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Alabama making it as a 3 loss team is outrageous
Poast new message in this thread
Date: December 7th, 2025 12:50 PM Author: jet haunting piazza coffee pot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491381) |
Date: December 7th, 2025 12:53 PM Author: effete dashing range why do you hate conference championship games? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491396) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 12:56 PM Author: lascivious crystalline locus azn If you get blown out in your conference title, you dont deserve to go.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Big_12_Championship_Game
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Date: December 7th, 2025 1:02 PM Author: jet haunting piazza coffee pot They almost lost to auburn and got stomped by Georgia (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491421) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 1:03 PM Author: Startled Milky Crackhouse just -3 rushing yards in your championship game, bro,. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491425) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 1:04 PM Author: tan tattoo They get bonus points for being a high revenue program. There’s always a spot reserved for them. OSU gets the same treatment. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491426) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 1:17 PM Author: white chapel coldplay fan If the first team out were JMU, maybe I'd agree with you. Instead it's a 2-loss notre dame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491461) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 1:07 PM Author: tan tattoo Tulane being in is worse. Got blown out by Ole Miss, the only real team they played, and now they have to play Ole Miss again in the first round. What is even the point of that? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491432) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 1:10 PM Author: Shimmering bespoke mood They had to do that to make the Alabama thing look reasonable (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491440) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 1:33 PM Author: tan tattoo Here are the betting lines for the first round:
Oklahoma (-1.5) v. Alabama Texas A&M (-3.5) v. Miami Ole Miss (-17.5) v. Tulane Oregon (-21.5) v. JMU
what are we even doing? This is supposed to be one of the best weekends of games in all of sports. Instead Ole Miss and Oregon essentially have first round byes |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 1:38 PM Author: effete dashing range (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491512) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 4:06 PM Author: white chapel coldplay fan C fucking R.
Wtf happened to the eye test?! |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 1:13 PM Author: jet haunting piazza coffee pot Yeah I think everyone expects JMU and Tulane to get blown out in the first round but they have to give non P4 schools some chance at making it imo. I think the current rules with the top 5 conference champs getting an auto bid is good. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491447) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 1:15 PM Author: Startled Milky Crackhouse Giving 1 team a chance is fine. Especially a 12-0 UCF. Giving 2, especially a clown car like JMU, is embarrassing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491457) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 1:19 PM Author: jet haunting piazza coffee pot I’m not sure the committee ever considered a P4 conference dropping the ball so bad this year by having a 5 loss conference champion. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491463) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 1:33 PM Author: Startled Milky Crackhouse The ACC is run by a barrel of monkeys lmao (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491498) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 3:09 PM Author: Smoky travel guidebook cr, the conference champion thing was a fraud from the start to protect the big conferences. no one could have imagined how bad the acc would be. corrupt cfb faggots getting got by their own design. its lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491724) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:09 PM Author: pearl clown Cr, lollercausting hard @ cumskins (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491936) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:28 PM Author: Smoky travel guidebook (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491987) |
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Date: December 8th, 2025 9:44 AM Author: Appetizing Home (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49493246) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 1:21 PM Author: Motley Bright Set Sandwich (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491471) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 1:30 PM Author: tan tattoo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491490) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 3:31 PM Author: Slimy wagecucks chad What other conf champ would be better to put in? That have to put in someone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491766) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 3:40 PM Author: Motley Bright Set Sandwich They didn't have to stick with these stupid rules. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491795) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 3:42 PM Author: Slimy wagecucks chad They are good rules. You need to give a shot to smaller programs. But that’s beside the point anyway because yes they did have to stick with the rules they set long ago. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491801) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 3:48 PM Author: Motley Bright Set Sandwich If there was actually a good G5 team, they would be ranked in the top 12. And they didn't need to stick with the rules. It is a tv program. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491818) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 3:55 PM Author: Slimy wagecucks chad The whole point of five CC winners is to reach outside of the top ranked 12 bc the committee is never gonna put Tulane or a MAC school in the T12 anyway and there has to be a narrow path for any program (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491831) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 9:37 PM Author: Provocative green theatre preventive strike "If there was actually a good G5 team, they would be ranked in the top 12."
No - they would 100% have put in another 3 loss SEC team over a historic undefeated team like Boise, UCF, etc.
It looks ridiculous this year because (i) there are two shitty conference bids because 5 loss Duke won the ACC championship instead of Miami/FSU/Clemson so the ACC lost their spot and (ii) the two teams just aren't that compelling. Last year you just a Boise St team here that did okay. |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 9:42 PM Author: Motley Bright Set Sandwich Cincy got into the 4 team playoff. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49492683) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 1:23 PM Author: Fighting address indirect expression (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491473) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 1:37 PM Author: Stubborn Hell have a 64 team playoff at this point (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491510) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 2:54 PM Author: tan tattoo Or just don’t put cupcakes in who will get blown out in the first round (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491693) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 4:00 PM Author: Motley Bright Set Sandwich They should shrink it. Make it 8 teams with IU, tOSU, Oregon, Georgia, Notre Dame, Miami, Texas Tech, and A&M. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491844) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 4:03 PM Author: Slimy wagecucks chad It should be 4 teams. That takes care of the problem that CFB was trying to address which is a situation where 3 teams could reasonably claim they deserve to pay in the NCG, like this year: Indiana, Georgia and Texas Tech. Obviously Indiana is in but both Ga and TT should be able to compete for the second spot. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491850) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 4:33 PM Author: Motley Bright Set Sandwich 4 teams was actually the worst format on the field even if the idea was good. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491893) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:29 PM Author: Slimy wagecucks chad Not if the problem you are trying to solve is making sure a 3 teams could reasonably scenario is avoided. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491989) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:48 PM Author: Motley Bright Set Sandwich There was never any problem with the BCS if it was applied correctly. Once Bama fraudulently got in instead of OSU it ruined everything . (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49492030) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 2:56 PM Author: tan tattoo Sucks that there are no cold weather games in the first round this year unless it happens to snow in Oklahoma in two weeks (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491698) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 3:10 PM Author: Smoky travel guidebook alabama thing is absurd. cfb continues to be a complete clown show. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491727) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 3:24 PM Author: Slimy wagecucks chad Not really and I’m not an SEC fan at all. They got in over ND, who has chosen never to compete for a conference championship. Playing and losing a CC game at the end of the day, must be valued higher than not playing in one at all. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491757) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 3:34 PM Author: Excitant beta market background story Really stupid (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491778) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 3:48 PM Author: twisted irate senate Alabama with 3 losses is ridiculous. If they kept it close against Georgia, ok maybe. But at this point they’re just crediting their past. Miami over ND seems suspect too. I get that they beat ND but they were behind ND last week. What changed? That shit show ACC championship should have hurt them if anything. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491817) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 3:52 PM Author: lascivious crystalline locus azn ND should be punished for not being in a conference. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491826) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 3:54 PM Author: Slimy wagecucks chad This is the credited response. Or at least not rewarded for not being in one. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491828) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 3:54 PM Author: twisted irate senate But even that’s inconsistent with ND’s ranking last week. They were ahead of Miami. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491830) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 3:55 PM Author: lascivious crystalline locus azn who cares? those are meaningless. end result is what matters. those weekly things are fake and will always be a bit fake just for ESPN rating. r u gay? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491833) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 3:56 PM Author: Slimy wagecucks chad The rankings don’t matter. It’s not mid season anymore. You look at whole body of work now. Hurricanes won the head to head matchup. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491834) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 4:24 PM Author: twisted irate senate I’m not talking about mid season. I’m talking about last week! In fact the whole debate this past week was about whether leaving Miami out was fair. You could make an argument either way about Miami or ND getting in over the other but the committee completely flip flopped its rationale because they wanted at least 1 acc team in. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491879) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 3:56 PM Author: Deranged Wrinkle Den CFB rules - Alabama wins any and all tiebreakers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491835) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 4:06 PM Author: Provocative green theatre preventive strike It's pretty obvious that the "committee" just didn't want to piss off the SEC by dropping Bama after the championship game (even though they deserved it) and didn't want to piss off the ACC with no bids.
So dropped Bama 0 spots - because they didn't want to punish someone for playing a conference championship (even if they lost by 21).
But they dropped Ohio State for losing.
Even more importantly, they dropped BYU for losing its game.
Because that allowed them to move Miami up a spot - and then put Miami and Notre Dame next to each other, which means now they have to put Miami above Notre Dame because Miami beat them at home by 3 points the first game of the season.
It's all perfectly logical and consistent! |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 4:10 PM Author: white chapel coldplay fan When JMU exposes its rectal prolapse on national TV causing the biggest football outrage since the janet jackson wardrobe malfunction, and Tulane gets wrecked worse than it did by Hurrican Katrina, maybe we'll circle back on this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491859) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 4:12 PM Author: Provocative green theatre preventive strike But JMU and Tulane are both only getting invited because the ACC sucked right?
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:52 PM Author: white chapel coldplay fan Yes when they created a 'top 5 conference champs get in' rule it was obviously not anticipated that this would require admitting not one but TWO champs of conferences that have members like "Troy" and "the North Texas Mean Green". (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49492034) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 4:10 PM Author: jet haunting piazza coffee pot The BYU drop is what seals it for me. Both got beat down in the conference championship game but only BYU dropped. BYUs two Ls are only to a very good Texas Tech team. Alabama barely beat Auburn and had a bad lose to Florida, right? Or some other bad school.
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Date: December 7th, 2025 4:17 PM Author: lascivious crystalline locus azn Texas should have gotten in over Bama due to head to head and being better in the months of Nov/Dec. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491869) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 4:14 PM Author: Fighting address indirect expression FCS playoff format is the best and always has been (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491868) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 4:31 PM Author: Titillating Bonkers Roommate Feces the whole thing is fake and gay (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491891) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 4:42 PM Author: supple maize trailer park kitty Vanderbilt should be in 100% this is absolute fucking horseshit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491905) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:05 PM Author: sickened violet gunner Legitimately outrageous this year, it’s so corrupt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491928) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:08 PM Author: Diverse Hissy Fit I hate ND but it's insane they were left our for a Bama team that got RAPED by FSU, lost to OU and got DOMINATED 28-7 in the SEC CCG and finished with -3 yds rushing. ND played a soft sched but they have 2 L by 1 and 3 pts to top-10 teams and a win over USC. For Bama to move from 10 to 9 for a narrow win over a 5-7 team and then not drop even ONE FUCKING SPOT for getting blown out 28-7...LMAO. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491931) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:12 PM Author: white chapel coldplay fan I can remember a time when ND got its ass licked by the BCS etc. every year. The joke being that it was always conference champ.
In recent years it's been clear that a lack of political allies is >> revenue generation. |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:14 PM Author: Diverse Hissy Fit I figured the (((committee))) would game the system to keep Bama and ND in for max eyeballs and $$$. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491944) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:35 PM Author: white chapel coldplay fan Nope we get JMU and tulane. In blowouts, at that.
Not to go all ayn rand, but do the committee members not have a personal financial incentive here? Skin in the game is necessary. |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:36 PM Author: Diverse Hissy Fit Oregon are 21.5pt favs v JMU, what is the damn point (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49492000) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:55 PM Author: white chapel coldplay fan They won the SUN BELT! Are you not impressed?!
I asked google's shitlib AI to tell me the members of the sun belt, and for all I know half of these could be hallucinated:
"Appalachian State, Arkansas State, Coastal Carolina, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, James Madison, Louisiana, Louisiana-Monroe, Marshall, Old Dominion, South Alabama, Southern Miss, Texas State, and Troy, with Louisiana Tech joining soon to maintain the 14-member count" |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 6:15 PM Author: Carmine talking site That too many Louisianas (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49492080) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:17 PM Author: twisted irate senate During the week oddsmakers actually had ND as fourth most likely to win the NC. Granted Ohio State was first but still. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491956) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:33 PM Author: Diverse Hissy Fit This morning before the seleciton show Vegas top 4 to win NC were: 1. Ohio State, 2. Indiana, 3. UGA, 4. ND (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491992) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:37 PM Author: Titillating Bonkers Roommate Feces FanDuel had Notre Dame tied with Georgia for the third-best odds to win the national championship at one point Sunday, December 7, 2025. At 9 a.m. Eastern Time, FanDuel listed Notre Dame's odds at +800, trailing only Ohio State, Indiana, and Georgia. By noon Eastern Time, the odds for the Fighting Irish had shortened to +700, tying them with Georgia for the third-best odds overall. Shortly after, the final College Football Playoff rankings were revealed, and Notre Dame was the first team left out of the 12-team field, causing their championship odds to become infinite. |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:16 PM Author: Titillating Bonkers Roommate Feces #1 ND had a legit shot to win the whole thing this year. All fear them. #2 ND made it to the championship last year and shared none of that revenue with anyone else. All are jealous. #3 Alabama was left out last year. Can't have that again
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:17 PM Author: Diverse Hissy Fit Before the selection show, Vegas had ND #4 odds to it all. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49491951) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:53 PM Author: Startled Milky Crackhouse #3 is key, Alabama is ass, they show flashes of brilliance, but they shit the bed repeatedly, including -3 rushing yards against Georgia. It's a fucking sham but the Committee was scared as fuck about (1) making them the "last team out" for two straight years and (2) making the SEC angry. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49492035) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 6:07 PM Author: lascivious crystalline locus azn Replacing 3 loss bama with 3 loss Texas (who beat Bama) would have kept the SEC happy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49492067) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 6:26 PM Author: Diverse Hissy Fit Texas didn't play Bama. Bama's 3 L are FSU, OU, UGA (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49492100) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 6:41 PM Author: lascivious crystalline locus azn dont correct me in public (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49492144) |
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Date: December 8th, 2025 11:17 AM Author: pearl clown (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49493487) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:35 PM Author: Slimy wagecucks chad Any team on the bubble doesn’t deserve any shot to play in the NCG.
There are three teams who deserve to play for it: Indiana, Texas Tech, Georgia. That’s it. All of them are in the playoffs, so the playoffs did what it was supposed to when the BCS was gotten rid of. All the deserving teams are in.
If your team was just outside of a 12 freaking team playoff, they didn’t get gypped. They have no claim to play for the national championship. Same is true of every team this year that isn’t Indy TT or Ga. |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:36 PM Author: white chapel coldplay fan Ok boomer (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49492002) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 5:47 PM Author: Slimy wagecucks chad (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49492029) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 6:29 PM Author: Soul-stirring harsh library No Ohio State? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49492104) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 6:31 PM Author: Slimy wagecucks chad They didn’t win their conference (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49492107) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 6:12 PM Author: clear useless reading party community account why? they're going to beat oklahoma and indiana (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49492075) |
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Date: December 7th, 2025 9:00 PM Author: Self-absorbed Avocado Candlestick Maker you have no idea what you're talking about, champ. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49492601) |
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Date: December 8th, 2025 9:42 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle ape brunch the whole thing is super super gay (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5807523&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=4593694#49493242) |