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URM Admissions to Law School

https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/11854/urm-admissio...
Exhilarant Henna Milk
  09/15/17
HOOOOOly fuck at these results: http://www.top-law-school...
Exhilarant Henna Milk
  09/15/17
holy shit
startling buff step-uncle's house hominid
  09/15/17
unreal
chartreuse famous landscape painting location
  09/15/17
Ljl at the 2.9/164 chick getting into Georgetown
Narrow-minded Excitant Affirmative Action
  09/16/17
...
red home pervert
  09/16/17
check your privilege cracker
elite soul-stirring university
  09/16/17
where did you go
Exhilarant Henna Milk
  09/16/17
...
red home pervert
  09/16/17
with a 168? well damn. if only u had a time machine
Exhilarant Henna Milk
  09/16/17
...
red home pervert
  09/16/17
describe how the fuck you couldn't maintain your gpa with du...
Exhilarant Henna Milk
  09/16/17
...
red home pervert
  09/16/17
3.7 in flame major at Yale is probably median! l o l
anal party of the first part
  09/16/17
our median is not nearly that high its like 3.5
Judgmental Kitty Heaven
  09/16/17
median pwned in econ/bio/other departments that give real gr...
anal party of the first part
  09/16/17
my friend got a C in econ 1 (where the curve was a B-) and t...
Claret Heady Church Building Ape
  09/16/17
Ljl I copped 3.9 and 173 and got dinged at all of HYS
Costumed double fault state
  09/16/17
...
red home pervert
  09/16/17
whered you go
Exhilarant Henna Milk
  09/16/17
The sad thing about these admissions practices is that they ...
blathering beta hospital giraffe
  09/15/17
...
Galvanic Low-t Nibblets Crackhouse
  09/15/17
10 years ago these tards wouldn't get hired as support staff
Hateful hunting ground lay
  09/16/17
...
red home pervert
  09/16/17
...
Galvanic Low-t Nibblets Crackhouse
  09/16/17
I think people would rather go to a better school than have ...
Judgmental Kitty Heaven
  09/16/17
lolno, this is why I will never let a black dr treat me
elite soul-stirring university
  09/16/17
what about for minor shit
anal party of the first part
  09/16/17
not for anything
elite soul-stirring university
  09/16/17
not for a fucking cough my nig?
anal party of the first part
  09/16/17
I don't go to random doctors, I would see my GP. Obviously m...
elite soul-stirring university
  09/16/17
Id rather just see a nurse/RN
Claret Heady Church Building Ape
  09/16/17
I specified that I was talking about normal people
Judgmental Kitty Heaven
  09/16/17
The reason why one might be wary of black doctors is indeed ...
Cerebral business firm fanboi
  09/16/17
"normal" people like being treated by doctors that...
elite soul-stirring university
  09/16/17
State your lsat score before I engage you further.
painfully honest dilemma
  09/16/17
"It generally helps, but my friend with a 150 LSAT only...
appetizing stag film
  09/15/17
mid 160's lsat is top 75% at GULC now, full stop.
Gay geriatric corn cake death wish
  09/15/17
georgeTTTown out of the T14
Hateful hunting ground lay
  09/16/17
...
Exhilarant Henna Milk
  09/15/17
My buddy (who is African-American) had a very low college GP...
Ruddy Coldplay Fan Love Of Her Life
  09/16/17
Maybe a random white or Asian person with shit scores would ...
erotic center
  09/16/17
what do you mean by thriving also, his lsat may have been v...
Exhilarant Henna Milk
  09/16/17
By "some" you mean literally ten or so per year. D...
Narrow-minded Excitant Affirmative Action
  09/16/17
...
red home pervert
  09/16/17
...
Judgmental Kitty Heaven
  09/16/17
People used to READ LAW to become lawyers. Of course the LSA...
big plaza indirect expression
  09/16/17
...
Galvanic Low-t Nibblets Crackhouse
  09/16/17
"Thriving"
Costumed double fault state
  09/16/17
...
Galvanic Low-t Nibblets Crackhouse
  09/16/17
...
red home pervert
  09/16/17
this is fucking absurd.
elite soul-stirring university
  09/16/17
what were your stats and where did you go
Exhilarant Henna Milk
  09/16/17
...
red home pervert
  09/16/17
...
Galvanic Low-t Nibblets Crackhouse
  09/16/17
Ljl
Claret Heady Church Building Ape
  09/16/17
jfc
flesh factory reset button
  09/16/17
lmfao
Metal cruise ship fortuitous meteor
  09/18/17
The crazy thing is that all these people are competing to g...
vigorous deep place of business
  09/16/17
What percent of t14 alums would support affirmative action t...
Bat-shit-crazy sex offender
  09/16/17
like all of Yale and nyu
Judgmental Kitty Heaven
  09/16/17
I've never understood: why do non-white leftists who are sup...
Cerebral business firm fanboi
  09/16/17
Bluesmoke is right. This policy is more popular than free ad...
primrose chapel partner
  09/16/17
Sigh. I spent a lot of my life bitter that as I struggled...
transparent buck-toothed stage sneaky criminal
  09/16/17
hahahha then you realized it's all flame and being a &quo...
Claret Heady Church Building Ape
  09/16/17
actually my place is only about $100K less in value than the...
transparent buck-toothed stage sneaky criminal
  09/16/17
wait...i don't get it. are you a URM annoyed that we're crit...
Exhilarant Henna Milk
  09/16/17
Were you at a city-wide magnet like Stuyvesant or something?...
Scarlet supple base gaping
  09/16/17
I was in city-wide accelerated learning programs from an ear...
transparent buck-toothed stage sneaky criminal
  09/18/17
oh the irony that affirmative action incentivizes racism
jade mad cow disease
  09/16/17
...
Claret Heady Church Building Ape
  09/16/17
Um, it's not an "incentive," you idiot.
Splenetic Rigpig
  09/18/17


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: September 15th, 2017 3:06 PM
Author: Exhilarant Henna Milk

https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/11854/urm-admissions

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34218872)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 15th, 2017 3:08 PM
Author: Exhilarant Henna Milk

HOOOOOly fuck at these results:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=275052&hilit=results

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34218882)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 15th, 2017 3:22 PM
Author: startling buff step-uncle's house hominid

holy shit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34218955)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 15th, 2017 3:26 PM
Author: chartreuse famous landscape painting location

unreal

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34218980)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 10:11 AM
Author: Narrow-minded Excitant Affirmative Action

Ljl at the 2.9/164 chick getting into Georgetown

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34222962)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:30 PM
Author: red home pervert



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223559)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:31 PM
Author: elite soul-stirring university

check your privilege cracker

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223568)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:34 PM
Author: Exhilarant Henna Milk

where did you go

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223580)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:39 PM
Author: red home pervert



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223589)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:42 PM
Author: Exhilarant Henna Milk

with a 168? well damn. if only u had a time machine

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223613)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:45 PM
Author: red home pervert



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223626)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 1:01 PM
Author: Exhilarant Henna Milk

describe how the fuck you couldn't maintain your gpa with dumbs as classmates

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223720)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 1:02 PM
Author: red home pervert



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223729)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:43 PM
Author: anal party of the first part

3.7 in flame major at Yale is probably median!

l o l

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223620)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:49 PM
Author: Judgmental Kitty Heaven

our median is not nearly that high

its like 3.5

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223643)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 1:08 PM
Author: anal party of the first part

median pwned in econ/bio/other departments that give real grades -> went hiding in latin american studies to inflate my gpa

finished above median!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223764)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 3:55 PM
Author: Claret Heady Church Building Ape

my friend got a C in econ 1 (where the curve was a B-) and then promptly transferred to a poli sci major where he graduated with a 3.9 GPA...no flame

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34224783)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:47 PM
Author: Costumed double fault state

Ljl I copped 3.9 and 173 and got dinged at all of HYS

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223633)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:51 PM
Author: red home pervert



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223656)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 1:01 PM
Author: Exhilarant Henna Milk

whered you go

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223723)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 15th, 2017 3:17 PM
Author: blathering beta hospital giraffe

The sad thing about these admissions practices is that they make it rational to assume the URM graduates are less capable.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34218928)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 15th, 2017 3:17 PM
Author: Galvanic Low-t Nibblets Crackhouse



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34218929)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 10:12 AM
Author: Hateful hunting ground lay

10 years ago these tards wouldn't get hired as support staff

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34222965)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:30 PM
Author: red home pervert



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223561)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:31 PM
Author: Galvanic Low-t Nibblets Crackhouse



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223564)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 1:17 PM
Author: Judgmental Kitty Heaven

I think people would rather go to a better school than have people "assume" they're smarter

Normal people (not race obsessed xo posters) dont have race and LSAT charts memorized and judge people as individuals anyway. Its easy to talk to someone and tell whether they're smart anyway. You dont need to do some sort of weird extrapolation nased on their race's median scores.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223808)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 1:18 PM
Author: elite soul-stirring university

lolno, this is why I will never let a black dr treat me

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223815)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 1:20 PM
Author: anal party of the first part

what about for minor shit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223826)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 1:36 PM
Author: elite soul-stirring university

not for anything

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223953)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 1:37 PM
Author: anal party of the first part

not for a fucking cough my nig?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223965)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 1:38 PM
Author: elite soul-stirring university

I don't go to random doctors, I would see my GP. Obviously my GP isn't going to be black.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223972)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 1:40 PM
Author: Claret Heady Church Building Ape

Id rather just see a nurse/RN

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223986)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 1:21 PM
Author: Judgmental Kitty Heaven

I specified that I was talking about normal people

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223834)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 1:32 PM
Author: Cerebral business firm fanboi

The reason why one might be wary of black doctors is indeed well-known to "normal people," as its having seeped into popular culture attests: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgqUQ17sYm0

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223923)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 1:37 PM
Author: elite soul-stirring university

"normal" people like being treated by doctors that actually earned their med school admission.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223959)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 2:14 PM
Author: painfully honest dilemma

State your lsat score before I engage you further.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34224180)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 15th, 2017 3:29 PM
Author: appetizing stag film

"It generally helps, but my friend with a 150 LSAT only got into Georgetown"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34218992)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 15th, 2017 3:29 PM
Author: Gay geriatric corn cake death wish

mid 160's lsat is top 75% at GULC now, full stop.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34218995)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 10:13 AM
Author: Hateful hunting ground lay

georgeTTTown out of the T14

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34222967)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 15th, 2017 5:25 PM
Author: Exhilarant Henna Milk



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34219792)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 10:13 AM
Author: Ruddy Coldplay Fan Love Of Her Life

My buddy (who is African-American) had a very low college GPA and got into an HYS, probably with the benefit of affirmative action. He seems to be thriving at a V20 firm. I'm not sure LSAT and GPA are all they're cracked up to be.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34222966)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 10:28 AM
Author: erotic center

Maybe a random white or Asian person with shit scores would thrive too

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34222997)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 10:56 AM
Author: Exhilarant Henna Milk

what do you mean by thriving

also, his lsat may have been very high (some blacks score high), which means he's smart

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223121)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 10:58 AM
Author: Narrow-minded Excitant Affirmative Action

By "some" you mean literally ten or so per year. Did you ever read that article about black performance on the LSAT? It was insane.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223128)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:49 PM
Author: red home pervert



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223645)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:50 PM
Author: Judgmental Kitty Heaven



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223649)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:23 PM
Author: big plaza indirect expression

People used to READ LAW to become lawyers. Of course the LSAT isn't the end all be all.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223527)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:31 PM
Author: Galvanic Low-t Nibblets Crackhouse



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223567)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:41 PM
Author: Costumed double fault state

"Thriving"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223610)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:46 PM
Author: Galvanic Low-t Nibblets Crackhouse



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223629)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:47 PM
Author: red home pervert



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223634)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:32 PM
Author: elite soul-stirring university

this is fucking absurd.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223572)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:34 PM
Author: Exhilarant Henna Milk

what were your stats and where did you go

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223581)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:51 PM
Author: red home pervert



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223654)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:52 PM
Author: Galvanic Low-t Nibblets Crackhouse



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223661)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 1:35 PM
Author: Claret Heady Church Building Ape

Ljl

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223946)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 4:29 PM
Author: flesh factory reset button

jfc

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34224993)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 18th, 2017 11:49 PM
Author: Metal cruise ship fortuitous meteor

lmfao

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34240512)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 12:55 PM
Author: vigorous deep place of business

The crazy thing is that all these people are competing to get into law school

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223679)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 1:11 PM
Author: Bat-shit-crazy sex offender

What percent of t14 alums would support affirmative action to this extent? It must be much less than half.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223784)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 1:20 PM
Author: Judgmental Kitty Heaven

like all of Yale and nyu

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223829)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 1:45 PM
Author: Cerebral business firm fanboi

I've never understood: why do non-white leftists who are super in favor of affirmative action get offended if you suggest that they themselves were affirmative-action recipients? If it's perfectly fine and justified to admit people who would not have qualified on merit alone, then why treat it as an accusation of something shameful?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34224015)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 1:34 PM
Author: primrose chapel partner

Bluesmoke is right. This policy is more popular than free adderall

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34223937)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 3:53 PM
Author: transparent buck-toothed stage sneaky criminal

Sigh.

I spent a lot of my life bitter that as I struggled in a terrible neighborhood with harsh parents who did nothing to nurture my educational aspirations, the Jewish kids across town were getting everything in life they ever wanted, treated like gold in their families, vacations in St. Maarten, summers off, no work after school, and then top of the class.

I then struggled bitterly through undergrad, not understanding the chance misfortune of my circumstances, as they enjoyed ivory tower academic bliss knowing that their parents were going to cover their tuition every semester, gold watches on their arms, etc.

I thought it was great payback that I got into law schools some of them didn't. I thought it was a testament to my character for all the shit I had to go through that they didn't. This country loves an underdog. Except when we're talking about AA on XO.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34224766)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 3:54 PM
Author: Claret Heady Church Building Ape

hahahha

then you realized it's all flame and being a "working professional" sucks huge balls? and that you will never have as much money as someone who inherits it? and that striving is all for nothing?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34224771)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 4:00 PM
Author: transparent buck-toothed stage sneaky criminal

actually my place is only about $100K less in value than the houses in that part of town where these kids came from, so I do see a thinning in the net worth gap.

But yes, I still don't think of myself as rich and am now questioning what I saw as rich back in secondary school. I suppose if any of those families were truly wealthy they would have had their kids in private school.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34224805)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 4:23 PM
Author: Exhilarant Henna Milk

wait...i don't get it. are you a URM annoyed that we're criticizing AA? or annoyed that you got AA?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34224942)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 16th, 2017 5:15 PM
Author: Scarlet supple base gaping

Were you at a city-wide magnet like Stuyvesant or something? Otherwise why would you have had so many interactions with Jewish kids across town that you had such a keen sense of their family dynamics and vacation itineraries, or is the idea that these were the notions you had about hypothetical Jews at the time? I'm a White Catholic that grew up around a ton of Jews who had more money than me, and I never envied them because their parents would be so weird about things, whether that meant being cheap or being showy and tacky. It wasn't until I met the legit super rich wasps and model minorities I knew in law school that I developed a truly deep sense of envy and frustration.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34225293)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 18th, 2017 7:43 AM
Author: transparent buck-toothed stage sneaky criminal

I was in city-wide accelerated learning programs from an early age because I tested well. So I was thrown in with them from an early age. But being from the same town and in the same high school, why wouldn't I have had interactions with them if I was in the same classes with them (study groups, etc.)?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34234432)



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Date: September 16th, 2017 5:45 PM
Author: jade mad cow disease

oh the irony that affirmative action incentivizes racism

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34225452)



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Date: September 16th, 2017 5:46 PM
Author: Claret Heady Church Building Ape



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34225453)



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Date: September 18th, 2017 11:24 PM
Author: Splenetic Rigpig

Um, it's not an "incentive," you idiot.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3733028&forum_id=2#34240423)