\
  The most prestigious law school admissions discussion board in the world.
BackRefresh Options Favorite

Blizzard employees revolt over not receiving >10% pay raises (ink)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-03/blizzard-...
Sapphire Excitant Place Of Business Brunch
  08/11/20
One employee wrote that they had to skip meals to pay rent a...
Nighttime Floppy Voyeur
  08/11/20
another scammed reddit for free pizza
Balding Really Tough Guy
  08/11/20
...
amethyst self-centered new version pistol
  08/11/20
...
frozen hall
  08/11/20
Sounds like they have lavish lifestyles
Sapphire Excitant Place Of Business Brunch
  08/11/20
*TMF adding cost of shitty free coffee to their total HHI* *...
Dark Tattoo Kitchen
  08/11/20
lol you beat me to the "all in" joke
talented meetinghouse
  08/11/20
...
pea-brained pisswyrm address
  08/11/20
...
Mint dopamine
  08/11/20
I been following this story (i'm a big MMO-mo though I don't...
startled ticket booth kitty
  08/11/20
Lmfao at in game membership time being an employment perk jf...
Marvelous Idiotic Tank Faggotry
  08/11/20
One guy posted that he has 25 years of WoW subscription. T...
startled ticket booth kitty
  08/11/20
...
Marvelous Idiotic Tank Faggotry
  08/11/20
great link; not one salary aside from the ceo's listed in th...
Up-to-no-good Cumskin Center
  08/11/20
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/119RI3oS9XNOjq2X8VLpU...
Autistic magical native
  08/11/20
is this a joke? I make more than a Senior Project Manager at...
talented meetinghouse
  08/11/20
This is in Austin too. I didn't realize pay was relatively l...
Sapphire Excitant Place Of Business Brunch
  08/11/20
I thought Blizzard was in Irvine
talented meetinghouse
  08/11/20
nevermind, i see now that there's diff office locations on t...
talented meetinghouse
  08/11/20
Why can't I fucking sort this piece of shit table? Whoever m...
Bespoke range
  08/11/20
They should be boosting the salaries a bit because the talen...
Aphrodisiac background story lay
  08/11/20
Serves them right for ruining WoW.
bateful clear bawdyhouse
  08/11/20
...
maroon metal spot
  08/11/20
Lol.
soul-stirring box office
  08/11/20
why do they think they're entitled to more pay? Japanese gam...
overrated trailer park genital piercing
  08/11/20
(bobby kotick)
Balding Really Tough Guy
  08/11/20
(Kagemasa Kozuki)
chartreuse insane idiot property
  08/11/20
...
soul-stirring box office
  08/11/20
Pay raise for what? Do they even make games anymore? Whe...
mischievous tanning salon
  08/11/20
Tbf, Diablo 4 is in production
Sapphire Excitant Place Of Business Brunch
  08/11/20
Ugh... diablo is their worst. Just click click click click
mischievous tanning salon
  08/11/20
WHAT, U DON'T HAVE PHONES?!?1
chartreuse insane idiot property
  08/11/20
No, diablo 4 is a legit PC game
Sapphire Excitant Place Of Business Brunch
  08/11/20
oh dang i was hoping they do more shitty mobile games dia...
chartreuse insane idiot property
  08/11/20
35k to be a GM in Austin. Good or bad if you're just some r...
Fragrant Mad-dog Skullcap Potus
  08/11/20
You can make more bartending on 6th street.
Bespoke range
  08/11/20
yeah but can u be fat and ugly and feel superior to other ne...
chartreuse insane idiot property
  08/11/20
...
soul-stirring box office
  08/11/20
whats a GM?
Hyperventilating Vengeful Location
  08/11/20
game master, you basically handle customer support in game
Titillating shivering trump supporter therapy
  08/12/20
everyone knows gaming has the worst work-life balance and lo...
Boyish claret juggernaut philosopher-king
  08/11/20
Bobby Kotick couldn't tell you how to reload in Warzone, but...
underhanded hell
  08/11/20
imagine if games studios could attract the talent that goes ...
talented meetinghouse
  08/11/20
It's because videogames are art.
Hyperventilating Vengeful Location
  08/11/20
...
180 coiffed weed whacker crackhouse
  08/11/20
...
Aphrodisiac background story lay
  08/12/20
Because you can already "dominate the gaming industry&q...
underhanded hell
  08/11/20
that was my point though, if you get the talent and pay them...
talented meetinghouse
  08/11/20
Okay, you risk billions on "something truly unique and ...
underhanded hell
  08/11/20
Apple didn't get where they are by aping the competition, at...
talented meetinghouse
  08/11/20
Gaming is hits driven and it’s hard if not impossible ...
flirting twinkling son of senegal stage
  08/12/20
Nerds: video games::alpha law students:DA offices::young shr...
Salmon den
  08/11/20
how has this model of giving millions to CEOs and scraps to ...
lavender elite feces
  08/11/20
"For the quarter ended June 30, 2020, Activision Blizza...
underhanded hell
  08/11/20
seems like they cash hoard more than Amazon The CEO of ev...
lavender elite feces
  08/11/20
CEOs are STRATEGIC THINKERS aka merge and divest every few y...
Know-it-all big-titted state mental disorder
  08/12/20
I don't see what the problem is. The large "discrepanci...
Histrionic haunting patrolman
  08/11/20
It's because video games are art.
Hyperventilating Vengeful Location
  08/11/20
It's widely known in the industry that game companies pay ab...
honey-headed wonderful lodge
  08/12/20
The Engineering involved in a video game seems more "re...
Histrionic haunting patrolman
  08/12/20
lol u know jack shit about software engineering
chartreuse insane idiot property
  08/12/20
I knew a game designer 15 years ago and he was pretty smart ...
Know-it-all big-titted state mental disorder
  08/12/20
again u know jack shit about software engineering i know ...
chartreuse insane idiot property
  08/12/20
Thought this was about Dairy Queen.
buff travel guidebook office
  08/12/20


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:16 PM
Author: Sapphire Excitant Place Of Business Brunch

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-03/blizzard-workers-share-salaries-in-revolt-over-wage-disparities

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739531)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:24 PM
Author: Nighttime Floppy Voyeur

One employee wrote that they had to skip meals to pay rent and that they used the company’s free coffee as an appetite suppressant. Another said they would only eat oatmeal and bail on team lunches because they couldn’t afford to buy food at the company cafeteria.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739621)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:25 PM
Author: Balding Really Tough Guy

another scammed reddit for free pizza

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739630)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:27 PM
Author: amethyst self-centered new version pistol



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739647)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:55 PM
Author: frozen hall



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740016)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:25 PM
Author: Sapphire Excitant Place Of Business Brunch

Sounds like they have lavish lifestyles

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739633)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:39 PM
Author: Dark Tattoo Kitchen

*TMF adding cost of shitty free coffee to their total HHI* *frowns when he realizes they make more than him*

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739836)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:44 PM
Author: talented meetinghouse

lol you beat me to the "all in" joke

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739890)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:54 PM
Author: pea-brained pisswyrm address



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740007)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 11:43 PM
Author: Mint dopamine



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40742214)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:30 PM
Author: startled ticket booth kitty

I been following this story (i'm a big MMO-mo though I don't play WoW) and they all posted their salaries and it honestly didn't seem that bad to me. There's definitely some shittiness with Blizzard offering perks like in-game membership time in lieu of actual bonuses though, that part is kind of funny. Reminds me of the old song 16 Tons.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739707)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:24 PM
Author: Marvelous Idiotic Tank Faggotry

Lmfao at in game membership time being an employment perk jfc

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740276)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 6:20 PM
Author: startled ticket booth kitty

One guy posted that he has 25 years of WoW subscription. That's kind of hilarious tbh.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740597)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 7:56 PM
Author: Marvelous Idiotic Tank Faggotry



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40741063)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:31 PM
Author: Up-to-no-good Cumskin Center

great link; not one salary aside from the ceo's listed in the "entire" article.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739715)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:32 PM
Author: Autistic magical native

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/119RI3oS9XNOjq2X8VLpUOMpyarcMsNzid-nA1OqbXkA/htmlview?pru=AAABc9xm048*IoWzMOeJOOiSRFAKtwbe_g

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739738)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:35 PM
Author: talented meetinghouse

is this a joke? I make more than a Senior Project Manager at Blizzard and I'm only a lowly engineer at a startup.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739789)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:36 PM
Author: Sapphire Excitant Place Of Business Brunch

This is in Austin too. I didn't realize pay was relatively low there

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739800)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:38 PM
Author: talented meetinghouse

I thought Blizzard was in Irvine

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739827)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:40 PM
Author: talented meetinghouse

nevermind, i see now that there's diff office locations on the sheet.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739848)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:03 PM
Author: Bespoke range

Why can't I fucking sort this piece of shit table? Whoever made this deserves to be fired for failing at basic excel skills. I was making pivot tables in 8th fucking grade.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740095)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:33 PM
Author: Aphrodisiac background story lay

They should be boosting the salaries a bit because the talent leaving is a big issue - they should embrace the tech company catered free food thing IMO.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739756)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:37 PM
Author: bateful clear bawdyhouse

Serves them right for ruining WoW.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739805)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:43 PM
Author: maroon metal spot



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739875)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 6:01 PM
Author: soul-stirring box office

Lol.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740483)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:39 PM
Author: overrated trailer park genital piercing

why do they think they're entitled to more pay? Japanese game developers don't get paid a whole lot of money and they make better games on average than Blizzard. this just seems like a lot of entitled BS to me.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739838)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:45 PM
Author: Balding Really Tough Guy

(bobby kotick)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739899)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:53 PM
Author: chartreuse insane idiot property

(Kagemasa Kozuki)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740003)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 6:01 PM
Author: soul-stirring box office



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740488)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:56 PM
Author: mischievous tanning salon

Pay raise for what? Do they even make games anymore?

Where’s Starcraft Ghost? Warcraft 4? Starcraft 3?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740023)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:56 PM
Author: Sapphire Excitant Place Of Business Brunch

Tbf, Diablo 4 is in production

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740028)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:57 PM
Author: mischievous tanning salon

Ugh... diablo is their worst. Just click click click click

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740033)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:00 PM
Author: chartreuse insane idiot property

WHAT, U DON'T HAVE PHONES?!?1

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740064)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:06 PM
Author: Sapphire Excitant Place Of Business Brunch

No, diablo 4 is a legit PC game

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740118)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:08 PM
Author: chartreuse insane idiot property

oh dang i was hoping they do more shitty mobile games

diablo franchise died with diablo 3.

they should make a warcraft 4 RTS game. or fix hearthstone.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740134)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:04 PM
Author: Fragrant Mad-dog Skullcap Potus

35k to be a GM in Austin. Good or bad if you're just some random high school grad?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740104)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:06 PM
Author: Bespoke range

You can make more bartending on 6th street.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740125)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:09 PM
Author: chartreuse insane idiot property

yeah but can u be fat and ugly and feel superior to other nerds in a virtual world on 6th street?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740142)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 6:01 PM
Author: soul-stirring box office



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740489)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:23 PM
Author: Hyperventilating Vengeful Location

whats a GM?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740260)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 12th, 2020 12:12 AM
Author: Titillating shivering trump supporter therapy

game master, you basically handle customer support in game

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40742354)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:11 PM
Author: Boyish claret juggernaut philosopher-king

everyone knows gaming has the worst work-life balance and lowest pay per hour in the software industry. the execs take advantage of loser nerds who aren't willing to stand up for themselves by forcing long hours, ridiculously tight deadlines, and low pay on them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740162)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:13 PM
Author: underhanded hell

Bobby Kotick couldn't tell you how to reload in Warzone, but he can tell you how to fire hundreds of employees after a year that saw record profits. That's why he makes $40M and the monkeys churning out the microtransactions live off break room coffee.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740169)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:21 PM
Author: talented meetinghouse

imagine if games studios could attract the talent that goes to Amazon, Google, Apple, etc. I don't know why they haven't tried to do this and dominate the gaming industry.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740238)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:24 PM
Author: Hyperventilating Vengeful Location

It's because videogames are art.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740274)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:25 PM
Author: 180 coiffed weed whacker crackhouse



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740278)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 12th, 2020 12:36 AM
Author: Aphrodisiac background story lay



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40742424)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:40 PM
Author: underhanded hell

Because you can already "dominate the gaming industry" paying poverty-level wages to nerds who will grind themselves to death for the privilege of making your product?

Most games being made today are lowest-common-denominator slop stuffed to the gills with microtransactions. You don't need Google engineers making $300k to churn out a Warzone battle pass every 60 days or update the roster in the next FIFA game.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740368)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:43 PM
Author: talented meetinghouse

that was my point though, if you get the talent and pay them well maybe they can make something truly unique and forward-thinking and make you obscene amounts of ca$h

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740387)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:48 PM
Author: underhanded hell

Okay, you risk billions on "something truly unique and forward thinking." Meanwhile, Activision will print billions selling digital hats and gun skins to the mass market of retards willing to buy them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740411)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:51 PM
Author: talented meetinghouse

Apple didn't get where they are by aping the competition, at least not directly. it's a risk, yeah, just surprised no one has pounced on it yet. it's not like there's a shortage of money in the games industry.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740436)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 12th, 2020 12:34 PM
Author: flirting twinkling son of senegal stage

Gaming is hits driven and it’s hard if not impossible to algorithmically determine what’s is a hit (look at Netflix). cos like google succeed from being really good at math and tech, they are autists who don’t have what it takes to make engaging content

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40744384)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 6:26 PM
Author: Salmon den

Nerds: video games::alpha law students:DA offices::young shrews:PR

Jobs that are desirable type work to certain people so they can get away with paying absolute shit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740630)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:41 PM
Author: lavender elite feces

how has this model of giving millions to CEOs and scraps to employees been sustainable?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740376)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:44 PM
Author: underhanded hell

"For the quarter ended June 30, 2020, Activision Blizzard’s net revenues presented in accordance with GAAP were $1.93 billion, as compared with $1.40 billion for the second quarter of 2019. GAAP net revenues from digital channels were $1.59 billion, as compared with $1.09 billion for the second quarter of 2019. GAAP operating margin was 39%."

https://investor.activision.com/news-releases/news-release-details/activision-blizzard-announces-record-second-quarter-2020

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740395)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:46 PM
Author: lavender elite feces

seems like they cash hoard more than Amazon

The CEO of every corporation is essentially a slush fund golem socking away wealth for the future

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740405)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 12th, 2020 12:44 PM
Author: Know-it-all big-titted state mental disorder

CEOs are STRATEGIC THINKERS aka merge and divest every few years to take advantage of synergies or focus on core competencies

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40744483)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 6:20 PM
Author: Histrionic haunting patrolman

I don't see what the problem is. The large "discrepancies" I am seeing are between Engineers making ~$150k and Losers averaging like $46,600. The moral of the story is to have a Clique, e.g. to be a Nerd and Engineer things. The Losers on the staff probably grew up playing video games passively like idiots whereas the Nerds were coding games in BASIC at age 7.

Sure, some of the Engineers make $110k and some make $160k but for all I know the latter is experienced in coding WoW expansions and the former is a n00b or Peter from office space.

Also a 10% average raise would just average out to 20% for Nerds and 0% for Losers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740598)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 7:51 PM
Author: Hyperventilating Vengeful Location

It's because video games are art.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40741035)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 12th, 2020 12:01 AM
Author: honey-headed wonderful lodge

It's widely known in the industry that game companies pay absolute shit. Go work for a real tech company if you want to make any money.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40742323)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 12th, 2020 10:34 AM
Author: Histrionic haunting patrolman

The Engineering involved in a video game seems more "real" than NFLX or a shitty website like AMZN or facebook. Physics and Game Engines and shit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40743690)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 12th, 2020 12:26 PM
Author: chartreuse insane idiot property

lol u know jack shit about software engineering

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40744320)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 12th, 2020 12:45 PM
Author: Know-it-all big-titted state mental disorder

I knew a game designer 15 years ago and he was pretty smart and took a lot of grad-level comp sci and math

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40744498)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 12th, 2020 12:52 PM
Author: chartreuse insane idiot property

again u know jack shit about software engineering

i know a smart PHD quant friend working at lowe's. doesn't mean they need to boost lowe's salaries to google/netflix levels.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40744540)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 12th, 2020 11:19 AM
Author: buff travel guidebook office

Thought this was about Dairy Queen.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40743930)