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Just had phone interview with a gaming company in LA
Poast new message in this thread
Date: November 17th, 2017 6:17 PM Author: Electric set coffee pot for senior finance role. base salary is in the "range of $130-$200K" according to HR. huge range. the job doesn't sound too interesting though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34712668) |
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Date: December 5th, 2017 1:54 PM Author: charismatic stock car senate http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3758205&forum_id=2 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34845176) |
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Date: December 5th, 2017 1:54 PM Author: charismatic stock car senate http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3758205&forum_id=2 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34845177) |
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Date: December 5th, 2017 1:54 PM Author: charismatic stock car senate http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3758205&forum_id=2 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34845178) |
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Date: December 5th, 2017 1:54 PM Author: charismatic stock car senate http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3758205&forum_id=2 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34845179) |
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Date: December 5th, 2017 1:54 PM Author: charismatic stock car senate http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3758205&forum_id=2 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34845180) |
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Date: December 5th, 2017 1:54 PM Author: charismatic stock car senate http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3758205&forum_id=2 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34845182) |
Date: November 17th, 2017 6:38 PM Author: Chrome Exciting Community Account was "HR" a bubbly 24 y/o blonde from USC (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34712807) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 7:40 PM Author: Electric set coffee pot No idea what she looks like. She sounded older. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34713242) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 6:38 PM Author: ultramarine swashbuckling lodge hows riot bro (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34712816) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 6:48 PM Author: pale affirmative action milk (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34712893) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 6:47 PM Author: Violent buck-toothed parlor That’s a legit role to be a CFO you actually have to know finance and accounting
Not like working in a back office compliance role at a hedge fund |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 7:40 PM Author: Electric set coffee pot The group is all ex-bankers, which surprised me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34713247) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 7:41 PM Author: razzmatazz home round eye Irvine isn't LA bro (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34713250) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 7:41 PM Author: Maniacal yellow space indirect expression Blizzard? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34713251) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 10:50 PM Author: Electric set coffee pot No comment (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34714507) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 10:52 PM Author: razzmatazz home round eye Can you post the pic of you at blizzard headquarters (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34714516) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 10:53 PM Author: judgmental cruel-hearted house that's OC, Irvine (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34714519) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 10:54 PM Author: razzmatazz home round eye Ragnus knows he interviewed there before (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34714524) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 9:05 PM Author: Electric set coffee pot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34713765) |
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Date: November 17th, 2017 10:54 PM Author: razzmatazz home round eye I drove by blizzard headquarters recently They have full on gates and guards for the parking lot |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:10 AM Author: appetizing idiot That’s to keep out orcs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745715) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:13 AM Author: Impertinent Legal Warrant (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745734) |
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Date: November 29th, 2017 4:43 PM Author: Ruby Hospital (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34800064) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:15 AM Author: vigorous theater Bro, I have been stalked in my office after we made a change to one of our games. I can only imagine how many insane fans blizz gets from WoW. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745744) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:24 AM Author: Maniacal yellow space indirect expression Game of war? How come they stopped buying gazillion ads? |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:27 AM Author: vigorous theater This was years ago.
My understanding is that they switched to marketing that new Final Fantasy game. I imagine the roi on spend was higher if click throughs with the brand were better. |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 1:18 AM Author: Maniacal yellow space indirect expression Ohh that’s machine zone too... I guess Mariah Carey worked out well now they getting Alexis Ren. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34746069) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 1:21 AM Author: vigorous theater I mean, they have a model and they're sticking to it. I wonder how well this game will do. There's a lot of weird stuff happening in mobile right now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34746080) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 1:24 AM Author: Maniacal yellow space indirect expression Thoughts on Lineage 2’s marketing strategy? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34746090) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 1:26 AM Author: vigorous theater It was interesting to see a company go all in on pre-reg like that. Very unusual.
In general, I'm very skeptical about paying influencers to talk about your game. It essentially operates as an admission to the marketplace that your game doesn't have content that is independently worth talking about.
That said, I've started playing it a bit and it isn't half bad compared to other claimants to the MMORPG throne. |
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Date: December 5th, 2017 1:53 PM Author: heady effete digit ratio yarmulke a friend of mine used to work for them and said relations with fans were remarkably chill compared to the RPG publisher he worked for before that (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34845172) |
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Date: November 18th, 2017 12:04 PM Author: Hairraiser national security agency If it's Scopely stay away... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34717008) |
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Date: November 20th, 2017 3:29 PM Author: Electric set coffee pot not scopely (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34733102) |
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Date: November 21st, 2017 11:28 PM Author: Electric set coffee pot 2nd round phone next week (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745463) |
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Date: November 21st, 2017 11:55 PM Author: Stimulating stage liquid oxygen good luck
ib bro? this sounds like an awesome role |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:03 AM Author: sickened police squad field good luck. FP&A? what's your previous experience (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745676) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:09 AM Author: Electric set coffee pot No, it's not FP&A. I'm doing finance at a FAANG tech firm. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745714) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:15 AM Author: sickened police squad field why are you leaving?
was asking because work bro is interviewing for fp&a director role at activision. |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:19 AM Author: Electric set coffee pot I'm not aggressively looking but open to opportunities.
Several reasons:
1. I don't find the work that interesting. Finance at a FAANG is basically second-class citizens, since it's the engineers and product managers who are driving the actual strategy. I'm a hardcore finance geek who loves modeling, valuation, and research, and the job is more "controllership" and holding the hands of various business groups.
2. I really hate the city I currently live in.
3. My comp is OK, but it could be better, and I'm not satisfied.
What's your friend's background like? |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:25 AM Author: sickened police squad field yeah finance in my experience needs to know the entire business but decisions rarely originate from there.
can't say because doobs but we're at one of the only employers worth their salt in LA. he's a finance manager. |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:28 AM Author: Electric set coffee pot Correct. I'm in like every meeting with product, content, marketing, accounting, and have to deal with their shit but have little power over actual strategy and direction. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745817) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:31 AM Author: vigorous theater Hie thee to operations if this bothers you. Finance in companies is often just viewed as a cost savings unit similar to lawyers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745838) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:32 AM Author: Electric set coffee pot yeah, I should've done investment banking, where finance calls the shots. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745846) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:35 AM Author: vigorous theater You can make the transition, but it'll probably take a bit of doing at the right firm. I'd look for a post-A startup. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745865) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:39 AM Author: sickened police squad field to IB? how the fuck? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745884) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:40 AM Author: vigorous theater No, to operations from a finance role in a company. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745893) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:07 AM Author: vigorous theater Pay and working conditions will depend massively on which company and which role.
Blizz is a mess right now on the finance side. Been cleaning it up for some time.
Riot in major transition, but still a good place to work if you want to join the cult.
Activision is a ruthless heart of darkness but the best run company (from a business perspective) in games by far. Bobby is probably one of the best deal makers alive.
But yeah, none of this is going to be super interesting unless they have you in strategic modeling on the game side. |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:09 AM Author: Electric set coffee pot Doesn't Activision own Blizzard?
Yeah, this role doesn't seem interesting. HR said it's product finance, which to me is total BS. |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:11 AM Author: vigorous theater Yeah, but Bobby is relatively hands off so long as they hit numbers. Frank and Mike have run the shop for forever and the culture reflects their sensibilities rather than ATVI's. Completely different companies -- ATVI is like a rehash of Proctor and Gamble but for games (pure brand management) whereas Blizz is a true developer.
I'd want to know way more about the role before I make any decisions. In general, you want to be as close to game operations as humanly possible if you want upside in a game company. |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:17 AM Author: Electric set coffee pot Thanks. This is super helpful.
Does one have to be a hardcore gamer to enjoy working at these firms? I'm not a gamer, so worried about being surrounded by aspie gaming freaks.
Also, what are exit opps like? |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:22 AM Author: vigorous theater Not required but it really helps at Blizz.
Required at Riot. They check pretty much everyone's LoL account before they make a hire. If you don't play they view it as a pretty strong sign you aren't a culture fit. Even for roles like finance (though obviously less so than things directly touching a game).
ATVI doesn't give a fuck -- Bobby doesn't play games and doesn't really enjoy them. ATVI is staffed out with a bunch of hardcore brand operators from P&G.
In general, the people at the tops of these companies are reasonably well adjusted humans that are really fucking smart. I know most of them to some extent and I like interacting with them. The hyper aspieness is more common at the middle and bottom portions of the company and they generally stick to themselves.
Exit ops are worse than other businesses of equivalent size. Games are insular, though they're becoming significantly less so. I'd generally not suggest going into games unless you have some underlying desire to be in them. You learn a bunch of hyper idiosyncratic stuff that just doesn't travel super well. |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:24 AM Author: Electric set coffee pot Wow. This is really good to know. Yeah, that's my biggest concern with working at a gaming firm; it's super niche, and I imagine the type of finance I would do is not something that's easily transferable. My concern, despite the fact that I love LA, is that I will be "stuck" in gaming, which is not a spot I want to be in. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745789) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:26 AM Author: Aromatic mint hissy fit spin, ratfucks (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745801) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:29 AM Author: vigorous theater You probably won't be stuck, but you also probably won't have invested the years very well unless this position is materially better than anything you can get elsewhere.
So, if this would bump you up two titles and no one else is offering the same, then go for it. Otherwise, I'd just take some extra caution.
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:22 AM Author: Maniacal yellow space indirect expression Definitely don’t be an aspie gamer freak.. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745783) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:23 AM Author: vigorous theater ;) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745786) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:23 AM Author: walnut 180 shrine (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745785) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:25 AM Author: vigorous theater I'd have to know the title, the company and the year he joined to give a decent estimate.
For example, the last two years have been a great time to be at EA with the stock lurching forward. Base comp is lower but the stock makes up for it.
Comp at riot is decent but the gravy train has largely left the station after Tencent completed the acquisition.
ATVI is known to underpay. Kotick runs a very tight ship. |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:29 AM Author: walnut 180 shrine (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745831) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:32 AM Author: vigorous theater Director? I mean, impossible to tell without more info.
I can make up a big number so you feel terrible about yourself though. :D |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:35 AM Author: walnut 180 shrine (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745864) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:36 AM Author: vigorous theater Eh...that seems like it'd be on the high end unless stock has been going gangbusters. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745872) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:32 AM Author: Electric set coffee pot HR told me during our call that this position will have a base between $100 and $200K. I was like, "uh that's a pretty big range," and she said that it will depend on the person. I told her straight up that a minimum base for me is $130K but that I'm more comfortable in the $140-$150K range. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745842) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:33 AM Author: azure boiling water native You suck at negotiating (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745852) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:34 AM Author: vigorous theater I think you pick a number you think you are worth and stick by it until proven otherwise. I also don't get deep into salary until they're offering me a job -- generally have a lot more leverage then.
It's hard for me to comment on salary negotiations since I use a super unorthodox strategy on this stuff. |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:36 AM Author: walnut 180 shrine curious to know your strategy and whether it has worked. i always cave then they ask what i make, how much i expect, current comp plan, etc (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745869) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:37 AM Author: vigorous theater I tell them to make an offer that properly values what they expect me to do with the company.
Then, regardless of whatever the first offer is, I say: "Not close."
EDIT: When asked why, I say they either don't expect me to do much, or they hope I'll do what they want me to do but don't want to value it correctly. Either way, they'll have to do better.
EDIT2: I have also countered with: "More." "Of what?" "Everything." |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:43 AM Author: walnut 180 shrine are you pretty sought after? what kind of benefits do you currently have now that you got through this kind of negotiation? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745912) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:52 AM Author: vigorous theater When I interview, it's generally for C-suite for startups and VP/SVP for public companies. I've been using this as my approach since I was director level.
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 1:01 AM Author: Electric set coffee pot What's like the highest comp package you've been offered? Looking for numbers, not the actual company. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34746004) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 1:08 AM Author: vigorous theater (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34746033) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:41 AM Author: Electric set coffee pot how does riot do comp since they are owned by tencent and hence no stock awards? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745900) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:42 AM Author: vigorous theater Yeah, they've been implementing new plans around this recently. I haven't gotten a clear answer on it -- I think it might be a profit sharing pool but I really don't know. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745909) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:43 AM Author: Electric set coffee pot Safe to say that working for one of these companies carries no social prestige or status in LA? Nothing like working at Google/FB in silicon valley or an elite finance firm in NYC. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745917) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:44 AM Author: azure boiling water native LOL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34745921) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:48 AM Author: vigorous theater Riot is reasonably sexy in LA, but nothing like working in the entertainment industry.
When I left movies for games when I was down in LA people looked at me like I was fucking insane. |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 1:01 AM Author: Electric set coffee pot Do you have a throwaway e-mail account where I can reach out? No big deal if you're not comfortable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34746001) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 1:10 AM Author: vigorous theater knavexoxohth@gmail.com
I don't check it much though. This is my first time back on xo in about a month. |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 1:44 AM Author: Electric set coffee pot I e-mailed you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34746162) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 1:38 PM Author: Electric set coffee pot Sent you a response late last night (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34749043) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 2:43 PM Author: Hairraiser national security agency Those companies (FB, GOOG) really aren't prestigious around here anymore. IMO, most of the next tier of companies that had potential to become prestigious have generally flamed out (Dropbox is LOL and Uber is toxic to have on your resume). Looking back, the smart move was to go to slightly more under the radar companies that became unicorns, it's how I'm getting my $$$. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34749627) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 2:46 PM Author: Electric set coffee pot Dropbox is still prestigious as fuck and pay better than even Google and FB. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34749657) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 2:50 PM Author: Hairraiser national security agency Everyone knows Dropbox is a down round destination, perks already cut, early employees and a lot of talent already vested out and gone, and not much equity pool to get new talent in except for people who are desperate. They missed their window, if you live in SV you know this as fact. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34749702) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 2:52 PM Author: Electric set coffee pot BULLSHIT. Dropbox is gonna go public in 2018, and their across the board comp is amongst the highest out there. What's your information source? I have several friends who work there, both in tech and business strategy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34749735) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 2:57 PM Author: Hairraiser national security agency Will never have an IPO at a valuation higher than their last funding round, and anyone who thinks otherwise can just look at Box's market cap (competitor w/ better enterprise product). IT at my last two companies killed Dropbox either in favor of using Google Drive w/in GSuite or switching to Box.
https://venturebeat.com/2017/09/09/can-unicorn-dropbox-avoid-a-down-round-ipo/
Perks being cut:
http://www.businessinsider.com/cost-cutting-at-dropbox-and-silicon-valley-startups-2016-5
I'm not going to Google all this shit for you dude. It's well known, DropBox missed their window. The people who made out on it are early employees who sold their shares to later investors.
Slack, Atlassian and Okta, in descending order, are far more desirable than Dropbox. |
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Date: November 29th, 2017 4:40 PM Author: peach theater stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34800037) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 12:31 AM Author: azure boiling water native JUST INTERVIEWED AT A GAMING COMPANYYY!!!! ... for a non-tech job
Dude gaming is the worse place to be in tech. Maybe it’s worth it if you LOVE GAMING, but as a lawyer obviously you’ll be far from any game engineering. You can probably land something more legit in SV |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 1:16 AM Author: pale affirmative action milk (Grandma’s boy troll) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34746059) |
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Date: November 30th, 2017 5:45 PM Author: Electric set coffee pot not a lawyer (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34808566) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 1:22 PM Author: Electric set coffee pot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34748870) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2017 2:25 PM Author: jade church building twinkling uncleanness ITT: Disillusioned JJC in Seattle is moving jobs again, xoxo poasters oblivious (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34749490) |
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Date: November 24th, 2017 4:50 PM Author: Electric set coffee pot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34763568) |
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Date: November 28th, 2017 8:03 PM Author: Electric set coffee pot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34793287) |
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Date: November 29th, 2017 4:41 PM Author: tantric newt i have a cousin (by marriage, don't know him very well) who works for Bethesda and has been on the design teams for some really big games, like the Fallout series. I think he had a hand in coming up with the concept. There are some others he designed but I can't remember what.
he went to some ttt law school in CA but opted to go into this field.
i really wonder what he makes. |
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Date: December 5th, 2017 1:55 PM Author: Brindle cuckoldry no wonder bethesda games are dogshit they're hiring lawyers to code (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34845183) |
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Date: December 5th, 2017 3:03 PM Author: Electric set coffee pot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34845731) |
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Date: November 29th, 2017 4:42 PM Author: Crimson disturbing roommate i heard working at activision sucks (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34800061) |
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Date: December 5th, 2017 1:50 PM Author: Electric set coffee pot not activision (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3801023&forum_id=2#34845148) |