\
  The most prestigious law school admissions discussion board in the world.
BackRefresh Options Favorite

Working toward a world where that Grace and Aziz date no longer happens

I’m raising two sons and a daughter, and I don’t want any of...
Orange talented old irish cottage partner
  01/18/18
We had that world. In 1955. The boomer sexual revolution and...
translucent spectacular tank
  01/18/18
...
Useless sweet tailpipe wrinkle
  01/18/18
Got to give them credit for burning down the house and succe...
Mahogany Concupiscible Bawdyhouse Mexican
  01/18/18
...
godawful provocative nibblets candlestick maker
  01/18/18
...
Beady-eyed lodge
  01/18/18
...
Useless sweet tailpipe wrinkle
  01/18/18
...
marvelous sable messiness
  01/18/18
...
Electric Hairless Field
  01/18/18
...
soul-stirring spot place of business
  01/18/18
...
Purple buck-toothed address genital piercing
  01/18/18
...
Khaki up-to-no-good windowlicker
  01/18/18
...
Orange talented old irish cottage partner
  01/19/18
...
Bipolar brethren
  01/19/18
Pic of author pls
Mahogany Concupiscible Bawdyhouse Mexican
  01/18/18
completely insane to argue that girls are "strongly soc...
godawful provocative nibblets candlestick maker
  01/18/18
holy scripture of the religion of victimhood
marvelous sable messiness
  01/18/18
"Author Peggy Orenstein is brilliant on this. Her 2016 ...
cracking step-uncle's house dopamine
  01/18/18
...
Hideous garrison
  01/18/18
...
Mahogany Concupiscible Bawdyhouse Mexican
  01/19/18
...
Orange talented old irish cottage partner
  01/19/18


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:20 PM
Author: Orange talented old irish cottage partner

I’m raising two sons and a daughter, and I don’t want any of them to have a date like Aziz and “Grace” had.

I don’t want my boys to define a good date as, “Come hell or high water, I climaxed.”

I don’t want my girl feeling such a profound need to be pleasing — and safe — that she stifles her own voice in favor of too easily dismissed nonverbal cues and an “I’d rather not hate you.”

I don’t want to live in a culture that gave way to the night described in that now-infamous article. But I’m all too aware that we do.

“Most of my discomfort was expressed in me pulling away and mumbling,” the 23-year-old known as Grace told the website babe in the article, “I went on a date with Aziz Ansari. It turned into the worst night of my life,” published Saturday. “I know that my hand stopped moving at some points. I stopped moving my lips and turned cold. … I know I was physically giving off cues that I wasn’t interested. I don’t think that was noticed at all, or if it was, it was ignored.”

I’ve been on that date. Most women I know have.

We’re at loggerheads over whether her story deserved to be aired, whether it belongs in #MeToo, whether it was a lousy date or a sexual assault or something in between.

What we should be talking about is how to make sure fewer of those dates take place — now, and years from now.

If any good is to come from the Aziz/Grace saga, we need to get comfortable hanging out in the gray area for a while — the area between “lousy date” and “sexual assault.”

But how?

First, by acknowledging some truths. I’ve read a lot of them in the days since Grace took her story public, launching a discussion about consent, gender and #MeToo that might just move the needle, if we can set aside our need for clear-cut villains and victims.

One:

“Girls are raised with a contradictory set of expectations: be kind and acquiescent, but also be the brakes on male sexual desire,” Jill Filipovic writes in The Guardian, in the best piece I’ve read thus far on the topic. “We are taught to reflexively say yes except for when we’re supposed to definitively say no.”

Be game, that is, but not so game that you veer into slut territory.

Two:

“In a perfect world,” Filipovic writes, “Grace would have walked out the door. But women are so strongly socialized to put others’ comfort ahead of our own that even when we are furiously uncomfortable, it feels paralyzing to assert ourselves.”

We stigmatize women for being too assertive. We punish them for not being assertive enough.

Three:

“The idea that men have more sexual desire than women still goes unchallenged,” Anna North writes in Vox, “leading too many men to believe that a lukewarm yes is all they’re ever going to get, because women don’t like sex that much anyway.”

Author Peggy Orenstein is brilliant on this. Her 2016 book, “Girls & Sex: Navigating the Complicated New Landscape” (Harper), encourages parents to talk to daughters about acknowledging and prioritizing their own desire and pleasure so sex doesn’t take the shape of something boys and men do, and girls and women have done to them.

We need to acknowledge that we’re still socializing boys and girls with gender expectations that are decades old, even though dates look nothing like they used to.

We need to talk up enthusiastic consent — when both parties are equally eager, when no one’s wearing anyone down, when no one’s being worn down. We need to empower our girls and boys, both, to say, “Oh, hell yes” as well as, “Oh, hell no.” We need to help our girls and our boys listen for both.

This training is going to have to take place, largely, at home.

We’re nowhere near universal, comprehensive sex education in our schools. We’re up to our eyeballs in entertainment and media shaped mostly by the folks who expound and exploit the very messages we need to disrupt.

It’s daunting. We’re haunted and embarrassed, many of us, by our own experiences that fall somewhere between “lousy date” and “sexual assault.”

We’re shaped, still, by the messages we grew up surrounded by. In “Girls & Sex,” Orenstein interviewed dozens of young women ages 15 to 20 about intimacy.

"Usually the opposite of a negative is a positive,” one young woman told her. “But when you're talking about girls and sex, the opposite of slut is prude, both of which are negative. So what are you supposed to do?"

Blow it all up. Start over. Acknowledge, once and for all, that this way isn’t working. This way that leads to Grace and Aziz and far, far too many women and men nodding in recognition at their story, even as they recoil at its reception.

We can do better. Let’s get going.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183330)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:23 PM
Author: translucent spectacular tank

We had that world. In 1955. The boomer sexual revolution and feminism destroyed that world. Reap the whirlwind and such.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183355)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:25 PM
Author: Useless sweet tailpipe wrinkle



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183365)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:25 PM
Author: Mahogany Concupiscible Bawdyhouse Mexican

Got to give them credit for burning down the house and successfully blaming the fire department

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183367)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:26 PM
Author: godawful provocative nibblets candlestick maker



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183371)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:26 PM
Author: Beady-eyed lodge



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183374)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:26 PM
Author: Useless sweet tailpipe wrinkle



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183376)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:28 PM
Author: marvelous sable messiness



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183389)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:36 PM
Author: Electric Hairless Field



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183426)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:37 PM
Author: soul-stirring spot place of business



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183434)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:56 PM
Author: Purple buck-toothed address genital piercing



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183569)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:57 PM
Author: Khaki up-to-no-good windowlicker



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183575)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 19th, 2018 12:24 AM
Author: Orange talented old irish cottage partner



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35187298)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 19th, 2018 10:53 PM
Author: Bipolar brethren



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35193688)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:24 PM
Author: Mahogany Concupiscible Bawdyhouse Mexican

Pic of author pls

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183360)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:25 PM
Author: godawful provocative nibblets candlestick maker

completely insane to argue that girls are "strongly socialized" to give blow jobs to random C list celebrities they've met once.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183369)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:30 PM
Author: marvelous sable messiness

holy scripture of the religion of victimhood

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183394)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:44 PM
Author: cracking step-uncle's house dopamine

"Author Peggy Orenstein is brilliant on this. Her 2016 book, “Girls & Sex: Navigating the Complicated New Landscape” (Harper), encourages parents to talk to daughters about acknowledging and prioritizing their own desire and pleasure so sex doesn’t take the shape of something boys and men do, and girls and women have done to them."

Except it is. The girl literally lies there and has her innermost core stretched and split open by the man's pulsing member, lies there while he literally pounds it into her until it gushes a gooey, sticky fluid, and then meekly runs to the bathroom to drain into the toilet. Just Lmao @ women and their lack of sexual agency.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183464)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:53 PM
Author: Hideous garrison



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183536)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 19th, 2018 2:07 AM
Author: Mahogany Concupiscible Bawdyhouse Mexican



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35187607)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 19th, 2018 10:44 PM
Author: Orange talented old irish cottage partner



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35193634)