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Ppl who oppose industry bailouts - permanent unemployment for workers?
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:15 PM Author: judgmental sticky selfie mediation the point of these loans and grants is so that they dont shut down and close their business which will collapse the economy and also workers will lose their jobs permanently
lets say the stimulus bill had nothing for small business or major industries then lot of companies will close permanently. then what? just pay laid off workers every month for 2 years while they waste away at their homes in a slowed down economy? |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 8:40 PM Author: glittery boiling water All the restaurant workers are illegal aliens anyway and need to go back. I'm fine with most shithold restaurants going out of business too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39863641) |
Date: March 25th, 2020 6:17 PM Author: charismatic knife no problem with aid but it gotta come with strings baby
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:18 PM Author: autistic center Just do keep the reigns of "Economy" in the hands of the same cabal of uninventive ivy league business school blowhards who regularly get us into these messes time and time again before looking to OUR tax dollars to bail their shitty decisions and general unpreparedness out Andrew Jackson is rolling around in his grave right now |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:19 PM Author: judgmental sticky selfie mediation tell me what strings will you add
right now the bill has
1) no stock buybacks/dividends till duration of loan plus 1 year
2) no major layoffs for 90 days plus restrictions offshoring/outsourcing for large companies that get loans from federal govt
3) small businesses get paid based on not laying off employees
so even if this is not perfect why are you acting as if they are writing a blank check. spend too much time on reddit? |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:26 PM Author: autistic center *dull clinking noise of a can being kicked down the road* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39862741) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:30 PM Author: sienna parlour regret they should be required to give equity in their companies to the state in exchange for their monopoly money
we're clearly at the point where we are a de facto centrally planned economy. why not just make it official, but allow the organ of the state to control economic policy/decisions, rather than unelected financiers and bankers? |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:35 PM Author: judgmental sticky selfie mediation why equity? its not a grant. its a loan. we will get paid back with interest
do u want biden and his type of ppl running major sections of the industry if trump loses in 2020. then you will cry about how they mandated that felons shouldnt be discriminated blah blah. u guys are reddit level producing knee jerk reactions - " just let them go bankrupt, just take over the equity"
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Date: March 25th, 2020 7:30 PM Author: sienna parlour regret i mean this is just an argument for "we should make the government not suck"
democracy is retarded and our current federal government is awful, but at least we can still somewhat "elect" the government. just voluntarily bending over and turning over all control of the economy to finance oligarchs is really pathetic and isn't going to actually make things better either |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:19 PM Author: Odious Henna Site yang bucks or bust (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39862670) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:20 PM Author: Disrespectful locale personal credit line ljl at trickle down apes propping up failed businesses because they're scared of losing all the bullshit jobs they provide
UBI is the only solution. we don't need thousands of compliance monkeys, comma checking lawyers, etc etc. the need for labor is nil and will keep decreasing. |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:22 PM Author: razzmatazz box office Something something "free market," something something "bootstraps."
Nobody made Delta blow all its profits juicing its stock to enrich its executives, directors, and large shareholders. If Delta can't run a fucking airline responsibly it can go into bankruptcy like any other company. |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:25 PM Author: judgmental sticky selfie mediation ok so what about 85,000 delta employees? most of these will be permafucked especially older flight attendants who worked 15+ years at delta. nobodys hiring them
its probably cheaper to throw a few billion at delta and keep them employed - these ppl will be productive, better self esteem etc than pay unemployment plus medicaid for at least 2 years for most of them. do the math
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:26 PM Author: Sepia Comical Menage Cr zombie economy NOW (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39862747) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:28 PM Author: Disrespectful locale personal credit line (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39862765) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:27 PM Author: Odious Henna Site fuck them. zoomers can take their jobs in the new modern airlines. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39862757) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:28 PM Author: Disrespectful locale personal credit line "we have to bail out companies run by people that loot all the profits and tax cuts to keep all of their wagecucks employed"
i can't believe so many people are on board funneling money into mismanaged companies because they're scared of the short term impact of them going bankrupt. how about we just have decent social safety nets or ubi to take care of those employees in the transition? the demand for airtravel isn't going to go away just because delta does. let them sell of their assets in bankruptcy and let someone else get a crack at running an airline. |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:33 PM Author: judgmental sticky selfie mediation they werent mismanaged unless you think company should have hoarded billions for some kind of global pandemic in future. delta is widely considered one of the best run airlines in the world with the strongest balance sheet. are u saying companies should plan for 99% drop in demand and keep reserves for that constantly?
delta had close to 10B which is sufficient reserve for any forseeable circumstance except maybe a global pandemic that has completely shutdown all air travel and a pandemic we have not hit since 1918 |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:42 PM Author: Disrespectful locale personal credit line "we could have never have seen this coming". except it happened in 2001 and 2008 too. it seems like once a decade there is an economic crisis, and every time people say "well, it was just impossible to predict".
i'd have some sympathy for the airlines if they saved ANYTHING AT ALL. but just look at their balance sheets and how much they've spent on buybacks. after 12 years of travel shrews shoving money down their throats and tax breaks.
this is not a situation where they behaved prudently and got fucked by a black swan. |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:49 PM Author: judgmental sticky selfie mediation dood this is not an american problem. lufthansa, BA, singapore airlines etc etc are all getting bailed out. they dont have buy backs like american airlines do. nobody in their right mind is going to keep a reserve for global pandemic just like we didn't install cockpit doors and full body scanning before 9/11
this seems to be just angry nihilist response. yes american corporations and airlines suck (reducing seat pitch, reducing service etc) but i think airlines in 2020 are more deserving of our sympathy/support than banks in 2008 because they had NOTHING to do with the virus problem that has brought them to knees. I can understand your anger in 2008 because banks literally blew up the economy and got bailed out. that sucked. its not the same now
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:50 PM Author: naked haunting property I think that list of bailouts is fake news. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39862950) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 7:01 PM Author: Blathering Depressive BA has been told not to expect a bailout but they Brit government is covering salaries for three months for everyone.
Lufthansa is asking for a loan.
AirFrance KLM is 28 percent owned by France/Netherlands.
Singapore is owned by sovereign wealth fund. Middle East airlines are states owned too.
Don’t see anything about Japan, but they bailed out JAL during ITE
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-k-balks-at-wholesale-airlines-bailout-clouding-global-recovery-efforts-11585076488 |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 8:24 PM Author: naked haunting property You're right about Air France at least. I'm not sure if Luftahansa will actually get their loan.
It all stinks with me. Feels like a bastardization of the free market and a great way to create really perverse incentives that we already suffer from. Why not chase huge earnings for next quarter at the expense of long term growth if it guarantees you a golden parachute and the company will be bailed out anyway if things go tits up? |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:56 PM Author: Disrespectful locale personal credit line in 2008 the financial system was going to collapse but for a bailout. although we've let them consolidate and become even bigger and more entrenched ljl at this fraud country. they should be broken up.
as i said, i would be more sympathetic if they did anything other than spending all profits on stock buybacks while continuing to leverage themselves on cheap debt. if they showed an ounce of prudence i would be sympathetic. but they were all greedy as fuck because everyone in the industry was doing the same thing and they (accurately) predicted that if there was some industry-crushing event that uncle sam would bail them out. |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 7:01 PM Author: judgmental sticky selfie mediation the 3 major airlines had close to 10B each in cash and liquid credit. 99.9999% of the time this should be enough for months of localized disruption which is what industry has seen before. 99% collapse in demand across the world has not been seen before
your assertion that they didnt have any cash saved is completely wrong. like i said United/Delta/AA had the best balance sheet at least compared to say non-american airlines |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:56 PM Author: charismatic knife (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39862989) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:28 PM Author: razzmatazz box office They can work for post-bankruptcy Delta, whatever airline buys Delta's operation, another airline, or another company. Why do I as a taxpayer have to cover for Delta executives making bad decisions? And if I'm paying either way (eg, unemployment), then fuck those executives and their fucking equity should go to zero. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39862769) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:45 PM Author: naked haunting property (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39862908) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:57 PM Author: charismatic knife (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39863003) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:57 PM Author: autistic center (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39863004) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 8:45 PM Author: glittery boiling water to be fair those old hags need to fuck off anyway (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39863687) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:29 PM Author: Diverse soggy associate forum it's gonna be just like 2008... the higher-ups will pocket all the cash and do mass layoffs anyway. and they should all be hanged. |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:30 PM Author: Disrespectful locale personal credit line i don't really even blame the businesses, they're just acting in self interest. the real villains are those continually bailing them out even though the same thing keeps happening. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39862784) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:33 PM Author: Diverse soggy associate forum i know. the GOP literally CRAMS money into their mouths... a lot of these people admit the bailouts have been excessively lush. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39862804) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:39 PM Author: Disrespectful locale personal credit line imagine if you saved a bunch of cash from record profits 2008-2020 while your competitors leveraged themselves to the max and outgrew you. and then when the chickens came home to roost the leveraged companies got bailouts.
why would any rational company behave differently? it's not fair for them to foresake growth or lining their own pockets if other didn't and got bailed out anyway. |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:46 PM Author: naked haunting property Oh and regulations to stop any of this?
Fucking socialism, faggot. |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:59 PM Author: Disrespectful locale personal credit line financial regulation = socialism
literally giving failed businesses taxpayer money = capitalism |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 8:24 PM Author: naked haunting property absolutely cr. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39863528) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:31 PM Author: Sepia Comical Menage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39862793) |
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Date: March 26th, 2020 5:06 AM Author: Chocolate boyish mexican (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39865936) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 6:44 PM Author: naked haunting property Cool that america prefers bailing out corps on an ad hoc basis in an inefficient fashion that enriches only rent seekers instead of providing a basic social safety net. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39862904) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 7:03 PM Author: Exhilarant cyan senate Agreed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39863035) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 7:35 PM Author: Dark Persian Chad that is pretty cool (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39863245) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 9:57 PM Author: impressive set (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39864124) |
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Date: March 26th, 2020 4:45 AM Author: self-centered spruce idiot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39865917) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 7:31 PM Author: cerebral hairless piazza Bail the company out after executing the executives (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39863210) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 7:40 PM Author: Maroon international law enforcement agency point Why don't the executives pitch in and bail their company out? They should have money saved up for a rainy day. Maybe the company can get a loan or ask their parents for money (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39863272) |
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Date: March 25th, 2020 8:47 PM Author: autistic center (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4487433&forum_id=2#39863701) |
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Date: March 26th, 2020 4:50 AM Author: Filthy brethren Does anyone think airlines are coming back any time soon?
Even if they do, why do they need more new planes? Especially one that is unsafe.
Does anyone think dining is coming back anytime soon (an industry where 90% fail anyway)?
I have no problem with bailouts in principle, but they should be debt or otherwise senior to existing equity and be on terms that are fair to the country. |