There has to be more going on with evolution than random mutations
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Date: March 5th, 2018 3:27 PM Author: concupiscible rigpig home
I don't want to get too deep into some singular thing like venom, but this sounds exactly like a litany of bullshit intelligent design arguments from complexity, ie. The eye is too complex to evolve, allegedly so are plenty of other things. Except pretty much every single one of these I've seen, there's a bunch of actual biologists pointing out just how well we understand the evolution of things like eyes via the fossil record etc.
It's an argument from lack of data (real or perceived lack,) and lack of creativity in thinking of how things can evolve.
How much do you know about evolution of venom, how much do you know about how much knowledge we have available on the subject?
Wild speculation ahead, but perhaps venom evolve in stages like eyes and tons of other complex organs did, over a long as time and with many different species using those stages along the way, without some end game in the mind of a slow-playing intelligent designer for it to end up as venomous snakes ten million generations down the road.
Re venom: http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/01/09/on-the-origin-of-venom/
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3910479&forum_id=2#35540126) |
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Date: March 6th, 2018 8:51 AM Author: Frozen Adulterous Hissy Fit
you didn't even read to the end of your own article. the article has been amended and the title is no longer true"
"In other words, there is no obvious sexual dimorphism in neck length. As a result, the authors concluded that the "competing browsers" hypothesis "is the more likely explanation for tallness in giraffes".
In the last 10 years evidence has emerged that weakens the necks-for-sex hypothesis
Meanwhile, other researchers have found direct evidence for the competing browsers hypothesis. By erecting fences around Acacia trees in South Africa, Elissa Cameron and Johan du Toit were able to reveal the impact that smaller competitors like steenbok, impala and kudu have on food availability.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3910479&forum_id=2#35545062) |
Date: March 5th, 2018 1:41 PM Author: White underhanded national sandwich
i agree totally, have said this for years.
it makes no sense as presented ('random adaptive mutations' WOW, SO RANDOM).
it doesn't make sense that random mutations created something so uniform as the archetype of say, a human being. it makes sense, PERHAPS, that random mutations created the eyeball. but why stop there? why didn't some people develop a THIRD eye somewhere on their bodies? and why would 3-eyed and 2-eyed people not evolve side by side? 3 eyes vs 2 eyes is not SUCH an advantage that the 3-eyed people would have slaughtered all the 2-eyed people or something.
the whole theory is a little too 'just so' for me to accept.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3910479&forum_id=2#35539332) |
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Date: March 5th, 2018 2:17 PM Author: Motley jet-lagged nowag
there are actually animals with 3 eyes
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parietal_eye
it serves a very logical purpose as a defense function - animals with a parietal eye are cold-blooded and have to spend time bathing in the sun, often with no cover. the parietal eye can alert them to predators approaching from above and behind.
The Tuatara is a nocturnal lizard (most lizards are diurnal) that occasionally spends time sunbathing. It makes sense that its parietal eye is more developed than other lizards. Geckos are almost all nocturnal and do not have a parietal eye.
Primates almost all developed under foliage so it makes sense that we don't have this third eye.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3910479&forum_id=2#35539616) |
Date: March 5th, 2018 1:48 PM Author: concupiscible rigpig home
"lengthy, infrequent process of random mutations can account for them all."
Infrequent? There's your error, chief. Mutations happen with every reproduction. Over a population of any non-negligible size and any significant number of generations, that's a shit load of mutations. Hard to call it infrequent.
Without getting to any supernatural stuff, I have trouble understanding how life would do anything but evolve on its own. I don't pretend to understand this all well enough to say it must require some supernatural, or a vague ability of plants to "see" what's best for their next generation beyond regular natural selection processes which seem to do that perfectly well.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3910479&forum_id=2#35539384) |
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Date: March 5th, 2018 2:34 PM Author: dashing den
that is a good example of the kind of thing I think evolution has hard time explaining.
IIRC people like Dan Dennett call something like this as possibly explained by "exaption"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exaptation
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3910479&forum_id=2#35539752) |
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Date: March 5th, 2018 3:34 PM Author: concupiscible rigpig home
"but for the most part those mutations are so simple that they wouldnt even be noticed by the environment."
True, most mutations don't come to dominate the gene pool and quickly die out.
Re venom, see my other response above. How confident are you in your exhaustive knowledge of the origins of venoms? Do you know whether there are any known intermittent stages leading to venom?
It isn't totally implausible that there is some supernatural guidance, but it would need to be supernatural and my default is to be extremely skeptical of concluding that supernatural interference is necessary. The existence of venom doesn't move my needle. It doesn't seem much more complex than flight, which evolved independently multiple times, or eyes, which also did, etc.
http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/01/09/on-the-origin-of-venom/
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3910479&forum_id=2#35540178) |
Date: March 5th, 2018 5:40 PM Author: Floppy very tactful love of her life
that predator makes me so angry.
i wish i could just shoot shit out of my eyes at him.
evolve
horned toads
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3910479&forum_id=2#35541202)
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Date: March 5th, 2018 5:51 PM Author: Floppy very tactful love of her life
dear god, please let me be the only animal who can shoot shit out of my eyes
filter evolution
horned toads remain
thanks, god
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3910479&forum_id=2#35541252) |
Date: March 6th, 2018 5:51 AM Author: Iridescent ticket booth useless brakes
open ur eyes, longpigs: http://www.macroevolution.net
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3910479&forum_id=2#35544767)
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