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Cslg is 180 overall But giving clients unecessary injections gives me pause

...
vengeful step-uncle's house yarmulke
  09/23/18
...
Blue wonderful hominid sanctuary
  09/23/18
you actually validate the opposite of whatever view you endo...
Green Masturbator Space
  09/23/18
You seem pretty chill
Blue wonderful hominid sanctuary
  09/23/18
africans will be most of the world population by 2100 they ...
Green Masturbator Space
  09/23/18
(MAF pumo defending corporations at his day job opining on b...
180 startled piazza private investor
  09/23/18
Maybe you’re right. I like the guy
vengeful step-uncle's house yarmulke
  09/23/18
The doctors are scammers too. Insane they are injecting peop...
Startling At-the-ready Kitty Associate
  09/23/18
If a client still has significant pain after months of chiro...
embarrassed to the bone gaping newt
  09/23/18
Yeah, the scammer doctors do it who know they won't get refe...
Startling At-the-ready Kitty Associate
  09/23/18
Cr, it’s really the doctors fault imo. Don’t really blame cs...
Blue wonderful hominid sanctuary
  09/23/18
But the insurance companies know the bills are inflated. ...
embarrassed to the bone gaping newt
  09/23/18
Huge risk? It takes like 10 minutes to do an epidural lol.
Startling At-the-ready Kitty Associate
  09/23/18
Doctors time and the surgery center rental and the review of...
embarrassed to the bone gaping newt
  09/23/18
I am sending this to every defense attorney on your cases: ...
Chestnut sexy toilet seat corn cake
  09/23/18
Why? So they could say to you “no shit dumbass”?
embarrassed to the bone gaping newt
  09/23/18
They can do with it as they see fit.
Chestnut sexy toilet seat corn cake
  09/23/18
You sound like a popular guy
contagious new version
  09/23/18
I am perhaps the most hated opposing counsel in my state.
Chestnut sexy toilet seat corn cake
  09/23/18
> chiro treatment C'mon bro
mustard becky
  09/23/18
? Chiro treatment is helpful for conservative treatment of ...
embarrassed to the bone gaping newt
  09/23/18
gas yourself
mustard becky
  09/23/18
What would you recommend for a small back injury? Most top ...
embarrassed to the bone gaping newt
  09/23/18
I'd recommend that scumfuck shitlawyers gas themselves
mustard becky
  09/23/18
You’re dumb as fuck dude. Even the insurance company docs a...
embarrassed to the bone gaping newt
  09/23/18
...
Marvelous Alpha
  09/23/18
You're legit low iq
geriatric bbw useless brakes
  09/23/18
...
Marvelous Alpha
  09/23/18
...
embarrassed to the bone gaping newt
  09/23/18
...
Marvelous Alpha
  09/23/18
Let it go you fucking faggot lol. This is how grown ups work...
bipolar main people
  09/23/18
This crew of shitlaw autists has no idea how “grown ups work...
Marvelous Alpha
  09/23/18
Why are you so jealous?
bipolar main people
  09/23/18
(autist hitting rock bottom and continuing to dig)
Marvelous Alpha
  09/23/18
You've thoroughly embarrassed yourself itt
bipolar main people
  09/23/18
Are you a public interest lawyer or a public defender or som...
contagious new version
  09/23/18
Oh man I should have stayed in insurance defense my entire l...
embarrassed to the bone gaping newt
  09/23/18
Good thing every member of our firm is a mod
contagious new version
  09/23/18
Pathetic poast towing the line of defamation. Everything ab...
embarrassed to the bone gaping newt
  09/23/18
...
Marvelous Alpha
  09/23/18
What about the “operation” do you dislike? What do you actu...
embarrassed to the bone gaping newt
  09/23/18
Edit: never mind, no longer poasting in any of these threads
Marvelous Alpha
  09/23/18
That's why CSLG is such a good poster. Taking all the risk ...
contagious new version
  09/23/18
No benefit? Haven’t xo posters like earl sent him cases
vengeful step-uncle's house yarmulke
  09/23/18
All I’m discussing is what is already known by the defense a...
embarrassed to the bone gaping newt
  09/23/18
Thought they usually recommend physical therapy and don’t ta...
vengeful step-uncle's house yarmulke
  09/23/18
If you don't have significant pain after months of chiro tre...
Slap-happy jewess crackhouse
  09/23/18
This is almost all of american medicine. Hardly anything is ...
geriatric bbw useless brakes
  09/23/18
If your client treats through insurance and has super low bi...
embarrassed to the bone gaping newt
  09/23/18
Yeah, This is fair and I see where you’re coming from . Tha...
vengeful step-uncle's house yarmulke
  09/23/18
I worked in house for an insurance company, as do a few othe...
embarrassed to the bone gaping newt
  09/23/18
Fair
Bat shit crazy stage
  09/23/18
Does defamation give you pause, OP?
contagious new version
  09/23/18
Jesus you're such a faggot.
bipolar main people
  09/23/18
"we all know what’s really happening" that appl...
Claret love of her life
  09/23/18
cr. op is a bad lawyer or just stupid
bipolar main people
  09/23/18
Fair. Some of the shit you mentioned is much more morally re...
vengeful step-uncle's house yarmulke
  09/23/18
i agree the xo firm does nothing wrong
Claret love of her life
  09/23/18
He’s a bottom feeder
gaped rehab sandwich
  09/23/18
I don’t think he administers them himself
Bat shit crazy stage
  09/23/18
they're just saline
hairless drab psychic
  09/23/18
Might want to review the elements of defamation bro
contagious new version
  09/23/18
I’m happy to answer questions for anyone ITT.
embarrassed to the bone gaping newt
  09/23/18


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:35 AM
Author: vengeful step-uncle's house yarmulke



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867290)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:38 AM
Author: Blue wonderful hominid sanctuary



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867307)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:40 AM
Author: Green Masturbator Space

you actually validate the opposite of whatever view you endorse here, faggot

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867320)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:41 AM
Author: Blue wonderful hominid sanctuary

You seem pretty chill

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867326)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:42 AM
Author: Green Masturbator Space

africans will be most of the world population by 2100

they will probably rape/kill your grandkids assuming you are white

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867334)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:36 AM
Author: 180 startled piazza private investor

(MAF pumo defending corporations at his day job opining on board hero's ethics)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867298)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:36 AM
Author: vengeful step-uncle's house yarmulke

Maybe you’re right. I like the guy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867300)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:38 AM
Author: Startling At-the-ready Kitty Associate

The doctors are scammers too. Insane they are injecting people just to run up the bill$.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867308)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:39 AM
Author: embarrassed to the bone gaping newt

If a client still has significant pain after months of chiro treatment, a single injection is the next step. I’ve sent clients to pain management doctors and they weren’t recommended anything and the case was wrapped up then.

No one has ever told a client to get an injection if they’re not in pain to increase the value of a case. I can guarantee you CSLG and Kenny have never said such a thing either.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867317)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:40 AM
Author: Startling At-the-ready Kitty Associate

Yeah, the scammer doctors do it who know they won't get referrals if they don't jack up the medical bills. It's all fraud, chandler.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867323)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:42 AM
Author: Blue wonderful hominid sanctuary

Cr, it’s really the doctors fault imo. Don’t really blame cslg and co

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867333)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:45 AM
Author: embarrassed to the bone gaping newt

But the insurance companies know the bills are inflated.

The value of an epidural through insurance is 2-3k

The true value of a lien epidural is around 6-8k. But the surgery centers our clients go to are way nicer than the insurance liens.

the lien epidural facilities charge anywhere from 12-18k per each injection. But don’t forget, these guys take huge risk that the actual recovery can be zero.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867343)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:46 AM
Author: Startling At-the-ready Kitty Associate

Huge risk? It takes like 10 minutes to do an epidural lol.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867353)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:47 AM
Author: embarrassed to the bone gaping newt

Doctors time and the surgery center rental and the review of medical records before hand all takes time. There’s also risk of fucking up

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867360)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:14 AM
Author: Chestnut sexy toilet seat corn cake

I am sending this to every defense attorney on your cases:

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:45 AM

Author: chandler

But the insurance companies know the bills are inflated.

The value of an epidural through insurance is 2-3k

The true value of a lien epidural is around 6-8k. But the surgery centers our clients go to are way nicer than the insurance liens.

the lien epidural facilities charge anywhere from 12-18k per each injection. But don’t forget, these guys take huge risk that the actual recovery can be zero.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867517)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:17 AM
Author: embarrassed to the bone gaping newt

Why? So they could say to you “no shit dumbass”?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867537)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:50 AM
Author: Chestnut sexy toilet seat corn cake

They can do with it as they see fit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867734)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:18 AM
Author: contagious new version

You sound like a popular guy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867542)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:49 AM
Author: Chestnut sexy toilet seat corn cake

I am perhaps the most hated opposing counsel in my state.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867731)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:43 AM
Author: mustard becky

> chiro treatment

C'mon bro

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867338)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:46 AM
Author: embarrassed to the bone gaping newt

? Chiro treatment is helpful for conservative treatment of lower back pain if the injury is not significant.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867347)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:47 AM
Author: mustard becky

gas yourself

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867358)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:48 AM
Author: embarrassed to the bone gaping newt

What would you recommend for a small back injury? Most top notch orthopedic doctor including the defense ones recommend chiropractic treatment to treat strains/sprains in the lumbar or cervical spine. Do you want a fucking epidural right away?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867370)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:54 AM
Author: mustard becky

I'd recommend that scumfuck shitlawyers gas themselves

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867411)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:00 AM
Author: embarrassed to the bone gaping newt

You’re dumb as fuck dude. Even the insurance company docs always recommend chiropractic treatment for minor strains/sprains. It’s agreed upon by both sides and even the top notch orthopedic surgeons always recommend it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867440)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:07 AM
Author: Marvelous Alpha



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867480)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:09 AM
Author: geriatric bbw useless brakes

You're legit low iq

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867489)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:10 AM
Author: Marvelous Alpha



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867494)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:19 AM
Author: embarrassed to the bone gaping newt



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867546)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:22 AM
Author: Marvelous Alpha



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867559)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:23 AM
Author: bipolar main people

Let it go you fucking faggot lol. This is how grown ups work.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867571)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:30 AM
Author: Marvelous Alpha

This crew of shitlaw autists has no idea how “grown ups work.” Just look at all their poasts. Regardless, I’ve blanked my poasts and will watch from afar.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867617)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:31 AM
Author: bipolar main people

Why are you so jealous?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867622)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:32 AM
Author: Marvelous Alpha

(autist hitting rock bottom and continuing to dig)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867637)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:34 AM
Author: bipolar main people

You've thoroughly embarrassed yourself itt

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867641)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:35 AM
Author: contagious new version

Are you a public interest lawyer or a public defender or something? That's the only way your posts wouldn't be completely retarded.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867649)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:32 AM
Author: embarrassed to the bone gaping newt

Oh man I should have stayed in insurance defense my entire life trying to deny justice to injured people! That was me being a grown up!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867634)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:23 AM
Author: contagious new version

Good thing every member of our firm is a mod

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867573)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:27 AM
Author: embarrassed to the bone gaping newt

Pathetic poast towing the line of defamation. Everything about our operation is 100% legit. You’re angry and seeing CSLGs posts and thinking they are typical results. Kenny and I have settled 30 or so cases and only one of them was six figures and that was a surgery.

I have a case where my clients vehicle was rear ended at a stop, 19000 in property damage. The vehicle in the rear sustained 23000 in damage. Both vehicles were totaled. Liability is not disputed. My client had serious injuries and got the epidural workup. His bills are around 70000, he has a surgery recommendation. The defense insurance company is offering 8000 dollars. It’s absolutely insane. The clients life has been ruined. Some insurance companies lowball and lowball until trial hoping the plaintiffs attorneys will cave for pennies and guess what, most of the time plaintiffs attorney do.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867600)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:34 AM
Author: Marvelous Alpha



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867644)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:37 AM
Author: embarrassed to the bone gaping newt

What about the “operation” do you dislike? What do you actually have an issue with? Do you realize we have plenty of cases where all of the treatment was completed prior to us having any involvement in the case (over 80 of them)? Do you realize we have dozens of cases where 100% of our clients treatment was through insurance?

You literally read CSLG posts and think they are typical results and get MAF.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867665)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:43 AM
Author: Marvelous Alpha

Edit: never mind, no longer poasting in any of these threads

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867699)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:46 AM
Author: contagious new version

That's why CSLG is such a good poster. Taking all the risk with no benefit to himself.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867711)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:50 AM
Author: vengeful step-uncle's house yarmulke

No benefit? Haven’t xo posters like earl sent him cases

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867733)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:49 AM
Author: embarrassed to the bone gaping newt

All I’m discussing is what is already known by the defense attorneys and the plaintiff attorneys.

I can understand why everyone sees CSLG posts about small property damage and huge settlements and think it’s a racket. Those results aren’t typical. The defense insurance companies know lien billing is inflated and hire these “billing review” experts on every case who testify as to the average costs from insurance databases. However these “billing experts” don’t take into account for lien costs, which should be more inflated due to the inherent risk in never getting any recovery.

Alliance United recently refused to pay out a 15000 dollar policy to an injured plaintiff. The trial result ended in 14 million awarded to the plaintiff. The insurance company literally REFUSED to pay the 15000 policy on that case until it was too late. Insurance companies are evil man. You’re acting like epidural lien billing is something the gigantic insurance entities know nothing about and can’t do anything about.

The power is always in the hands of the insurance companies.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867732)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:09 AM
Author: vengeful step-uncle's house yarmulke

Thought they usually recommend physical therapy and don’t take choros seriously

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867490)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:49 AM
Author: Slap-happy jewess crackhouse

If you don't have significant pain after months of chiro treatment you probably have some kind of neuropathy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867372)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:40 AM
Author: geriatric bbw useless brakes

This is almost all of american medicine. Hardly anything is necessary. But people on xo suddenly turn into anti overtreatment advocates when they see someone more successful in law by being his own boss. It's embarrassing and makes me question whether these jealous people are actually lawyers at all.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867321)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:42 AM
Author: embarrassed to the bone gaping newt

If your client treats through insurance and has super low bills despite significant treatment, the insurance will say “oh we’re offering you a low amount because the insurance paid and the bills are insignificant.”

If the client treats through lien based doctors, they try to say “oh your treatment is lien based and incredibly inflated!” Yet the offer will still be way higher than if it was through insurance.

Insurance companies (when I was on the defense side) offered 10k on a broken leg with a guy in a wheelchair for 3 months because treatment was done through insurance and the guy elected not to have surgery.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867331)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:48 AM
Author: vengeful step-uncle's house yarmulke

Yeah, This is fair and I see where you’re coming from . Thanks

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867366)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:50 AM
Author: embarrassed to the bone gaping newt

I worked in house for an insurance company, as do a few other poasters. You’d have to be insane to think the entity itself is not evil.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867382)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:43 AM
Author: Bat shit crazy stage

Fair

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867695)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 12:57 AM
Author: contagious new version

Does defamation give you pause, OP?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867428)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:05 AM
Author: bipolar main people

Jesus you're such a faggot.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867472)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:11 AM
Author: Claret love of her life

"we all know what’s really happening"

that applies to every lawyer role though. the public interest lawyer who lobbies to release criminals from prison; the prosecutor who doesnt care if they have the right guy as long as they get a V; the public defender who won't stip to basic shit for subhuman killers; the class action lawyer who wins coupon receipts; the corporate lawyer who gets meritorious complaints dismissed under iqbal/twombly by sympathetic former biglaw partner judge;

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867497)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:22 AM
Author: bipolar main people

cr. op is a bad lawyer or just stupid

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867561)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:26 AM
Author: vengeful step-uncle's house yarmulke

Fair. Some of the shit you mentioned is much more morally reprehensible (eg prosecutor scum bag not caring about getting the right guy)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867589)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:44 AM
Author: Claret love of her life

i agree

the xo firm does nothing wrong

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867703)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:36 AM
Author: gaped rehab sandwich

He’s a bottom feeder

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867656)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:44 AM
Author: Bat shit crazy stage

I don’t think he administers them himself

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867701)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:46 AM
Author: hairless drab psychic

they're just saline

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867710)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 1:47 AM
Author: contagious new version

Might want to review the elements of defamation bro

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867717)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2018 2:10 AM
Author: embarrassed to the bone gaping newt

I’m happy to answer questions for anyone ITT.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4084536&forum_id=2#36867810)