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Which famous musician's legacy was helped most by an early death?

Intuitively I feel like Cobain is the right answer here, but...
Razzmatazz costumed orchestra pit
  04/23/18
Cobain for sure I don't know enough about Jim Morrison, b...
aquamarine psychic gaping
  04/23/18
i think it's either Joplin or Morrison. both were already i...
Razzle-dazzle pink messiness
  04/23/18
Jim Croce is still alive as a guitar teacher in Fairborn, Oh...
Saffron stage wagecucks
  04/23/18
Elvis
bright provocative sanctuary stock car
  04/23/18
Jimi easily. Had he stayed alive, he would've gone the Mile...
Aggressive stubborn blood rage
  04/23/18
Hendrix is a possibility, but his play was so unique and sou...
Razzmatazz costumed orchestra pit
  04/23/18
No way. It's not like Miles Davis's popular music is conside...
twinkling point brethren
  04/23/18
it's obscure to most non-musicians, particularly his albums ...
Aggressive stubborn blood rage
  04/23/18
I don't know about that.
aquamarine psychic gaping
  04/23/18
not having a Jimi/Santana Grammys "mashup" in 2003...
Razzle-dazzle pink messiness
  04/23/18
like prince
Alcoholic knife pit
  04/23/18
hank williams has to be up there. he was popular during his...
Aromatic striped hyena dragon
  04/23/18
...
mauve mewling regret
  04/23/18
Wrong. Johnny Cash wasn't pop-country and remained relevant...
Razzle Office
  04/23/18
lol, don't be silly. songs like "walk the line" a...
Aromatic striped hyena dragon
  04/23/18
Johnny Cash's career was at a point of very high irrelevancy...
black aphrodisiac den sweet tailpipe
  04/23/18
Joplin or cobain
smoky cerebral friendly grandma
  04/23/18
Cr
Disrespectful blue indian lodge
  04/23/18
how was joplin's career helped by her death? she sucked bef...
Aggressive stubborn blood rage
  04/23/18
lol no, she's idolized by ugly fat boomers who love ugly fat...
Razzle-dazzle pink messiness
  04/23/18
btw, the musicians i listed are just some suggestions. certa...
Razzmatazz costumed orchestra pit
  04/23/18
I always forget buddy holly even existed
smoky cerebral friendly grandma
  04/23/18
the Big Bopper was supposed to be on that plane. You're prob...
Motley garnet ticket booth prole
  04/23/18
holly was wildly-popular when he was alive and had a massive...
Aromatic striped hyena dragon
  04/23/18
Buddy Holly was cr and on his way to being huge
dull menage idea he suggested
  04/23/18
Buddy Holly is an interesting choice - he released a stunnin...
Overrated Brass House Internal Respiration
  04/24/18
Morrison.
Laughsome parlour
  04/23/18
Joplin wouldn't be anywhere close to as famous if not for he...
fiercely-loyal home
  04/23/18
...
smoky cerebral friendly grandma
  04/23/18
...
sooty chapel
  04/23/18
Sublime is another example of an early death drastically inc...
smoky cerebral friendly grandma
  04/23/18
that's probably true
Razzmatazz costumed orchestra pit
  04/23/18
I heard an obscure sublime song last weekend that I had neve...
aquamarine psychic gaping
  04/23/18
Sublime are HUGE among the appropriate age group.
Razzle Office
  04/23/18
Morrison. He was on his way to becoming a has-been fat boome...
exhilarant mediation
  04/23/18
Jim Morrison, easily. He was already in a steep decline. ...
Ivory windowlicker church building
  04/23/18
Buddy Holly had a lot of future potential. Richie Valens an...
Razzle Office
  04/23/18
janis joplin
Lemon Nofapping Area Fanboi
  04/23/18
Sid Vicious, because he was a shitty "musician" an...
Metal incel
  04/23/18
I don't think he has a musical legacy though.
Razzle Office
  04/23/18
well, OP said "musician's legacy", not musical leg...
Metal incel
  04/23/18
this is pretty cr. look what became of johnny rotten post se...
Lemon Nofapping Area Fanboi
  04/23/18
Actually Public Image Ltd was a great band who made some rea...
Metal incel
  04/23/18
Cr
black aphrodisiac den sweet tailpipe
  04/23/18
Rotten had Public Image Ltd which was far superior to the Se...
Motley garnet ticket booth prole
  04/23/18
Public Image Ltd is pretty cr, faggit.
Razzle Office
  04/23/18
listen guys i never heard this public image or whatever band...
Lemon Nofapping Area Fanboi
  04/23/18
I'd say that he didn't have nearly as much fame with PiL as ...
black aphrodisiac den sweet tailpipe
  04/23/18
...
Galvanic pale jewess
  04/24/18
Cobain easily, give nirvana two more albums and he's not the...
turquoise electric toaster school
  04/23/18
Cobain had future potential. He was actually talking about ...
Razzle Office
  04/23/18
...
Metal incel
  04/23/18
Sure, sure. It would have sucked
turquoise electric toaster school
  04/23/18
lol
Lemon Nofapping Area Fanboi
  04/23/18
What about Bob Marley? He's revered as almost a religious, ...
Metal incel
  04/23/18
Naw. He died at 36 from natural causes. I think his popula...
Razzle Office
  04/23/18
speaking of him, that's kind of what happened to robert john...
Aromatic striped hyena dragon
  04/23/18
Nah, reefer Bob was legit
onyx chad
  04/23/18
Scott Weiland
Alcoholic knife pit
  04/23/18
The Scott Weiland story is what would have happened to Kurt ...
black aphrodisiac den sweet tailpipe
  04/23/18
cr. scott weiland would be held in far higher esteem had he...
Razzle-dazzle pink messiness
  04/24/18
The guy who sang la bamba
Irradiated clear pocket flask stead
  04/24/18
Richie Valens, already mentioned.
Razzle Office
  04/24/18
Isaac Brock
Galvanic pale jewess
  04/24/18
morrison is prolly most cr but Elliott Smith is pretty clos...
jade histrionic degenerate sneaky criminal
  04/24/18
My moniker is partly an homage to E. Smith but I don't reall...
black aphrodisiac den sweet tailpipe
  04/24/18


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:08 PM
Author: Razzmatazz costumed orchestra pit

Intuitively I feel like Cobain is the right answer here, but what about people like Buddy Holly, Jim Morrison, Janis Joplin, Notorious B.I.G., etc?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902653)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:11 PM
Author: aquamarine psychic gaping

Cobain for sure

I don't know enough about Jim Morrison, but the Doors had like 9 studio albums plus multiple live albums. If he lived, he would just be another boomer musician who gets fat and dies at like 70

Notorious B.I.G. was helped, but if he were still alive I think he would still be somewhat relevant today, in the way that Jay Z and Snoop Dogg are today (not a ton of big hits anymore, but still around)

I don't know shit about Janis Joplin

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902687)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:12 PM
Author: Razzle-dazzle pink messiness

i think it's either Joplin or Morrison. both were already in steady decline at time of death and got revived with publicity from death.

jim croce is probably another option. he was planning to quit music and become a screenwriter when his plane crashed

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902699)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:27 PM
Author: Saffron stage wagecucks

Jim Croce is still alive as a guitar teacher in Fairborn, Ohio

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902839)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:13 PM
Author: bright provocative sanctuary stock car

Elvis

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902706)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:14 PM
Author: Aggressive stubborn blood rage

Jimi easily. Had he stayed alive, he would've gone the Miles free jazz route into obscurity rather than remain a perennial rock god.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902720)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:14 PM
Author: Razzmatazz costumed orchestra pit

Hendrix is a possibility, but his play was so unique and soulful that he would have continued to be revered as a guitar icon

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902727)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:14 PM
Author: twinkling point brethren

No way. It's not like Miles Davis's popular music is considered obscure now.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902729)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:16 PM
Author: Aggressive stubborn blood rage

it's obscure to most non-musicians, particularly his albums after bitches brew.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902749)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:18 PM
Author: aquamarine psychic gaping

I don't know about that.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902762)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 9:45 PM
Author: Razzle-dazzle pink messiness

not having a Jimi/Santana Grammys "mashup" in 2003 was probably the saving grace of our (((culture)))

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35904974)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:18 PM
Author: Alcoholic knife pit

like prince

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905199)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:15 PM
Author: Aromatic striped hyena dragon

hank williams has to be up there. he was popular during his lifetime, but his style of "country-western" was actually getting overtaken by pop country near the end of his run. his death turned him into a cultural icon.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902737)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:17 PM
Author: mauve mewling regret



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902760)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 9:45 PM
Author: Razzle Office

Wrong. Johnny Cash wasn't pop-country and remained relevant right up to his death.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35904977)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 9:52 PM
Author: Aromatic striped hyena dragon

lol, don't be silly. songs like "walk the line" and "ring of fire" (his biggest early hits) were much more pop-country than anything hank williams did aside from maybe "hey good lookin'". HW was doing weird, jittery songs like "kaw-liga" or singing plaintively about how he wasn't going to make it out of the world alive.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905020)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:06 PM
Author: black aphrodisiac den sweet tailpipe

Johnny Cash's career was at a point of very high irrelevancy before he linked up with Rick Rubin to do the American albums

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905094)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:16 PM
Author: smoky cerebral friendly grandma

Joplin or cobain

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902741)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:16 PM
Author: Disrespectful blue indian lodge

Cr

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902747)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:17 PM
Author: Aggressive stubborn blood rage

how was joplin's career helped by her death? she sucked before she died and didn't really get any more popular or revered posthumously

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902758)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 9:45 PM
Author: Razzle-dazzle pink messiness

lol no, she's idolized by ugly fat boomers who love ugly fat singers

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35904978)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:21 PM
Author: Razzmatazz costumed orchestra pit

btw, the musicians i listed are just some suggestions. certainly not meant to be exhaustive.

Buddy Holly certainly gets a lot of cache from dying in that plane crash. who knows if he'd have ever made it really big

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902789)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:23 PM
Author: smoky cerebral friendly grandma

I always forget buddy holly even existed

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902807)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 9:52 PM
Author: Motley garnet ticket booth prole

the Big Bopper was supposed to be on that plane. You're probably thinking "who the fuck is the Big Bopper". Exactly.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905021)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 9:54 PM
Author: Aromatic striped hyena dragon

holly was wildly-popular when he was alive and had a massive #1 hit in 1957 with "That'll Be the Day." richie valens is probably a better example of someone who became a lot more popular as a result of that crash, and then again after that 80's biopic came out.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905035)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:06 PM
Author: dull menage idea he suggested

Buddy Holly was cr and on his way to being huge

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905096)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 24th, 2018 6:11 AM
Author: Overrated Brass House Internal Respiration

Buddy Holly is an interesting choice - he released a stunning number of classic songs in an extraordinarily short period of time - like 18 months. There's no way he could've kept up anything like that pace.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35906923)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:18 PM
Author: Laughsome parlour

Morrison.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902763)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:20 PM
Author: fiercely-loyal home

Joplin wouldn't be anywhere close to as famous if not for her death. Her most well-known album, with pretty much the only songs people know from her, was released posthumously

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902783)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:23 PM
Author: smoky cerebral friendly grandma



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902803)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:04 PM
Author: sooty chapel



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905080)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:24 PM
Author: smoky cerebral friendly grandma

Sublime is another example of an early death drastically increasing their popularity. Not on the same level as some others, but certainly worth mentioning

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902816)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:26 PM
Author: Razzmatazz costumed orchestra pit

that's probably true

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902828)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:28 PM
Author: aquamarine psychic gaping

I heard an obscure sublime song last weekend that I had never heard before (not one of the usual ones you hear on the radio). it was awesome.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902844)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 9:46 PM
Author: Razzle Office

Sublime are HUGE among the appropriate age group.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35904987)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 4:31 PM
Author: exhilarant mediation

Morrison. He was on his way to becoming a has-been fat boomer when he died.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35902875)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 9:42 PM
Author: Ivory windowlicker church building

Jim Morrison, easily. He was already in a steep decline.

Could maybe argue Ian Curtis.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35904948)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 9:44 PM
Author: Razzle Office

Buddy Holly had a lot of future potential. Richie Valens and the Big Bopper OTOH are only remembered for dying.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35904958)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 9:46 PM
Author: Lemon Nofapping Area Fanboi

janis joplin

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35904983)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 9:47 PM
Author: Metal incel

Sid Vicious, because he was a shitty "musician" and an utter retard who wouldn't have been able to go onto anything else and basically did nothing else but die. Instead he became an icon, on t-shirts, had movies made about him

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35904991)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 9:56 PM
Author: Razzle Office

I don't think he has a musical legacy though.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905041)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 9:57 PM
Author: Metal incel

well, OP said "musician's legacy", not musical legacy in particular

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905049)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:01 PM
Author: Lemon Nofapping Area Fanboi

this is pretty cr. look what became of johnny rotten post sex pistols. just a bloated rat faced brit with nothing interesting to say.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905070)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:02 PM
Author: Metal incel

Actually Public Image Ltd was a great band who made some really good albums in the 80s. And Rotten was a clever guy. But Sid Vicious was a literal retard.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905073)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:03 PM
Author: black aphrodisiac den sweet tailpipe

Cr

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905078)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:02 PM
Author: Motley garnet ticket booth prole

Rotten had Public Image Ltd which was far superior to the Sex Pistols

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905074)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:02 PM
Author: Razzle Office

Public Image Ltd is pretty cr, faggit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905075)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:07 PM
Author: Lemon Nofapping Area Fanboi

listen guys i never heard this public image or whatever band so i stand by my post.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905098)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:27 PM
Author: black aphrodisiac den sweet tailpipe

I'd say that he didn't have nearly as much fame with PiL as he did with the Sex Pistols

But they still put out some good music

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905286)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 24th, 2018 12:14 AM
Author: Galvanic pale jewess



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35906078)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:04 PM
Author: turquoise electric toaster school

Cobain easily, give nirvana two more albums and he's not the "voice of a generation" they're just another grunge band

Morrison was basically done already when he died and Hendrix would have done at least a couple more cool things

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905081)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:05 PM
Author: Razzle Office

Cobain had future potential. He was actually talking about moving on from grunge before he offed himself.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905088)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:06 PM
Author: Metal incel



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905091)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:09 PM
Author: turquoise electric toaster school

Sure, sure. It would have sucked

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905111)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:19 PM
Author: Lemon Nofapping Area Fanboi

lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905206)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:07 PM
Author: Metal incel

What about Bob Marley? He's revered as almost a religious, mystical figure thanks to his early death. Would he have turned into a boring old GC faggot later in life?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905102)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:14 PM
Author: Razzle Office

Naw. He died at 36 from natural causes. I think his popularity is based on a solid catalog of hits.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905151)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:21 PM
Author: Aromatic striped hyena dragon

speaking of him, that's kind of what happened to robert johnson. going from a regional celebrity to some kind of "blues saint," in large part because he died young.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905224)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 11:34 PM
Author: onyx chad

Nah, reefer Bob was legit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905840)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:19 PM
Author: Alcoholic knife pit

Scott Weiland

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905202)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2018 10:29 PM
Author: black aphrodisiac den sweet tailpipe

The Scott Weiland story is what would have happened to Kurt Cobain had he lived that long

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35905295)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 24th, 2018 12:13 AM
Author: Razzle-dazzle pink messiness

cr. scott weiland would be held in far higher esteem had he not turned into an insufferable junkie twink

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35906073)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 24th, 2018 12:08 AM
Author: Irradiated clear pocket flask stead

The guy who sang la bamba

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35906044)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 24th, 2018 12:10 AM
Author: Razzle Office

Richie Valens, already mentioned.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35906053)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 24th, 2018 12:15 AM
Author: Galvanic pale jewess

Isaac Brock

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35906079)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 24th, 2018 3:03 AM
Author: jade histrionic degenerate sneaky criminal

morrison is prolly most cr

but Elliott Smith is pretty close

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35906676)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 24th, 2018 3:20 AM
Author: black aphrodisiac den sweet tailpipe

My moniker is partly an homage to E. Smith but I don't really agree with him being a candidate for this thread. He hit a certain level of popularity in the early 2000s and just kinda maintained it. Didn't really increase it much posthumously IMO

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3957604&forum_id=2#35906736)