Gospel of John! Day 1 - Chapters 1 - 3
| Apoplectic telephone | 07/09/20 | | Slate menage mental disorder | 07/09/20 | | Apoplectic telephone | 07/09/20 | | Soul-stirring stag film mad cow disease | 07/09/20 | | Slate menage mental disorder | 07/09/20 | | Soul-stirring stag film mad cow disease | 07/09/20 | | Racy brass trailer park trump supporter | 07/09/20 | | Talented spot | 07/09/20 | | Racy brass trailer park trump supporter | 07/09/20 | | Talented spot | 07/09/20 | | Racy brass trailer park trump supporter | 07/09/20 | | Talented spot | 07/09/20 | | Racy brass trailer park trump supporter | 07/09/20 | | Apoplectic telephone | 07/09/20 | | Talented spot | 07/09/20 | | Racy brass trailer park trump supporter | 07/09/20 | | Talented spot | 07/09/20 | | Slate menage mental disorder | 07/09/20 | | Cerebral people who are hurt | 07/09/20 | | Racy brass trailer park trump supporter | 07/09/20 | | Slate menage mental disorder | 07/09/20 | | Racy brass trailer park trump supporter | 07/09/20 | | Slate menage mental disorder | 07/09/20 | | Racy brass trailer park trump supporter | 07/09/20 | | Apoplectic telephone | 07/09/20 | | Racy brass trailer park trump supporter | 07/09/20 | | Apoplectic telephone | 07/09/20 | | Racy brass trailer park trump supporter | 07/09/20 | | Apoplectic telephone | 07/09/20 | | Slate menage mental disorder | 07/09/20 | | Apoplectic telephone | 07/09/20 | | Racy brass trailer park trump supporter | 07/09/20 | | Slate menage mental disorder | 07/09/20 | | Slate menage mental disorder | 07/09/20 | | Racy brass trailer park trump supporter | 07/09/20 | | Apoplectic telephone | 07/09/20 | | Apoplectic telephone | 07/09/20 | | Slate menage mental disorder | 07/09/20 | | Apoplectic telephone | 07/09/20 | | Apoplectic telephone | 07/09/20 | | Slate menage mental disorder | 07/09/20 | | Apoplectic telephone | 07/09/20 | | Slate menage mental disorder | 07/09/20 | | Apoplectic telephone | 07/09/20 | | blathering jewess piazza | 07/09/20 | | Slate menage mental disorder | 07/09/20 | | Apoplectic telephone | 07/09/20 | | Slate menage mental disorder | 07/09/20 | | Apoplectic telephone | 07/09/20 | | blathering jewess piazza | 07/09/20 | | blathering jewess piazza | 07/09/20 | | Apoplectic telephone | 07/10/20 | | plum mind-boggling organic girlfriend | 09/24/21 |
Poast new message in this thread
Date: July 9th, 2020 3:59 PM Author: Apoplectic telephone
SUMMARY
The world of our experiences came into existence through a creative force that structured the laws, regularities and moral order we see today (Jn 1:3). That creative force is the Word of God (Jn 1:1).
The Word of God took the form of a man (Jn 1:9) called the Son of God (Jn 1:49) so that we could know God through him, live in accordance with his will and understand the meaning of life (Jn 1:13).
The Son of God tells us that to see God’s purpose for life we must be born again (Jn 3:3) and born of the Spirit (Jn 3:5). The Word of God has become a man to die and be raised, to show mankind what it means to be reborn (Jn 3:14-15).
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4580217&forum_id=2#40575539)
|
Date: July 9th, 2020 5:29 PM Author: Slate menage mental disorder
John 1 in general is one of my favorite passages of scripture but I'll just focus on a couple verses that I have something to say about (there's a lot going on here though).
1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
- "dwelt among us" is more literally "pitched a tent among us" (David Bentley Hart's recent "pitilessly literal" translation does this), i.e. "tabernacled" among us. It's pretty clear that John 1 is a recapitulation of Genesis 1; some (NT Wright claims this, though I don't know how much support he's got) say Genesis 1 describes the creation of the world as the creation of a temple (intersecting heaven+world). Perhaps the logos's "tabernacling" hints at a new temple theology for the gospel where we enter into the divine presence through [faith in?] Christ's incarnate life. (cf. Ezekiel 43:7?)
- "full of grace and truth" - echoes God's abundance of חֶסֶד and אֶמֶת (i.e., echoes Exodus 34:6). already in the first chapter we have hints that Christ will fulfill the promise of creation found in Genesis and promise of salvation in Exodus
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4580217&forum_id=2#40576040) |
Date: July 9th, 2020 9:39 PM Author: Slate menage mental disorder Subject: John 2
The water into wine story is great. I don't want to give it undue seriousness I guess but I've always sensed some profundity to it. You have John 1, this dense theological poetry about the logos rich in allusion to OT theology, and then you have Jesus's first Johannine miracle (/"sign," σημεῖον; John doesn't prefer to talk about "miracles"), then some more theologically significant narrative starting in 2:13 about Jesus and the temple--you'd expect that miracle story to be something expressly theological, but instead it's Jesus restocking the booze at a friend's wedding. John is very judicious in his selection of Jesus's "signs"--there are 7 of them, all contained in chs 2-12.
2:11 closes the story with commentary--that it revealed (ἐφανέρωσεν) Jesus's glory (ἐφανέρωσεν occurs again in John in the final chapter for the resurrected/glorified Jesus's revealing himself) and that as a result his disciples believed (side note that I'll probably mention again--John never talks about "faith," it's always verbed, believe).
What happens in between is poetic in its simplicity. The man may have been Jesus's personal friend (his family is there, as are the 5 followers introduced in ch 1). Wine at weddings was particularly important (of course, it still is now): "gifts" were not the gratuitous thing that we have in our culture, they were part of a web of social obligation (I mean, you could say the same thing about our gifts--but a gift to us need not be reciprocal; indeed, an un-reciprocated gift is a more perfected gift than a reciprocated one). A gift required a responsive gift; one commentator I have open claims wedding gifts had the status of loans that could be recovered in court. The groom's reciprocation was bountiful wine. This guy--maybe he overstretched himself financially, maybe he didn't plan well, maybe Jesus's crew were insane drinkers, whatever--was about to run out. So Jesus changes water into wine; some realize what's going on, some don't, but Jesus's friend is spared major embarrassment and the wedding is able to continue on as a joyous celebration.
Christ's gift is not likes ours; there is no reciprocity and it is found even (or perhaps especially) in the mundane.
(Of course, there's more to the story--Eucharistic overtones, perhaps, and there's perhaps an antitype thing with Moses changing water to blood and salvation happening through destruction while Jesus brings salvation through joy; but I like what's right there in the story: Jesus kicks off his ministry by helping his friend.)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4580217&forum_id=2#40577259) |
|
Date: July 9th, 2020 9:52 PM Author: Apoplectic telephone
There’s a sense where the historical context can feel like it’s taking away from the miracle, almost like not understanding why the wine is important gives you the sense of wonder youd feel if you saw the miracle itself, or that it narrows the applicability. Although in this case there is a very deep correlation between the free gift of wine from Christ to the desperate and the free gift of gods grace and salvation through Christ.
Regarding the former sense for example I found recently that there is some scholarship that turning the other cheek was a quasi political move having to do with Roman rules about the way to hit someone. I’d have to look, but it was something like if they back hand slapped you it was a sign of disrespect, and if you turned your cheek they then have to slap with their forehand, which was a sign of equality. So the notion that Christ was compelling us towards suffering for the purpose of nonviolent acceptance would miss the more strategic rationale.
That theory was put forward by a shitlib though so who knows, he may be reading into it too critically.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4580217&forum_id=2#40577340) |
|
Date: July 9th, 2020 10:38 PM Author: blathering jewess piazza
But why did He not world the miracle before they had filled the water pots, which would have been much more wonderful; inasmuch as it is one thing to change the quality of some existing substance, another to make it that substance out of nothing? The latter miracle would be the more wonderful, but the former would be the more easy of belief. And this principle often acts as a check, to moderate the greatness of our Lord’s miracles: He wishes to make them more credible, therefore He makes them less marvelous; a refutation this of the perverse doctrine of some, that He was a different Being from the Maker of the world. For wesee He performs most of His miracles upon subject-matter already existing, whereas were He contrary to the Creator of the world, He would not use a material thus alien, to demonstrate His own power. He did not draw out the water Himself which He made wine, but ordered the servants to do so. This was for the sake of having witnesses of the miracle; And He said to the m, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast.
Or thus; It might be said that the guests were drunken, and could not, in the confusion of their senses, tell whether it were water or wine. But this objection could not be brought against the attendants, who must have been sober, being occupied wholly in performing the duties of their service gracefully and in order. Our Lord therefore bid the attendants bear to the governor of the feast; who again would of course be perfectly sober. He did not say, Give to the guests to drink.
Our Lord wished the power of His miracles to be seen gradually; and therefore Hedid not reveal what He had done Himself, nor did the ruler of the feast call upon the servants to do so; (for no credit would have been given to such testimony concerning a mere man, asour Lord was supposed to be,) but He called the bridegroom, who was best able to see what was done. Christ moreover did not only make wine, but the best wine. And (the ruler of the feast) said to him, Every man at the beginning does set forth good wine, and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse; but you have kept the good wine until now. The effects of the miracles of Christ are more beautiful and better than the productions of nature. So then that the water was made wine, the servants could testify; that it was made good wine, the ruler of the feast and the bridegroom. It is probable that the bridegroom made some answer; but the Evangelist omits it, only mentioning what it was necessary for us to know, viz. the water being made wine. He adds, This beginning of of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee. It was very necessary to work miracles just then, when His devoted disciples were all collected, and present at the place, attending to what was going on. ID. Should any say that there is notsufficient proof of this being the beginning of miracles, because it is added, in Cana of Galilee, as if some had been preferred elsewhere: we answer, as we did before, that John says below, That He might be made manifest to Israel, therefore have I come baptizing. Now if Hehad performed miracles in the earlier part of His life, the Jews would not have wanted another person to point Him out. If our Lord in a short time became so distinguished for the number of His miracles, that His Name was known to every one, would He not have been much moreso, had He worked miracles from His earliest years? for the things themselves would have been the more extraordinary, being performed by a Child, and in so long a time must have become notorious. It was fit and proper however that He should not begin to work miracles atso early an age: for men would have thought the Incarnation a fantasy, and in the extremity of envy would have delivered Him to be crucified before the appointed time.
-John Chrysostom
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4580217&forum_id=2#40577599) |
|
Date: July 9th, 2020 10:34 PM Author: blathering jewess piazza
As if she said, Though He appear to refuse, He will do it nevertheless. She knew His pity and mercifulness. And there were set there six water pots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. Hydriae are vessels to hold water: hydor being the Greek for water.
At the time of our Lord’s appearing in the flesh, the sweet vinous taste of the law had been weakened by the carnal interpretations of the Pharisees.
-Bede
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4580217&forum_id=2#40577585) |
Date: July 10th, 2020 10:16 AM Author: Apoplectic telephone
Just to wrap up with Chapter 3 - maybe we should slow down if potluck is going to drop chapter specific bombs - it might be worth mentioning the importance of being "born again" of the "spirit" (Jn 3:3-5)
In many traditions and most notably evangelicalism being born again is a dramatic event in which the believer, in prayer, repents and put faith in Christ for their salvation. In the order of salvation, this takes place (for reformed evangelicals) after God's unilateral work of regenerating the unbeliever's heart.
In some traditions, most notably the Wesleyan and Pentecostal traditions, baptism by the holy spirit is a important and distinct concept. In both the concept corresponds to a second event in a believer's life - a "second blessing" - after having been born again. This is another dramatic event in which the holy spirit descends on the believer in prayer and, secondarily, seals the believer's heart. This spiritual (perhaps mystical) event is also associated with equipping the believer with spiritual gifts that enable subsequent acts of christian ministry.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4580217&forum_id=2#40579171) |
|
|