Nisbett of all people made his bones propounding Asians tend to be more collectivist. Naturally he ascribes it to nurture.

Could be a reflection of very long term agrarian society without many die off events. Idk, have to look at it more carefully.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3827623&forum_id=2#34909486)

without many die off events???

THe mongolian invasions of China took out half the population

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3827623&forum_id=2#34909548)

Remember that the black death spread from Asia- there were deaths aplenty.

I'd find the diversion point around 400 AD actually

Around the same time, both East and West saw universalistic, solipsistic empires fall by nomadic invaders from the north.

One, after 2 centuries of disorder managed to re-establish the political tradition of the universal empire.

The other had chances to do so- notably under Justinian - but the Islamic invasions made sure that the Mediterranean would no longer be the mare nostrum but rather the demarcation line between civilization.

once there was competition between similar sized states there had to be innovation - China however saw no need to really trade with others - the periphery did not interest them

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3827623&forum_id=2#34909705)

Query, where do the Mongols fit into this? Didn't penetrate into Europe enough?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3827623&forum_id=2#34909728)

They only had structural ruling in areas where they took over existing imperial bureaucracy - Persia, China etc.

Their primary aim was China- everything else was a peripheral conquest, and they never wanted to conquer the West - it was almost happenstance that Batu made it as far as Hungary.

Even as Batu was fighting out west, in the end the main goal was China. The Southern Song, utilizing the river defenses of the Yangtze river held on for over 40 years, during one of which they defeated both the forces of Mongke (the Khan) and his half-brother Kubilai (who would later usurp the throne and break up the Mongolian empir & start the Yuan Dynasty). The Khan actually died during one of these wars, and it was only with rudimentary artillery brought from Islamic technicians from Persia that they were able to defeat China.

In the West, Batu's forces never numbered more than 20k, and I doubt these forces would be able to penetrate further than Hungary even if they wanted to. Yes, they often had ranges of orders of magnitude different from contemporary forces due to their entire-reliance on cavalry, but at the time the Holy Roman Empire was a strong force, and recent scholarship suggests that Western-style knights, if utilized correctly, were very effective against these light cavalrymen.

In hedges/forest-covered Germany, I doubt Mongols could have wreaked more havoc than say, the Magyars (ironically the very people that Mongols destroyed) did in the 8th century.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3827623&forum_id=2#34909797)

For most of China's history, China was characterized by warring tribes/dynasties. Life for the average person was pretty shitty during war. The only times prosperity reigned in the region was when there was a strong central authority (resulting from a winning dynasty) that exercised strict control over various local authorities. When this did not happen, the local authorities were essentially corrupt fiefdoms, and life sucked for the average person yet again.

China also has NEVER had a period where a spirit of individualism prevailed or led to any meaningful success. There were no rugged frontiersmen.

Given this history, it's understandable to me why the Chinese are extremely deferential to a strong central authority and are collectivist as opposed to individualists. It's the only system that has ever worked for them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3827623&forum_id=2#34909792)

http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3724067&forum_id=2#34157363

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3827623&forum_id=2#34909860)