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Should men always wear wristwatches?
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Date: June 21st, 2018 9:52 PM Author: Beta Weed Whacker Doctorate I have not worn a wristwatch since sometime in college. I hated how within a year the face would always get some kind of weird scuff on it, the strap eventually tear, or the little knobs would get bent somehow. Granted they were garbage fossil brand watches.
Should I start wearing one again? Can I even be considered a man without one?
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Date: June 21st, 2018 9:58 PM Author: Light son of senegal center Only if you get one with a cool complication like a reserve de marche, or a perpetual calendar or a minute repeater or at a minimum a cool skeletonized watch. A Grand Seiko with a reserve de marche function for like $7k is my suggestion for entry level.
If all it does is tell time -- boring. |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 9:59 PM Author: cracking trump supporter why not get a JLC ultra thin reserve de marche for the same price like you did? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287912) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:02 PM Author: Light son of senegal center Most one watch dudes buy 1 42mm sport watch and not an ultra thin dress watch . The JLC is very dressy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287931) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 11:57 PM Author: Buck-toothed Police Squad Nibblets are you flame? you make nowhere near enough money to buy all the shit you post about, particularly living in a high COL area. are you some kind of nigger with money for real? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294782) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 12:04 AM Author: silver volcanic crater forum isn't are reptile a Bolshevik Slumlord? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294827) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 9:13 AM Author: cracking trump supporter Litigates in front of Gorsuch, depos at Cadwalader, invents insurance product, Brighton beach slumlord. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36295755) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:00 AM Author: Buck-toothed Police Squad Nibblets Oh he did a stint st Cadwalader in addition to QE? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36296112) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 10:55 PM Author: Light son of senegal center I did a depo at Cadwaladers office. LJL. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299062) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 10:54 PM Author: Light son of senegal center I make $275k a year and my wife works. Our combined income is north of $350k. One of my houses is paid off. I can afford this shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299056) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 1:18 AM Author: dead vigorous hell useless brakes Your wife makes just over $75k/year? Ouch. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299736) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 9:58 PM Author: chest-beating gas station (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287905) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:09 PM Author: Light son of senegal center The rotor isn't real gold. I couldn't live with an exposed rear with a fake gold rotor. It would drive me batshit. Grand Seiko is credited. Regular Seiko is not. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287959) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:12 PM Author: chest-beating gas station (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287974) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:00 PM Author: comical new version stock car I find it convenient. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287916) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:58 AM Author: confused splenetic immigrant Yep, I find it convenient (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289664) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 12:56 PM Author: Mind-boggling blathering mother home (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36290945) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 12:14 AM Author: Smoky Misanthropic Piazza Mental Disorder Sir! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299440) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:00 PM Author: Harsh Dragon no one will respect you if you dont have a timepiece on your wrist past 25. thats just how it is. you can get a pass if you wear one of these faggy apple iwatches. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287919) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:03 PM Author: chest-beating gas station (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287937) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:04 PM Author: Beady-eyed Kink-friendly Place Of Business no they look grippa stupid (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287939) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:11 PM Author: Light son of senegal center Cartier has a new 36mm Santos that is highly credited for like $10k. It's nothing special horologically but it is probably the sexiest fashion watch ever made and their new automatic inhouse movement isn't totally horrible. It's certainly no worse than a Nomos movement. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287971) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:24 PM Author: concupiscible dopamine fanboi 36mm? How big is the men's version? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288041) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:27 PM Author: Light son of senegal center The original Santos was 29mm. 36 is the enlarged modern version. Still a classic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288064) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:58 AM Author: confused splenetic immigrant LJL at womanly $ wasting on TTT Cartier (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289668) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:01 PM Author: Light son of senegal center This is the credited attitude to have for all their watches but two models. They make a sick tourbillon for $40k and the Santos is credited because of its history as the first wristwatch. Every other Cartier can be ignored. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299093) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:15 PM Author: hairless thriller school azn there is no reason to have a wristwatch, you might as well just burn your money (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287997) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:26 PM Author: Light son of senegal center After the quartz crisis all the better manufacturers learned to police supply to the point where the waiting list for a lot of Vacheron and Audemars Piguet and even the better Rolex models is something like "sometime after 2025." You put down a deposit for the pleasure of waiting 8 years. They sell for way, way, way over retail on the grey market. Like Ferraris. This is generally all for shit over $30k. At the $10k price point it's easy to fall for a model with resale value that's less than half of retail. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288060) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 10:11 PM Author: sepia party of the first part Lol what currently produced Rolex has a 7 year wait? I doubt any. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294256) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 10:53 PM Author: Light son of senegal center Ceramic Daytonas. The way around the waitlist is to buy like 5 shittier models and then your sales rep makes a call. Other than that you pay double on the grey market or wait 5-7 years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299048) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:34 PM Author: Stimulating Very Tactful Church Building Gaming Laptop it's annoying as fuck to have to whip out your phone every time you want to check the time
unlike what bitchface is saying itt you don't need to spend a shitton on one. it's really easy to get a very classy vintage watch without paying much. |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:41 PM Author: Light son of senegal center Vintage watches all break easy. Vintage basically means pre saphire faces and before near frictionless silicon gears. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288114) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:42 PM Author: Stimulating Very Tactful Church Building Gaming Laptop wow nobody gives a flying fuck (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288119) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:55 AM Author: sepia party of the first part Of course that’s what a prole russian striver would say. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289653) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:29 PM Author: galvanic point (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299250) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:21 PM Author: Beta Weed Whacker Doctorate hmm how about an Oris propilot? I like the way it looks, not too expensive, Swiss, and has an altimeter which I could possibly use
https://www.oris.ch/en/collection/oris-big-crown-propilot |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:29 PM Author: Light son of senegal center Oris is has a skeleton model that is very credited for the money but their movements are pretty vanilla ETAs with no story. They are reliable and for the money quite good but I don't see the point of any watch at this price point. The point of this hobby is to own something weird and unique and insanely complicated. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288073) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:34 PM Author: Up-to-no-good corner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288088) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:37 PM Author: bespoke ocher masturbator Sounds about right. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288104) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:46 PM Author: Light son of senegal center I've been thinking of buying this ecodrive.
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/citizen-eco-drive-one-thinnest-light-powered-watch
Every mass market line has one or two standout models for real watch collectors. I wouldn't buy a vanilla ecodrive but this thing I would buy. |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 11:41 PM Author: silver volcanic crater forum $20 says it's this model
https://us.citizenwatch.com/us/en/mens-corso/BM7262-57A.html?cgid=mens-ecodrive |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 11:46 PM Author: Up-to-no-good corner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294741) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:35 PM Author: vibrant university gunner There are a few German watchmakers who make nice entry level luxury watches. Check out Stowa and Nomos. Nomos is a bit more expensive because of their in-house movement, but the Stowa movements are fine (they're Swiss), and I think Stowas look better. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288092) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 2:41 PM Author: drab bearded business firm telephone Stowa might be the best value around. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36301752) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:38 PM Author: Light son of senegal center Joe Rogan explains watches
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IsZaOlCEmYs |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 10:25 PM Author: Beta Weed Whacker Doctorate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294317) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:40 PM Author: dead vigorous hell useless brakes Get a good smartwatch (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288109) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:40 PM Author: Stimulating Very Tactful Church Building Gaming Laptop cr really great way to signal that you're a fag (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288111) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:44 PM Author: dashing nudist native idiot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288127) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:44 PM Author: dead vigorous hell useless brakes no u. You signal that you're tech-savvy and cutting edge while being both productive and fashion forward. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288128) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:44 PM Author: Stimulating Very Tactful Church Building Gaming Laptop that is literally the textbook definition of a fag (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288129) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:49 PM Author: dead vigorous hell useless brakes No, a fag is a man who takes another man's penis in his butt or mouth and/or puts his penis in another man's butt or mouth. This is about intelligently choosing a watch that is both functional and stylish. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288146) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:35 AM Author: glittery grizzly quadroon Actually, NOT doing those things makes you a fag. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289565) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 12:56 PM Author: dead vigorous hell useless brakes I forgot that this is a nude bodybuilding forum... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36290940) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:51 PM Author: floppy stag film (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288153) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:52 PM Author: cracking trump supporter (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288159) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 11:38 PM Author: vivacious dysfunction market (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288347) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 8:21 AM Author: Vermilion Faggot Firefighter Messiness (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289311) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:54 AM Author: talented doobsian stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289648) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 10:16 PM Author: Diverse double fault ladyboy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294280) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:16 PM Author: silver volcanic crater forum (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299189) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 1:20 AM Author: Umber motley field indirect expression (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299740) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 2:11 PM Author: obsidian irradiated coldplay fan (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36301642) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:46 PM Author: shivering charismatic sweet tailpipe (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288138) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:42 PM Author: Light son of senegal center Right, so you have one more device to charge every single day. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288117) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:43 PM Author: dead vigorous hell useless brakes You just place it on a stand at night. It takes zero thought. No one sleeps with a watch on anyway. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288122) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:46 PM Author: Yellow exhilarant brunch An automatic mechanical watch is actually the most convenient way to keep track of time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288137) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:53 PM Author: cracking trump supporter just look at the sun (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288160) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:54 PM Author: Light son of senegal center Some of us live in the arctic circle, bro. Not cool. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288161) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 8:23 AM Author: Histrionic box office lettuce Real men? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289321) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 8:27 AM Author: fragrant shimmering pervert ABWW. A always B be W wearing W wristwatches. always be wearing wristwaches. ALWAYS... BE WEARING WRISTWATCHES. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289329) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:50 AM Author: cream shrine wearing an orange seiko monster right now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289629) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:53 AM Author: supple frum hall organic girlfriend seems like a huge waste of money (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289647) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 1:01 PM Author: sticky prole clown Watches are Boomer flame (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36290968) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 1:18 PM Author: Yellow exhilarant brunch (pocketwatch proponent) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36291067) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 3:03 PM Author: dead vigorous hell useless brakes pocketwatch = cell phone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36297034) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 10:39 PM Author: Bossy parlour Yes. Always. (GC) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294387) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 10:48 AM Author: confused splenetic immigrant This is stupid, men carrying a timepiece predates (((GC))) fucking with everyone’s lives and no one said it had to be an expensive watch, could be a $10 Casio digital. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36296038) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 10:57 PM Author: Light son of senegal center There are $5000 G-Shocks from Casio. Even with digital there is no reason to ever go prole. Buy one of those. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299071) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 2:42 PM Author: confused splenetic immigrant Why would anyone spend $5k on a digital watch? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36301757) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 10:57 PM Author: Bossy parlour CR but back then we didn't all have 15 clocks (or timekeeping devices) in every room. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299074) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:03 PM Author: Light son of senegal center Just do ask Alexa for the time. But what do you do after Red Dawn when the internet and power is down as Russian EMPs killed all th Quartz time pieces? Then you will wish you had a Rolex. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299100) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 2:44 PM Author: confused splenetic immigrant Still, i'd rather glance at a cheap wristwatch than have to pull my piece of shit GC iPhone out of my pocket to check the time (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36301761) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:04 PM Author: Fighting Plum School Cafeteria Mad-dog Skullcap If you're comfortable with being a jewelry guy, I guess. Personally, I don't like to wear jewelry so I don't wear a watch. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299107) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:05 PM Author: Light son of senegal center But then you can't legitimately tell a dude that your watch costs more than his car. That's the ultimate powe move short of raping his wife while he watches. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299117) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 12:16 AM Author: Smoky Misanthropic Piazza Mental Disorder (5’4” dude) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299456) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 1:03 AM Author: Disrespectful wonderful site mediation mfCrrrrrrrrr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299665) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:18 PM Author: Beta Weed Whacker Doctorate So I should add a gold necklace as well? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299212) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 1:22 AM Author: dead vigorous hell useless brakes Wait, are there people here who don't wear thick gold necklaces? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299747) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:04 PM Author: Passionate autistic spot I've worn the same green timex since I was 18 its a 180 watch (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299110) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:17 PM Author: Bossy parlour cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299204) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:19 PM Author: Brindle Excitant Legend Location lol at the people in this thread that dont check their email 60x times an hour and complaining about having to take out their phone to check the time. jokes on you i already know the time because i never get to put my phone down. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299217) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:21 PM Author: Light son of senegal center It's not about telling time. It's about having a super cool insanely complicated machine on your wrist that has 900 man hours of work behind it. Some slave spent 6 months making one watch and you own it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299223) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:26 PM Author: Brindle Excitant Legend Location yah idk man id rather spend the 20k on like a miata or sweet motorcycle. that checks all your weird sociopath boxes but also, you know, does something functional.
edit: also good: hiring an actual person to just do 900 man hours of helpful work for you. laundry, cleaning, errands, etc. |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:27 PM Author: Light son of senegal center Most car guys are watch guys. You do both, bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299243) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:29 PM Author: Brindle Excitant Legend Location i am a car guy. if i have another 20k to burn im getting another car. not some dumb ass fucking watch that only the people i like the least would appreciate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299247) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:24 PM Author: Light son of senegal center If all your watch does is tell time you're doing it wrong. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299235) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 12:12 AM Author: obsidian irradiated coldplay fan Brother in law recently bought me a Cartier watch. Appreciate the gesture but I feel like it’s a waste of money (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299426) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 12:21 AM Author: Aphrodisiac address what would you have liked instead (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299484) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 12:47 AM Author: obsidian irradiated coldplay fan Nothing. I’m a joyless autist/ xo poster (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299617) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 1:20 AM Author: Umber motley field indirect expression same (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299742) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 1:35 AM Author: abusive green den ape (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299790) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 12:23 AM Author: boyish carnelian keepsake machete range don't the Goldman guys wear Timex Ironmans? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299492) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 2:40 PM Author: copper pungent set http://www.businessinsider.com/gselevator-on-wall-street-watches-2016-9 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36301745) |