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Poast new message in this thread
Date: July 3rd, 2020 2:31 PM Author: Comical yellow weed whacker generalized bond (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40541733) |
Date: July 3rd, 2020 2:33 PM Author: Chartreuse spot juggernaut the funniest thing about all this is this new left is based on 3 outdated philosophies - postwar critical theory, the linguistic turn, and postmodernism. really funny to watch these dummies struggle through these theories (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40541741) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 2:33 PM Author: Comical yellow weed whacker generalized bond (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40541746) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 2:34 PM Author: Chartreuse spot juggernaut why? if you have any confidence in the banality and ultimately the futility of these theories, which you should, its like watching a bad TV show rerun. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40541754) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 2:37 PM Author: Comical yellow weed whacker generalized bond (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40541762) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 2:38 PM Author: Chartreuse spot juggernaut yeah granted but even fascist Europe didnt last that long (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40541767) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 2:43 PM Author: Comical yellow weed whacker generalized bond (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40541793) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 2:45 PM Author: Chartreuse spot juggernaut keep your head down and just try to make some money (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40541801) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 2:58 PM Author: Comical yellow weed whacker generalized bond (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40541871) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 3:03 PM Author: Arousing house-broken field background story womp womp (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40541899) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 3:03 PM Author: Chartreuse spot juggernaut (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40541901) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 3:34 PM Author: Soul-stirring Swollen Toaster (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542060) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 2:50 PM Author: brindle kink-friendly principal's office organic girlfriend Antonio Gramschi believed that the path to victory was to play the long game and win over the academy professor by professor. You can point to the banality of these theories but you can't deny they have accumulated an underestimated amount of power. They touch every facet of society now. They may be in the minority but their power is outsized and it's spreading. And people don't feel like they can stand up to it anymore. It's becoming a boa constrictor on freedom and you can't fight back. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40541826) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 2:51 PM Author: Chartreuse spot juggernaut anyone with a political strategy has already lost (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40541836) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 2:56 PM Author: brindle kink-friendly principal's office organic girlfriend I heard one analyst say that no one gets into postmodernism because of the logic. They get into it because of the feels, and they stick around because the academic support structure. He said don't debate them on the facts because they're not fact people they're feeling people. If they were fact people they would have already gone into a more challenging field. These are all washouts from harder disciplines. They amass power by using words as weapons of emotions. No one ever used the terms 'black bodies' before George Floyd. But it's trying to paint a picture of terror and despair. They prey on goodwill and the inner drive to do good and to be viewed as a good person. In order to fight back you have to understand where they're coming from. Robin DeAngilo is a Marxist revolutionary who's only goal is to tear down society. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40541864) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 3:02 PM Author: Chartreuse spot juggernaut if you read the postmodernists and critical theorists, all of them admit to the farcical nature of reality, their work is all literature, drama and showmanship. At the heart of it is a performative dialectic meant to be truth revealing - the truth is not in the claims to oppression, subjugation and power dynamics themselves, but in the thoughts that their dramatic juxtapositions of concepts give way to. the dummies that read these works and take one side of the dialectic literally become pawns in a social theater production that will eventually give way to truth through performance, provided their dialectical opposite is also represented. that's why these theorists weren't political - they already knew the truth, and now they're recruiting the underclass to perform the dialectic for the rest of humanity. very scary the way these puppet masters pull these sorts of strings. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40541893) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 3:16 PM Author: gay nudist menage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40541967) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 3:18 PM Author: brindle kink-friendly principal's office organic girlfriend Agreed. It's extremely obvious that these people already 'know' the truth and are just looking for signs of it. They have already proposed Truth, Justice, and Reconciliation Commissions in Congress. If you read through the proposal it reads like a Maoist how-to tease confessions out of a population. Everyone is complicit, and the degree to which you can demonstrate you understand and agree if equal to your citizen score. Postmodernism is just Marxism repackaged in a new box. It's the same shit decade after decade after decade of frustrated people realizing if they get together they can break stuff, and wielding human emotion is their tool. Looks like they've successfully bent the entire corporate world to their will already. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40541973) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 3:29 PM Author: Chartreuse spot juggernaut that's what's baffling about these critical schools in america. critical theorists at the same time
(1) see enlightenment instrumentalism towards a pre-defined unity - e.g. wealth generation / capitalism - as the cause of human marginalization - e.g. black oppression; and
(2) themselves posit a pre-defined unity - e.g.social justice - as a means of obtaining oppressive power for themselves.
I can't imagine this actually goes anywhere, because (1) the hypocrisy is so transparent, and (2) a proper understanding of cultural dialectic demands a competing counter-narrative - which currently doesn't exist - to be fruitful. |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 3:45 PM Author: brindle kink-friendly principal's office organic girlfriend No revolutionary ever stopped because they didn't know what they were going to replace the system with once they tore it down (hint: it's tyranny). Not even hypocrisy will stop a good communist. And if you're worried about a counter narrative, trust me, they're gonna come up with one and force it on us. Just wait. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542126) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 4:13 PM Author: Chartreuse spot juggernaut This isn’t something “they” can just make up. There is a correct counter narrative that needs to be articulated for the dialectic to be successful. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542286) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 4:26 PM Author: brindle kink-friendly principal's office organic girlfriend (Guy who thinks libs are following some detailed blueprint set in motion by some gay Frenchmen from the 60s)
Spoiler alert, they're opportunists. Opportunists who are not bright enough to set anything complex in motion. They picked and chose ideas from disparate schools slapped them together and took advantage of the moment.
If the postmodernists were so smart they should have predicted society's counter-reaction to academia being overrun by militant social Marxists and their dialect should read as a prediction of what they should expect to encounter and egg them on. To say this is all pedantic is rhetorical at this point. I'm sorry they're not correctly executing the master plan.
Anyway, since they already know the truth why do they even need to fulfill the prophecy? This is all fun and games until they bring out the gibets. |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 4:48 PM Author: Chartreuse spot juggernaut they are opportunists executing one half of the plan of critical theorists.
now that their thesis has entered public discourse, we need to form the proper response/antithesis which, according to the same theories that formulated the thesis, is a new mythology to combat the enlightenment.
this has to be performed on stage in a collective human awakening because we are embodied and very few people can understand abstract ideas.
and if the thesis is an enlightened justice scheme, the response must be a mythological achievement narrative |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 5:04 PM Author: brindle kink-friendly principal's office organic girlfriend I'm bringing awareness. What else does the achievement narrative entail? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542517) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 5:05 PM Author: Chartreuse spot juggernaut we need to all get classics degrees and fortify academia (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542522) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 5:11 PM Author: brindle kink-friendly principal's office organic girlfriend You almost lost me, but then, it got so weird it roped me back in. So if the intellectual class doubles down on combating social justice within the academy, by ostensibly earning classics degrees and repopulating the ranks at institutions, then there will be two competing narratives, the struggle from which will result in the end game of these pomo philosophers where the world is a stage and everyone is a chess piece in this unfolding which will result in a brand new society? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542538) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 5:27 PM Author: Chartreuse spot juggernaut i think i need to change my take. I'm (now) not saying we need to get classics degrees to form the correct on-stage antithesis, rather, when the thesis is sufficiently elaborated, its inaccuracy will give way to the epiphany that there are answers in myth. those who have gone back to myth already understand the result of the critique. now its just making its way down the ladder. that's why the loud critical voices are all dumb - the message took longer to get to them. the intellectual movement is already over (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542596) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 5:35 PM Author: brindle kink-friendly principal's office organic girlfriend In this case, is the social justice movement the inaccurate critique? What myth have those in the know gone back to? Is myth a repudiation of facts, logic, science etc?
The fact that the intellectual movement is already over does that contribute to how academia has become self selecting for those who already agree with the myth? Is the result the echo chamber we see today because everyone on this plan decide it was the truth a long time ago?
Who should I read for the clearest picture of this? |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 5:40 PM Author: Chartreuse spot juggernaut >> In this case, is the social justice movement the inaccurate critique
Yes, necessary but ultimately inaccurate critique
>> The fact that the intellectual movement is already over does that contribute to how academia has become self selecting for those who already agree with the myth?
No, the reason academia is filled with SJW is because our academics aren't bright enough to be on the leading edge of this - they are still stuck in the embodied dialectical movement because they're dumb
>> Who should I read for the clearest picture of this?
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/adorno/#5
E.g. pg 43 (64 pdf) "The antireason of totalitarian capitalism, whose technique of satisfying needs, in their objectified form determined by domination, makes the satisfaction of needs impossible and tends toward the extermination of humanity-this antireason appears prototypically in the hero who escapes the sacrifice by sacrificing himself."
which is why SJW's are both batshit insane and not even real critical theorists. "Give me gay/black/trans rights" is an attempt to satisfy a need in an objectified form and is impossible. |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 5:55 PM Author: brindle kink-friendly principal's office organic girlfriend Gotcha. So it's bastardized critical theory. I'm just having a hard time understanding what this transcendent enlightenment myth is. It seems so vague. Almost sounds religious like Buddhist escape from the cycle of reincarnation. I don't know what they're after. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542727) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 5:58 PM Author: Chartreuse spot juggernaut it's a literalization of the performative negative dialectic that *is* critical theory
The myth is what emerges when you engage in the negative dialectic
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 6:17 PM Author: brindle kink-friendly principal's office organic girlfriend Can't wait. Thank you for your service. I can't say my life has improved but I did learn something the relevance of which remains to be seen. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542828) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 6:17 PM Author: Chartreuse spot juggernaut (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542834) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 6:30 PM Author: Comical yellow weed whacker generalized bond (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542899) |
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Date: July 4th, 2020 12:08 PM Author: Chartreuse spot juggernaut The mental state produced by reading Adorno is so trivial compared to the state produced by reading Tillich it’s almost laughable (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40546042) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 2:54 PM Author: Comical yellow weed whacker generalized bond (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40541852) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 2:54 PM Author: Chartreuse spot juggernaut (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40541856) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 3:50 PM Author: appetizing sable dilemma kitty (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542146) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 3:53 PM Author: brindle kink-friendly principal's office organic girlfriend They weeded out everyone who didn't agree. Even moderate liberal professors have to backtrack and apologize just to make a statement like hey guy maybe we shouldn't turn this institution into 1984. They weed out conservative students let alone faculty. So the conversation within the walls becomes between the far left and the center left. Didn't take much to start weeding those voices out too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542160) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 4:08 PM Author: very tactful rigor Interestingly, tech founders have potentially more power than any of those institutions, and they can bypass universities. But they have their own horrifying goals about humanity, and they all bow to shareholders, not to mention their managerial-class executives and boards (who all have made millions via the indoctrination machine) who tell them never to step out of line. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542260) |
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Date: July 4th, 2020 11:23 AM Author: gay nudist menage This was true 30 years ago. Not now. Too many college-less tech upstarts (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40545824) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 5:30 PM Author: pearly box office really tough guy gramsci was all about economic leftism...today leftism is about race and gender and sexuality..the elites did not like economic leftism, and so they paid activists to come up with a new brand of leftism, and promoted that brand to the top (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542604) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 5:39 PM Author: brindle kink-friendly principal's office organic girlfriend This is incorrect. Gramschi did dabble in economic leftism but his lasting contribution was to shift to a more culture centered narrative away from the economics. He was an early structuralist. This gave rise to the Critical Theory people and later, postmodernism. Tl;dr these ideas have been circulating in academia for almost a century. It got continually coopted by various movements through the decades and it finally came around to identity politics. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542634) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 5:54 PM Author: pearly box office really tough guy he knew that politics follows culture...he wanted to change the culture to pave the way to economic leftism...ALL socialists back then were economic leftists (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542717) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 5:57 PM Author: brindle kink-friendly principal's office organic girlfriend They want to pave the way for something terrible that's for sure. It was my understanding though that most of this stuff was created by frustrated Communists living in the west who had mostly given up on installing their economic goals and turned to tearing down culture to stay relevant. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542738) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 6:21 PM Author: pearly box office really tough guy have you considered the possibility that they just did not understand how the world works? And I think that people still do not understand how the world works (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542850) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 6:30 PM Author: brindle kink-friendly principal's office organic girlfriend Of course. But within their little bubble I'm sure they felt tremendously self important. Part of the problem why Marxism never seems to fully die despite the mountain of evidence that Karl was wrong about everything is that he invented grievance in its modern form. There will always be people who feel like the world isn't fair, and they're mad as hell about it. That's why Marxism just transforms endlessly through the ages as different groups of aggrieved idiots take up the torch in the latest permutation. Communism is fundamentally a grievance study against rich people. Today we have more grievances than can be counted each more unjust than the last. And these people tend to nestle themselves in academia where they can get a paycheck and feel self important. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542894) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 3:24 PM Author: Splenetic masturbator athletic conference This thread reminds me of the XO days of yore
*sigh* nostalgia |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 6:35 PM Author: federal charismatic mexican yes, I really enjoyed the subthread wasteland springing up from the corpses of a mentally ill poaster and his sockpuppet pumoniker. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542914) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 3:29 PM Author: fuchsia titillating locus jap You are correct.
The problem is Trump was the wrong choice to fight this back. Romney would have been perfect. But in the RNC's quest for votes, they overcorrected on their overall lack of enthusiasm |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 3:29 PM Author: Arousing house-broken field background story 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542040) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 3:48 PM Author: brindle kink-friendly principal's office organic girlfriend Trump is the wrong messenger for the message. The problem is he's got the right ideas. Romney is a cuck who sold his soul. Trump is the soul of America but like America he's fat, ugly, mean, and retarded. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542138) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 4:11 PM Author: very tactful rigor Love Trump but lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542272) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 4:18 PM Author: brindle kink-friendly principal's office organic girlfriend (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542303) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 7:50 PM Author: Light talking dysfunction (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40543341) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 4:22 PM Author: Jet-lagged cuck This would make a good bumper sticker. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542318) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 4:24 PM Author: motley fantasy-prone library Guys, he is the ONLY messenger we have right now. We had a large 2016 R field and he was the only one that actually believed this. Every other person would have cucked. Cruz was probably the 2nd best choice. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542325) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 4:30 PM Author: brindle kink-friendly principal's office organic girlfriend Agreed. It's just a tough pill to swallow for most people, even conservatives, that we're stuck with Donald Trump of all people. At least he taught folks to stand up for themselves and gave them a voice against tyranny. And if he loses this one it's all on him, no excuses. Not everyone in America is based. There will be plenty of excuse-makers, 'he couldn't do it alone, never got support.' He was the hero we needed in 2016 and let's all hope he hangs on. But we need to think about a way to stick to our guns and not sell out while also ruling with some kind of decency and broadening the tent to include more Americans than can see themselves thriving under the conservative banner. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542361) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 4:51 PM Author: motley fantasy-prone library No shit, and this was true in 2016 too. I remember us saying "wait, he was a Democrat for most of his life and is famous for reality TV where he fired people at the end of every episode? That guy? The guy who talked about his dick size at CPAC?" But honestly, he has been mostly fine. We DO need to think about life after Trump for these issues though even if he wins because the eGOP is a disaster and a top reason Trump is having problems. LOL @ people wishing Romney had won, as though he isn't actively pulling for Biden as we speak. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542457) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 4:57 PM Author: brindle kink-friendly principal's office organic girlfriend (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542487) |
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Date: July 4th, 2020 11:24 AM Author: gay nudist menage Hes tho “mean”! Lol you dumb queer (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40545829) |
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Date: July 4th, 2020 12:12 PM Author: lime keepsake machete lettuce He's also not thin! Because that like totally matters. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40546060) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 4:02 PM Author: fishy odious cuckoldry area There was no "right choice" realistically, they were all going to cuck, but Trump at least managed to use his cunning as a showman to convince people otherwise (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542224) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 4:23 PM Author: motley fantasy-prone library Are you joking? Romney has demonstrated that he is pure evil. The idea that he would have fought this instead of sold out to it is laughable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542320) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 5:13 PM Author: Saffron french jew stag film (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542546) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 5:41 PM Author: Avocado Theater (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542646) |
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Date: July 4th, 2020 11:24 AM Author: gay nudist menage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40545831) |
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Date: July 4th, 2020 11:28 AM Author: Soul-stirring Swollen Toaster (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40545841) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 4:19 PM Author: lascivious boistinker nursing home you mean jews (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542307) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 4:57 PM Author: flushed apoplectic people who are hurt house glad I read this thread, really cheered me up (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542484) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 5:06 PM Author: brass cerebral point There are still a lot of open questions though. Like, for example, who's really calling the shots here? We know that the theories are developed at universities and money comes from wealthy donors, but who specifically are the key players? like what are their names? movements almost always have some kind of leader but it's hard to pinpoint one specific person who's really leading this thing that's taken hold here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542530) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 5:12 PM Author: Saffron french jew stag film (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542541) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 5:31 PM Author: Olive forum Has there been an iteration of a religion that worshipped a nebulous concept? This is some next level sim shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40542610) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 7:41 PM Author: flushed apoplectic people who are hurt house a religion that offers no rewards only punishments (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40543291) |
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Date: July 4th, 2020 9:41 AM Author: dull bateful step-uncle's house trump supporter Secularism is inherently anti-American conturds am, so it will never be embraced by them. Secularist populism produces what you see in France and Quebec (highest taxed areas in the world) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40545435) |
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Date: July 4th, 2020 11:27 AM Author: Blathering shaky coldplay fan Partially cr but you are conflating religion and ideology. The latter can be equally fanatical and all-consuming but lacks the moral and spiritual underpinnings to sustain a functioning society (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575885&forum_id=2#40545837) |