ITT: if law school was a good deal for you
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Date: February 27th, 2018 11:33 AM Author: Concupiscible Therapy
1. why you think it was a good deal (e.g. 400k 9-5 in house, 900k jr equity partner, etc.)
2. whether it would be a good deal at 300k sticker (really curious if anyone thinks yes)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35498064) |
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Date: February 27th, 2018 11:50 AM Author: Coiffed orchestra pit marketing idea
My sleep is fucked up
I can't read for pleasure anymore
My life amounts to six minute billing increments with no change in sight.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35498188) |
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Date: February 27th, 2018 4:10 PM Author: Coiffed orchestra pit marketing idea
broken computer? that will be 2 weeks.
want a promotion? we'll see who dies or retires or leaves.
oh and lets have a team meeting at 9 am, 11:30 am, 2 pm and 4 pm.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35500134) |
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Date: February 27th, 2018 11:55 PM Author: Drunken Apoplectic Messiness
Lol, I know you’re just here to snark, but believe it or not, I don’t always talk about myself. I fully acknowledge my path is based on luck and have no advice on how to replicate it other than have no shame and apply to absolutely everything even if you’re not qualified.
I was talking about my boss who was in midlaw and took a big risk and massive pay cut to become the GC of this no name fund. Since earl does RE, it’s not out of the question that he may at some point be approached by a smaller client with this sort of opportunity and I would encourage him to consider it. And since we are friends irl, it’s not like I haven’t talked to him seriously about career path before.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35503415)
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Date: February 28th, 2018 12:00 AM Author: Nofapping heaven karate
"broken computer? that will be 2 weeks."
BS. If my computer broke I'd hand it in tomorrow and get a new one handed to me. I have a nice Surface Pro too.
"want a promotion? we'll see who dies or retires or leaves."
Yes, but you can also get a promotion via a new job. And in the meantime you don't hate your life.
"oh and lets have a team meeting at 9 am, 11:30 am, 2 pm and 4 pm."
Team meetings aren't that common but meetings in general are ridiculous. But I notice a lot of this depends on your practice area. Our RE people aren't that awful with meetings.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35503459) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 11:46 AM Author: Nofapping heaven karate
1. I guess, but only because I ended up with a STEM grad degree. I may well have done just as well without the JD and just banking on the STEM M.S., or marginally worse. Long term, I still think the JD will pay off for me but only in light of my answer to 2.
2. No way. I had a $15k/year scholarship back when it was way cheaper too. Going for $300k is just stupid.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35498149) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 11:46 AM Author: Crimson glittery indirect expression
i certainly would have much less money if i didnt go to law school
but for personal satisfaction, ljl
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35498151) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 11:49 AM Author: sickened queen of the night cruise ship
Went to TTT, got gs-11 gig out of LS, copped IBR
1. It's the easiest job ever. I work maybe 5 real hours a week. Working the deli counter in hs was more stressful. I don't have any deadlines until the end of March.
2. Sure. Id be paying the same amount regardless of the loan balance
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35498179) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 11:55 AM Author: Umber massive brethren
1. why you think it was a good deal (e.g. 400k 9-5 in house, 900k jr equity partner, etc.)
No, literally about to go solo and make like $20k/year, 9 years out of school. I know some stuff pretty well but would get my ass handed to me if I tried to do complex litigation on my own. Had shit luck with recruiters, been out of school too long for most jobs to consider me without having like at least a $150-200k book of business. Never felt so fucked as I do right now about the future.
2. whether it would be a good deal at 300k sticker (really curious if anyone thinks yes)
No. Go to the cheapest best state school you can. $300k is a lot of money.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35498235) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 12:07 PM Author: Drunken Apoplectic Messiness
1 obviously yes but it had nothing to do with going to a good law school or law school at all. I could’ve gotten just as lucky with just my BA, even though a non legal role at my company pays less.
2 obviously no. Looking at the outcomes of my law school class now 10+ years out, you have maybe 15-20% who are insanely successful, but half of those people aren’t even lawyers. They are in finance or tech or do other random things. The super successful lawyers are either still poor but have prestige like very high up in justice dept or they have a lot of money like partner at v5, but of course, that means you’re crazy enough to make equity partner there. Median income is prob around $200-$250k. That’s obviously considered successful in the grand scheme of things, but these are smart people. You think they couldn’t get to $200-$250k by 35 without law school if they wanted? And law school was cheaper back then.
Also, of course the people who went into litigation had a lot worse outcomes than others who didn’t.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35498314)
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Date: February 27th, 2018 12:53 PM Author: Drunken Apoplectic Messiness
There are a few people who have sold their startups or do VC work in SV. I have no idea what they sold their companies for or what sort of money they make investing, but millions I assume. Richest wagecucks definitely make millions, $1-2m range. They are MD types at KKR etc. There are some people working at hedge funds and boutique banking/PE places and I guess they make anywhere from $500-$1.5m. Hard to tell with those smaller places. There’s an orthopaedic surgeon too. How much does he make? Like $750k? I don’t know about doc salaries. Richest people are all non lawyers.
Richest lawyer is a cravath NY partner. I can see why he made partner there. Hes followed by a Gibson partner. I don’t know if Gibson has an income partner tier or not, so I don’t really know if he’s a real partner or not. Those are the only 2 biglaw partner outcomes. Plenty of in house people at places like google, fb, Amazon, uber etc. many at fortune 100 companies, corporate counsel at like JPM etc. those are all corporate or IP people though.
Average litmo outcome is counsel or “partner” at a place like troutman sanders or Duane Morris or any of those other random firms with tons of offices and shitty work or a random boutique in a high COL city. Also plenty in state and fed govt. These are all former V20 associates. That was the outcome I was headed toward.
Basically, if you want to make millions, don’t go to law school!
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35498681) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 12:09 PM Author: duck-like rusted dilemma mother
yes, a very very "good deal" in that I make lots of money, but I certainly wouldn't do it again, given that you only get one life, and I'm wasting mine being a lawyer.
Still would have been a good deal if I paid double (i.e. $300k).
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35498330) |
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Date: February 27th, 2018 12:34 PM Author: duck-like rusted dilemma mother
not really. Had about $600k of my own business last year, plus a few of my clients got into major litigation, which I got origination on. Then billed about 1900 hours, 1100 was to a client who isn't mine, but who considers me a crucial part of their team. Then I'm on the management committee which pays another $65k.
Key to being a successful transactional lawyer is to add value like you are another business person for your client. I hardly ever focus on legal issues other than the ones that could really fuk my client....otherwise I spend 90% of my time on language and concepts that will mean major $.
So many lawyers don't get that and that's why they don't have any of their own clients and are more or less fungible to other people's clients.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35498555) |
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Date: February 27th, 2018 12:14 PM Author: Nofapping heaven karate
"yes, a very very "good deal" in that I make lots of money, but I certainly wouldn't do it again, given that you only get one life, and I'm wasting mine being a lawyer."
This is the answer that causes a lot of people to go to law school. They look at their lives and say "well, I do shit I hate every day for much less money, so law school seems not so bad." Honestly, it isn't a bad argument at all. The notion that you would have done something so much more meaningful absent law school is likely flame.
However, these days it isn't sound logic for other reasons.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35498373) |
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Date: February 27th, 2018 12:28 PM Author: Concupiscible Therapy
1. get a 170+ on LSAT
2. get a T6 offer (maaaaybe T14) with significant money so COA is <150
if so, go
if not, go to MBA
hth
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35498513) |
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Date: February 27th, 2018 2:13 PM Author: Nofapping heaven karate
Market too saturated!
Hey, maybe law school?
LOL...
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35499291) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 12:31 PM Author: Unhinged odious hall dingle berry
If you would have asked me one or 5 years out I would have said bad deal. Now probably a good deal. I definitely have a better job than I would’ve otherwise.
However, I would’ve taken money at a worse instead of going 200k in debt and killing myself to pay it off. So no, I couldn’t recommend sticker to anyone who is paying themselves.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35498536) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 12:35 PM Author: fiercely-loyal piazza hominid
1. Money-wise it was a good choice, but that’s about it
2. Would never recommend this
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35498568) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 12:35 PM Author: opaque self-centered state sex offender
1. No
2. No
Anyone who goes to law school is an absolute retard. Those that think they are special or particularly talented DESERVE to go so they can experience the crushing misery and ruin their lives. I have stopped discouraging special snowflakes IRL because I want them to ruin their lives and suffer.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35498572) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 12:54 PM Author: brass talking regret degenerate
1. Financially I’m way better off than any of the realistic alternatives.
2. lol, no way.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35498688) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 1:00 PM Author: spruce infuriating party of the first part
1. I got a full ride scholarship and graduated with minimal debt, I was able to save a lot working for other firms for many years, and now I am a solo that makes decent (though not fantastic) money for relatively low stress/hours.
2. Probably not.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35498737) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 1:47 PM Author: provocative chestnut striped hyena
Law school was easily and quantifiably the worst mistake of my life. I paid full sticker for a t14, found law school to be terribly unengaging, got depressed, and today don't even practice law. I gave up three years of my physical prime plus $150k and got situational depression in exchange. Thank god I managed to find decent non-legal employment and now have a career I like.
I recommend LS only to people who have had real world experience with legal practice (e.g., paralegaled in a big firm for a few years) and still think it sounds good. My biggest mistake was just waltzing straight into LS from college without doing any research about what law school or legal practice are like. I found out I hated law only after I was already enrolled.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35499147) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 2:10 PM Author: Primrose crusty background story place of business
1. Yes and no. I could have built my company without a law degree but it would have been much more difficult to get into this industry as an outsider without one. I made just north of $2mm cash in the last 3.5 years, and my property I retained over and above that continues to appreciate in value and generate passive income.
I borrowed a total of $40,000 for my entire law degree, and around the same for my undergrad. I serviced the debt for four years after exhausting forbearance options and ultimately paid it all off in a lump sum a few months ago, so that's about $150,000 paid all-in for both degrees plus interest. That's an excellent ROI if you buy into the premise that I wouldn't have been able to accomplish what I've accomplished so far without it.
2. Absolutely not. Interest will murder you and your odds of eventually getting out from under it are nil.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35499280) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 2:16 PM Author: Hideous thriller dragon dysfunction
1. Yes. Make good $ inhouse, but i think i was on a pretty successful track in my career prior to law school, so i always wonder what if.
2. Lolno
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35499312) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 2:20 PM Author: anal lascivious hairy legs
1. Yes. Full ride to a second tier night school. I made 70k per year for my day job through law school. Now I make 400k as a senior associate. Will never make partner but I think I’ll always be above my pre-law salary.
2. No. Pretty much the only reason law school was a good deal was that it was free
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35499342) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 3:05 PM Author: onyx twisted stage
*orders LSAT materials*
seems like it worked out for most who didnt pay a lot
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35499694) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 4:17 PM Author: Brindle juggernaut menage
Monetarily, absolutely yes. No way would I have this much $$$ if I hadn't gone to law school. That being said I hate the practice of law. Also, I am currently making $0 as a shitlawyer so we will see how long this holds.
At sticker, even the money wouldn't have made sense - I had a full ride, which made a huge difference.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35500167) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 4:42 PM Author: Soul-stirring house
Nah, I realized I hate working hard. The "professions" all require way too much hard work in practice.
If I could do over, I'd just gun for a fed gov jerb straight out of college doing whatever random shit and then essentially never work hard again
OR, I should have worked hard in something I actually care about, e.g., maybe become a veterinarian.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35500405)
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Date: February 27th, 2018 4:54 PM Author: beady-eyed translucent mood base
it was for me. i started out in shitlaw (fucked off at a T50 flagship state law school, but wrote on to law review). i eventually traded up to biglaw and made partner this year. making around 320k but should go up in the coming years by quite a lot from what i understand.
it would not have been a good deal at 300k, no.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35500500) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 10:11 PM Author: Jade shrine affirmative action
1. For me, yes. Total loans were $40K out of a TTTT with mostly a full ride. Went solo immediately. Made like $55K first year, and been averaging about $180K the last couple years, more this year. Legit work about 25-30 hours per week
2. No.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35502705) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 10:38 PM Author: Maroon slap-happy nowag hospital
Yes. It was a good deal for me.
1. $200k-$250k in-house + $30k-$50k in authorized side practice permitted to to be conducted from my office with use of office resources + $20k-$40k bonus + working on getting a $30k political board appointment that meets twice a month at night for two hours (once a month in June and July, never in August). No debt but I am considering helping my wife with hers.
2. Not in a million fucking years UNLESS it was Yale and I was positive that I would obtai some academic or no risk government position that qualified me for loan forgiveness and I was positive loan forgiveness wasn’t going anywhere.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35502910) |
Date: February 27th, 2018 10:39 PM Author: blathering dull kitchen pozpig
1) yes. law school didn't cost very much because i chose adequate school + scholarship instead of prestigious school + loans. and it's not like i was doing anything better with my time so screwing around for 3 years was a perfectly fine way to live for a while. now i have a job that i like at a firm that i like and live a pretty comfortable lifestyle.
2) lol
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35502919) |
Date: February 28th, 2018 12:02 AM Author: Tripping Gay Wizard Pisswyrm
My cost for law school was:
$30K/year tuition
probably an opportunity cost of $60K/year.
So about a cost of $300K minus about $100K since tuition was covered by my parents.
I was a state university grad, had a BBA in marketing, graduated with a 3.6 GPA. Pretty underwhelming job prospects.
Went to a low 2nd tier LS, on a 161 LSAT.
Now, earning about 250-300K running my own firm (grossing over $600K, at least for now, but things can go either way depending on how laws might affect my practice). It was worth it, but I was close to not even breaking into the legal field. If I failed to do so, things could be very different, and it wouldn't have been worth it at all. I was very fortunate for getting the opportunity that I did, and I can pretty much live anywhere I want (I could shut down my practice, and just freelance as an attorney if I wanted, and still get by). When I started out, I had horrible job prospects, hit by ITE (2008 job market), and graduated LS with a 3.0 GPA. I got my first job because I knew someone who had an opening, and could only afford to pay me $40K in my first year, got ignored/rejected by 100+ firms I sent my resume to.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35503475) |
Date: February 28th, 2018 12:13 AM Author: Lilac Lay
1) yes. biglaw associate. planned on going to law school for free (the best school to give me a full ride, which ended up being Chicago). but a elderly & eccentric relative said he'd pay my full tuition if I copped HYS. so I copped HYS.
now, he is dead. coincidentally, i got a share of the inheritance when my siblings did not.
this was also important for social reasons, because my branch of the family very badly FLAGGING at academic and vocational achievement and they needed one child with (fake) preftige
also, when I graduated UG, job market not great
2) lol fuck no
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35503532) |
Date: February 28th, 2018 4:19 AM Author: copper boyish electric furnace
1. Yes. I went T6 at sticker and paid off after 5 years. Now I have a good job, no debt - couldn't have done with bs english degree
2. Yes, but only if you really have no other options and you are going to HYS. Even then, you should try something else for a few years because you are hahafucked at 300k, you will have to be a lawyer for a decade minimum.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35504282) |
Date: March 4th, 2018 2:13 PM Author: Violent 180 Center
I went from $38k per year to $300k per year, at a cost of $350k over the course of 13 years. It will have been a great decision if I live to 43. I was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer four months ago.
Also, I am underinsured and the lifestyle my children are currently enjoying will almost certainly be shattered.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35532685) |
Date: March 4th, 2018 3:02 PM Author: sable swashbuckling home hissy fit
Yes, I am a 9-6 inhousemo making +$300k and took $$ from a lower T14 over better schools to keep debt down.
If I could go all the way back to HS/before college I would study something else and not do this again because I'd create a better track. After graduating as a poli sci shithead from a "non-target" school I don't know that I actually could create a better track so would go again.
edit: if I went again I would not go at sticker, I would do the same thing I did last time.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3905405&forum_id=2#35532933) |
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