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yes/no was Truman/USA justified in dropping the atomic bomb on Japs?
| Alcoholic Spectacular Affirmative Action | 06/27/18 |
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| Alcoholic Spectacular Affirmative Action | 06/27/18 |
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: June 27th, 2018 9:02 AM Author: Alcoholic Spectacular Affirmative Action vote ITT (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317559) |
Date: June 27th, 2018 9:03 AM Author: Shaky ultramarine garrison yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317561) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:04 AM Author: Alcoholic Spectacular Affirmative Action yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317569) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:04 AM Author: violet deep set degenerate yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317571) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:04 AM Author: diverse flickering queen of the night no (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317573) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:05 AM Author: Alcoholic Spectacular Affirmative Action you have to go back (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317576) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:17 AM Author: diverse flickering queen of the night settle down moshe. we were on the wrong side of that war. lol at teaming up with feckless brits/french and TTT russians instead of based krauts and japs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317651) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:18 AM Author: Alcoholic Spectacular Affirmative Action so after evil coward japs conducted a sneak attack on pearl harbor we should have fought on the side of japs/krauts? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317658) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:32 AM Author: Adventurous Quadroon FDR made it his life mission to provoke the Japs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317764) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:50 PM Author: deranged jade clown office cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319704) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:06 AM Author: Iridescent Lascivious Codepig Chapel an absolute and unequivocal yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317582) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:08 AM Author: Alcoholic Spectacular Affirmative Action cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317599) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:12 AM Author: contagious mildly autistic stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317628) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:06 AM Author: garnet genital piercing trailer park yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317583) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:09 AM Author: Chrome talented yarmulke center (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317604) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:10 AM Author: dashing abode associate should have nuked Moscow while we were at it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317614) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:10 AM Author: Alcoholic Spectacular Affirmative Action cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317620) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:15 AM Author: garnet genital piercing trailer park cr, mistakes were made, but not in the pacific theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317640) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:15 AM Author: Shaky ultramarine garrison The Nagasaki bomb was for Moscow. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317641) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:19 AM Author: Violent fragrant hospital roast beef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317663) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:57 PM Author: Salmon galvanic police squad Just do betray allies with weapons of mass destruction, bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319757) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:14 AM Author: umber pontificating cruise ship messiness No (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317637) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:22 AM Author: dark bbw Yes. We fucked up Jap cities with conventional bombs worse, anyway.
Libs who think using the a-bomb wrong are usually misinformed. They're pretty much comparing a modern nuke attack against something like the Doolittle raid |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:34 AM Author: Hairraiser Blue Business Firm Half-breed no (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317768) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:38 AM Author: Stimulating School Dingle Berry How else could the US have won the war? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317791) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 9:40 AM Author: dark bbw Other ways, all of which would have killed way more Japs still, and caused the rest to suffer and starve (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36317802) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 10:56 AM Author: Passionate erotic home Yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36318303) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 11:02 AM Author: indigo violent toilet seat whorehouse No. Deliberate massacre of civilian populations is never justified. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36318352) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:08 PM Author: Alcoholic Spectacular Affirmative Action cuck (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319417) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:23 PM Author: indigo violent toilet seat whorehouse Actually, no, believing it's acceptable to exterminate civilians is a lib innovation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319540) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:52 PM Author: deranged jade clown office You would have accepted 2m lost American soldiers as an alternative?
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:02 PM Author: Salmon galvanic police squad And also spent at least as many Japanese lives (probably 2x+ more), many of them civilians because "you're uncomfortable" with the alternative? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319805) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:03 PM Author: indigo violent toilet seat whorehouse I don't believe for a single moment that that many U.S. troops would have died invading Japan (in fact, I find it highly unlikely we'd have needed to land on Japan at all), but yes, losing soldiers in an actual battle is preferable to deliberately exterminating civilians. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319819) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:05 PM Author: deranged jade clown office *Charles XII Sumner, sitting at his desk, with Muscadine W. Brooks, cane in hand, approaching* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319855) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:12 PM Author: indigo violent toilet seat whorehouse Odd choice of identities, given that I'm basically advancing a version of Southern chivalry while you are pushing the Yankee doctrine of total war. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319960) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:24 PM Author: Hairraiser Blue Business Firm Half-breed (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319548) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:28 PM Author: Adventurous Quadroon I am somewhat sympathetic to this view, but to the extent I find it sympathetic, I suspect my views are biased by modern warfare, with its limited nature and use of precision munitions.
By the way, I haven't forgot about my Roman/Russian research project. It looks like I should have this Saturday free and plan to dive into it then. |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:31 PM Author: indigo violent toilet seat whorehouse Even in an age of very unprecise, very deadly warfare, they historically had standards for how it was to be fought. The Civil War was a very brutal war, yet had very few atrocities against civilians on either side. Even Sherman's famous "March to the Sea" was conducted with rules to minimize civilian death. It took 20th century ideologies to revert back to the barbarism of antiquity and justify the wholesale extermination of enemy populations. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319602) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:47 PM Author: Adventurous Quadroon I think this may be a bit generous to historical actors. What was missing between 1500 to the early 1900s was a means for inflicting nearly instantaneous, relatively indiscriminate, widespread destruction, which became a possibility with aerial bombing. If Sherman had a squadron of B-17s and the South had heavy industry interspersed throughout Atlanta, I am relatively confident Sherman would have flattened Atlanta.
The standards you reference primarily require the existence of a legitimate military target and reasonable steps to minimize collateral damage, with the reasonableness standard necessarily accounting for the state of military tech at the time. In a "total war" situation that is being fought with imprecise, free-falling bombs, civilians are toast. |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:52 PM Author: deranged jade clown office TBF, he did a pretty good job of flattening Atlanta anyways, and Columbia as well. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319720) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:53 PM Author: Adventurous Quadroon Sure, but due to the methods Sherman used, the civilians had plenty of time to exit the city beforehand. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319732) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:54 PM Author: deranged jade clown office Fair point. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319740) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:05 PM Author: indigo violent toilet seat whorehouse Atlanta's population was evacuated prior to the city's destruction, and Columbia's burning was not ordered by Sherman; it was either an accident or caused by the hooliganism of individual Union troops. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319850) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:06 PM Author: deranged jade clown office re: Columbia, very much a contested fact. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319863) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:11 PM Author: indigo violent toilet seat whorehouse Actually, you're wrong here. For example, Sherman explicitly forbade the destruction of individual homes during the March to the Sea (this didn't stop it from happening sometimes, of course, but it wasn't deliberate policy). In contrast, the Allied bombing campaigns literally WERE premised on destroying individual houses, with the excuse that "dehousing" the civilian population was a valid military goal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehousing
And then we have this quote from Bomber Harris:
"The aim of the Combined Bomber Offensive ... should be unambiguously stated [as] the destruction of German cities, the killing of German workers, and the disruption of civilised life throughout Germany ... the destruction of houses, public utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-products of attempts to hit factories." |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 5:38 PM Author: Adventurous Quadroon Let me clarify my position. I don't doubt that Sherman and other officers imposed such chivalrous rules of engagement, but such rules, at that time, concerned activities that were at the margin of the fighting that was taking place at that time.
However, if the North had squadrons of B-17s it could unleash on the South, possessing such ability to project force would have informed and ultimately changed the activities that those prosecuting the war effort thought of as acceptable.
In a way, I am taking Shelby Foote's position concerning how the individuals who fought these wars should be judged by contemporary society. They were no different than modern people. Their thoughts, beliefs and actions were simply a product of their time and circumstances.
As for your closing quote, that is precisely the point I was getting at with my juxtaposition of "total war" and the limited engagements that have been fought since. To be clear, I am claiming that the quoted basis for target is acceptable, let alone that it should be applauded. |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:02 PM Author: bossy cowardly incel double fault (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319806) |
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Date: March 24th, 2019 5:14 PM Author: Bat-shit-crazy blathering area goy tell (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#37982649) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:24 PM Author: Brindle bipolar locus cuckoldry Obviously Yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319551) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:26 PM Author: provocative twinkling institution (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319560) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:26 PM Author: bright magical piazza cuck My answer to this question entirely hinges on how instrumental nukes were in the future development of pornographic Japanese cartoons. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319561) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:27 PM Author: electric mustard mexican 100% YES (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319570) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:49 PM Author: Slate kitchen nowag First one yes second one no. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319700) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:49 PM Author: deranged jade clown office Yes, 100%, and there are no real arguments against it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319702) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:52 PM Author: Pale razzle-dazzle school cafeteria (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319722) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:54 PM Author: Slate kitchen nowag There are plenty of arguments against it but most of them don’t credibly account for the likelihood that absent a demonstration of overwhelming force, the Japanese would not have surrendered. An invasion of Japan would reasonably be considered to cost a million lives on both sides based on the island hopping campaign. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319738) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:55 PM Author: deranged jade clown office Thus, the "real" qualifier. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319745) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:56 PM Author: Salmon galvanic police squad (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319749) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:57 PM Author: Slate kitchen nowag They are real if you believe that civilian lives should be privileged over combatant lives like Charles12 does. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319764) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 3:13 PM Author: Soggy nighttime church building The distinction between civilian and combatant is super fucking bullshit when you consider how many combatants are conscripts (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36320882) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 3:14 PM Author: Salmon galvanic police squad (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36320904) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:01 PM Author: supple indian lodge juggernaut (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319795) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:03 PM Author: Salmon galvanic police squad Yeah, it was just a coincidence that it was immediately after two Japanese cities were nuked. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319824) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:06 PM Author: supple indian lodge juggernaut (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319865) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:07 PM Author: deranged jade clown office With some truth to this, analysis still applies. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319876) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:08 PM Author: supple indian lodge juggernaut (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319895) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:55 PM Author: Salmon galvanic police squad (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319744) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:02 PM Author: indigo violent toilet seat whorehouse Of course there are. For example, the argument that it is evil to deliberately massacre hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians just to win a war more quickly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319804) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 1:50 PM Author: Smoky Beady-eyed Brunch Fat Ankles Risten, I rove a Tluman rongtime but... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319706) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:00 PM Author: irradiated slimy parlour Yes, of course. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319784) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 2:02 PM Author: Onyx know-it-all milk Yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4011392&forum_id=2#36319807) |
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Date: June 27th, 2018 5:43 PM Author: Floppy dysfunction I appreciate Charles XII’s argument.
But yes, we were justified. The trend on invasions was costing us more and more. Invading Japan proper and fighting a militarized civilian population would have been more damaging. |