My sense is that most "respectable" Millennials with jobs as professionals or executives are maintaining their lifestyles through exorbitant debts.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5845722&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310477#49744337)

Add in the fact that they tell themselves "everyone's doing it, I deserve to do this, I work hard" and you end up with people who are treading water financially.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5845722&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310477#49744348)

People shit on Dave Ramsey here, but a lot of UMC people think they're above his advice when they really aren't at all.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5845722&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310477#49744460)

2. One of my friends grew up MC and has a chill job. His wife grew up rich. Her parents have at least 4 houses/condos around the country in expensive locations. They (friend and wife) remodeled their house when they moved in 7 years ago. They're re modeling it again now because wife didn't love the first remodel. She's also talking about moving. I don't know how they do it.

3. Friend escaped big law. His wife told him to get back in. He's gaining weight and hates it. They just went to Disney World, an expensive trip to begin with. Rather than getting $40/person/day cut the line passes, they got premium $350/person/day cut he line passes because his sahm wife wanted them. That was like $7k just on the cut the line passes. On another recent vacation, he said he worked sun up to sun down every day.

4. One from me. Wife and I are thinking of remodeling a bathroom. We had one contractor over for an estimate. We told them what we wanted. Asked how much it would be. They said "what's your budget?" I said lol.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5845722&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310477#49744618)

Also he has no book and is going to keep getting no breakfast.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5845722&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310477#49744653)

He's a nice guy in a rough spot. This morning, I walked by his house on the way to get one of my kids from another neighbor's house. He was sitting on his front porch in gym shorts and a hoodie, sipping on gatorade, staring into the distance. He looked rough.

An answer to your question that applies to him but is not particular to him: It's some combination of the following, overlapping factors: (a) These signs not manifesting themselves clearly enough before marriage and kids. E.g., a $100/person dinner 1x per week and a $3-4k for two people for a mini-luxury long weekend in the carribean every few months when you're an associate with no kids is no problem. (b) Missing the signs that are there, because you're burying your head in the sand or focused on work or don't have a trusted older brother or fellow posters or whoever to tell you. (c) Getting someone more attractive than you otherwise would have.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5845722&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310477#49745267)

Rather than getting $40/person/day cut the line passes, they got premium $350/person/day cut he line passes because his sahm wife wanted them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5845722&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310477#49745403)

it’s also easy to pursue some non-traditional life and end up looking like a loser if you don’t make anything of it. but is that really any less noble than slipping into a marriage of circumstance that ends in tragedy and sadness because the demoralized man realizes after the fact that umc wagie life and “cruising to retirement” is to him a waste of time on this earth.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5845722&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310477#49744884)

I am not a lawyer and have done well. But will also acknowledge that nothing is / was certain and having a wife that legitimately doesn't give a fuck about preftige goes a huge way. I think a lot of people, even those who partake in the scholarship of the law, would probably be happier in their work if they didn't feel like they were constantly keeping up with some shrew's birdbrain demands (kitchen remodels, bathroom remodels, other shit that you just don't need to do.)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5845722&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310477#49745306)

if you mean to say that a umc grinder could take an easier job for less pay that’s also true but you haven’t really escaped the tradeoff matrix. you could pursue a different professional path with kids and just accept that your material standard of living is going to be lower but does that then mean that you’re prepared to live in a shitty school district and send your kid to the local public school? tell your kid who’s into hockey that it’s just too expensive? there’s a fundamental threshold that most people capable of umc status are not going to compromise on once they have kids. that's the essence of the umc trap.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5845722&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310477#49745406)

I'm not saying "just do find a chill job that pays well." I'm arguing instead that people put the cart before the horse. They say "well I want to make a lot of money, so I'll be a lawyer," which is a dumb way to build a career and a good way to create a life that feels like a prison. Rather, most reasonably intelligent people can build great careers outside of the traditional "high paying" professions like law or medicine.

I suppose you might say "well, the guy who is a GM of the widget manufacturer still has to grind." And you might be right...but at least they are building real skills and expertise in an industry that can be transferred to any number of other industries or to real entrepreneurship (versus solo law or some BS app idea or whatever.) Also, the guy who is a GM or VP of Sales at the widget company is not going to grind as hard as a guy making Partner in big law.

The more people try and determine the outcome of their lives in advance, the unhappier they are. Removal of uncertainty may guarantee some level of income (through pure grinding in a profession), but uncertainty is actually where the fun and surprise upside lives.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5845722&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310477#49745909)

And I don’t even consider myself UMC.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5845722&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310477#49744898)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5845722&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310477#49744993)