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BIGLAWMOS: Hours check in... year is almost done, how many hours have u billed?
| crystalline brethren | 11/17/17 |
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: November 17th, 2017 12:05 AM Author: crystalline brethren (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706529) |
Date: November 17th, 2017 12:06 AM Author: Motley area (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706535) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:07 AM Author: Salmon glittery double fault 2700 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706551) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:08 AM Author: crystalline brethren fuck bro (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706553) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:08 AM Author: Salmon glittery double fault 2700.01 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706557) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:08 AM Author: yapping unhinged resort 1330 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706556) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:09 AM Author: crystalline brethren I hope ur kidding (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706560) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:10 AM Author: yapping unhinged resort Why do you hope I'm kidding? I'm not kidding. It comes on the heels of a 1650 year (first year at firm), and an 1825 year (last year). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706567) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:12 AM Author: Salmon glittery double fault You’ll be fine. Every dipshit associate is trying to make America’s next top associate. The firm ultimately doesn’t care and just needs bodies. You can float by with your stats for like 7 years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706578) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:23 AM Author: yapping unhinged resort I learned this pretty quick...or I didn't give a fuck. Either way I laugh when I see people billing 2200+. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706650) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:23 AM Author: Salmon glittery double fault (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706653) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:26 AM Author: Fighting comical locus generalized bond (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706663) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:08 PM Author: lemon stage gay wizard Guy who "gets it"*
(*"it" meaning "laid off") |
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Date: December 5th, 2017 6:13 PM Author: crystalline brethren (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34847274) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:49 AM Author: Floppy haunting temple that's utter bullshit. no firm is going to keep someone around who is billing those kinds of hours consistently. billing that every third year, fine, not every year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706790) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:51 AM Author: Salmon glittery double fault (Tyra Banks) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706801) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 3:07 AM Author: Concupiscible sickened headpube feces shut up faggot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34707303) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:09 PM Author: lemon stage gay wizard Probably covers salary+overhead, plus not like there's a ton of associates these days. He's fine for the time being. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710079) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:12 PM Author: Abnormal hairraiser house electric furnace Probably covered salary and overhead at 600 hours. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710100) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:52 AM Author: tantric newt are you an utter slacker or what? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706808) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:08 AM Author: talented national hissy fit 0 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706558) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:03 PM Author: Insecure Cerebral Point (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710006) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:10 AM Author: boyish immigrant son of senegal 2060 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706565) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:26 AM Author: razzmatazz gaming laptop Just under 1800. Also have like 50 more in pro bono. Still not sure if they actually count that shit toward anything. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706665) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:28 AM Author: Salmon glittery double fault You should find out faggot. Don’t you want a gold star next to your name when the partners talk amongst each other?? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706675) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:30 AM Author: razzmatazz gaming laptop They say they do. But I’ve never needed pro bono to make hours and I could see these money hungry fuckers coming up with a reason why they don’t count. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706682) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:32 AM Author: Salmon glittery double fault A lot of firms seek you out and give you a talk if you bill too many pb hours. It’s very bizarre, half of it is about how great it is that you’re helping people the other half is how you should do less of it. If you’re ever on a Section 1983 prisoner rights case expect to have this talk with the tight bodied “pro bono partner” once a quarter. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706708) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:35 AM Author: razzmatazz gaming laptop Lol I just got roped into a 1983 case but it’ll only be a few 2017 hours. Probably a bunch in 18. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706722) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:37 AM Author: Salmon glittery double fault Tread carefully friend. It’s all fun and games and sucking off correctional officer dick but it can all come crashing down in an instant. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706737) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:30 AM Author: marvelous haunted graveyard university 2400 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706683) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:54 AM Author: Trip Travel Guidebook Sneaky Criminal 1488 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34706821) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 3:16 AM Author: Floppy haunting temple why are your hours so low? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34707327) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 3:58 AM Author: Trip Travel Guidebook Sneaky Criminal I blame the Jews (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34707405) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:01 PM Author: Vermilion embarrassed to the bone legal warrant 180 subthread (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34709981) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:03 PM Author: onyx pontificating home ceo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710007) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:59 PM Author: Trip Travel Guidebook Sneaky Criminal (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34709959) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 12:59 PM Author: Outnumbered international law enforcement agency library *nervous laugh* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34709972) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:02 PM Author: Vermilion embarrassed to the bone legal warrant banker here, counting hours sounds killself worthy.
question: when we hire a firm on our deals, it's always for a fixed dollar amount. do they still have to count hours internally? |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:03 PM Author: Outnumbered international law enforcement agency library Probably but they'll just make up wildly inflated numbers for fixed fee to try to hit billable for the year. Which isn't too dissimilar to billing on hourly matters now that I think about it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710010) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:08 PM Author: Trip Travel Guidebook Sneaky Criminal (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710071) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:05 PM Author: burgundy range chad Yes, absolutely. The associates likely don't know about the arrangement. The partners will dump in a ton of hours if there's room in the budget so that they can make their own hour targets. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710028) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:14 PM Author: Outnumbered international law enforcement agency library At my firm there are code words for this.
"Try to be efficient" means we are getting a flat fee or the client is cheap and the partner is going to write off half my hours and blame me regardless, so either way I'm going to bill aggressively.
"Let's cover every base on this one" means the client has deep pockets and we should run up the bill.
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:16 PM Author: Vermilion embarrassed to the bone legal warrant do you end up getting fucked at the end of the year because ur like "hey I billed 2400 hours" and the partner is like "yeah but we had to write off 1/3 of them hehe" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710144) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:18 PM Author: wonderful snowy half-breed bawdyhouse not at good firms where 3rd years bill $650 an hour and clear their salary and overhead at 700 hours.
at lower amlaw 100 shops where the hourly is $300ish, realization rate is definitely part of the review and bonus discussion |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:19 PM Author: onyx pontificating home ceo Law firms have a system that allow you to see what your realization rate is based on how much you billed versus how much went on the actual bill versus how much the client actually paid
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:22 PM Author: Vermilion embarrassed to the bone legal warrant surprised biglaw suicides aren't a daily thing. i guess if i had to count hours i would just work like normal and then totally make up the hours to achieve whatever number i wanted (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710200) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:23 PM Author: onyx pontificating home ceo You can't just "work normally" and expect to keep your job. If you're not getting shit done you'll just get fired. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710209) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:27 PM Author: Vermilion embarrassed to the bone legal warrant i mean in my job now i work long hours and everything, but i don't sit around saying "oh i spent 6 minutes reading that email and 45 minutes on that conference call." i'd just do my work and then at the end of the month i'd backfill to get to 237 hours (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710253) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:28 PM Author: onyx pontificating home ceo yeah, you don't have to track it that accurately (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710263) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:28 PM Author: Abnormal hairraiser house electric furnace Not all firm -in mine this information was locked up tighter than Fort Knox (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710265) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:31 PM Author: burgundy range chad I've worked at two big firms. One was super-secretive about anything and I never heard about hours; the other was much more open about it, partners asking why you were in the bottom third of the office for a month, only had 91.6% realization, etc. Far preferred the former. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710297) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:32 PM Author: Abnormal hairraiser house electric furnace The only plausible reason for the latter is to make the associates even more competitive with each other than they already are.
I'm pretty sure my firm kept so tightlipped because they didn't want associates knowing how much they were making off us relative to our salaries. |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:32 PM Author: onyx pontificating home ceo lol the head of our group gave us the firm's income statement and everything. Maybe my firm is just pretty transparent. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710308) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:33 PM Author: Orchid dilemma ive been at 2 firms and it's been wildly different. at first firm, there was no access. at the second i get monthly emails about it and i can actually see this information for all timekeepers who have billed to a given matter. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710322) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:04 PM Author: onyx pontificating home ceo 1750 right now. I should be pretty close to 2000 by the end of the year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710019) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:04 PM Author: chrome mind-boggling heaven gunner mine ends sept 30 - 2005 hours. i don't bill for the vast majority of my travel time, though, so that should be like 2300 hours. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710023) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:05 PM Author: onyx pontificating home ceo do the clients pay for it? Billing for travel time is extremely 180. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710037) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:07 PM Author: chrome mind-boggling heaven gunner rainmaker i get most of my work from (like 95%) has a policy where his clients don't get charged for travel time.
so basically i eat like 300+ hours a year because we travel all the time. you figure out ways to get billable work done while traveling but it sucks ass. |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:10 PM Author: onyx pontificating home ceo yeah, that's gay as hell.
Last year I had this big project where I was on the road for basically a month. It was a billing bonanza. |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:07 PM Author: Abnormal hairraiser house electric furnace I'm pretty sure you were reading Depo transcripts on the plane. Might want to review that entry again (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710052) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:07 PM Author: chrome mind-boggling heaven gunner oh, i do miniscule amounts of work on planes and there is some serious padding that goes on (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710060) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:04 PM Author: Transparent stag film gaping Probably like 1000. We don't really do doc review, so it is hard to manufacture time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710025) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:06 PM Author: wonderful snowy half-breed bawdyhouse 1358 client chargeable to date. paternity leave starts any day now and my two weeks drop on my first day back from leave (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710039) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:08 PM Author: burgundy range chad 1,834.2 mostly on about 90 vc deals. What a life. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710061) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:12 PM Author: Plum Tattoo you did 90 VC deals from your garage office? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710105) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:13 PM Author: burgundy range chad yeah (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710111) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:13 PM Author: Plum Tattoo 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710117) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:15 PM Author: burgundy range chad Working for someone who's cool with WFH is great. Also miss all of the office negativity and don't have to go to firm events. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710136) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:16 PM Author: Abnormal hairraiser house electric furnace You get paid hourly right? Did your pay rate depend on what theyre billing you at on the certain project or is it the same no matter what (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710143) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:18 PM Author: burgundy range chad Yeah. Same no matter what. Most clients have the same rate. Some are lower for historical reasons. I get a small % of the work I bring in, too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710162) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:19 PM Author: Abnormal hairraiser house electric furnace Do they gyp you by writing down your hours? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710175) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:21 PM Author: burgundy range chad No, I get paid for what's on my time entries. I tend to be fairly conservative with billing, though. If they were consistently eating time I'm sure I'd hear it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710198) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:13 PM Author: Transparent stag film gaping I think SV garage startups prefer this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710119) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:16 PM Author: burgundy range chad We have an office I just don't go to it. Most clients don't know that I'm not in khakis in an office. The clients who do know seem to think it's cool, though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710141) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:16 PM Author: Plum Tattoo do they know you tuck your tshirt into your jeans and eat tofu "pork" buns in a garage all day? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710149) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:20 PM Author: burgundy range chad Jeans are weekend-only and I'm UNTUCKED unless the shirt is super long and I haven't had the hem raised or I'm wearing a sportcoat.
Usually basketball shorts and an old t-shirt. I have a dress shirt on a hanger that I wear (usually) if I have a video call.
They do not know about the "pork" buns or "beef" noodle soup. |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 2:58 PM Author: charcoal sanctuary indirect expression the dress shirt on the hanger is 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34711005) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 8:14 PM Author: histrionic fluffy messiness yarmulke do you keep an emergency romper, felt hat, brunch bags and a blonde wig for your wife in case clients stop by unexpectedly? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34713471) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:08 PM Author: crusty swashbuckling jap organic girlfriend (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710064) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:23 PM Author: insanely creepy brass patrolman indian lodge 2200. Fiscal year ends Nov 31. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710206) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:24 PM Author: burgundy range chad Is that what's expected or are you just busy? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710215) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:30 PM Author: insanely creepy brass patrolman indian lodge I'm busy but I also like to work a lot since it results in me making more money. most partners do not bill anywhere near 2000 and most associates bill around 2000. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710287) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 8:35 PM Author: insane rose corner You’ve been a bill pig for 10 years and you don’t know November has 30 days? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34713563) |
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Date: November 20th, 2017 11:53 AM Author: Irradiated sooty box office (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34730788) |
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Date: November 20th, 2017 11:55 AM Author: excitant doctorate 30 days hath September April June and November All the rest have 31 Save February. Calendars are fun! |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:27 PM Author: wine degenerate spot 2,000. Will be at 2300 by year end. Took a month off between vacation and paternity. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710250) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 1:35 PM Author: Orchid dilemma ended oct. 31. 2,008 hours with over 300 the last month to get there lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710343) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 5:13 PM Author: Abnormal hairraiser house electric furnace (me in 2016). Literally billed an extra hour late at night so my time sheet wouldn't read 2000.4 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34712155) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 2:39 PM Author: Irradiated sooty box office idk like 1950? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710871) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 8:14 PM Author: Orange razzle set corn cake What do you think one of us is Ina better position to answer this question for you? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34713476) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 2:49 PM Author: Ocher Razzle-dazzle New Version Shrine Ended 10/31. Approx 2400. Lol at the slackers itt. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710932) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 2:50 PM Author: Irradiated sooty box office aren't you like a 12th year associate? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34710942) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 8:11 PM Author: Ocher Razzle-dazzle New Version Shrine Nah... not yet at least (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34713458) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 5:16 PM Author: Vibrant hilarious abode juggernaut (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34712179) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 9:22 PM Author: Charismatic trailer park U just cop those $5000 retainers? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34713909) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 8:38 PM Author: clear principal's office rigor About 1700 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34713579) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 9:11 PM Author: citrine office Who knows. We have a program that logs our time, but I just make up the hours every month. I'm bigfed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34713826) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 9:13 PM Author: Learning disabled bull headed filthpig partner 1650 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34713840) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 9:23 PM Author: lime supple pisswyrm GOOOD GOYIM (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34713925) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 9:24 PM Author: electric twinkling uncleanness address https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI3WdytWJvc (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34713932) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 10:11 PM Author: Trip Travel Guidebook Sneaky Criminal (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34714363) |
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Date: November 18th, 2017 12:09 PM Author: Trip Travel Guidebook Sneaky Criminal (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34717030) |
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Date: November 18th, 2017 12:17 PM Author: excitant doctorate Let's just say I hit the bonus tier I want a while ago and have very little marginal incentive to bill any more time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34717081) |
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Date: November 18th, 2017 12:58 PM Author: fragrant light hall 1418 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34717335) |
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Date: December 5th, 2017 6:15 PM Author: crystalline brethren hehe (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3800086&forum_id=2#34847284) |