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Great essay on illegal immigration in Foreign Policy
Poast new message in this thread
Date: December 10th, 2017 2:40 PM Author: Marvelous famous landscape painting stage If you believe you’re a citizen of the world, you’re a citizen of nowhere,” proclaimed British Prime Minister Theresa May in October 2016.
But it was only in the early 20th century that the modern, convoluted superstructure of passports and visas came about, on a planet where porous borders had been a fact of life for years beyond count. Migration is like the weather: People will move from areas of high pressure to those of low pressure. And so they will keep coming, in boats and on bicycles, whether you want them or not — because they are the creditors.
Why are Mexicans, Guatemalans, Hondurans, and Salvadorans desperate to move north, to come to U.S. cities to work as dishwashers and cleaning ladies? It’s because Americans sell them guns and buy their drugs. Their homicide figures are indicative of a civil war. So they move to the cause of their misery; they, too, are the creditors. If you don’t like them moving here, don’t buy drugs.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/09/12/this-land-is-their-land-america-europe-fear-of-migrants-trump/ |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 2:44 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal histrionic space reading party this is a fucking retarded argument. there was massive illegal immigration from mexico (1950s) even before drug trade was a big deal. not to mention that we also get illegals from places like India, China, bangladesh where there is no impact from US narcotics consumption
Illegals move to US not because of its constitution or freedom or values like cucks and libs allege - They move for 2 reasons only: They want to make money and second they are tired of the violence/corruption/dysfunction in their home countries
it has nothing to do with what US did to those countries or American values |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 2:52 PM Author: Alcoholic kitchen factory reset button "second they are tired of the violence/corruption/dysfunction in their home countries"
That is essentially the freedom/values argument you just bashed, even if immigrants don't think about it too deeply. |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:05 PM Author: red rough-skinned electric furnace filthpig Tbh it doesn’t really matter why they want to come here. The only factor that matters is if we want them here or not. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34883393) |
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Date: December 11th, 2017 5:47 AM Author: Contagious new version (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34888303) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:07 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal histrionic space reading party US could be a right wing dictatorship instead of democracy and they would still move to US. So yes they are not moving for freedom or constitutional values like libs/cucks allege - they are moving for stability and for a well run society and dont give a shit if its democracy with freedom of speech or pinochet running a military dictatorship
the main motivation is money - illegals would never move to a poorer country unless facing total extinction like nazis/jews. second (this applies more to educated illegals who overstay their visas etc) is for stability and a well run society
so yes it has nothing to do with "freedom or american values". india has even more illegals than US. think about that. its all about money and wage disparity |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:35 PM Author: Alcoholic kitchen factory reset button "US could be a right wing dictatorship instead of democracy and they would still move to US. So yes they are not moving for freedom or constitutional values like libs/cucks allege - they are moving for stability and for a well run society and dont give a shit if its democracy with freedom of speech or pinochet running a military dictatorship"
You are significantly understating the draw of a culture that not only places importance on the rule of law, but is also, relative to other countries, very open, and very accepting of other cultures. Right-wing dictatorships are not inclusive. My parents are immigrants as are many of the people I've met in grade school and professionally. Some were blue-collar and others came on h1b's. American culture (not rigid class/caste-oriented, open and accepting of racial/ethnic diversity) is a huge, huge draw. |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:43 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal histrionic space reading party true and correct for the people who went to IIT and Tsinghua and came to study at MIT/Berkeley and stayed back legally or educated illegals who come here on a tourist/student visa and stay back. that is why i gave 2 primary motivations for illegal immigration and second generally applies to educated, high skilled illegals
but an illiterate mexican laborer from a remote village only knows that he can make much more money in the US. the mexican low skilled illegal literally has no idea of american society, values, culture etc. he would have moved south if Guatemala was superrich and US was a poor country
so what % of illegals do you think are middle class/UMC in their home countries vs illiterate low skilled laborers? so its disingenuous to use the 10% of illegals to analyze the situation which at the end of the day is all about wage disparity
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Date: December 10th, 2017 2:47 PM Author: claret odious headpube Lol these people have no clue. So Americans should just accept because a small minority purchases hard drugs from Mexico we MUST ALLLOW limitless migration of cultural alien people who will drive down wages now and be replaced by automation wholesale within a generation.
A lot of things are "recent inventions" such as human rights, due process, etc. Should we discard those because humanity once seemed to be able to survive without them? |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:01 PM Author: Marvelous famous landscape painting stage A large minority has purchased drugs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34883351) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:40 PM Author: henna roommate senate a large minority of chinese purchased opium in the mid-1800's. does that mean they were obliged to allow the brits and europeans who sold it to them to settle in china? this is nonsensical. we also shouldn't fucking decide national social policy on the basis of childish "turnabout is fair play" gotcha morality. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34883650) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:47 PM Author: talented kitty mad-dog skullcap (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34883686) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 5:06 PM Author: Marvelous famous landscape painting stage It was British government trading companies that sold the opium rather than criminal drug cartels so the opium trade didn't sow chaos by establishing a psycho violent non-government organization in the British Empire that would have forced Brits to migrate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34884218) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 5:09 PM Author: henna roommate senate so what? the core of that "argument" is that end-users of drugs have some kind of moral culpability which invokes some other set of moral remedies that apparently involves border-crossing? that's silly, though - you could just flip it around and say that the end-users are the victims of addiction and that the primary moral duty is on the sellers and distributors not to sell or distribute. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34884248) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 2:56 PM Author: clear school sandwich "porous borders had been a fact of life for years beyond count."
Sure, but what happened to random ass people who just decided to move into another country without speaking the language or anything? Were they just met with open arms? Somehow I am skeptical. Were they allowed access to whatever social safety nets were available to locals? I kinda doubt it. |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:32 PM Author: pungent aqua travel guidebook cr
lol 100 years ago it would have been referred to as an invasion and treated like an act of war. eg The French would have called up the navy to sink migrant boats, etc. That's why it didn't happen. |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:48 PM Author: talented kitty mad-dog skullcap "Were they allowed access to whatever social safety nets were available to locals?"
they were, in the sense that the social safety nets were minimal. |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:54 PM Author: clear school sandwich Even that, I'm a little skeptical. Most of it was probably just neighbors helping each other and shit, and I'm not sure they were as willing to help out the bros down the way who just sauntered in and don't speak the language when their neighbors have been their neighbors for many generations. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34883732) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:04 PM Author: red rough-skinned electric furnace filthpig If you live in a violent shithole that’s your problem not mine. Sorry (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34883381) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:05 PM Author: Soul-stirring nudist personal credit line nonsense (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34883392) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:08 PM Author: Marvelous famous landscape painting stage why? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34883426) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:23 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal histrionic space reading party (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34883533) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:27 PM Author: sticky razzmatazz library corn cake "And so they will keep coming, in boats and on bicycles, whether you want them or not — "
WRONG!
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Date: December 11th, 2017 5:49 AM Author: Contagious new version (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34888305) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:28 PM Author: carnelian menage rigpig FP is a dumb info-tainment mag targeted to low level female government bureaucrats
Appears the writing is hitting their target market dead center
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:49 PM Author: talented kitty mad-dog skullcap (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34883698) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 5:10 PM Author: red rough-skinned electric furnace filthpig (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34884255) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:36 PM Author: henna roommate senate this isn't much of an argument. it can be "defeated" just by asserting that you begin with the premise that nations are sovereign and get to decide and enforce their own migration policies. and if the US as a polity prefers more restrictive migration, then that is its right. end of discussion. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34883634) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:41 PM Author: clear school sandwich Libs seem to think that rejecting a premise out of hand is not allowed or something. Oh immigration is a human right? Well, I disagree. Sort of like how libs reject the premise that fetuses have a right to life. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34883654) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:45 PM Author: Violet frum center partner All lib theories and ideas are predicated on a false premise or idea. Like in this case, it's "let's assume nations don't have sovereign rights to decide who can and should enter a country." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34883680) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:46 PM Author: henna roommate senate you can't really toss out the "nations are sovereign" premise without tossing out a big chunk of the entire modern order, which makes it all the more remarkable that libs attempt to do so with such glibness. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34883684) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 3:50 PM Author: clear school sandwich Libs don't seem to appreciate that giving away power leaves a nation weak, and there are very real consequences to being dominated by other powers. We've been a superpower for enough generations now that we're less able to envision what it would be like if we weren't. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34883705) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 5:07 PM Author: Marvelous famous landscape painting stage No one is going to dominate America just because the borders are more porous. If anything an America with a larger population will create the base for more power projection abroad. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34884232) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 5:11 PM Author: clear school sandwich lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34884260) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 5:13 PM Author: henna roommate senate how the fuck would a fractious, ethnically-divided america with squabbling factions and no dominant groups be capable of the collective action required for global power projection? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34884276) |
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Date: December 11th, 2017 2:52 AM Author: Marvelous famous landscape painting stage There will always be a majority because of assimilation (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34888114) |
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Date: December 11th, 2017 2:54 AM Author: red rough-skinned electric furnace filthpig Assimilation is impossible with immigration at current levels. Especially since it’s mostly coming from one area (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34888118) |
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Date: December 11th, 2017 3:01 AM Author: carnelian menage rigpig (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34888136) |
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Date: December 11th, 2017 3:13 AM Author: Marvelous famous landscape painting stage Latinos are spread all across the country. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34888171) |
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Date: December 11th, 2017 3:34 AM Author: Medicated Weed Whacker Ticket Booth yfwgi (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34888191) |
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Date: December 11th, 2017 5:27 AM Author: Marvelous famous landscape painting stage It's a simple obvious fact (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34888289) |
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Date: December 11th, 2017 6:25 AM Author: Contagious new version (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34888328) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 4:01 PM Author: Titillating spot mediation this is one of the stupidest things ever posted here and you should probably change your moniker to a pumo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34883776) |
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Date: December 10th, 2017 5:06 PM Author: Marvelous famous landscape painting stage You don't have an argument just name calling (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3823841&forum_id=2#34884225) |