learning PhD out of Google right now and force Google to replace them with new hires, and Google would still win. That's institutionalized edge writ large.
FWIW the FTC and EFTA agree with me.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33762928) |
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Date: July 13th, 2017 2:17 AM Author: Fluffy whorehouse dragon
Bullshit. Quants are as aspie as they come, even aspier than Google drones, yet they make a good cut of their work, despite harsher non-compete agreements, why?
Because any quant hedge fund can hire a Two Sigma quant and monetize his intellectual output. His employer has little or no institutional advantage that can't be purchased. You want stock index prices from Nigeria to forecast prices? No problem. Meanwhile you can't buy Google click data at any price.
Tech companies are able to suppress wages because they have institutional power. Otherwise the whole thing falls apart, and 3-4 smart guys in a garage can undercut the entire cartel.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33763043) |
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Date: July 13th, 2017 1:38 AM Author: wonderful business firm shitlib
"Telecoms can gate access to the internet"
What prevents a consumer from going to a competitor that will grant access to ESPN?
"you get pwn3d by the maze of barriers to entry that drastically favor the big telecoms. The Telecoms wanted to be SPS quasi-governmental entities for the last two decades, and they got to reap the profits of having that oligopoly."
What is currently preventing Google or Apple, companies that are extensively richer than any telecom, from laying their own wires or even buying the telecoms?
Please answer. I'm just dying to know.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33762924) |
Date: July 13th, 2017 1:58 AM Author: out-of-control stock car site
So the angry pumos' argument turns out to be that net neutrality is bad because Google and Friends could run their own cables and it's not nice to interfere with the telecom profits.
Is that right?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33762993) |
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Date: July 13th, 2017 2:39 AM Author: out-of-control stock car site
"they should pay"
Why?
But don't spend too much time on your answer. I don't give a fuck about Time Warner and Cox.
I'm a consumer. I care about my interests.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#33763107) |
Date: November 21st, 2017 11:53 PM Author: Ivory supple psychic indirect expression
ISPs should be treated like utilities, because they are utilities. If then run out of bandwidth, they should be required to lay more wire until internet speed increases to acceptable levels. If they refuse to do this, then state governments should revoke the easements the utilities use to run their lines, condemn the facilities, and sell them to a competitor.
If ISPs are really running out of bandwidth, they can just raise the price for data usage and impose data usage caps like in the old days. But of course they aren’t really running out of bandwidth.
Would you want your electric utility telling you that you can only use so much power for your TV because using more might increase the risk of power shortages? Of course not. The utility must acquire more power to meet your projected need, whatever that might be, and you pay for your usage.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3672902&forum_id=2#34745600) |
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