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Keto diet v Mediterranean diet
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 10:05 AM Author: anal bistre hospital brethren Med diet which is healthy fats, fish, a little chicken, fruits & veggies with moderate alcohol consump I heard is the best for health/longevity. Is it as good/better than keto?
Also what is a keto diet really? Just meat and plants? |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 10:07 AM Author: Costumed Indirect Expression Spot Keto is ~70% of calories from fat, 20-25% of calories from protein, and the rest from [good] carbs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36110852) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 10:07 AM Author: Pungent Smoky Psychic Shrine a keto diet, in its essence, is any diet that puts you in ketosis. so the whole premise is restricting net carbs. the amount of net carbs necessary to enter and remain in ketosis differs by individual. generally, it is advised you stay under 20 net carbs per day, and certainly no more than 50. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36110853) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 10:13 AM Author: anal bistre hospital brethren This is what confuses me though, I always thought the body enters "ketosis" simply based on calories, like after you burn the calories you eat, your body begins to burn fat (ketosis). I always thought carbs were essential to body/brain function, and high fat seems like it could have drawbacks. They talk about "healthy" fat like olive oil but say eating fatty meat like beef is bad. It's so hard to parse through all this info for what is true though, it confuses the hell out of me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36110879) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 10:19 AM Author: Pungent Smoky Psychic Shrine As for part A), your body enters ketosis when it doesn't have enough carbs to use as fuel and has to turn to burning fat for energy. Carbs matter more than calories.
As for part B), see this: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/29/low-fat-diet-linked-higher-death-rates-major-lancet-study-finds/ |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 10:35 AM Author: anal bistre hospital brethren yeah, I saw that study. "low fat" is not good, as fat is absolutely essential for the body and healthy fats have huge benefits, but I've also heard that ODing on fat or high fat is equally bad as low fat. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36111051) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 11:04 AM Author: maniacal azn rigor the tl;dr of every healthy diet out there is: eat a shitload of green leaves and if you're still hungry eat some meat or nuts or fruit
if you hate green leaves you're fucked no matter what diet you do, your insides and outsides do not reflect one another: tons of those guys with abs are going to die at 50 from clogged arteries
i've been seeing SAHMs post-pregnancy switch whole family to keto diets where they are posting the meals they make, and they are so fucking unhealthy with shitloads of bacon and butter and stuff, but the keto is making them lose weight |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 11:07 AM Author: Beady-eyed fortuitous meteor There are plenty of actual doctors who disagree with you that saturated fat causes clogged arteries and is unhealthy. Otherwise, I agree with eating tons of green vegetables. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36111261) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 12:18 PM Author: maniacal azn rigor Interesting note, physicians don't know shit about nutrition, though. As my wife confirms every damn time I ask her something about nutrition. They don't study it in school, and they just repeat whatever bullshit the USDA tells them.
I actually had a discussion with her about this specific issue where I was on the "sat fat isn't bad" side and I went to get some articles to pwn her but couldn't actually find anything that wasn't controversial re some bad research methods or whatever.
But cholesterol is OK. That one is from what I can tell pretty well established, that dietary cholesterol and blood serum cholesterol aren't really connected in a meaningful way.
TBF I wasn't really making a "sat fat is bad" argument so much as a "shitloads of calories are bad" argument. Also cured meats in excess aren't good because of the nitrates/nitrites (forget which).
FWIW I use butter in a ton of my cooking as a skillet/pan greaser and don't bat an eye at throwing a whole knob in for scrambled eggs. But these people seem to just eat shitloads of butter and bacon and they're like OMG I GET TO HAVE BACON AND BUTTER WHENEVER I WANT! |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 11:08 AM Author: Costumed Indirect Expression Spot there is nothing inherently "unhealthy" about bacon and butter, particularly if you have a local butcher for the bacon and buy irish butter (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36111265) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 11:13 AM Author: anal bistre hospital brethren https://www.cancer.org/latest-news/world-health-organization-says-processed-meat-causes-cancer.html (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36111307) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 11:15 AM Author: Beady-eyed fortuitous meteor The "treating" it to preserve the meat is the focus of the article. Pretty sure that's why the poast you responded to referred to a local butcher. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36111319) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 11:16 AM Author: anal bistre hospital brethren Yeah bc everyone buys their meat and especially bacon at the local butcher. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36111323) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 11:18 AM Author: Beady-eyed fortuitous meteor That's your argument? There are shittons of places to find "organic" or otherwise straight-from-the-farm meats. Just as most people go to the meat counter instead of buying something in a sealed package by Oscar Meyer or some shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36111340) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 11:20 AM Author: anal bistre hospital brethren Most people?
http://www.grubstreet.com/2018/03/americas-obesity-rate-hits-record-high.html
https://www.statista.com/statistics/256057/us-retail-sales-of-processed-meat-by-type/ |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 12:22 PM Author: maniacal azn rigor it's really not that hard to do this provided you aren't an assmaster who shops at walmart/meijer/heb/enola albertsons/wegmans (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36111774) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 12:22 PM Author: anal bistre hospital brethren I love wegmans (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36111777) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 12:21 PM Author: maniacal azn rigor dat cured meats tho
and yeah we only use kerrygold, but because it tastes the best and it's a healthier butter is just a nice side benny |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 10:38 AM Author: Beady-eyed fortuitous meteor "carbs were essential to body/brain function"
No, carbs are the one macronutrient you don't need to live. The brain and body will run on ketones in the absence of carbs. If you eat a lot of protein, your liver will convert amino acids into glucose (which is why keto diets keep the protein relatively low). |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 10:44 AM Author: Pungent Smoky Psychic Shrine cr. the carbs being "essential" myth is just a remnant of all the old propaganda and bad science. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36111090) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 10:58 AM Author: anal bistre hospital brethren Ugh this shit is so confusing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36111195) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 12:27 PM Author: maniacal azn rigor Don't sweat it too much. If you just eat a normal diet, the most significant effect on your QOL will be regular exercise. Diet is more important for not being a fat fuck, but the bennys you get from optimizing your diet can almost entirely be had by regular cardio
i expect significant pushback from weightliftmos here who think cardio kills gainz, which is clearly not true if you look at active-duty marines - significant cardio as part of their job, but many are really aesthetic. |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 12:28 PM Author: anal bistre hospital brethren What is the cr amt of cardio brother. 45-1hr/day? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36111822) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 12:31 PM Author: maniacal azn rigor i get at least 45 mins probably 4-6 times a week depending on if i'm training for a race, and there was some new study out that suggested more cardio than the standard rec (maybe it was 45-1hr 5x wk?), but IIRC the standard rec has been 45-ish mins 3x/wk
i'm a big fan of HIIT (sprinting, basically) and distance running, love them both, but the meatheats on the zo will try to convince you that if you do distance running you will look like a holocaust victim
BUTTTTTTTTT i would say the cr amount of cardio is "a little more than you're currently doing"
telling someone who doesn't do cardio to start doing 5hrs/wk is almost always a non-starter, but telling someone who doesn't do cardio to add an hour of it to their week and they're like "oh wow 20 mins three times a week!" and it seems easy, and IMO once you get regularly doing it, you'll find you feel pretty good and there will be nice side effects like normally if you go to the grocery store hungry you'll wnat to buy all kinds of junk, but if you go hungry right after a run, you'll feel like some next-level guru shit who doesn't need that ish to be happy
i used to hate running with a burning passion, but it grew on me and now i enjoy it a lot
i also lift and play sports, so i'm not some twink |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 12:32 PM Author: anal bistre hospital brethren Heard the same but I think as long as you weight lift, you'll offset this.
Right now I do 30-45 min per day about 5 days a week so I think I'm alright. |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 12:34 PM Author: maniacal azn rigor you sound like you're doing good brother, congrats on the good life (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36111878) |
Date: May 23rd, 2018 10:15 AM Author: Maize National It depends on what you are eating for. There is a tradeoff between athletic performance/aesthetic and longevity.
If you are eating for longevity and to minimize chronic diseases, a Med Diet is cr (w/low protein if you are under 65 and higher protein if you are 65+)
You should also be doing a 5 day fast every 1-6 months depending on your weight and lifestyle
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 10:17 AM Author: anal bistre hospital brethren 5 day fast?? jfc
I try to do "intermittent" fasting but I have no idea if I'm doing it right. I don't even from 9pm - noon following day, except for coffee in morning. But I don't know if 15 hrs is long enough to count. |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 10:19 AM Author: Maize National the benefits from fasting become exponential once you hit ketosis and autophagy
you can also do a FMD (fast mimicking diet) for 5 days if you want. it's eating ~800 calories in a 45/45/10 carbs/fat/protein split and still get most of the benefits
http://www.richroll.com/podcast/valter-longo-367/
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 11:05 AM Author: maniacal azn rigor the most common IF diet is 8pm to noon (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36111247) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 5:02 PM Author: rusted harsh lay So just skipping breakfast? Oh what a fast (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36113870) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 10:17 AM Author: autistic field half-breed 3 dudes I work with are doing Keto diets. They are miserable but have all lost north of 25 pounds in less than two months. I just can't imagine keeping that diet up long term. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36110909) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 10:19 AM Author: anal bistre hospital brethren I don't really need to lose weight though. I'm pretty thin, although I need to build muscle mass (current BMI is 22.9 but I can't really see my lower abs due to a fat pad, but it's only bc my abs are so undeveloped, not bc of large amt of fat). It keto only good for weight loss? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36110917) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 12:25 PM Author: maniacal azn rigor keto is only good for muscle sparing while you do weight loss IMO, for actually building muscle you have to eat a caloric surplus and you WILL gain fat while you do so, it's impossible not to - the Q is how much extra fat are you ready to tolerate before you switch back to deficit and then do keto in order to keep most of your new muscle while you cut the fat off (google bulk and cut, which is what all serious bodybuilders and WLs do)
ppl who've drunk the keto kool aid will argue that it's a better diet for the rest of your life tho but there's ZERO research on the long-term effects of keto, so it might turn out 20yrs of keto causes brain cancer or something, we just don't know |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 10:32 AM Author: Costumed Indirect Expression Spot i lost 32 lbs in 3 mos but then plateaued, and was too tired to lift heavy weights anymore. plus it's a pain in the ass to keep up with while traveling so i just bagged it. have kept about half the weight off. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36111036) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 12:37 PM Author: maniacal azn rigor and a lot of the weight you didn't keep off was water - keto results in significantly less water weight as well (indeed the first week or so all the weight you shed is just water) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36111913) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 11:05 AM Author: Multi-colored Rehab Pisswyrm Blue zone diet is credited for long term health. It’s similar to med diet but really minimizes meat.
Up your,legume intake since you’re likely not getting enough |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 12:41 PM Author: Floppy Blathering Lodge Mad Cow Disease Greeks are fat, stupid, and obnoxious, like their "diet".
A real man eats medium-rare beef with a side of lightly fried bacon. |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 5:08 PM Author: anal bistre hospital brethren and dies at 50 like a fucking man (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36113898) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 9:53 PM Author: Floppy Blathering Lodge Mad Cow Disease Flame, fraud and lies conjured by the BigSalad lobbyists. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36115487) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 12:55 PM Author: Adventurous Learning Disabled Halford Skinny Woman I think of diets as falling into three categories: 1) fat loss; 2) nutrition (i.e. "health") and 3) performance. Many diets blend the categories.
Keto is proven to be excellent for fat loss. There are many health benefits, but you don't necessarily need to eat "nutritious" foods to hit ketosis. It's really about macronutrients. Keto is not the best for high intensity activity, but there are many "hacks" around this, such as cyclical ketogenic diets and carb-backloading.
Mediterranean is a blend. If you have a caloric restriction, you can lose weight. It focuses more on nutritious food. You also probably get enough carbs and protein to support moderate to heavy exercise, although macronutrients would need to be modified based on whatever activity you are focused on. (I.e., a weightlifter vs. a cycler).
Keep in mind, nothing is more unhealthy than being a fat slob. If you are overweight, I'd do the diet that allows you to drop fat at a comfortable speed of 1-2 lbs per week. Once you are at a healthy weight, start focusing on long term nutrition. |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 1:04 PM Author: Mahogany boiling water orchestra pit Well said. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36112099) |
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Date: May 23rd, 2018 5:09 PM Author: anal bistre hospital brethren Thanks (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3984492&forum_id=2#36113901) |
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Date: August 3rd, 2022 4:46 PM Author: Claret diverse giraffe indian lodge you can do a "keto" version of the mediterranean diet -- take out the grains and up the fish, avocados, nuts, olive oil, etc. the traditional keto diet, with loads of red meat, butter, bacon, etc. will rocket most people's cholesterol to the moon and shouldn't be adhered to longterm unless you're cool with being on a statin |