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The Incredible Shrinking Impeachment (xo WSJ

The Incredible Shrinking Impeachment The Democratic grounds...
marvelous school cafeteria
  12/12/19
WSJ is so outdated it feels like reading something from the ...
Vengeful quadroon principal's office
  12/12/19
fuck the dems, fuck the gop, fuck the constitution...fuck th...
self-absorbed excitant pocket flask
  12/12/19
...
topaz thriller casino trust fund
  12/12/19
...
crawly institution
  12/12/19
...
Purple Mad Cow Disease Partner
  12/12/19
Dumb take
buck-toothed mental disorder
  12/12/19
CR. WSJ is literally the last bastion of sane main stream jo...
beta sooty address marketing idea
  12/12/19
not picking on the wsj. Point is, sane appeals to rationalit...
Vengeful quadroon principal's office
  12/12/19
tough, but fair If Trump is Sulla so be it
beta sooty address marketing idea
  12/12/19
Bad comparison. Sulla was pretty competent
salmon insecure pozpig
  12/13/19
This is half right. To the young left, by any means necess...
Hot gas station
  12/12/19
Under 45 here. Still give a shit about non-insane things.
costumed azn milk
  12/13/19
...
Drab police squad cumskin
  12/12/19
...
rebellious chrome kitty stage
  12/13/19
Perfect.
lilac business firm
  12/12/19
...
blathering out-of-control theater
  12/12/19
trump will never be impeached now
crawly institution
  12/12/19
...
Khaki locale wrinkle
  12/12/19
...
Red Doctorate
  12/12/19
...
crystalline party of the first part
  12/12/19
Lol
amber feces
  12/12/19
this is the bulk of what makes the idiot dems look so stupid...
razzle spruce potus
  12/12/19
...
beta sooty address marketing idea
  12/12/19
so the level of corruption depends on its efficacy?
orange forum
  12/12/19
titcr. That's a really shitty argument. Dems are arguing tha...
mahogany soul-stirring mediation
  12/12/19
how is it to the detriment of the us to find out if a high r...
razzle spruce potus
  12/12/19
...
Hot gas station
  12/12/19
I'm not digging in to this silly deflection. My point is tha...
mahogany soul-stirring mediation
  12/12/19
Blown the fuck out and sprinting for hills
Hot gas station
  12/12/19
...
Arrogant Range
  12/12/19
...
Indigo tank
  12/13/19
...
metal supple stag film
  12/13/19
>> The legal argument for the dems' charge is not depe...
cordovan confused step-uncle's house
  12/12/19
Fair minded bort moderates know better than to dig into sill...
Fuchsia library
  12/12/19
What few of us are left
free-loading locus keepsake machete
  12/13/19
"I'm not digging in to this silly deflection" B...
Magenta irradiated degenerate jew
  12/13/19
Thank you fir trying to keep the ship from crashing into irr...
free-loading locus keepsake machete
  12/13/19
...
yapping wonderful coffee pot
  12/12/19
...
Purple Mad Cow Disease Partner
  12/12/19
...
sinister double fault organic girlfriend
  12/12/19
libs????
Smoky big alpha sex offender
  12/12/19
so cr. if Trump asked Ukraine to invent evidence against ...
lemon stage
  12/12/19
cr, and note that: 1. nobody is alleging Trump did anythi...
cordovan confused step-uncle's house
  12/12/19
Just more silly deflections, Trumptard
Fuchsia library
  12/12/19
None of you are even responding to what I said. It's a simpl...
mahogany soul-stirring mediation
  12/12/19
"Why won't you guys entertain my bushit premise?!?!&quo...
Magenta irradiated degenerate jew
  12/13/19
Lol. Only on xoxo is that even a valid attack. &ldquo...
free-loading locus keepsake machete
  12/13/19
Yeah, it's pointless. These guys can't see beyond some dumb ...
mahogany soul-stirring mediation
  12/13/19
...
lilac business firm
  12/12/19
corn pop was a bad dude
Dun Persian
  12/12/19
I'm not sure if it's more embarrassing for Trumpmos that the...
histrionic university
  12/13/19
Thanks for your input Pradeep
Hot gas station
  12/13/19
(guy who is too dumb to follow any of this closely)
histrionic university
  12/13/19
where is that coming from? Horowitz showed BARD that govern...
lemon stage
  12/13/19
Oh boohoo the guy who was already caught redhanded passing i...
histrionic university
  12/13/19
if you've been flaming, i admit you duped me. congrats. i...
lemon stage
  12/13/19
next how about this graf. remember as you read his incredulo...
lemon stage
  12/13/19
or consider this graf in light of what Horowitz proved about...
lemon stage
  12/13/19
consider how he treats what we now know were 4 corrupt FISA ...
lemon stage
  12/13/19
this part is lulsy too. that author cites the Reid conversat...
lemon stage
  12/13/19
180
free-loading locus keepsake machete
  12/13/19
...
Navy beady-eyed nowag codepig
  12/13/19
Every President also solicits actions from foreign leaders t...
Low-t masturbator
  12/13/19
"Dems are arguing that Trump crafted a foreign policy p...
costumed azn milk
  12/13/19
likewise, let's say the dems DO think it was purely personal...
cordovan confused step-uncle's house
  12/13/19
This is exactly what we would expect a Russian agent would s...
Fuchsia library
  12/13/19
Well, I think the Dems know this is going nowhere and want t...
costumed azn milk
  12/13/19
"I mean, if Trump legitimately believed (or even though...
mahogany soul-stirring mediation
  12/13/19
lol, this is deranged you said libs are arguing it was for ...
razzle spruce potus
  12/13/19
u idiots realize the point wasnt to do an actual fair invest...
vigorous theatre mother
  12/12/19
(dood who believes Adam Schitt's made-up retelling of the Tr...
yapping wonderful coffee pot
  12/12/19
Please point to a single thread where Trump Suppoters were e...
free-loading locus keepsake machete
  12/13/19
And also the whole Biden is corrupt point ....
deranged travel guidebook pit
  12/12/19
*mariah carey sings* All I want for Christmas is...Presiden...
sinister double fault organic girlfriend
  12/12/19
Cons: holy shit we love op-eds now
rose odious elastic band
  12/12/19
...
Aphrodisiac dilemma toaster
  12/13/19
...
topaz thriller casino trust fund
  12/13/19
key difference: that one's fact-based.
lemon stage
  12/13/19
LTM and Bart are correct and WSJ are 112iq polisci shitheads...
crawly institution
  12/12/19
TRUMP or a proxy should address the senate and detail all of...
deranged travel guidebook pit
  12/12/19
...
Low-t masturbator
  12/13/19


Poast new message in this thread



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Date: December 12th, 2019 11:44 AM
Author: marvelous school cafeteria

The Incredible Shrinking Impeachment

The Democratic grounds for ousting Trump are weak—and damaging to constitutional norms.

By The Editorial Board

Dec. 11, 2019 7:15 pm ET

Opinion: Democrats Shrink Impeachment to Two Weak Articles

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Opinion: Democrats Shrink Impeachment to Two Weak Articles

Opinion: Democrats Shrink Impeachment to Two Weak Articles

Bribery, extortion and other claims vanish as Democrats narrow their articles of impeachment and include no violations of law. Image: J. Scott Applewhite/AP

So that’s it? That’s all there is? After all the talk of obstruction of justice, collusion with Russia, bribery, extortion, profiting from the Presidency, and more, House Democrats have reduced their articles of impeachment against President Trump to two: abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. Honey, we shrunk the impeachment.

Democrats on the Judiciary Committee will vote as early as Thursday on the text of the two articles they unveiled Tuesday, and then they will rush it to the floor next week. It’s enough to suspect that Democrats understand they are offering the weakest case for impeachment since Andrew Johnson, that the public isn’t convinced, and so they simply want to get it over with.

***

At least Johnson was impeached for violating a specific statute, the Tenure of Office Act, by firing Edwin Stanton as Secretary of War. There was wide agreement that Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton violated criminal statutes. In this case Democrats don’t even try to allege a criminal act.

Democrats Shrink Their Case For Impeachment

SUBSCRIBE

Whatever happened to bribery and extortion? Democrats spent weeks talking them up as the crimes of Mr. Trump’s Ukraine interventions. They had turned to those words after focus groups with voters found them more compelling than “quid pro quo.” Yet suddenly they’re gone. Have Democrats concluded that Mr. Trump’s actions aren’t illegal under statutes that have specific meaning?

Democrats have retreated instead to charge “abuse of power,” a phrase general enough for anything Congress wants to stuff into it. They don’t even pretend any more to prove a quid pro quo. Instead they assert that Mr. Trump, in his phone call with Ukraine’s president, “solicited the interference of a foreign government” in the 2020 election “in pursuit of personal political benefit.” They also assert that this “compromised the national security of the United States and undermined the integrity of the United States democratic process.”

Their problem is that Mr. Trump didn’t withhold military aid to Ukraine, and even if he had he would have merely been returning to Barack Obama’s policy of denying lethal aid. How would that have jeopardized national security? Every President also solicits actions from foreign leaders that he hopes will help him politically at home.

We don’t condone Mr. Trump’s mention of Joe Biden in his call to Ukraine’s President, which was far from perfect and reflects his often bad judgment. But “abuse of power” on this evidence is a new and low standard for impeachment that will come back to haunt future Presidents of all parties.

As for corrupting the 2020 election, even if Ukraine had announced an investigation into Joe and Hunter Biden, Mr. Trump couldn’t know how effective it would be, how long it would take, or whether it might even exonerate them. The election is still a year away. If the mere announcement of a foreign government’s investigation into corruption can poison a U.S. election, then American democracy must be weaker than even its enemies think.

The second Democratic article is weaker in that it amounts to impeaching Mr. Trump because he is resisting their subpoenas. “Without lawful cause or excuse, President Trump directed Executive Branch agencies, offices and officials not to comply with those subpoenas,” the article charges.

His lawful cause is defending his presidential powers under the Constitution. Every modern President has to some extent or another resisted Congressional or special-counsel subpoenas. Nixon and Mr. Clinton did until they lost at the Supreme Court. House Democrats are refusing even to fight in court, claiming impeachment gives them plenary power to see all documents and any witnesses they want.

This ignores that the Constitution stipulates co-equal branches that each have the right to defend their powers. If Democrats are right in their claim, then every President essentially works for Congress. We should skip elections and let Congress choose the President.

Democrats also claim the emergency of time, and as usual Rep. Adam Schiff puts this case in the least credible way. “The argument ‘why don’t you just wait?’ amounts to this: Why don’t you just let [Mr. Trump] cheat in one more election? Why not let him cheat just one more time?,” Mr. Schiff told the press as the articles were unveiled.

But Mr. Trump didn’t cheat to win in 2016, as Robert Mueller’s Russia collusion investigation demonstrated after two years of looking. As for 2020, the Constitution includes no clause for pre-emptive impeachment to prevent acts that a President might commit.

***

Democrats wrap these charges in high-toned rhetoric about “this solemn day” and quotes from Benjamin Franklin. But they are essentially impeaching Mr. Trump because they despise him and the way he governs.

This is the classic standard of “maladministration,” which the Founders explicitly considered but excluded from the Constitution as grounds for impeachment. They did so because they feared that partisan Congresses would too easily impeach Presidents of the opposite political faction on this subjective basis, rather than for serious offenses.

In their wisdom, the American people seem to have figured all this out. Despite one-sided lobbying by the impeachment press, the polls show that a majority opposes removing Mr. Trump from office. This may be the real explanation behind the Democratic move to shrink impeachment. Democrats now want a fast and furious vote to satisfy their most anti-Trump partisans, dump the mess on the Senate, and campaign on something else.

They shouldn’t get off that easy. By defining impeachment down, they are turning what should be a rare and extraordinary constitutional remedy into a routine tool of partisan warfare. They are harming constitutional norms, as the liberals like to say.

Americans will decide in 11 months whether Mr. Trump deserves to remain in office. But they should also keep the impeachment vote very much in mind when they decide whether Democrats deserve to keep the House.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254253)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 11:47 AM
Author: Vengeful quadroon principal's office

WSJ is so outdated it feels like reading something from the 18th C.

Boomers will be dead soon and no one cares about "norms" or precedent or using "reasons" to prosecute or defend Trump. Team blue has the votes or they don't, fuck the other side by any means available.

Red or blue fascism is coming the moment the last WSJ-reading boomer feels a pang in his chest. No one gives a fuck about this nonsense

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254267)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 11:48 AM
Author: self-absorbed excitant pocket flask

fuck the dems, fuck the gop, fuck the constitution...fuck the media

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254274)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 11:59 AM
Author: topaz thriller casino trust fund



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254354)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 11:55 AM
Author: crawly institution



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254320)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 11:59 AM
Author: Purple Mad Cow Disease Partner



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254358)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 12:24 PM
Author: buck-toothed mental disorder

Dumb take

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254578)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 12:26 PM
Author: beta sooty address marketing idea

CR. WSJ is literally the last bastion of sane main stream journalism in this country

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254587)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 12:41 PM
Author: Vengeful quadroon principal's office

not picking on the wsj. Point is, sane appeals to rationality and found-father precedent have lost all cogency to anyone under 45. The left abandoned giving a fuck about what the FFs would think two generations ago, and zoomer right-wingers arent inhibited by "constitutional" concerns either.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254672)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 12:43 PM
Author: beta sooty address marketing idea

tough, but fair

If Trump is Sulla so be it

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254683)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 2:12 PM
Author: salmon insecure pozpig

Bad comparison. Sulla was pretty competent

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39260556)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 1:02 PM
Author: Hot gas station

This is half right. To the young left, by any means necessary is their modus operandi. The young right are still softbatch cucks.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254770)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 3:41 PM
Author: costumed azn milk

Under 45 here. Still give a shit about non-insane things.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261178)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 12:27 PM
Author: Drab police squad cumskin



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254592)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 12:57 PM
Author: rebellious chrome kitty stage



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39260032)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 11:49 AM
Author: lilac business firm

Perfect.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254280)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 11:54 AM
Author: blathering out-of-control theater



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254313)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 11:55 AM
Author: crawly institution

trump will never be impeached now

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254322)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 11:58 AM
Author: Khaki locale wrinkle



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254349)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 12:03 PM
Author: Red Doctorate



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254385)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 12:26 PM
Author: crystalline party of the first part



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254591)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 12:28 PM
Author: amber feces

Lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254601)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 12:36 PM
Author: razzle spruce potus

this is the bulk of what makes the idiot dems look so stupid

"As for corrupting the 2020 election, even if Ukraine had announced an investigation into Joe and Hunter Biden, Mr. Trump couldn’t know how effective it would be, how long it would take, or whether it might even exonerate them. The election is still a year away. If the mere announcement of a foreign government’s investigation into corruption can poison a U.S. election, then American democracy must be weaker than even its enemies think. "

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254651)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 12:38 PM
Author: beta sooty address marketing idea



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254660)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 12:45 PM
Author: orange forum

so the level of corruption depends on its efficacy?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254691)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 12:55 PM
Author: mahogany soul-stirring mediation

titcr. That's a really shitty argument. Dems are arguing that Trump crafted a foreign policy position purely for personal purposes (and to the detriment of the US). Whether Trump's political instincts are good or not shouldn't matter.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254747)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 1:00 PM
Author: razzle spruce potus

how is it to the detriment of the us to find out if a high ranking politician is a dirty piece of shit? your side has spent millions of dollars trying in vain to prove that exact point

was that to benefit the usa or the dnc? same fucking thing, except biden's corruption is staring everyone in the face and trump's is nonexistent even after lying and cheating to get spy warrants on him

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254767)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 1:03 PM
Author: Hot gas station



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254774)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 1:04 PM
Author: mahogany soul-stirring mediation

I'm not digging in to this silly deflection. My point is that the paragraph you cited in the article is a shitty argument. The legal argument for the dems' charge is not dependent on the effectiveness of Trump's political strategy.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254782)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 1:12 PM
Author: Hot gas station

Blown the fuck out and sprinting for hills

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254813)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 6:29 PM
Author: Arrogant Range



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39256393)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 1:08 PM
Author: Indigo tank



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39260081)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 1:41 PM
Author: metal supple stag film



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39260301)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 1:13 PM
Author: cordovan confused step-uncle's house

>> The legal argument for the dems' charge is not dependent on the effectiveness of Trump's political strategy. <<

cr, I believe that in legal circles it's referred to as "Orange Man Bad"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254817)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 1:38 PM
Author: Fuchsia library

Fair minded bort moderates know better than to dig into silly deflections

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254946)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 5:12 PM
Author: free-loading locus keepsake machete

What few of us are left

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261588)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 1:05 PM
Author: Magenta irradiated degenerate jew

"I'm not digging in to this silly deflection"

Because it absolutely gaped you

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39260067)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 5:11 PM
Author: free-loading locus keepsake machete

Thank you fir trying to keep the ship from crashing into irrelevance.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261586)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 1:11 PM
Author: yapping wonderful coffee pot



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254805)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 1:14 PM
Author: Purple Mad Cow Disease Partner



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254824)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 1:18 PM
Author: sinister double fault organic girlfriend



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254841)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 1:19 PM
Author: Smoky big alpha sex offender

libs????

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254844)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 1:35 PM
Author: lemon stage

so cr.

if Trump asked Ukraine to invent evidence against Joe Biden, that would be a problem. but if Trump asks Ukraine to investigate incredibly shitty conduct by Hunter Biden, that benefits the US.

recall that Horowitz just emphasized how low the bar is for DOJ to open an investigation: it takes only "articulable facts." here Trump has motherfucking video tape of Joe Biden boasting about shadiness. it's in the US best interests to know what happened.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254935)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 1:40 PM
Author: cordovan confused step-uncle's house

cr, and note that:

1. nobody is alleging Trump did anything with respect to any other candidates, even the frontrunners. he only asked them to look into it wrt Hunter and Joe, and there honestly is a reasonable suspicion of corruption there

2. nobody on the dem side is digging into the benefits they thought this provided Trump. like, wouldn't you call witnesses or otherwise provide evidence that (i) Trump considered Biden to be the likely nominee, (ii) Trump had specific concerns related to Biden as an opponent, (iii) showed how Trump thought this would help him in an election outside of any ACTUAL corruption that might have been going on?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254956)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 1:44 PM
Author: Fuchsia library

Just more silly deflections, Trumptard

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254974)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 4:50 PM
Author: mahogany soul-stirring mediation

None of you are even responding to what I said. It's a simple LSAT LR prompt and you guys are choosing the answer that goes way off tangent. The WSJ's argument in that paragraph is awful, even if you think impeachment is improper. It's Xo 2019

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39255868)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 1:09 PM
Author: Magenta irradiated degenerate jew

"Why won't you guys entertain my bushit premise?!?!"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39260087)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 5:13 PM
Author: free-loading locus keepsake machete

Lol.

Only on xoxo is that even a valid attack.

“WHY WON’T YOU ENGAFE ME SHITLIB!?!”

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261593)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 5:22 PM
Author: mahogany soul-stirring mediation

Yeah, it's pointless. These guys can't see beyond some dumb binary political argument. I don't even think impeachment is a good idea. I'm just pointing out that that paragraph is an awful argument.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261619)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 1:44 PM
Author: lilac business firm



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254976)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 5:07 PM
Author: Dun Persian

corn pop was a bad dude

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39255957)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 1:20 PM
Author: histrionic university

I'm not sure if it's more embarrassing for Trumpmos that they earnestly defend Shokin as a corruption fighting do-gooder that was unfairly railroaded (by his own government, and 30+ other governments, all of whom amply demonstrated that he was a nakedly corrupt piece of shit who didn't show the slightest interest in investigating Burisma or anyone else), or that they want to hold up a dumbass like Carter Page as an innocent American citizen who had his civil rights abused and pretend he is not a Putinite who reflexively favors Russia over the U.S., and who would crawl over broken glass to get his hands on Russian oil money. The entire premise of the GOP's defenses of Trump in both Ukraine and Mueller boil down to "our side's too dumb to follow this very closely and notice that we're defending a parade of relentless scumbags in order to protect Trump."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39260165)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 1:54 PM
Author: Hot gas station

Thanks for your input Pradeep

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39260367)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 2:01 PM
Author: histrionic university

(guy who is too dumb to follow any of this closely)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39260437)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 2:05 PM
Author: lemon stage

where is that coming from? Horowitz showed BARD that government lawyers lied and lied and lied and lied about Page -- including altering documents -- in secret papers filed with a secret court to get the right to spy on Page. how is that not having his civil rights abused?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39260491)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 2:22 PM
Author: histrionic university

Oh boohoo the guy who was already caught redhanded passing information to Russian intelligence in 2014 had the FBI gunning hard for him after he spent the next two years continuing to relentlessly shill for Putin and then tried to loop the Trump campaign in on his corruption-seeking trip to Russia in July 2016.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2018/02/05/why_carter_page_was_worth_watching_433391.html

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39260662)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 3:22 PM
Author: lemon stage

if you've been flaming, i admit you duped me. congrats.

if you're serious, i hoap you realize that you've linked to the type of typical media bullshit that Horowitz has blown of the water.

that author, Luke Harding, has made a career out of pushing the most extreme form of "Trump colluded!" and "Trump's a Russian agent!" bullshit. Harding's credibility should have been zero all along, and should have been over at least by when the Mueller Report came out. now that the Horowitz Report is out, Harding should be ashamed to show his face in public and The Guardian should issue an apology and retraction.

to start at the top, it trashes the famous Nunes Memo -- when the Horowitz report massively validated that memo and proved that Schiff's memo was just lies.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261092)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 3:26 PM
Author: lemon stage

next how about this graf. remember as you read his incredulous descriptoin of how Page was described in the Nunes Memo that Horowitz was going to validate Nunes on this point.

"Most remarkable was the unlikely hero at the center of this national row, Carter Page. The memo alleged that the bureau bugged his communications after deliberately duping the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. Not only that but using supposedly flawed material supplied by Christopher Steele, the former British intelligence officer whose dossier accused Trump of consorting with Russian president and former KGB operative Vladimir Putin. But who exactly was Carter Page? And were there, in fact, genuine reasons why the FBI might have ground for suspecting him?"

take another look at that sentence:

"The memo alleged that the bureau bugged his communications after deliberately duping the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court."

Nunes was right. That author was a bootlicker.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261111)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 3:30 PM
Author: lemon stage

or consider this graf in light of what Horowitz proved about the uselessness of Steele's information:

"According to the Steele dossier —vehemently disputed by Page and subsequently rubbished by Nunes, and Republicans —the real purpose of Page’s trip was clandestine. He had come to meet with the Kremlin. And in particular with Igor Sechin. Sechin was a former spy and, more importantly, someone who commanded Putin’s absolute confidence. He was in effect Russia’s second most powerful official, its de facto deputy leader."



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261127)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 3:33 PM
Author: lemon stage

consider how he treats what we now know were 4 corrupt FISA apps. he holds them up as unimpeachable proof that Page did the things we now know he did not do:

The FBI presented its evidence before a secret tribunal— the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance, or FISA, court, which handles sensitive national security cases. The bureau argued that there were strong grounds to believe that Page was acting as a Russian agent. The judge agreed. From this point on, the FBI was able to access Page’s electronic communications. An initial ninety-day warrant was later renewed.

As the Wall Street Journal reported on Friday, Steele’s research formed only part of the application. Four separate federal judges approved these renewals. All were appointed by Republican presidents.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261150)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 3:34 PM
Author: lemon stage

this part is lulsy too. that author cites the Reid conversation and the Yahoo article as if they are independent of the shitty Steele dossier being pushed by Fusion/Steele. it was Steele himself who planted the Yahoo story to independently verify -- Steele himself.

-------

In the classified briefing to congressional leaders in late August 2016 Page’s name figured prominently. The CIA and FBI were sifting through a mound of intercept material featuring Page, much of it “Russians talking to Russians,” according to one former National Security Council member. When Senate minority leader Harry Reid wrote to Comey in early autumn, he cited “disturbing” contacts between a Trump adviser and “high-ranking sanctioned individuals.” That was Page. And Sechin.

These embarrassing details surfaced in a report by Yahoo! News. Within hours, the Trump campaign had disavowed Page—casting him out as a nobody who had exaggerated his links to Trump. All of which made his subsequent rehabilitation by Nunes more bizarre. Page exited the campaign in late September. It was an inglorious end, and his troubles were just beginning. Steele’s Rosneft source was right. In early December—less than a month after Trump won the White House—Rosneft announced it was selling 19.5 percent of its stock. This was one of the biggest privatizations since the 1990s and, on the face of it, a vote of confidence in the Russian economy.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261160)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 5:14 PM
Author: free-loading locus keepsake machete

180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261594)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 3:27 PM
Author: Navy beady-eyed nowag codepig



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261115)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 1:05 PM
Author: Low-t masturbator

Every President also solicits actions from foreign leaders that he hopes will help him politically at home.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39260065)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 3:45 PM
Author: costumed azn milk

"Dems are arguing that Trump crafted a foreign policy position purely for personal purposes (and to the detriment of the US)."

I have a question for you about this. Doesn't this framing depend on (a) an assumption that nothing at all nefarious went on in relation to Ukraine, Biden, or the 2016 election, and/or (b) that Trump did not legitimately believe that anything nefarious went on?

I mean, if Trump legitimately believed (or even thought it was a realistic possibility) that Biden used his power as VP to force Ukraine to help his son, or that some sort of election interference happened in relation to a server in Ukraine, then asking for an investigation is not "purely personal purposes" right?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261188)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 3:54 PM
Author: cordovan confused step-uncle's house

likewise, let's say the dems DO think it was purely personal and to attack Biden. then, as i said above, wouldn't they want to call witnesses to testify to that fact, such as the president's concern for Biden as a candidate, that he believed Biden would be the eventual nominee, how an "investigation" would help, timing for the election, etc.? Like, if this was Trump's plan, surely there would be something to it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261224)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 4:09 PM
Author: Fuchsia library

This is exactly what we would expect a Russian agent would say

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261291)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 4:40 PM
Author: costumed azn milk

Well, I think the Dems know this is going nowhere and want to get it over with (regardless of whether they believe in the underlying charge)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261455)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 5:04 PM
Author: mahogany soul-stirring mediation

"I mean, if Trump legitimately believed (or even thought it was a realistic possibility) that Biden used his power as VP to force Ukraine to help his son, or that some sort of election interference happened in relation to a server in Ukraine, then asking for an investigation is not "purely personal purposes" right?"

There's testimony that all the administration wanted was an announcement of an investigation, which tends to show that the scheme to withhold aid was merely to benefit his campaign and in no way related to rooting out corruption as a matter of foreign policy. I think the emissaries used to carry out this scheme also evidence the personal purpose behind the scheme. I don't think impeachment is worth it, only because Congress is not a court. There's no detailed process or precedent for impeachment or any judge to ensure that these rules are followed. So the process devolves into a pointless political food fight.

But again, my post above has nothing to do with that. I responded above to point out how shitty that paragraph in the WSJ op-ed is. Whether you think a defendant's criminal conduct would have benefited him in the long run or have been likely to succeed does not bear on whether the conduct was criminal or not. It's an awful defense.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261559)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 5:45 PM
Author: razzle spruce potus

lol, this is deranged

you said libs are arguing it was for purely personal purposes and then you use arguments such as

"all the administration wanted was an announcement of an investigation", lol bullshit. they wanted the investigation and the announcement. so what?

actually, intent is often an extremely good defense to a criminal defense.

you lame ass dems are trying to exclude all other reasonable possibilities as if removing a president is supposed to occur at reasonable suspicion/rational basis level of scrutiny with the accuser getting all benefit of the doubt. stupid.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261745)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 4:44 PM
Author: vigorous theatre mother

u idiots realize the point wasnt to do an actual fair investigation into the bidens, it was to say u are doing one then drum up some bullshit allegations to hurt biden even more

u guys are really this dumb?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39255850)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 4:57 PM
Author: yapping wonderful coffee pot

(dood who believes Adam Schitt's made-up retelling of the Trump-Ukraine call)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39255895)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 5:17 PM
Author: free-loading locus keepsake machete

Please point to a single thread where Trump Suppoters were ever logical or even rational?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261602)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 5:06 PM
Author: deranged travel guidebook pit

And also the whole Biden is corrupt point ....

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39255947)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 1:17 PM
Author: sinister double fault organic girlfriend

*mariah carey sings*

All I want for Christmas is...President Pence

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254835)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 1:40 PM
Author: rose odious elastic band

Cons: holy shit we love op-eds now

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39254957)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 12:56 PM
Author: Aphrodisiac dilemma toaster



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39260024)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 4:11 PM
Author: topaz thriller casino trust fund



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261299)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 4:24 PM
Author: lemon stage

key difference: that one's fact-based.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39261370)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 4:34 PM
Author: crawly institution

LTM and Bart are correct and WSJ are 112iq polisci shitheads. sorry

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39255799)



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Date: December 12th, 2019 5:09 PM
Author: deranged travel guidebook pit

TRUMP or a proxy should address the senate and detail all of Biden’s corruption.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39255968)



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Date: December 13th, 2019 1:07 PM
Author: Low-t masturbator



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4399882&forum_id=2#39260076)