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Critique this shitlib's argument on minimum wage
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Date: January 10th, 2018 3:17 PM Author: arousing philosopher-king school Why should the federal government tolerate companies like Amazon paying wages so low that 10% of its workforce in a state like Ohio are on food stamps? Higher minimum wages reduce the strain placed on many programs including Medicaid, SNAP, TANF, EITC, the list goes on. One would think Republicans would be supportive of efforts to reduce the cost of programs they despise so much, yet they have demonstrated no willingness to do so in a pragmatic and ethical manner. Would it not be more fair and efficient for consumers to pay more through a VAT tax or simply higher prices in order to help cover a living wage? Wouldn't living wages result in a multiplier effect that confers significant benefits on the demand side? Wouldn't living wages help consumers cover the cost of increased goods? The failure to address this issue - specifically income inequality - is the chief moral and economic failure of our time. The Boomers have failed our society utterly here, and it will be up to us to clean up their mess as we remove them from office. As an Obama Democrat, I'm hopeful that our generation can find bipartisan ways to work together here. I'm generally supportive of raising the federal minimum wage to ~$12/hr now, and linking it to chained CPI. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35125910) |
Date: January 10th, 2018 3:19 PM Author: Jet Elite Home Generalized Bond Seems watertight tbh (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35125916) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 3:24 PM Author: adventurous cream brunch (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35125953) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 3:26 PM Author: Infuriating Vermilion Step-uncle's House Masturbator Agree that Boomers are the enemy and need to be fired/voted out/forcefully retired (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35125964) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 3:26 PM Author: Gold swollen library I have no argument. That was perfect. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35125965) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 3:29 PM Author: Cyan Galvanic Resort I like it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35125978) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 3:32 PM Author: irradiated ratface Those programs are strained because people recklessly have children they can't afford, not because the minimum wage is too low to live on. Those Amazon dudes in OH getting food stamps are getting them because they have kids, many are probably already earning more than minimum, and many would still get them if minimum were twelve bucks.
Increases to the minimum tend to have near zero net economic effect, but the benefits reliably go to those with the easiest time getting jobs, and the losers are those who have the hardest time in finding jobs (those with bad/no work history, ex cons, working olds). Those who keep their jobs get a little bonus (and those who get benefits get less of them, so not much change), those who don't basically get thrown out into a worsened job market.
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:09 PM Author: Vigorous abnormal parlour regret while i mostly agree with the second paragraph and don't think the minimum wage should necessarily be raised, the first paragraph is ridiculous and even cruely stupid. poors SHOULD have families. the minimum wage is grotesquely insufficient for "life" even as a frugal single person and poor people know it. it's rational to try to form a family unit that can collectively survive and we should make it as easy as possible to do so successfully (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126290) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:10 PM Author: adventurous cream brunch so how should we/government go about doing that? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126304) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:36 PM Author: Vigorous abnormal parlour regret not a tax expert but seems pretty easy to reverse the worst of it. below like 400%+ of fpl you should get benefits not penalties the more wage earners you have filing jointly or something. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126547) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:11 PM Author: Metal provocative dingle berry Minimum wage is fine for a single person not on the coasts. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126310) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:19 PM Author: hateful hilarious hell trump supporter Perhaps the MW should be determined by locale, then? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126377) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:23 PM Author: Metal provocative dingle berry I’d prefer that to the feds. Or better yet, let employers decide! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126410) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:29 PM Author: violent salmon ladyboy it already is, to an extent. CA has a higher min wage. Within CA, SF has a higher min wage. I expect more cities, especially more expensive cities, to pass similar laws. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126479) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:25 PM Author: irradiated ratface First of all, how dare you.
I didn't say poors shouldn't have families, did I? No, I said that poors relying on subsidies because they have more children than they could otherwise afford is a weak argument for raising the minimum wage.
"the minimum wage is grotesquely insufficient for "life" even as a frugal single person and poor people know it."
Bullshit, I was raised poor and lived much of my adult life earning less than full time minimum wage. You can easily live on minimum wage alone, without dependents. And we have subsidies for those dependents (because they actually need them.)
Also, fyi, damn near everyone who earns minimum wage eventually earns more, usually much more. Like half of minimum wagemos at any moment are <23, ie they're working some shit job early in their career, and were often lucky to have found a job at all. Increasing it means employers will be even pickier about giving people a shot with entry level positions. |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 3:54 PM Author: Metal provocative dingle berry Higher wages for people who don’t produce the hourly value of that wage will lead to fewer people employed and moar on welfare hth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126187) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:14 PM Author: Bateful Erotic Menage not a problem in the US in particular. the current minimum wage could probably double without much economic effect at all, except that minimum-wage workers tend to have a much higher propensity to spend and to spend locally and impulsively, which would probably benefit local businesses in the areas in which they live.
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:15 PM Author: Supple flickering hall chad Why are you assuming that people who work in an amazon warehouse aren't worth $12/hour? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126351) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:23 PM Author: Buck-toothed Azure Field Because if people will do just a good of job for $10 then by definition they aren't worth $12 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126409) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:25 PM Author: Metal provocative dingle berry Haven’t you ever had a shitjerb? It’s teenagers who fuck off, dumbs, and junkies. Anyone who consistently shows up sober and works hard has opportunities to move up. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126433) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 3:56 PM Author: idiotic shimmering fortuitous meteor almost nobody engaging in these arguments ever actually gives quantitative estimates of just how many jobs will be lost/how much prices will rise in response, and you really need to do that to refute whatever libertarian blather about free markets will come up as a counterargument (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126202) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:12 PM Author: Metal provocative dingle berry (Statist who KNOWS the right wage for dumbs) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126316) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:14 PM Author: concupiscible marketing idea they bring in welfaremos by the truckload, fuck libs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126343) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:18 PM Author: hateful hilarious hell trump supporter Less workers, more automation, layoffs, something like that.
If you're looking for an ironclad argument on the minimum wage, you're going to have a bad time. The Heritage Foundation is never not pumping out studies saying they kill american jobs, Brookings/CAP is never not shilling for higher minimum wages. Honest, unbiased looks at MW policy are totally mixed. |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:20 PM Author: Buck-toothed Azure Field Simple: if we as a society have decided that citizens are entitled to a certain standard of living, this should be paid for by the govt, not by companies.
Not to mention that minimum wages have negative affects on tons of poors (sufficiently described previously ITT) and this will get worse as automation increases.
Why didn't he address automation or offshoring? |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:23 PM Author: Glittery cowardly rehab (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126413) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:26 PM Author: Bateful Erotic Menage that's more a question of monetary flows than public vs. private. ie, how much money is flowing around the corporate sector vs. elsewhere? after all, the original justification for corporate charters included language about "advancing social good," and corporations/companies are ultimately legal creatures of the state to begin with. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126453) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:27 PM Author: Buck-toothed Azure Field ljl stfu shitlib. Yes yes companies didn't build that and any taxes they don't pay are a gift from the gov't.
You either take money from shareholders and distort the labor market and harm tons of poors or you just tax the middle class and rich broadly and don't cause all kinds of inefficiencies.
Libs just like blaming corporations for everything. |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:31 PM Author: Bateful Erotic Menage read the standards even under delaware law for incorporation. in theory, the corporate charter can be revoked for all kinds of things. we only tend to forget that because corporations are powerful enough to control the government to a large extent, but at the institutional level, corporations don't even exist outside the context of a state, because ultimately they are legal creations. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126496) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:36 PM Author: Buck-toothed Azure Field There is a difference between being a legally organized entity and having a duty to support the state (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126550) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:44 PM Author: Onyx Nubile Kitchen yah dood socialism worked so well in soviet union, india, venezuela and cuba. turning corporations into social welfare organizations will only end well
how the fuck can u double down so much on failed ideas? |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:49 PM Author: Bateful Erotic Menage would you rather live in commie cuba, or nearby capitalist haiti, whose nominal minimum wage of $3/day is rarely even enforced, and where you can still purchase domestic slaves on the open market? be honest. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126652) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:53 PM Author: Onyx Nubile Kitchen the difference between cuba and haiti is not due to the socialism vs capitalism. by this logic would you live in communist cubs or capitalist USA? u sound like a 7 year old with this logic
every country that actually tried what you suggested (soviets, india, iran, cuba, venezuela) got pwned and had to change to a market based economy |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:27 PM Author: Metal provocative dingle berry Libs decided people deserve a certain standard of living but they want someone else to pay for it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126457) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:26 PM Author: Metal provocative dingle berry How’s it working out in Seattle?? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126441) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:29 PM Author: Bateful Erotic Menage pretty damn good in terms of unemployment rate/median incomes/etc.
be honest - would you rather live in high-minimum-wage seattle, or a federal minimum wage city like st. louis, with the highest murder rate in america? |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:31 PM Author: Buck-toothed Azure Field (causation masterman) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126491) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:33 PM Author: wonderful deep depressive seems like there is an X factor missing in your hypo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126517) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:33 PM Author: adventurous cream brunch lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126522) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:46 PM Author: Laughsome Smoky Half-breed Plaza the malcolm x factor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126631) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:38 PM Author: Onyx Nubile Kitchen hey you DISHONEST fuck. its hurting ppl and the only ppl who are doing better are shitlibs who want to virtue signal
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/uw-study-finds-seattles-minimum-wage-is-costing-jobs/ |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:47 PM Author: Bateful Erotic Menage then it should be easy for you to cite lots of examples of cities with the federal minimum wage that are doing better than seattle across a wide range of social metrics, from crime to unemployment to wealth. let's have them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126638) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:55 PM Author: Onyx Nubile Kitchen seattle is doing well because of tech boom. your dumb logic fails because you are associating seattle's achievements to minimum wage when it has nothing to do with minimum wage. seattle has been high performing city for several years now long before they increased the minimum wage
so please explain how you are linking seattle's success story to mandatory minimum wage? it has been thriving economically and has been having low crime rates for YEARS
since you are advocating for minimum wage please link me to a study that shows that minimum wage helps poor workers. even UW found it not to be true |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:39 PM Author: Onyx Nubile Kitchen lmao (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126566) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 5:09 PM Author: Metal provocative dingle berry Lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855301&forum_id=2#35126811) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:35 PM Author: Onyx Nubile Kitchen Just like all lib positions this is something that wont work in reality. With raising minimum wage on the west coast restaurants are simply cutting jobs to maintain the profit margin. at the end of the day it all comes down to ROI. if we raise wages to an extent that ppl dont need food stamps it will only mean severe job losses as companies cut jobs to maintain profit margin and those guys on food stamps will be now getting unemployment also
Red Robin cans bus boys: https://nypost.com/2018/01/08/red-robin-will-offset-minimum-wage-hikes-by-canning-busboys/
UW study that was funded by seattle city council completely pwned shitlibs on this:
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/uw-study-finds-seattles-minimum-wage-is-costing-jobs/ |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:51 PM Author: racy ruby bbw gunner Amazon seems like the worst company of all to try to force a wage floor upon. Seems like they'd happily just take an ax to their workforce and ramp up automation instead of boosting wages
Airhead white che guevaras are going to cost poor minorities their jobs because they never bothered to take econ in college |