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full blown war with China starts right now. who wins?

...
180 Stage
  01/20/18
US, but both sides hurt a lot
Fluffy Lodge Legend
  01/20/18
Explain how the US manages to project sufficient power over ...
abusive pozpig library
  01/20/18
from japan and phillipines.
Grizzly bat-shit-crazy potus fat ankles
  01/20/18
...
180 Stage
  01/20/18
...
Fluffy Lodge Legend
  01/20/18
What made Japan and the Philippines decide that this week wa...
abusive pozpig library
  01/20/18
they have no choice. half of japan lives here and 90% of phi...
Grizzly bat-shit-crazy potus fat ankles
  01/20/18
Just do be obliterated from existence because of remittance ...
abusive pozpig library
  01/20/18
we have bases all over there and then everyone would post up...
Grizzly bat-shit-crazy potus fat ankles
  01/20/18
LJL, no. If a war was really brewing the US would quickly fi...
abusive pozpig library
  01/20/18
we're using bases currently; this isn't sealed up shit from ...
Grizzly bat-shit-crazy potus fat ankles
  01/20/18
Incirlik isnt "sealed up shit from 20 years beforehand....
abusive pozpig library
  01/20/18
"utter annihilation" Right. Because that happen...
spectacular chad
  01/20/18
Russians aren't "obliterating" anyone. Be serious....
spectacular chad
  01/20/18
lol shut the fuck up faggot literally no one gives a fuck ab...
indigo ladyboy
  01/21/18
without resorting to copy pasting from Janes Defense Weekly,...
Fluffy Lodge Legend
  01/20/18
DF-41 the 3 American carrier battle groups the US is actuall...
abusive pozpig library
  01/20/18
Power is protected on the tip of ICBMs which pulverize china...
stimulating startling den nibblets
  01/21/18
US is not opening the war with 50 nuclear strikes
Sick Coral Office
  01/21/18
china hasn't fought a war since the nips blew their assholes...
Grizzly bat-shit-crazy potus fat ankles
  01/20/18
And? The entire Chinese army is built from floor to ceiling ...
abusive pozpig library
  01/20/18
Why, exactly? So China can slowly take over all of eastern R...
spectacular chad
  01/20/18
Eastern Russia is an impenetrable swamp where tanks sink lik...
abusive pozpig library
  01/20/18
They are taking it over by moving in the population anyway, ...
spectacular chad
  01/20/18
They are not because its impenetrable and any humans making ...
abusive pozpig library
  01/20/18
the United States has the most battle-tested and combat-read...
Cracking shrine queen of the night
  01/20/18
Yep, and it just managed to lose every war since Korea.
abusive pozpig library
  01/20/18
Not "lose" militarily. Dumb wars strategically. O...
spectacular chad
  01/20/18
I do believe Putin showed in Syria that the US is not alone ...
abusive pozpig library
  01/20/18
The why is essential, actually. The USSR had a much stronger...
spectacular chad
  01/20/18
One traitor named Gorbachev.
abusive pozpig library
  01/21/18
The reason matters a lot. You can't seriously think otherwis...
nudist immigrant rehab
  01/21/18
the USA is so good at war that it had to play the game on ex...
Cracking shrine queen of the night
  01/21/18
somehow, cohen benefits
carmine confused church building
  01/20/18
lol
soul-stirring wagecucks
  01/20/18
literally
Grizzly bat-shit-crazy potus fat ankles
  01/20/18
Any discussion here would at best be like WWI generals talki...
Fragrant space
  01/20/18
Not seeing a problem. Once you're all dead the Soviets can j...
abusive pozpig library
  01/20/18
before any open conflict breaks out, both China and the US w...
Fragrant space
  01/20/18
the chinese rely on our our sats.
Grizzly bat-shit-crazy potus fat ankles
  01/20/18
For what exactly?
abusive pozpig library
  01/20/18
seeing shit, copying shit, trying to fix shit.
Grizzly bat-shit-crazy potus fat ankles
  01/20/18
None of this is true. Russia, China and the US have wholly i...
abusive pozpig library
  01/20/18
Every non military entity on Earth uses GPS in some capacity
exhilarant stead persian
  01/21/18
They can cut cable lines, detonate underwater nukes and caus...
Cordovan hairraiser school
  01/21/18
And although it wasn't quite full scale total warfare, the c...
Cordovan hairraiser school
  01/21/18
How is Russia's birth rate these days? Russia clearly found ...
spectacular chad
  01/20/18
No answer.
spectacular chad
  01/21/18
Morons ITT ignoring the obvious. The war would go nuclear si...
stimulating startling den nibblets
  01/21/18
Yeah surprised how badly all of the other answers are - the ...
poppy cerebral property
  01/21/18
Oh, fortuitous nuclear annihilation.
nudist immigrant rehab
  01/21/18
China's second strike capability is enough to deter the USA....
titillating dark idiot shitlib
  01/21/18
What second strike capability? Mobile icbm launchers? Doubt ...
stimulating startling den nibblets
  01/21/18
dependent on how it starts. asking who wins us v. china is l...
Flatulent corner quadroon
  01/21/18
correct
Exciting Silver Patrolman Incel
  01/21/18
Why does ARE Reptile always get so giddy in military threads...
Sienna Nighttime Senate Hissy Fit
  01/21/18
Literally no one in the Chinese "military" has bee...
Disturbing smoky depressive faggotry
  01/21/18
One thing is certain, they would try to pee pee in our Coke....
flushed electric range
  01/21/18


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:14 PM
Author: 180 Stage



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200564)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:16 PM
Author: Fluffy Lodge Legend

US, but both sides hurt a lot

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200573)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:17 PM
Author: abusive pozpig library

Explain how the US manages to project sufficient power over China to win.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200579)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:17 PM
Author: Grizzly bat-shit-crazy potus fat ankles

from japan and phillipines.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200580)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:17 PM
Author: 180 Stage



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200581)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:18 PM
Author: Fluffy Lodge Legend



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200583)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:23 PM
Author: abusive pozpig library

What made Japan and the Philippines decide that this week was a good week to stop existing exactly?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200610)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:32 PM
Author: Grizzly bat-shit-crazy potus fat ankles

they have no choice. half of japan lives here and 90% of phillipines gets checks from family here; hell all the catholic churches there are neighborhood scams funded by dumb/too busy family over here.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200668)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:35 PM
Author: abusive pozpig library

Just do be obliterated from existence because of remittance payments. Yeah, Duterte aint that crazy (and he hates the US) and the Japanese are too chicken shit to even face down N.Korea let alone China.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200698)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:37 PM
Author: Grizzly bat-shit-crazy potus fat ankles

we have bases all over there and then everyone would post up in japan, s korea, and phill, plus austrailia will help. and russia will help because they think they can control or live with americans but nobody in the world would want to mix and live with china if given a choice.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200711)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:40 PM
Author: abusive pozpig library

LJL, no. If a war was really brewing the US would quickly find how worthless most of those bases are just like it did in Turkey when the Turks quickly killed OPs out of Incirlik when they felt like it. Truly useful foreign bases require a promise to massacre the fuck out of the locals if they get in the way.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200739)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:41 PM
Author: Grizzly bat-shit-crazy potus fat ankles

we're using bases currently; this isn't sealed up shit from 20 years beforehand.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200743)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:46 PM
Author: abusive pozpig library

Incirlik isnt "sealed up shit from 20 years beforehand." It is the largest US base in the region but when Turkey was pissed off it shut down all US flights into and out of it in about 1 minutes time and this dynamic applies to basically all US foreign bases. Your using them for BS ops and show the flag nonsense. The locals have the capability to shut down those bases and they would if they thought US ops risked their utter annihilation. US bases are not like Soviet bases in Eastern Europe which were built expressly around the idea of murdering the fuck out of the locals if they got in the way

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200776)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:57 PM
Author: spectacular chad

"utter annihilation"

Right. Because that happens all the time, countries being annihilated.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200828)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:46 PM
Author: spectacular chad

Russians aren't "obliterating" anyone. Be serious. Putin is trying to incrementally strengthen his position regionally because NATO probably went too far in the 1990s. That's far different.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200772)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2018 2:30 AM
Author: indigo ladyboy

lol shut the fuck up faggot literally no one gives a fuck about your cold war fantasies

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35201314)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:18 PM
Author: Fluffy Lodge Legend

without resorting to copy pasting from Janes Defense Weekly, explain how China does

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200582)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:21 PM
Author: abusive pozpig library

DF-41 the 3 American carrier battle groups the US is actually capable of deploying. War over.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200602)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2018 12:15 AM
Author: stimulating startling den nibblets

Power is protected on the tip of ICBMs which pulverize china’s biggest 50 cities within 30 minutes. The chinks take out LA and San Fran in the process. war over.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200905)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2018 11:04 PM
Author: Sick Coral Office

US is not opening the war with 50 nuclear strikes

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35207011)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:16 PM
Author: Grizzly bat-shit-crazy potus fat ankles

china hasn't fought a war since the nips blew their assholes out in ww2.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200575)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:21 PM
Author: abusive pozpig library

And? The entire Chinese army is built from floor to ceiling by the Russians who have fought wars a plenty. Read up on Peace Mission 2005. The Chicoms sent troops to Russia for war gaming. The Chicoms were flying their attack helos too high. The Russkies explained to them that they were deploying their entire helicopter force wrong. The Russkies then trained up the entire PLA on air mobile assault over a 2 year period. They did this pretty much across every branch and specialty. Since that time Peace Mission has become a bi-annual tradition and has been augmented with additional now pretty much quarterly exchanges. The Russkies and Chicoms even share a common airspace command center. And they maintain a joint SARSAT constellation. It aint NATO but only because it's more efficient than TTT cash wasting NATO.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200598)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:29 PM
Author: spectacular chad

Why, exactly? So China can slowly take over all of eastern Russia?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200646)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:32 PM
Author: abusive pozpig library

Eastern Russia is an impenetrable swamp where tanks sink like stones. Aint no threat of any of that.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200675)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:35 PM
Author: spectacular chad

They are taking it over by moving in the population anyway, no bullets needed



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200700)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:38 PM
Author: abusive pozpig library

They are not because its impenetrable and any humans making the crossing die. There is basically zero Chinese migration to Russia except like 50,000-60,000 temp workers in Vladivostok almost none of whom end up staying.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200720)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:29 PM
Author: Cracking shrine queen of the night

the United States has the most battle-tested and combat-ready military in the world.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200653)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:33 PM
Author: abusive pozpig library

Yep, and it just managed to lose every war since Korea.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200681)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:39 PM
Author: spectacular chad

Not "lose" militarily. Dumb wars strategically. Only the USA can fight half-way around the world.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200727)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:42 PM
Author: abusive pozpig library

I do believe Putin showed in Syria that the US is not alone in being able to fight halfway around the world though in the Russian context with Russia sitting on a dozen time zones there is no point that is actually halfway around the world from holy mother Russia. And the why of your losing is irrelevant to the fact that you keep losing.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200748)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:48 PM
Author: spectacular chad

The why is essential, actually. The USSR had a much stronger military than western europe during the cold war. Why didn't the USSR come to dominate all of europe?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200786)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2018 12:00 AM
Author: abusive pozpig library

One traitor named Gorbachev.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200836)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2018 3:27 AM
Author: nudist immigrant rehab

The reason matters a lot. You can't seriously think otherwise. If you lose because you're restraining yourself for political reasons that don't apply later, you'd be foolish to cite the prior self-imposed loss as predictive of the outcome subsequent war.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35201427)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2018 1:48 AM
Author: Cracking shrine queen of the night

the USA is so good at war that it had to play the game on expert mode by creating absurd rules of engagement etc.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35201219)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:20 PM
Author: carmine confused church building

somehow, cohen benefits

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200597)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:21 PM
Author: soul-stirring wagecucks

lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200599)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:32 PM
Author: Grizzly bat-shit-crazy potus fat ankles

literally

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200673)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:25 PM
Author: Fragrant space

Any discussion here would at best be like WWI generals talking WWII strategy. There would be no winners in a full scale war between China and the US.

China would shoot down and disable our satellites and we'd do the same to them. We'd mutually knock out each other's power grid and infrastructure through sleeper viruses. China would dump its treasuries and dollar holdings to cause maximum chaos for our markets. Both societies would be plunged into absolute chaos.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200623)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:26 PM
Author: abusive pozpig library

Not seeing a problem. Once you're all dead the Soviets can just PWN, PWN, PWN.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200632)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:34 PM
Author: Fragrant space

before any open conflict breaks out, both China and the US will have fully anticipated what Russia would do as well. Russia would probably align with China and the US would treat them just the same. I'm confident that Russia already has embedded viruses in the US infrastructure operating systems and could shut down our grid if they wanted. We could probably do the same to them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200688)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:33 PM
Author: Grizzly bat-shit-crazy potus fat ankles

the chinese rely on our our sats.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200678)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:33 PM
Author: abusive pozpig library

For what exactly?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200684)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:34 PM
Author: Grizzly bat-shit-crazy potus fat ankles

seeing shit, copying shit, trying to fix shit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200695)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:36 PM
Author: abusive pozpig library

None of this is true. Russia, China and the US have wholly independent sat constellations and any Chicom corp renting Yankee sats would see its CEO strung up by the balls. And for that matter even the US is protectionist as all fuck in this area. The US government wont rent your sat if you launched it outside of the US now.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200702)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2018 1:45 AM
Author: exhilarant stead persian

Every non military entity on Earth uses GPS in some capacity

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35201204)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2018 2:40 AM
Author: Cordovan hairraiser school

They can cut cable lines, detonate underwater nukes and cause massive tsunamis, cut off manufacturing exports including some military parts (we could recover with out homegrown manufacture but it wouldn't happen overnight and we'd be hurting for a few years), they have the edge in some areas of cyber warfare, quickly gaining the edge in next gen warfare such as hypersonic missiles that can take out aircraft carriers, etc

There.would.be.no.winners.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35201331)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2018 3:15 AM
Author: Cordovan hairraiser school

And although it wasn't quite full scale total warfare, the chinese won vs the US in the 2nd half of the Korean War, as well defeat both France and US via their proxy Vietnam

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35201411)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2018 11:52 PM
Author: spectacular chad

How is Russia's birth rate these days? Russia clearly found religion in recent years, which is probably good for more children. Correct?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200803)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2018 12:15 AM
Author: spectacular chad

No answer.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200904)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2018 12:18 AM
Author: stimulating startling den nibblets

Morons ITT ignoring the obvious. The war would go nuclear since the US cannot and would have no desire to get bogged down in a land war versus a “billion man army.” Our nuclear arsenal is an order of magnitude better than the chinks’.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200928)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2018 2:40 AM
Author: poppy cerebral property

Yeah surprised how badly all of the other answers are - the OP said "full blown war". That said China has more than enough nukes to nuke the US to oblivion as well. Result? Tie with both countries smouldering nuked ruins.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35201332)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2018 6:37 PM
Author: nudist immigrant rehab

Oh, fortuitous nuclear annihilation.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35204851)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2018 6:42 PM
Author: titillating dark idiot shitlib

China's second strike capability is enough to deter the USA. Sure, US could wipe China off the map, but China could wipe out 30% of our population and 75% of our GDP.

The more realistic scenario is that the US sinks China's TTT navy and shoots down their TTT airforce. Then US blockades China and shoots cruise missiles are key targets. China's economy would be crippled.

Any US invasion would fail spectacularly, but the USA pwns on neutral territory and uber pwns on the blue water ocean.

If the USA had to invade China, they'd have start starving them out and then wipe them out like rodents. Do shit like wipe out cities rather than fight street by street. I don't see any reason why anyone would do that though. It wouldn't be worth it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35204875)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2018 11:02 PM
Author: stimulating startling den nibblets

What second strike capability? Mobile icbm launchers? Doubt the chinks would be coordinated enough to pull of an effective second strike.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35206998)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2018 12:19 AM
Author: Flatulent corner quadroon

dependent on how it starts. asking who wins us v. china is like asking "who wins, UK v germanY??". answer depends on who controls european production, and how the US/USSR are feeling.

if a full blown war develops where the primary view of the developed war is that china started it, china loses. china is nowhere close to self-sufficient and if it gets shut off from even a few major trading partners it goes to hell a lot faster than america would in a similar situation.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35200931)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2018 6:38 AM
Author: Exciting Silver Patrolman Incel

correct

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35201627)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2018 1:47 AM
Author: Sienna Nighttime Senate Hissy Fit

Why does ARE Reptile always get so giddy in military threads? Russia's only aircraft carrier is kept afloat by a tug boat. The US military is the most technologically advanced and well funded in the world by orders of magnitude.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35201217)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2018 1:49 AM
Author: Disturbing smoky depressive faggotry

Literally no one in the Chinese "military" has been in combat before. Military shit is unreliable to begin with, but at least America is constantly using ours. Chinese shit -- built by the Chinese btw -- has literally never been used. Yeah they have a billion "people" -- 5'4" illiterate bugmen who eat garbage. LOL their "economy" is based on stealing shit and sending plastic baubles to America, they would be in a crippling depression on day one and the politburo would be pulled out of their palaces by the bugmen and cooked into fried rice

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35201225)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2018 11:08 PM
Author: flushed electric range

One thing is certain, they would try to pee pee in our Coke.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3866036&forum_id=2#35207027)