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In-house severance - what is typical / what should I fight for?
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:01 PM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon i’m likely to be downsized very shortly from my in-house position as part of a broader layoff. i don’t have a good sense of what is “market” for a severance package. my annual salary is $240k/year and i also have various RSU stock grants totaling $363k (at current share price) vesting over the next 4 years (the vast majority of which vests over the next 2 years).
what would be a reasonable negotiation posture? |
Date: February 18th, 2019 3:03 PM Author: Abnormal Cyan Parlour Community Account Bent over and ass clasped (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37802858) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 1:46 PM Author: racy pontificating tank theater (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37808496) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:04 PM Author: Zippy public bath regret 6 mo salary and vest that years stock (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37802861) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:09 PM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon does it cost the company any more to just accelerate every last share? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37802893) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:17 PM Author: Zippy public bath regret of course it does. they cant give it to someone else instead (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37802943) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:22 PM Author: Maniacal Vigorous Native Most companies will vest all RSUs if it is truly a RIF and not a performance related term (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37802981) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:23 PM Author: mustard heaven dysfunction Cr check you equity grant document (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37802989) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:53 PM Author: Zippy public bath regret absolutely not "most" companies. it's something you can negotiate you are very senior, sure (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803165) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:19 PM Author: Bronze thirsty lay personal credit line shouldn't u have negotiated severance before you got hired...what is your leverage now to ask for jack shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37802961) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:21 PM Author: garnet bisexual persian idiot this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37802971) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:24 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803002) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:21 PM Author: indigo locale telephone Why does any company give any severance at all to its hapless wagecucks? It's possible to negotiate Downward you know. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37802970) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:22 PM Author: curious state Cuz there's liability/reputation risks... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37802983) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:37 PM Author: indigo locale telephone Reputation = lol Liability = lol |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:39 PM Author: curious state If this was true why are severances given (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803089) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:47 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house Agree on reputation. No one wants to work for a company that is known for huge layoffs and shitty severance practices. So that makes talent acquisition harder/more expensive. Also, if you have a reputation for being shitty in layoffs, then employees that see a layoff coming start sending resumes immediately, and you can end up losing a bunch of people you don't want to lay off.
Liability? I mean, I would say in general "propensity to cause trouble" which includes trying to find BS to sue over, stealing data, destroying shit as they're out the door, or the weird circumstance where these people end up in positions of power elsewhere and have an axe to grind with that company. In general, you don't want every ex-employee (including people who weren't laid off but have seen others laid off and treated badly) to badmouth you. |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:41 PM Author: Bronze thirsty lay personal credit line are you pregnant and in a wheelchair? there is absolutely no risk to bigcorp sending your ass packing -- whether they turn off your badge fob while you're out picking up a $14 salad with a tiny pink overcooked (not really "grilled") chicken breast and ghost you like chad does a tinderslut, or give you 2 weeks notice and make you spend the time training your replacement. don't flatter yourself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803100) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:42 PM Author: curious state There's a nuisance value for all of this. Throw in reputation risk and it's a few months of severance (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803105) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:47 PM Author: Bronze thirsty lay personal credit line yeah just call a contingency fee lawyer and tell him you're a straight, white, able bodied male who got kicked to the curb and see if he wants 30% of your nuisance settlement value ljl (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803128) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:48 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house Severance policies aren't just based around straight, white able-bodied males. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803137) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:50 PM Author: Bronze thirsty lay personal credit line if there was a severance policy OP wouldn't be asking this. also, any "policy" at megacorp would likely be 2 weeks' pay, at best, even that is probably weasel worded to be technically discretionary. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803152) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:54 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house No, it is usually x number of weeks per year of service.
And many people here are silly and imagine they're special because they're lawyers or whatever. "Oh, I'll NEGOTIATE my way to a better severance! Then I'll start my own firm and work for AOC's campaign!" Yeah, good luck with all that. |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 9:25 PM Author: razzle stag film We typically do 2 weeks per year of service.
And agree 100% |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 10:33 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house Same. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37805652) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:50 PM Author: curious state If you tell them you make $200+ sure (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803149) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:52 PM Author: Bronze thirsty lay personal credit line let's see you have the right to 0% severance legally, and 0 damages for shitcanning a non-protected class, multiplied by $200k salary, 1/3rd of that for CSLG's cut. so that's...0.
his best shot is to check the RSU plan / award agreement and hope he gets some nice vesting triggered on a termination without cause. |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:53 PM Author: curious state Lol the cost of litigation is nuisance value. Plus reputation risk (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803166) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:54 PM Author: Bronze thirsty lay personal credit line megacorp and their employers' liability insurance defense mill probably run 50 cases from "wrongfully terminated" / "disabled" employees all the time, they don't give a shit. OP can enjoy a nice meal at Red Lobster with his nuisance settlement. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803174) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:54 PM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon the GC has to see me at all legal community social events for the next 20+ years as an equal, but sure let them give me $0 and let’s see how awkward that makes the gossip. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803171) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:56 PM Author: Bronze thirsty lay personal credit line plz livestream this meeting. do you think they'll serve a full hot breakfast spread in the windowless conference room? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803183) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 1:48 PM Author: racy pontificating tank theater (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37808510) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:57 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house Is it $0 or is it a few months (reasonably standard)? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803191) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 12:23 AM Author: Ungodly sapphire casino background story him: gc u: unemployed loser he fired o what equals! |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 1:47 PM Author: racy pontificating tank theater Ouch. . . (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37808505) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:21 PM Author: Zippy public bath regret also, out the company (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37802975) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:25 PM Author: garnet bisexual persian idiot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803012) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:21 PM Author: curious state Probably like 2 months (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37802977) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:23 PM Author: Trip anal shrine THIS IS MY FIGHT SONG (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37802991) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 8:41 AM Author: glittery unholy private investor property (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37806911) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:25 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house Sorry to hear this, but what do you imagine your leverage is? You ask for X where X is whatever. They say "nope". Now what? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803007) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:27 PM Author: lake overrated national security agency perhaps OP was "perceived as" having a disability (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803022) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:34 PM Author: mustard heaven dysfunction "...and then, and then - get this - that fucking idiot asked for another month of severance!!!!!"
*guffaws from CEO, CFO, and GC as they sit around smoking cigars and drinking this Friday at 2pm after laying off op* |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 1:48 PM Author: racy pontificating tank theater (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37808515) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:47 PM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon xo 2019: don’t negotiate severance even though there’s something to be said for what is “market,” just take whatever they hand you if anything.
are there any actual lawyers around this place anymore? |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:49 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house You can try to negotiate whatever you want, but the answer you're almost certainly going to get is "our severance policy is X, so here's what you're getting."
And this isn't a "lawyer" issue. You are not going to be able to threaten to sue them because they gave you 2-3 months instead of 6. |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:51 PM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon the legal community is small. there’s something to be said for them maintaining a good reputation when i’ll easily be able to swing a GC/AGC role if/when this happens. they shouldn’t fuck around with that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803156) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:55 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house That's why they give a few months instead of 0. But if you try to get something more than what they do because "the legal community is small" then you're probably going to get told where to stick your request. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803181) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:08 PM Author: Abnormal Cyan Parlour Community Account not if they lay you off first. good luck finding a wagecuck job while not currently a wagecuck (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803265) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:09 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house Idk, I've seen a bunch of laid off or outright fired people get back on their feet in the last few years. This isn't 2009 anymore. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803279) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:14 PM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon people with 15+ years in-house legal experience aren’t short on job opportunities. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803329) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:15 PM Author: Abnormal Cyan Parlour Community Account death to boomers (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803338) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:17 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house Or even 5+ years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803357) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:50 PM Author: mustard heaven dysfunction Not what he's saying brother. He is correctly suggesting that op should understand what negotiation power he has. And what sucks is that he likely doesn't have any (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803151) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:57 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803198) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 9:27 PM Author: Violent razzmatazz roast beef cuckold (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37805239) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:53 PM Author: deranged ticket booth How’s GM (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803164) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 3:58 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house Or Activision, or Tesla, or AT&T, etc. There are a lot happening right now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803203) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:00 PM Author: deranged ticket booth Verizon too (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803213) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:00 PM Author: Zippy public bath regret GM doesnt pay midlevel lawyers 350-400k (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803214) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:02 PM Author: deranged ticket booth I talked to a mid level lawyer at gm a few weeks ago. How much was he making? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803231) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:07 PM Author: Zippy public bath regret 150-250 depedning on what you mean by midlevel (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803261) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:10 PM Author: deranged ticket booth Damn he didn’t even seem that bright (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803284) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:03 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house Yeah, those are SV salaries. Where I am that's VP level comp. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803237) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:04 PM Author: Zippy public bath regret sad! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803243) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:05 PM Author: stimulating irate parlor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803249) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:08 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803266) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:08 PM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon explain the stock grant thing a bit more. xo was pretty clear that unvested stock options don’t count as incremental opex and wouldn’t represent a savinfs for the company because it was already baked at the time of the initial grant contract. so why should they care whether i get the shares that are already in the books? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803268) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:10 PM Author: Bronze thirsty lay personal credit line financial accounting isn't the same as economics. think about it man...can they give all 7 billion people in the world 1000 shares with nothing happening that hurts anyone else? of course not, it dilutes others, creates more mouths to feed with dividends, or takes up shares that can otherwise be reserved for someone else new coming into the pool. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803293) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:16 PM Author: stimulating irate parlor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803348) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:09 PM Author: Zippy public bath regret cr but replace "credible" with "potential" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803281) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:27 PM Author: opaque locus useless brakes cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803424) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:06 PM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon any hope in counteroffering their termination with reduced compensation? like i said, i can be GC/AGC elsewhere but legit believe in this company that i’m willing to take a hit for the team. how about throwing them a number like my initial salary when they hired me 10 years ago frozen until our revenues / profits hit certain targets?
alternatively, i could threaten to make life miserable for them by advising other companies to pursue strategic litigation in a way that doesn’t involve me exposing insider information but ultimately would likely bring down the company, and then it’s their choice whether they want me working for or against them. |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:08 PM Author: Bronze thirsty lay personal credit line "i could threaten to make life miserable for them by advising other companies to pursue strategic litigation"
do this and post updates. not legal advice. |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:09 PM Author: Zippy public bath regret (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803282) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:11 PM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon there are ways that can be done that can be justified as general legal know-how but just so happens to fuck them over. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803301) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:14 PM Author: Dashing Sex Offender Not a bad option.
Qualify it though.
Say something like: "If I do not receive severance in the amount of $________, I will, to the extent permitted by applicable law and to the extent I do not violate the legitimate legal rights of company, go out of my way to advise other companies to pursue strategic litigation against you" |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:17 PM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon the GC is smart, he’ll read between the lines when i say i’m planning on opening a practice focused on x and will advise companies on how to enforce their rights to the greatest extent possible against companies who may be infringing said rights, wherever that may lead me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803356) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 8:35 AM Author: electric menage Enjoy being disbarred. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37806900) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:08 PM Author: Zippy public bath regret jfc dont cuck yourself with #1 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803273) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:09 PM Author: Abnormal Cyan Parlour Community Account oh what a negotiator! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803277) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:10 PM Author: Zippy public bath regret (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803285) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 9:28 PM Author: Violent razzmatazz roast beef cuckold (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37805247) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 12:51 PM Author: Passionate Stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37808195) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 5:59 PM Author: Ungodly sapphire casino background story okay, is this flame? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37804042) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 8:35 AM Author: electric menage He’s be reported to the bar in 2 seconds. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37806901) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 8:39 AM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon you all are GC bootlickers. the hell i can be disbarred for starting a solo practice in an area that, if i happen to build a book of business in the same industry that i’m in, will end up asymmetrically impacting my ex company based on their internal processes related to said practice area compared to other peer companies.
anyway xo wants to burn the system down. this thread should really be about how i leverage actionable intelligence to the company’s (and like-situated companies’) detriment, |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:10 PM Author: Dashing Sex Offender I've had people like you try to negotiate a severance package when I gave them an employee termination agreement to sign with tons of one-sided provisions.
I just told them: "Except for the release of liability, everything in here is already in your original employment agreement, so unless you tell me right now a reason you plan on suing us, I don't care if you sign it. No way we will pay you severance. Why would we?"
They usually say something stupid like "It's tradition to give severance when not firing for cause".
I literally laugh in their face. Well not really. But I make it clear that there is NO SUCH TRADITION. |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:12 PM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon why should they sign then if the termination doesn’t get them anything significant? i’d rather walk away and make them sweat a bit over the unknown. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803315) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:13 PM Author: Abnormal Cyan Parlour Community Account he's flame. nobody signs a release without consideration (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803326) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:16 PM Author: Dashing Sex Offender Bro -- it's a MUTUAL release of liability! Totally not one-sided! ;)
But seriously, about half of employees sign it no questions asked. It even has language saying that they are under no obligation to sign it and they should have a lawyer look it over. About 1/4 say they wont' sign it. About 1/4 try to negotiate it and we refuse to negotiate it.
That said, this is pretty new and we've only used it on a few handfuls of lower-level people.
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:26 PM Author: mustard heaven dysfunction Guy who stole $300k from ur shit company just got off the hook based on ur stupid mutual release (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803418) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:27 PM Author: Zippy public bath regret (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803429) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:28 PM Author: Dashing Sex Offender What's more likley.
(a) an employee stole a shit load of money and we don't know about it at time of termination, or (b) employee sues us using one of a million insane shitlib laws.
I'll bet 100 to 1 on (b) every time .
Also, we'd still get criminal charges filed and get restitution anyway if he still has anything to go after. |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:16 PM Author: Bronze thirsty lay personal credit line yea u need to pay a little something to get them to sign, esp. if it's an old and you want to follow the age discrimination release hoopla and wait 7 days etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803349) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 9:27 PM Author: razzle stag film (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37805243) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:27 PM Author: opaque locus useless brakes nice poast moniker sync (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803430) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:43 PM Author: Dashing Sex Offender I'm gay (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803577) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:24 PM Author: opaque locus useless brakes if it's a big company they'll explicitly state what the severance policy is somewhere. you'd have to be pretty high up or have a really good reason to negotiate something extra. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803399) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:30 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803449) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:32 PM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon how about that i have a completely legal pathway that will ultimately result in the release of all the company’s crown jewel IP into the public domain or the payment of damages equating to a significant proportion of its value? still want to quibble over a few hundred Gs in RSUs? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803473) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:32 PM Author: Zippy public bath regret i begin to see why they are getting rid of u (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803481) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:35 PM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon you said negotiate so let’s get down to brass tacks. the expected litigation expenses alone in defending against the onslaught of claims would be 10-20x annually the entire value of my severance package. this is directly correlated to my value for the company - i keep them out of trouble ... or i don’t. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803505) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:55 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house I mean, you do what you want, but I can pretty much tell you that this is a great way to be escorted out by security, become labeled a "do not rehire", and have all future communications be in writing and formal.
Also, if you're anything like this IRL, I agree that it isn't surprising you're on a the chopping block. |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 11:50 PM Author: Floppy Sooty Shitlib Center For all this guy appears unhinged, you and the other GC asslicker ITT come across as complete losers. There is nothing honorable in A CORPORATE SEVERANCE POLICY. It is no great loss to get put on a DO NOT HIRE list for a crappy company that will keep him on the list until there's some reason they want to hire him. FWIW all the HR and legal employees I've seen treat employees shittily on behalf of the company, go on to be treated just as shittily very shortly thereafter. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37806140) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 12:24 AM Author: Zippy public bath regret this is tmf's identity dont be mean to him (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37806285) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 8:42 AM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house It isn't about honor, it is about not coming off as nuts in a fairly small group. The issue is that the expected result of that suggestion is pretty bad. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37806912) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 8:48 AM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon how is it nuts? in-house counsel’s role is to keep the company out of legal trouble. the premise of my negotiation is that if they terminate me, there’s a delta and i can actually attach some numbers to it.
unless they’re willing to put a bullet in my head, there’s no way they can prevent me from exercising my rights within the bounds of law and legal ethics, and they will end up holding the short end of the stick.
their move. |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 11:58 AM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house Yeah, this whole "I'm a hard man playing hardball" schtick comes off as unhinged. You're one of many paper-pushers in the company and you're getting laid off. Presumably, they offered you a standard package and that's all you're going to get. Attempts to threaten them into giving you more generally means they handle you in the way they handle similar people (which, isn't great). But you do you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37807858) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 8:51 AM Author: Violent razzmatazz roast beef cuckold i think the point here is not that we should all grovel before GC corporate tactics and established policies, but rather that the OP seems to misunderstand his position and what he can reasonably accomplish.
while layoffs suck and corporations are absolute faggot for dumping people and leaving them insufficient time to transition to something new, OP's proposed strategy of stomping his feet and nasally squealing "I'm a LAWYER, I'll SUE YOU (or make it easy for others to SUE YOU)" is very likely to be extremely counterproductive for him |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 8:53 AM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon even though the legal theory that would put the hurt to them is basically unassailable? they’re sitting ducks. knowing that, xo should be helping me play this hand since there are ways to do it that may or may not cross ethics boundaries.
i’m sure i’m not uniquely situated. as in-house you learn stuff about how the industry operates and are always balancing risk versus opportunity. there should be a playbook to give us negotiation leverage when we have the power to bend the cost curves of risk versus opportunity if we’re let go simply based on where we advise companies to focus their litigation strategies (topically) without outright breaching ethics boundaries. then it becomes a matter of game theory backward induction. |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 9:37 AM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house This. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37807081) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 1:39 PM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon not “i’ll sue you” but more like there are a bunch of companies out there that have valid legal claims against you totalling in the billions, and based on what i plan to do with my career if and only if you don’t keep me on, query whether you want to take the risk of those floodgates opening. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37808442) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 1:51 PM Author: Ebony heady resort So the company (that you really want to work for, and really believe in) potentially has billions of dollars in exposure, but you haven’t mentioned this anyone before? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37808532) |
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Date: February 20th, 2019 8:48 AM Author: opaque locus useless brakes why don't you just leave and sue the shit out of them (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37812458) |
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Date: February 20th, 2019 10:15 AM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house So you're threatening a client with using confidential information obtained while representing them, stating that you may offer to represent individuals and companies (direct conflicts) against them, and utilize that confidential information to advance your new client's claims against your original client if they don't pay you off? Do I have that correct? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37812765) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:36 PM Author: Bronze thirsty lay personal credit line sounds bulletproof, can't believe they don't want your brilliant legal mind on staff (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803518) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:40 PM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon GC went on a hiring binge with a bunch of cronies and won’t let any of them go. i’ve been with this company through 5 GCs. it’s politics more than substance. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803558) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:42 PM Author: Abnormal Cyan Parlour Community Account title? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803574) |
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Date: February 20th, 2019 8:46 AM Author: opaque locus useless brakes it worked for the fag in american beauty so who the fuck knows. give it a shot. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37812454) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:49 PM Author: Medicated Frum Foreskin at least out the practice area (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803609) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 4:54 PM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon generalist. i cover everything from govt compliance to business transactions to product development to procurement to sales / commercial transactions to IP. i’m involved in advising on every product line for every business unit based on my general legal knowledge and history with the company. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803644) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 5:13 PM Author: Zippy public bath regret why r they dumping u (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803795) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 6:05 PM Author: Ungodly sapphire casino background story for an in-house generalist you have displayed a stunning lack of understanding of even the most basic principles of corporate governance, employment law, contract law, legal ethics, negotiation, dispute resolution, and common business practices itt. but yeah, go ahead and let them know what they’ll be missing out on. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37804066) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 9:26 PM Author: Dashing Sex Offender THIS.
They are clearly terminating him because he sucks and they're just being nice by not calling it "for cause". LJL at him trying to extort them for being nice to him. |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 9:30 PM Author: Violent razzmatazz roast beef cuckold (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37805254) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 12:19 AM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon LEGAL ETHICS Y’ALL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37806269) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 8:43 AM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37806914) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 5:40 PM Author: provocative nofapping quadroon u sound like an insufferable faggot person and i hope all the bad things in life happen to you and only you (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37803938) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 6:00 PM Author: Dashing Sex Offender (OP's GC) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37804050) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 8:00 PM Author: judgmental principal's office pistol Funny how far on the xo totem pole in house has fallen in the past 5-10 years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37804741) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 9:31 PM Author: Violent razzmatazz roast beef cuckold Name the company so I can buy stock in them. They seem to be making good personnel decisions. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37805257) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 9:32 PM Author: Spectacular transparent temple fanboi In all seriousness, come out as gay (or reveal your disability if you have one) ASAP. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37805262) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 10:43 PM Author: Medicated Frum Foreskin This is a big xo meme and it is terrible advice. Irl it means they start looking at everything you do and "documenting your failure to meet expectations", followed by firing for cause. Don't go there unless you're desperate and have nothing to lose. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37805709) |
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Date: February 20th, 2019 8:50 AM Author: opaque locus useless brakes cr. the real move is to just periodically do some gay shit off and on throughout your time there so you have a believable story (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37812467) |
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Date: February 18th, 2019 11:52 PM Author: azure space You gotta fight for your right to party. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37806149) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 12:39 AM Author: Mahogany nowag LJL in-house is finished.
Corps were hiring armies of in-house to save on outside legal costs, but realized that the people who went in-house either aren't as good as biglaw, or aren't as hard working to do the heavy lifting, so they need biglaw anyway.
Funniest thing is, all these in-house bros started spotting a bunch of legal issues and problems that merely created MORE work for biglaw.
So bigcorps are left with even larger cost-centers, while paying EVEN MORE for biglaw.
Now the culling is beginning. The in-house gravy train is going to blow any minute now. |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 8:15 AM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon this is absolute bs. our outside counsel billings are the lowest they’ve ever been. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37806837) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 8:19 AM Author: garnet bisexual persian idiot Same with us. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37806843) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 8:39 AM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house Same. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37806909) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 3:11 PM Author: Dashing Sex Offender Same (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37808878) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 8:17 AM Author: Violent razzmatazz roast beef cuckold wishful thinking. in house is getting bigger than ever. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37806841) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 10:05 AM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house It is, and the conclusions are more that law firm costs need to be reduced rather than in-house costs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37807218) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 8:46 AM Author: provocative nofapping quadroon i'm not a lawyer but ur fellow board colleagues seem to disagree (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37806918) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 11:21 AM Author: Mahogany nowag They're in denial obviously. The great inhouse culling will commence (already has in several major companies) and biglaw will be faced with a deluge of pathetic inhouse job apps. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37807591) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 11:42 AM Author: mustard heaven dysfunction Lmao u have no clue. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37807737) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 11:43 AM Author: garnet bisexual persian idiot Odd since I have 3 companies trying to recruit me from my current in house gig. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37807749) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 11:59 AM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house Same. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37807875) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 1:45 PM Author: garnet bisexual persian idiot Really? nice, good luck if you want one of them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37808489) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 3:11 PM Author: Dashing Sex Offender Same (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37808880) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 12:02 PM Author: angry crawly library lmaono (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37807888) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 12:04 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house What could you possibly know about this? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37807906) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 1:48 PM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon this is the most out of touch post i’ve ever seen on xo. like orders of magnitude worse than Rudolph bets or “Hillary will win” threads. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37808519) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 12:07 PM Author: Smoky autistic senate generalized bond The in-house people I work with are uniformly either dumb or lazy. They need super simple concepts broken down to them and still don't understand. Have no idea what's market and constantly make off market asks. LOL at thinking they could ever repalce biglaw (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37807923) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 12:10 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house "OMG, I saw a STRAY COMMA from one just last week! They could NEVER replace me!" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37807947) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 1:27 PM Author: Impertinent Bearded Hell Dragon no it’s biglaw that is completely out of touch with “market,” how to balance risk versus opportunity, and lacking the detailed knowledge of the company’s vision, technology, product roadmaps, etc. necessary to execute upon deals efficiently.
what you think in-house attorneys are “leaving on the table” was actually the equilibrium result as a function of negotiation leverage. but go ahead and jack off to your 35-page NDAs thinking you have a value proposition. |
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Date: February 20th, 2019 8:51 AM Author: opaque locus useless brakes all of this is based on the premise that you need to be either smart or hard working to do mundane corporate legal shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37812472) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 1:19 PM Author: Chest-beating box office TY, this is one of the dumbest posts I have read here all month, and that's a high bar. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37808336) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 1:21 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37808353) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 11:55 AM Author: Passionate Stage If you are an at will employee, the market severance payment is zero.
Why do you feel entitled to money for being fired? |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 1:21 PM Author: Chest-beating box office (poor person) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37808348) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 1:23 PM Author: salmon therapy step-uncle's house Equally intelligent comment: "Because minimum wage is $7.25, or $15 in some localities per hour, the market for large law firms, in-house companies and other places hiring lawyers is that. After all, that is what is allowable by law." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37808366) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 2:20 PM Author: Passionate Stage "Nuthence value," the in-house flunkie who has never tried a case lisped. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37808666) |
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Date: February 19th, 2019 3:06 PM Author: Smoky autistic senate generalized bond (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4204303&forum_id=2#37808854) |