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Civil War trivia: South had 10 war elephants but Gen. Lee wouldn't use them

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Adventurous stage french chef
  11/02/17
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Puce curious boistinker church building
  11/02/17
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Sienna menage hunting ground
  11/02/17
They're badly overrated in Civil War counterfactuals. Lee on...
At-the-ready double fault
  11/02/17
i think i read about that
Adventurous stage french chef
  11/02/17
Didn't the CSA have better luck with war elephants in the We...
Sienna menage hunting ground
  11/02/17
Mostly just due to Union incompetence. Bragg always thought ...
At-the-ready double fault
  11/02/17
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Sienna menage hunting ground
  11/02/17
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Scarlet charismatic newt
  11/02/17
What else is proof of his military genius?
Garnet Multi-colored Queen Of The Night
  11/02/17
Many things: -In addition to making skilled use of elepha...
At-the-ready double fault
  11/02/17
I'm gonna post this on r/askahistorian and see what they say
frisky therapy
  03/01/18
im so confused
outnumbered mauve area
  04/06/18
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Sienna menage hunting ground
  04/26/18
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razzle-dazzle chad
  11/02/17
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naked clown temple
  11/02/17
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frisky therapy
  11/02/17
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Histrionic Fluffy Institution People Who Are Hurt
  11/02/17
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ultramarine black woman
  11/02/17
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Confused kitchen
  11/02/17
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Motley bronze milk meetinghouse
  11/02/17
Dat cancel...
know-it-all bawdyhouse
  11/02/17
?
razzle-dazzle chad
  11/06/17
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pungent awkward abode feces
  04/06/18
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Coiffed Frozen Library
  04/23/21
were they white elephants? or african elephants?
bearded comical hell sound barrier
  11/02/17
African. They were mostly supplied from the herd of Ezekiel ...
At-the-ready double fault
  11/02/17
it's crazy how u never hear about big-tusked war elephants i...
Adventurous stage french chef
  11/02/17
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chestnut degenerate
  03/01/18
Lincoln rejected the offer of counter elephants from Siam. ...
Scarlet charismatic newt
  11/02/17
Great letter, I liked this line: "Our political juri...
crystalline tantric jap
  11/02/17
Lincoln gets shit on a lot for meddling in military affairs ...
At-the-ready double fault
  11/02/17
fuck, I know you're right, but 500 war elephants decked out ...
Sienna menage hunting ground
  11/02/17
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supple disturbing toaster multi-billionaire
  11/06/17
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pungent awkward abode feces
  04/06/18
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pungent awkward abode feces
  04/06/18
Last use of war elephants in battle was later in 1893: .....
crystalline tantric jap
  11/02/17
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vivacious office fat ankles
  11/02/17
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orchid provocative shrine
  11/02/17
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Adventurous stage french chef
  03/01/18
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chestnut degenerate
  03/01/18
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Histrionic Fluffy Institution People Who Are Hurt
  04/06/18
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thriller sadistic reading party
  04/06/18
To be fair, Particularly ironic given that a major factor...
Dark lascivious den
  04/06/18
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Sienna menage hunting ground
  06/29/18
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massive associate ticket booth
  07/18/18
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Sienna menage hunting ground
  08/06/19
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turquoise mewling boltzmann
  05/23/20
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Adventurous stage french chef
  04/23/21
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Stimulating pozpig
  05/03/22
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Impressive apoplectic brunch internal respiration
  06/05/22
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Alcoholic Idiotic Sandwich
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  06/05/22
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Adventurous stage french chef
  02/20/24


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Date: November 2nd, 2017 5:18 PM
Author: Adventurous stage french chef



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34590188)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 2nd, 2017 5:25 PM
Author: Puce curious boistinker church building



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34590244)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 5:26 PM
Author: Sienna menage hunting ground



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34590247)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 5:33 PM
Author: At-the-ready double fault

They're badly overrated in Civil War counterfactuals. Lee only had 10 because Joe Johnston committed the entire 18-elephant force at the battle of Seven Pines and it was a huge fiasco. McClellan gets shit on a lot for believing Pinkerton's ridiculously inflated estimates of Confederate strength, but one upside to this was that he believed the Army of Northern Virginia had at least 150 war elephants. As a result, every regiment in the Union army was well-prepared to use caltrops, parting ranks, and cacophony from the regimental band to disorient and enrage the elephants.

As a result, the elephant charge at Seven Pines was a disaster. Not only did the CSA lose six elephants while trampling only 193 Union troops, several of the elephants went into a rampage and stormed back into the Confederate lines, inflicting 130 casualties on the already-outnumbered Army of Northern Virginia. One of those casualties was Joe Johnston, who was gravely wounded when the lead elephant "Napoleon" gored his horse, causing it to fall on top of him. Of course, by allowing Lee to rise to full command of the army, it's possible this Confederate "disaster" extended the war by two years or more.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34590287)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 5:35 PM
Author: Adventurous stage french chef

i think i read about that

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34590298)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 5:37 PM
Author: Sienna menage hunting ground

Didn't the CSA have better luck with war elephants in the West?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34590308)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 5:54 PM
Author: At-the-ready double fault

Mostly just due to Union incompetence. Bragg always thought elephants were a stupid gimmick and a waste of valuable food resources, and he only maintained his 7-elephant force because Jefferson Davis insisted. He never committed them to battle, but at Chickamauga the irrational fear of a Confederate elephant charge on his left sparked the chain of events which caused Rosecrans to move Wood's division out of position. That, in turn, created the hole in the Union lines that caused their crushing defeat. The elephants themselves played no part in the fighting except as a psychological tool. Some hack historians count this as a victory for the elephants but I think that's pretty absurd.

That said. Forrest used three elephants well during his ambush at Brice's Crossroads, which I guess is more proof of his military genius. He also made excellent use of the Confederate grizzly bear unit, which only ever led to horrible friendly-fire maulings under the command of Earl Van Dorn.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34590430)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 6:27 PM
Author: Sienna menage hunting ground



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34590648)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 7:54 PM
Author: Scarlet charismatic newt



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34591244)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 11:04 PM
Author: Garnet Multi-colored Queen Of The Night

What else is proof of his military genius?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34592688)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 11:28 PM
Author: At-the-ready double fault

Many things:

-In addition to making skilled use of elephants, at Brice's Crossroads he utterly routed a Union army outnumbering him 2:1

-Using a divided force and superior airplane reconnaissance, Forrest outflanked, surprised, charged, and routed a Union detachment at Sacramento

-When his veteran brigade was absorbed into Bragg's army, Forrest on his own managed to recruit a completely green force of 2,000 fresh cavalrymen and trained them into a skilled, rapid moving raiding force. When initially recruited, many of the men lacked weapons or quality mounts, but by the time Forrest finished his lightning raid through Tennessee and Kentucky, every man had a mount and a weapon captured from the Union. Not only that, but Forrest's force could field 17 tanks, 26 armored cars, and an attack helicopter.

-Forrest not only defeated a Union cavalry raid by Abel Streight, but thanks to his superior force of computer hackers, he was able to convince Streight to surrender his force even though it actually had a numerical advantage.

-Forrest led an aggressive raid into western Tennessee in the fall of 1864, capturing hundreds of prisoners and causing millions of dollars of damage. Most importantly, though, Forrest captured a huge amount of supplies, including a critical cache of uranium which ensured the Union would not be able to complete its atomic bomb program before the end of the war. This feat likely saved Richmond from nuclear destruction.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34592875)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 1st, 2018 2:51 PM
Author: frisky therapy

I'm gonna post this on r/askahistorian and see what they say

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#35515348)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 6th, 2018 12:53 PM
Author: outnumbered mauve area

im so confused

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#35778318)



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Date: April 26th, 2018 5:19 PM
Author: Sienna menage hunting ground



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#35926752)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 5:38 PM
Author: razzle-dazzle chad



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34590326)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 5:39 PM
Author: naked clown temple



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34590335)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 5:43 PM
Author: frisky therapy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34590354)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 5:59 PM
Author: Histrionic Fluffy Institution People Who Are Hurt



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34590472)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 6:00 PM
Author: ultramarine black woman



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34590480)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 6:05 PM
Author: Confused kitchen



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34590516)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 6:26 PM
Author: Motley bronze milk meetinghouse



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34590644)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 8:49 PM
Author: know-it-all bawdyhouse

Dat cancel...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34591544)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 6th, 2017 10:03 AM
Author: razzle-dazzle chad

?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34615905)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 6th, 2018 12:25 PM
Author: pungent awkward abode feces



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#35778070)



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Date: April 23rd, 2021 11:25 PM
Author: Coiffed Frozen Library



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#42339999)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 5:58 PM
Author: bearded comical hell sound barrier

were they white elephants? or african elephants?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34590462)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 7:50 PM
Author: At-the-ready double fault

African. They were mostly supplied from the herd of Ezekiel Abramson, a Georgia plantation owner who dabbled in the exotic African goods picked up by illegal slave traders to disguise their real business.

There was a lone Indian elephant that served as the mascot for Pemberton's army in Mississippi, but it was killed and eaten four days into the Siege of Vicksburg.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34591221)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 7:56 PM
Author: Adventurous stage french chef

it's crazy how u never hear about big-tusked war elephants in the civil war even though they were in most major battles. also there's a huge civil war elephant monument in DC that no one ever talks about

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34591258)



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Date: March 1st, 2018 2:51 PM
Author: chestnut degenerate



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#35515340)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 7:57 PM
Author: Scarlet charismatic newt

Lincoln rejected the offer of counter elephants from Siam.

https://www.civilwar.org/learn/primary-sources/lincoln-rejects-king-siams-offer-elephants

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34591261)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 8:00 PM
Author: crystalline tantric jap

Great letter, I liked this line:

"Our political jurisdiction, however, does not reach a latitude so low as to favor the multiplication of the elephant, and steam on land, as well as on water, has been our best and most efficient agent of transportation in internal commerce."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34591278)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 8:04 PM
Author: At-the-ready double fault

Lincoln gets shit on a lot for meddling in military affairs as a politician, but he deserves credit here. Winfield Scott had lobbied hard for the creation of a 500-elephant Union Mahout Corps, arguing it could end the war in a fortnight, but Lincoln astutely recognized the huge logistical difficulties of the enterprise and directed Union resources in more profitable directions.

Little-known fact, btw: The first iteration of Scott's Anaconda Plan called for literally flooding the South with anacondas imported from Brazil.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34591311)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 8:31 PM
Author: Sienna menage hunting ground

fuck, I know you're right, but 500 war elephants decked out in gorgeous blue uniforms would have been a sight to behold

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34591455)



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Date: November 6th, 2017 10:04 AM
Author: supple disturbing toaster multi-billionaire



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34615911)



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Date: April 6th, 2018 12:26 PM
Author: pungent awkward abode feces



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#35778086)



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Date: April 6th, 2018 12:26 PM
Author: pungent awkward abode feces



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#35778082)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 7:57 PM
Author: crystalline tantric jap

Last use of war elephants in battle was later in 1893:

...in south-east Asia the use of elephants on the battlefield continued up until the end of the 19th century. One of the major difficulties in the region was terrain, and elephants could cross difficult terrain in many cases more easily than horse cavalry. Burmese forces used war elephants to oppose British forces until the First Anglo-Burmese War March–April 1825 battle of Danubyu, where they were stopped by Congreve rocket fire. The Siamese Army continued utilising war elephants armed with jingals up until the Franco-Siamese War of 1893, while the Vietnamese used them in battle as late as 1885, during the Sino-French War.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34591265)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 8:30 PM
Author: vivacious office fat ankles



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34591452)



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Date: November 2nd, 2017 10:42 PM
Author: orchid provocative shrine



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#34592481)



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Date: March 1st, 2018 2:47 PM
Author: Adventurous stage french chef



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#35515311)



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Date: March 1st, 2018 2:49 PM
Author: chestnut degenerate



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#35515331)



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Date: April 6th, 2018 12:22 PM
Author: Histrionic Fluffy Institution People Who Are Hurt



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#35778042)



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Date: April 6th, 2018 12:30 PM
Author: thriller sadistic reading party



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#35778111)



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Date: April 6th, 2018 12:51 PM
Author: Dark lascivious den

To be fair,

Particularly ironic given that a major factor in the Union's ultimate victory was their conscription of war monkeys.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#35778300)



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Date: June 29th, 2018 12:24 AM
Author: Sienna menage hunting ground



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#36332777)



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Date: July 18th, 2018 8:29 PM
Author: massive associate ticket booth



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#36455545)



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Date: August 6th, 2019 12:10 PM
Author: Sienna menage hunting ground



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#38645888)



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Date: May 23rd, 2020 1:37 PM
Author: turquoise mewling boltzmann



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#40262045)



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Date: April 23rd, 2021 11:08 PM
Author: Adventurous stage french chef



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#42339924)



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Date: May 3rd, 2022 4:12 PM
Author: Stimulating pozpig



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#44448712)



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Date: June 5th, 2022 10:54 PM
Author: Impressive apoplectic brunch internal respiration



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#44633292)



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Date: June 5th, 2022 11:20 PM
Author: Alcoholic Idiotic Sandwich



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#44633450)



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Date: June 5th, 2022 11:22 PM
Author: Opaque anal rigor idiot



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#44633457)



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Date: February 20th, 2024 3:32 PM
Author: Adventurous stage french chef



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3783596&forum_id=2#47420790)