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Layoffs are needed in biglaw

I'm sure everyone has seen the Kirkland Houston email that h...
''''''''''''''''''''''
  05/22/20
FUCK OFF.
Rudolph
  05/22/20
true
TRUMP TEAM SIX
  05/22/20
Support staff in biglaw make 100k and have it easier than ju...
ARE Reptile
  05/22/20
This. I don’t think OP has ever worked in biglaw. The...
Fyre festival founder
  05/22/20
lol no they don't and most paralegals only make "well o...
""'""'''''""
  05/22/20
You are a MAF shitlawguru who couldn’t land the biglaw...
Fyre festival founder
  05/22/20
no you are. you probably went to a non T-14 as well. LJL @...
""'""'''''""
  05/22/20
T6 class of 2014, copped the biglaw dream, u mad bro?
Fyre festival founder
  05/22/20
LOL outself as shitlawyer litigator. Most of the v20 pays a ...
.....;;,,.........;.;.;.;.,;,;,;.;.;,;
  05/22/20
i know a v10 paralegal who cracked 80k her first year (i thi...
bond
  05/22/20
This is dumb. the more obvious issue is secretaries who mak...
""'""'''''""
  05/22/20
I can vouch for secretaries making 70-100k doing nothing.
Noobling
  05/22/20
cr, even before considering how much less they're doing duri...
commacommadotdotcomma
  05/22/20
Well that's part of the problem with biglaw, though. If you ...
macguffin
  05/22/20
1) quickly answering a question but you still bill a decent ...
Jazzzy Altidore
  05/23/20
you seem really confused man. lawyers don't post here anymo...
""'""'''''""
  05/22/20
There’s no way you work in big law.
Jazzzy Altidore
  05/23/20
O wow cool poast
leolenin
  05/22/20
If biglaw had a shitlaw base people would just do shitlaw. T...
ARE Reptile
  05/22/20
Except for prestige obsessed shrews.
'"'"'"''"
  05/22/20
Wrong. There are lots of mid levels in midlaw doing nearly b...
Snake Plissken
  05/22/20
Night and day bro. Midlaw clients are insurance companies an...
ARE Reptile
  05/22/20
This may be true for trans bros, but not all for Litigators....
\'\'\'\'\"\'\"\'\'\"\'\'\'
  05/22/20
Lmao lit is bullshit. That’s not law.
protest queen (male)
  05/23/20
Hours & demands placed on biglaw lit. associates are in ...
vonoskar
  05/23/20
...
howie
  05/23/20
3am in Dubai is 7pm in NY
Cinco de Mayo Clinic
  05/23/20
Let me offer a different perspective: rough numbers a modal ...
vonoskar
  05/22/20
...
potluck
  05/22/20
This is not wrong. A senior associate at $850/hour (which is...
macguffin
  05/22/20
V10 can charge associates out at $850+ an hour. No one else ...
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,....,:,..,:.:.,:.::,
  05/22/20
V50 bill in this range. An 8th year associate bills 800-900...
Jazzzy Altidore
  05/23/20
The average V25 associate is NOT bringing in 2MM. Maybe 1.2M...
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,....,:,..,:.:.,:.::,
  05/22/20
I'm giving an approximate modal range across the seniority t...
vonoskar
  05/23/20
if we're going to make a marxist argument about capital vs l...
InTheZone
  05/23/20
Think of my poast more in the descriptive vein than a prescr...
vonoskar
  05/23/20
ty; understood. and let me say it is a pleasure to read you...
InTheZone
  05/23/20
tl;dr
Morbidly Obese Sex Robot
  05/22/20
bonus tiering is fine, but it would have to be spelled out a...
CapTTTainFalcon
  05/22/20
Isn't this what Quinn does?
''''''''''''''''''''''
  05/22/20
Jones Gay
CapTTTainFalcon
  05/22/20
...
vonoskar
  05/22/20
Quinn still has a market base.
ARE Reptile
  05/22/20
Which you don't get until 2200 hrs
Morbidly Obese Sex Robot
  05/22/20
Link to this Kirkland email?
@therealpeternorth
  05/22/20
https://www.law.com/americanlawyer/2020/05/07/this-isnt-a-gr...
real, historical person
  05/22/20
I don't see the connection between the Kirkland email and th...
..,..,..,...,,,...,..,.,,.,..,.,,
  05/22/20
Read between the lines, friend. The email seems to be intend...
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,....,:,..,:.:.,:.::,
  05/22/20
I’m sure this guy’s a prick but at least he&rsqu...
ChaDollahE
  05/22/20
Business is booming so comp is too high? wut?
:D
  05/22/20
I read it as the firm is busy but associates hours are low a...
..,..,..,...,,,...,..,.,,.,..,.,,
  05/22/20
...
vonoskar
  05/22/20
oh ok
:D
  05/22/20
...
Jazzzy Altidore
  05/23/20
LJL fuck this guy
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,....,:,..,:.:.,:.::,
  05/22/20
*LA Law theme tune*
honiara
  05/22/20
I want you to stun everyone one day with an unannounced mult...
vonoskar
  05/22/20
...
Harmon Killebrew
  05/22/20
...
bowlcut autist
  05/22/20
...
potluck
  05/22/20
...
Gen. Elba (Space Force Lib-Command)
  05/22/20
...
Here's Why
  05/23/20
...
vonoskar
  05/23/20
K what’s severance gonna look like
'""''''"
  05/22/20
1) LOL at in-house being more secure, especially now 2) &...
Neal V. Stephens 410 Alabama Dr. Herndon VA 20170
  05/22/20
In-house is definitely more secure if you're not at uber, ai...
ESL TM..,..;;.
  05/23/20
...
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,....,:,..,:.:.,:.::,
  05/23/20
OP (barely) touched on the real problem, which is law school...
""'""'''''""
  05/22/20
Yes, when we went from 160 to 180 then 190, the raise ostens...
CapTTTainFalcon
  05/22/20
Theres plenty of RSFs or people with yuge scholarships
''''''''''''''''''''''
  05/22/20
Not that many.
ESL TM..,..;;.
  05/23/20
T14 schools have an at least semi-legitimate argument of &qu...
vonoskar
  05/22/20
"he rest are arguably committing fraud on the marketpla...
Gen. Elba (Space Force Lib-Command)
  05/22/20
make it harder to take out student loans, and you'll force t...
..,..,..,...,,,...,..,.,,.,..,.,,
  05/22/20
...
""'""'''''""
  05/22/20
Government subsidization of student loans is the worst thing...
Here's Why
  05/23/20
*college and graduate students
..,..,..,...,,,...,..,.,,.,..,.,,
  05/23/20
I don’t think firms GAF what law schools are charging ...
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,....,:,..,:.:.,:.::,
  05/22/20
...
:D
  05/22/20
The flaw in your argument is that they'll pay people off who...
Hasidic Woman Performing Deviant Hava Nagila
  05/22/20
why did I respond to this gay copypasta fml
CapTTTainFalcon
  05/22/20
https://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&am...
vonoskar
  05/22/20
I am so fucking gay please fuck my black box daddy
CapTTTainFalcon
  05/22/20
Is this the NYT reporter?
My real dad left at 11, brother.
  05/22/20
Some big law firms tried alternative/black box comp models a...
LathamTouchedMe
  05/22/20
The most successful firm of the last 15 years is Kirkland. ...
Drunkard
  05/23/20
What is Kirkland, V20?
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,....,:,..,:.:.,:.::,
  05/23/20
(MAF Simpson associate)
vonoskar
  05/23/20
This is probably the dumbest thing I’ve ever read on t...
I really dont care do u?
  05/23/20
it's the secretaries that need to be purged. I think this s...
Earl (The Goat) Manigoat
  05/23/20
There's lots of talk of reducing our secretarial pool going ...
Gitmo Detainee tearing up his HOPE poster
  05/23/20


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:23 PM
Author: ''''''''''''''''''''''

I'm sure everyone has seen the Kirkland Houston email that has been floating around and I am going to take a controversial view here - but I agree.

The biglaw compensation scale makes job security a risk that employees take on. For things to change, biglaw salaries should drop significantly and move to a bonus scale. Instead of 190 + 10, the scale should look more like 120 + 120. There is no reason why a services driven profession like biglaw should have such high base salaries and lockstep bonuses. High salaries and small bonuses makes it extremely difficult for services businesses to adapt because they have such high compensation costs.

This board vilifies biglaw firms that lay off lawyers and no offer summers - this is the business model, this is what we signed up for, this is why we push for 200k a year associate salaries. Entering biglaw is a risk/reward, all who are associates now and saw what happened in the GFC. For many, you are 3-5 years post undergrad, taking in a 190k + base salary, this is higher than the total comp many people who are company level directors (not board) at massive companies with 15+ years of experience.

For lawyers who are four to five years into their career, you are pushing VP level total compensation numbers, and most people won't even make it there.

For firms that no - offer summers due to work product - this should be the business model and not an aberration. 75-90% offer rates should be the norm, not 100%.

For biglaw firms that lay-off lawyers due to business reasons, it is what it is, this is part of the reason of why lawyers earn such high base salaries.

If you want a lessened job security risk there, take a comp hit, move to a safer legal/compliance role with the government/in-house. Loans is usually the protest here, and yes I get it, but that was a decision you made to take on when you went to law school/didn't work through school/didn't take the slightly lower ranked school for more money. Most T14 grads can probably get full rides at T25s. If you have less than 6 figures in loans, most in house legal and fed jobs can service those.

For biglaw firms that pay peanuts to their staff (paralegals, legal assistants) and conduct layoffs/furloughs/cuts there first. That is shit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256408)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:24 PM
Author: Rudolph

FUCK OFF.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256413)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:25 PM
Author: TRUMP TEAM SIX (Trump Team 6)

true

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256421)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:30 PM
Author: ARE Reptile

Support staff in biglaw make 100k and have it easier than junior lawyers because they are more marketable and can job hop on a dime. A skilled para with S&C on her resume needs like a week to get another para job.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256460)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 2:17 PM
Author: Fyre festival founder

This. I don’t think OP has ever worked in biglaw. The paralegals make well over 100k and assistants who do jack shit make like 70-80k for doing literally nothing all day.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257168)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 2:34 PM
Author: ""'""'''''""

lol no they don't and most paralegals only make "well over 100k" if they are billing a ton of hours. you clearly haven't worked in biglaw.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257269)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 2:41 PM
Author: Fyre festival founder

You are a MAF shitlawguru who couldn’t land the biglaw dream as revealed by your lack of knowledge of support staff salaries

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257328)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 2:56 PM
Author: ""'""'''''""

no you are. you probably went to a non T-14 as well. LJL @ ur life.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257422)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 3:09 PM
Author: Fyre festival founder

T6 class of 2014, copped the biglaw dream, u mad bro?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257508)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 3:57 PM
Author: .....;;,,.........;.;.;.;.,;,;,;.;.;,;


LOL outself as shitlawyer litigator. Most of the v20 pays a median of over 100k to their paralegals with more than 3 years of experience, at least in corporate. I worked with a paralegal at my v10 who was like the paralegal queen bee and made a 3rd year associate's all in comp. I worked with another who was a first year and made six figures bc she had an MBA from an ok program.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257748)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 4:07 PM
Author: bond

i know a v10 paralegal who cracked 80k her first year (i think she got overtime), 100k isn't unreasonable at all

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257800)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 2:34 PM
Author: ""'""'''''""

This is dumb. the more obvious issue is secretaries who make 70k and do literally nothing. paralegals are fine.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257273)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 9:13 PM
Author: Noobling

I can vouch for secretaries making 70-100k doing nothing.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40259609)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 9:18 PM
Author: commacommadotdotcomma

cr, even before considering how much less they're doing during this work from home situation

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40259637)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 9:18 PM
Author: macguffin (an apparatus for trapping lions in the Scottish Highlands)

Well that's part of the problem with biglaw, though. If you can quickly answer a question, you can't bill as much, even i it's more efficient for everyone involved.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40259642)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 23rd, 2020 1:00 PM
Author: Jazzzy Altidore

1) quickly answering a question but you still bill a decent amount more for it; 2) frees you up to take on another project and bill for that too or go home for dinner.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40261950)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 2:33 PM
Author: ""'""'''''""

you seem really confused man. lawyers don't post here anymore.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257263)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 23rd, 2020 12:59 PM
Author: Jazzzy Altidore

There’s no way you work in big law.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40261943)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:26 PM
Author: leolenin

O wow cool poast

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256425)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:28 PM
Author: ARE Reptile

If biglaw had a shitlaw base people would just do shitlaw. The quality of life would make it not worth it if you have to deal with the vaguories of bonuses. Midlevels with actual skills wont tolerate low base comp, period.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256446)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:30 PM
Author: '"'"'"''"

Except for prestige obsessed shrews.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256454)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:38 PM
Author: Snake Plissken

Wrong. There are lots of mid levels in midlaw doing nearly biglaw hours for like 140-180k

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256513)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:42 PM
Author: ARE Reptile

Night and day bro. Midlaw clients are insurance companies and not billionaires sending emails at 3am while snorting coke off a hooker in Dhubai. You are not on 24/7 in midlaw the way biglaw bros are. The work just isnt that demanding.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256536)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 11:42 PM
Author: \'\'\'\'\"\'\"\'\'\"\'\'\'


This may be true for trans bros, but not all for Litigators. I’ve worked biglaw and midlaw lit. Hours and demands are essentially the same for associates. You make less in midlaw. However, it’s easier to cop partnership in midlaw and make that $800k working less hours.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40260258)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 23rd, 2020 2:31 AM
Author: protest queen (male)

Lmao lit is bullshit. That’s not law.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40260716)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 23rd, 2020 7:34 AM
Author: vonoskar

Hours & demands placed on biglaw lit. associates are in a totally different universe vs. midlaw, come on.

"Jason, need you to come back into the office Friday after your AM golf round to get that pro hac petition in so we can add ourselves to the Florida case."

'Will do.'

*mentally equates self with dead-eyed Latham fourth year billing 2,500 hours from an MDL war room outside of Minneapolis*

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40260949)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 23rd, 2020 1:05 PM
Author: howie



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40261964)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 23rd, 2020 9:47 PM
Author: Cinco de Mayo Clinic

3am in Dubai is 7pm in NY

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40263830)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:33 PM
Author: vonoskar

Let me offer a different perspective: rough numbers a modal average V25 associate is bringing in between $1-$2m revenue per year, depending on senority, and they’re being compensated between $200k - $500k all-in—their share of the pie grows a bit as they get more senior because they're more valuable and also there are fewer of them. The lion’s share of the gross profit is going up to the partnership, which is well aware of this unequal dynamic and is increasingly exploiting it to drive profitability through further leverage. Because they can.

The lack of flexibility has nothing to do with associate salaries and everything to do with a business model designed to drive and extract maximum profit to a small “owner” class at the expense of everyone else.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256478)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 2:38 PM
Author: potluck



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257293)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 9:18 PM
Author: macguffin (an apparatus for trapping lions in the Scottish Highlands)

This is not wrong. A senior associate at $850/hour (which is not insanely high) is $1.7mm for 2k hours. They're maybe making $500k on the high end. Even including overhead, that's a huge upside to partners.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40259639)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 11:36 PM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,....,:,..,:.:.,:.::,


V10 can charge associates out at $850+ an hour. No one else can. Rates are lower and are also heavily discounted.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40260236)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 23rd, 2020 9:36 PM
Author: Jazzzy Altidore

V50 bill in this range. An 8th year associate bills 800-900.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40263788)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 11:34 PM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,....,:,..,:.:.,:.::,


The average V25 associate is NOT bringing in 2MM. Maybe 1.2MM, and probably more like 1MM. Cost to the firm for each associate is at least 500k (salary, benefits, taxes, overhead). Senior associate 800k.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40260231)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 23rd, 2020 6:51 AM
Author: vonoskar

I'm giving an approximate modal range across the seniority track, so for that $2m figure think your typical 8th/9th/10th year within the V25 or maybe V10, doing his 2100, 2200 hours, some rack rate, some discount, it washes to around 2m, especially on the transactional side (which demonstrates why firms are so eager to have senior attorneys stay around in perpetuity without giving them access to profits; they're at the point of maximum profitability).

Also, whenever these conversations manage to escape from the interior corridors of Skadden to a public forum, biglaw talking heads will overstate the overhead actually attributable to associates to try to elicit sympathy in the discourse or at least justify the compensation:revenue ratio. If anything, the trend in overhead over the past ten years has been downward, with significant support staff reductions even in the V10, fairly stable real estate, counterbalanced by some uptick in technology cost.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40260928)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 23rd, 2020 2:15 AM
Author: InTheZone

if we're going to make a marxist argument about capital vs labor, i'm not sure that biglaw associates are the most sympathetic victims. i mean yeah that's totally what's going on, i just don't really understand why you would expect it to work differently

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40260697)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 23rd, 2020 7:06 AM
Author: vonoskar

Think of my poast more in the descriptive vein than a prescriptive call to marxist arms; I just think OP's (copied) poast fundamentally misunderstands the economic dynamics at play in a major law firm--it's a "thank you sir, can I have another" shout from some junior associate at Goodwin or Jones Day who probably feels great about going from growing up in a quiet, twinkling lights from ranches spread around curving streets & a mysterious government research facility in the distance outburb of Boise, Idaho to making $250k! and having a shiny apartment overlooking a park in Boston; he doesn't quite yet grasp the massive inequality dynamic he's placed himself into or the degree to which all of this is driven at the end of the day to maximize profitability for a small segment of the firm, exhibit 1 being his notion that "if only they made more of our compensation variable and back-loaded and let go more people when needed, our fair firm would have more economic flexibility, friends!"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40260940)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 23rd, 2020 8:41 AM
Author: InTheZone

ty; understood. and let me say it is a pleasure to read your posts. inside every lawyer is the wreck of a poet (is not charitable enough -- you're doing it).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40261030)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:33 PM
Author: Morbidly Obese Sex Robot

tl;dr

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256480)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:34 PM
Author: CapTTTainFalcon

bonus tiering is fine, but it would have to be spelled out and enforced by official policy

For instance, 100% bonus at 2100 hours, 95% at 2000, 90% at 1900, 85% at 1800, 80% at 1700, 75% at 1600, and 50% if below 1600

If you leave it at the discretion of practice group partners, they'll make all associates work 2100 and give 0% bonuses.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256486)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:35 PM
Author: ''''''''''''''''''''''

Isn't this what Quinn does?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256489)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:35 PM
Author: CapTTTainFalcon

Jones Gay

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256497)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:36 PM
Author: vonoskar



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256502)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:36 PM
Author: ARE Reptile

Quinn still has a market base.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256500)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 2:12 PM
Author: Morbidly Obese Sex Robot

Which you don't get until 2200 hrs

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257142)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:39 PM
Author: @therealpeternorth (i choose violence )

Link to this Kirkland email?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256518)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:42 PM
Author: real, historical person (fonzie)

https://www.law.com/americanlawyer/2020/05/07/this-isnt-a-gravy-train-the-curious-case-of-the-kirkland-email/

Folks,

Just hung up with some of the restructuring SPs. There are some huge cases coming in and they have no staffing. Thanks to everyone for stepping up so far on cases.

For those that aren’t fully occupied right now, and are not on a single restructuring matter because they have been hiding, let me spell out reality for you real quick. I am seeing a ton of money being left on the table on the matters coming in and I have seen all of your hours today (from most junior associate through SP). Am pretty shocked and the math is not going to work out well for you at the end of the year.

Bacon and Larson will continue to staff folks below SP over the coming days/weeks, I will be calling SPs personally. Given the market you should feel extremely lucky to be in an institution with too much work. That doesn’t mean you have an annuity here. If you get a call or don’t have enough to do, I suggest you grab a restructuring assignment ASAP and roll up your sleeves. If it was me in 2008 I would be pre-emptively calling Doug or Adam after you read through the end of this note. This isn’t a gravy train where you can just chill and be along for the ride.

Andy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256534)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:56 PM
Author: ..,..,..,...,,,...,..,.,,.,..,.,, (🥛)


I don't see the connection between the Kirkland email and the OP - OP is talking about who should bear the risk when work dries up, employees or owners (it is always ends up being the employees). The Kirkland email isn't about work drying up, it seems to be about partners having trouble getting associates to work on projects even though everyone's utilization is shit.

I agree with Kirkland but not necessarily OP.

If your hours are shit right now, you better not be ducking work - if you get a call to work on something, the answer should be thank you sir, can I have another - this goes for downturns and upturns in the economy.

If your hours are shit and you can't get work because the firm doesn't have any, it is understandable for associates to expect the firm to be a little forgiving.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256624)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 11:38 PM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,....,:,..,:.:.,:.::,


Read between the lines, friend. The email seems to be intended to drive up billings and it has the effect of encouraging associates to pad their hours.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40260243)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 2:32 PM
Author: ChaDollahE

I’m sure this guy’s a prick but at least he’s honest.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257257)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 2:40 PM
Author: :D (classical education at home -- Bauer. 2000 IU/day d3.)

Business is booming so comp is too high? wut?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257314)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 2:54 PM
Author: ..,..,..,...,,,...,..,.,,.,..,.,, (🥛)


I read it as the firm is busy but associates hours are low and he thinks its because everyone is treating the lockdown as a vacation

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257407)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 2:56 PM
Author: vonoskar



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257424)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 3:06 PM
Author: :D (classical education at home -- Bauer. 2000 IU/day d3.)

oh ok

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257486)



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Date: May 23rd, 2020 3:15 AM
Author: Jazzzy Altidore



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40260777)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 11:37 PM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,....,:,..,:.:.,:.::,


LJL fuck this guy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40260241)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:43 PM
Author: honiara

*LA Law theme tune*

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256543)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:44 PM
Author: vonoskar

I want you to stun everyone one day with an unannounced multi-paragraph trenchant, on-topic analysis, well reasoned & measured, responsive while also challenging preconceptions and expanding perspectives on the issue, with generous secondary source references

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256552)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 3:05 PM
Author: Harmon Killebrew



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257477)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 4:05 PM
Author: bowlcut autist



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257790)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 4:12 PM
Author: potluck



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257825)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 4:19 PM
Author: Gen. Elba (Space Force Lib-Command)



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257865)



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Date: May 23rd, 2020 2:57 AM
Author: Here's Why



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40260764)



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Date: May 23rd, 2020 6:52 AM
Author: vonoskar



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40260929)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:46 PM
Author: '""''''"

K what’s severance gonna look like

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256561)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 12:49 PM
Author: Neal V. Stephens 410 Alabama Dr. Herndon VA 20170

1) LOL at in-house being more secure, especially now

2) "you should have gone to a T25 with more money" is great but ignores that these top firms don't interview at those schools. law is always a crapshoot. your chances of hitting the jackpot are always going to be higher being median at a T14 then top 20% at a T25, or worse yet, in a situation like now where there are no grades and no bar exam to cull the herd. it's a great time to be a chill bro hustler who maybe wouldn't have had top grades but now can coast on a pass/fail and do a good interview.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40256578)



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Date: May 23rd, 2020 2:39 AM
Author: ESL TM..,..;;. (🦈)

In-house is definitely more secure if you're not at uber, airbnb, an airline, or something else getting killed right now.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40260730)



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Date: May 23rd, 2020 12:43 PM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,....,:,..,:.:.,:.::,




(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40261882)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 2:38 PM
Author: ""'""'''''""

OP (barely) touched on the real problem, which is law schools overcharging students more and more. They do this, then BIGLAW responds with salary increases, then law schools charge more. It's a vicious cycle and the blame is almost entirely on greedy law schools using it as a cash cow for other departments (like med school) which send people to more secure professions anyways.

If students were coming out with 100k in debt rather than 300k in debt, this thread wouldn't be necessary.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257295)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 2:41 PM
Author: CapTTTainFalcon

Yes, when we went from 160 to 180 then 190, the raise ostensibly was to account for rising cost of living. Suddenly and simultaneously, the total cost of attendance for law school rose by 30K.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257327)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 2:42 PM
Author: ''''''''''''''''''''''

Theres plenty of RSFs or people with yuge scholarships

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257332)



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Date: May 23rd, 2020 5:13 PM
Author: ESL TM..,..;;. (🦈)

Not that many.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40262812)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 2:48 PM
Author: vonoskar

T14 schools have an at least semi-legitimate argument of "profits are trending up in biglaw, associate compensation is responding, our degree gives you a reasonable or better shot at biglaw, we're charging commensurately with that opportunity." The rest are arguably committing fraud on the marketplace charging 40k, 50k, 60k to some turnip truck done good Tulsa grad who's going to end up as a staff attorney in a county assessor's office making 55k for the rest of his short life.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257376)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 4:20 PM
Author: Gen. Elba (Space Force Lib-Command)

"he rest are arguably committing fraud on the marketplace charging 40k, 50k, 60k to some turnip truck done good Tulsa grad who's going to end up as a staff attorney in a county assessor's office making 55k for the rest of his short life."

MODS! VONOSKAR IS OUTTING!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257877)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 2:55 PM
Author: ..,..,..,...,,,...,..,.,,.,..,.,, (🥛)


make it harder to take out student loans, and you'll force the schools to lower tuition or see reduced enrollment

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257409)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 2:57 PM
Author: ""'""'''''""



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257428)



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Date: May 23rd, 2020 2:58 AM
Author: Here's Why

Government subsidization of student loans is the worst thing that ever happened to law students

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40260766)



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Date: May 23rd, 2020 12:35 PM
Author: ..,..,..,...,,,...,..,.,,.,..,.,, (🥛)


*college and graduate students

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40261850)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 11:40 PM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,....,:,..,:.:.,:.::,


I don’t think firms GAF what law schools are charging for tuition. It’s completion for the best students and In particular for decent URMs.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40260251)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 2:42 PM
Author: :D (classical education at home -- Bauer. 2000 IU/day d3.)



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257330)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 2:48 PM
Author: Hasidic Woman Performing Deviant Hava Nagila (High Constitutional Moment)

The flaw in your argument is that they'll pay people off who are billing 2000 and are highly profitable, because they know they can dump that guys hours on someone else, who will now go from 2300 to 2600.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257377)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 3:06 PM
Author: CapTTTainFalcon

why did I respond to this gay copypasta fml

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257485)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 3:11 PM
Author: vonoskar

https://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=305905

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257529)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 4:04 PM
Author: CapTTTainFalcon

I am so fucking gay please fuck my black box daddy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40257770)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 9:18 PM
Author: My real dad left at 11, brother. (Because he hated me)

Is this the NYT reporter?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40259641)



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Date: May 22nd, 2020 11:53 PM
Author: LathamTouchedMe

Some big law firms tried alternative/black box comp models after the ‘08 crash. It didn’t work that well. They are/were seen as a lot less attractive to students and laterals. Top firms set comp scales to attract the best. And the best don’t want variable salaries. Lower ranked firms either follow suit or fall behind. I think ultimately the poster above has it right about debt and tuition. School is too expensive for most young lawyers to choose “flexible” firms over the ones guaranteeing most of the comp.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40260308)



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Date: May 23rd, 2020 2:31 AM
Author: Drunkard (In sum, this is a disease of the elderly, sick and poor)

The most successful firm of the last 15 years is Kirkland. Above market variable comp, little to no Shitlib work/life balance, almost everyone who survives makes fake partner, pays big money to rainmaker laterals, poaches good junior partners from V10, built an excellent NY office while top NY firms stagnated in everything but PPP and RPL.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40260719)



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Date: May 23rd, 2020 1:01 PM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,....,:,..,:.:.,:.::,


What is Kirkland, V20?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40261953)



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Date: May 23rd, 2020 1:18 PM
Author: vonoskar

(MAF Simpson associate)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40261985)



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Date: May 23rd, 2020 2:25 AM
Author: I really dont care do u?

This is probably the dumbest thing I’ve ever read on this board, and that’s saying a lot.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40260711)



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Date: May 23rd, 2020 5:19 PM
Author: Earl (The Goat) Manigoat (earl)

it's the secretaries that need to be purged. I think this situation has made people realize how worthless they are.

At least the associates are able to work from home.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40262838)



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Date: May 23rd, 2020 9:46 PM
Author: Gitmo Detainee tearing up his HOPE poster (Tax survivor)

There's lots of talk of reducing our secretarial pool going forward. Right now the plan isn't to let any go but just not replace them as they leave.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4539995&forum_id=2#40263821)