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LLMs aren't that good

...
metaphysics is fallow
  04/26/25
Cr the more you understand coding the less impressive it bec...
cucumbers
  04/26/25
what if you get one in tax at the university of florida levi...
chinese fag
  04/26/25
...
The Mercantilist Policy April
  04/26/25
...
cucumbers
  04/26/25
...
novus homo
  04/26/25
...
Hombre 3000
  04/26/25
Im about to graduate with an LLM fwiw
cowgod
  04/26/25
afaik
chinese fag
  04/26/25
...
Jacking off to YouTube videos about low birthrates
  04/26/25
better off getting a Stetson JD and becoming Attorney Genera...
"""'"'"""''
  04/26/25
...
Oh, You Travel!
  04/26/25
Often the best option for foreigners though
lsd
  04/26/25
That’s what I’ve been saying. They aren’t ...
Oh, you travel?
  04/26/25
https://siliconangle.com/2025/04/24/anthropic-launches-ai-we...
metaphysics is fallow
  04/26/25
Oh wow two questions
https://imgur.com/a/o2g8xYK
  04/26/25
2 questions that show Anthropic is truly a neurotic jew in c...
metaphysics is fallow
  04/26/25
Cr if you hear anyone hyping up AI they're either clueless o...
cucumbers
  04/26/25
It’s better at liberal arts than Engineering. For Engi...
cowgod
  04/26/25
Yeah it's fine as long as you don't need it to tell you anyt...
https://imgur.com/a/o2g8xYK
  04/26/25
it's always bort coders that insist "it's NOT THAT good...
novus homo
  04/26/25
The only poaster who's shittier than AI
https://imgur.com/a/o2g8xYK
  04/26/25
almost everyone who says this is either someone like nsam/mi...
aqua jeet
  04/26/25
wait two weeks
https://imgur.com/a/o2g8xYK
  04/26/25
you have never had a job
aqua jeet
  04/26/25
You're afraid of losing yours to a graphics card 🤣🤣ðŸ¤...
https://imgur.com/a/o2g8xYK
  04/26/25
you spammed for weeks terrified musk would eliminate your go...
novus homo
  04/26/25
You forgot to log back into your alt
https://imgur.com/a/o2g8xYK
  04/26/25
so i'm already rsf + tdnw + hegemon and now i'm gregor too?
novus homo
  04/26/25
sorry, what is it exactly that you "do", again? pr...
aqua jeet
  04/26/25
Log back into your gunnerattt account before I engage you fu...
https://imgur.com/a/o2g8xYK
  04/26/25
...
novus homo
  04/26/25
I've done so, brother. see the blank bump above (that's me)....
aqua jeet
  04/26/25
Lawyers are at least protected by a bullshit cartel of sorts...
cowgod
  04/26/25
the only reason i think lawyers may be more protected is bec...
novus homo
  04/26/25
...
Mainlining the $ecret Truth of the Univer$e
  04/26/25
I don’t see how rates can be maintained when all of th...
,.,.,.,....,.,..,.,.,.
  04/26/25
it's fine at generating boilerplate code but that is only 15...
Oh, you travel?
  04/26/25
Are you talking about System Design? Generating code is like...
cowgod
  04/26/25
you've been Managing for too long I can't speak to how g...
aqua jeet
  04/26/25
(guy with a liberal arts degree)
cucumbers
  04/26/25
you're ignoring everything that goes into the development, Q...
Oh, you travel?
  04/26/25
pipelines are actually a great example of AI significantly ...
aqua jeet
  04/26/25
the thing about coding is it's pretty fucking easy UNTIL thi...
Oh, you travel?
  04/26/25
of course in reality it will end up something like the top 5...
aqua jeet
  04/26/25
...
https://imgur.com/a/o2g8xYK
  04/26/25
i have been coding for around 15 years and hate this shit. i...
cucumbers
  04/26/25
I find I'm asking ChatGPT extra questions to verify that it ...
Jacking off to YouTube videos about low birthrates
  04/26/25
i've experienced this multiple times with simple questions w...
cucumbers
  04/26/25
No one is using AI to do anything important. NO | ONE
https://imgur.com/a/o2g8xYK
  04/26/25
"You're absolutely right! I was completely wrong about ...
Oh, you travel?
  04/26/25
...
Jacking off to YouTube videos about low birthrates
  04/26/25
...
metaphysics is fallow
  04/26/25
...
jag
  04/26/25
...
,.,.,.,....,.,..,.,.,.
  04/26/25
Cr
Mainlining the $ecret Truth of the Univer$e
  04/26/25
ITT: bald, depressed lawyers with BAs in political science p...
cucumbers
  04/26/25
i'm the only lawyer that has participated in this thread oth...
novus homo
  04/26/25
This board is like 27% Engineers plus Lawgineers
cowgod
  04/26/25
I use GitHub Copilot for coding. It's pretty good. It makes ...
Oh, You Travel!
  04/26/25
Which languages
Jacking off to YouTube videos about low birthrates
  04/26/25


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 7:47 AM
Author: metaphysics is fallow



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882316)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 7:49 AM
Author: cucumbers

Cr the more you understand coding the less impressive it becomes. whenever i try to use it for coding it gives me the wrong answer at least half of the time

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882319)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 7:53 AM
Author: chinese fag ((zurich is stained))

what if you get one in tax at the university of florida levin college of law? they're only $110,000.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882323)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 7:53 AM
Author: The Mercantilist Policy April (No Future)



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882324)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 7:56 AM
Author: cucumbers



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882334)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:15 AM
Author: novus homo (gunneratttt)



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882447)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:28 AM
Author: Hombre 3000 (â„ï¸The '80s called and they want their foreign policy backâ„ï¸)



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882472)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:29 AM
Author: cowgod ( )

Im about to graduate with an LLM fwiw

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882474)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 2:03 PM
Author: chinese fag ((zurich is stained))

afaik

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48883090)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 10:02 AM
Author: Jacking off to YouTube videos about low birthrates



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882550)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 10:20 AM
Author: """'"'"""''

better off getting a Stetson JD and becoming Attorney General of the United States

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882611)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 1:42 PM
Author: Oh, You Travel!



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48883030)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 7:54 AM
Author: lsd

Often the best option for foreigners though

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882330)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 7:58 AM
Author: Oh, you travel? ( )

That’s what I’ve been saying. They aren’t even close to being “artificially intelligent” either.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882339)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 7:59 AM
Author: metaphysics is fallow

https://siliconangle.com/2025/04/24/anthropic-launches-ai-welfare-research-program/

The nascent field of AI welfare research revolves around two main questions. The first is whether tomorrow’s neural networks could achieve a form of consciousness. The other question, in turn, is what kind of steps could be taken to improve AI welfare if the answer to the first question is positive.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882341)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:32 AM
Author: https://imgur.com/a/o2g8xYK


Oh wow two questions

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882482)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 10:24 AM
Author: metaphysics is fallow

2 questions that show Anthropic is truly a neurotic jew in corporate form

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882623)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 7:59 AM
Author: cucumbers

Cr if you hear anyone hyping up AI they're either clueless or trying to sell you some AI-derivative SaaS

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882342)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:31 AM
Author: cowgod ( )

It’s better at liberal arts than Engineering. For Engineering it just needs a feedback loop to tell it that the thing it’s doing sucks imho.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882480)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:33 AM
Author: https://imgur.com/a/o2g8xYK


Yeah it's fine as long as you don't need it to tell you anything truthful.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882485)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:16 AM
Author: novus homo (gunneratttt)

it's always bort coders that insist "it's NOT THAT good" and i think it's because they know it's coming for their jobs first

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882448)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:34 AM
Author: https://imgur.com/a/o2g8xYK


The only poaster who's shittier than AI

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882492)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:38 AM
Author: aqua jeet (ðŸ§)

almost everyone who says this is either someone like nsam/mig or a lawyer who thinks its just "smoke and mirrors"

they are incapable of understanding that it will come for lawyers in relatively short order whereas everyone who actually codes realizes what the future looks like

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882500)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:43 AM
Author: https://imgur.com/a/o2g8xYK


wait two weeks

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882508)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:43 AM
Author: aqua jeet (ðŸ§)

you have never had a job

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882510)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:50 AM
Author: https://imgur.com/a/o2g8xYK


You're afraid of losing yours to a graphics card 🤣🤣🤣

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882525)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:53 AM
Author: novus homo (gunneratttt)

you spammed for weeks terrified musk would eliminate your government sinecure and also being MAF that trump made you return to office.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882527)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:54 AM
Author: https://imgur.com/a/o2g8xYK


You forgot to log back into your alt

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882528)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:55 AM
Author: novus homo (gunneratttt)

so i'm already rsf + tdnw + hegemon and now i'm gregor too?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882531)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:54 AM
Author: aqua jeet (ðŸ§)

sorry, what is it exactly that you "do", again? pretty straightforward question

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882530)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 10:06 AM
Author: https://imgur.com/a/o2g8xYK


Log back into your gunnerattt account before I engage you further

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882559)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 10:08 AM
Author: novus homo (gunneratttt)



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882564)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 10:09 AM
Author: aqua jeet (ðŸ§)

I've done so, brother. see the blank bump above (that's me). Now what is it that you Do, sir?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882570)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:44 AM
Author: cowgod ( )

Lawyers are at least protected by a bullshit cartel of sorts. They’ll use it for Losery stuff like doc review, no question.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882511)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:48 AM
Author: novus homo (gunneratttt)

the only reason i think lawyers may be more protected is because we have laws that give us a monopoly and protection from competition. very much of my job could already be outsourced but for the government requiring someone with a law degree and license to do it.

i certainly agree that AI will be capable obviating a lot of legal work. the question is whether we'll let it. i mean, 99% of biglaw does not need to be done and is purposefully juicing up a bill with fakework so the client can prove they did their due diligence. they're not having the 5th associate review something that 4 other competent attorneys reviewed "just to be sure everything correct."

most of law already is makework and so ai automating it wouldn't serve the purpose the work is being done for.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882521)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 1:49 PM
Author: Mainlining the $ecret Truth of the Univer$e (You = Privy to The Great Becumming™ & Yet You Recognize Nothing)



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48883042)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 2:34 PM
Author: ,.,.,.,....,.,..,.,.,.

I don’t see how rates can be maintained when all of the attorneys involved are feeding the tasks to LLMs to do the actual work. Even though they are signing off on it, there would be competition to take on more work since the actual costs involved would be so low. Partners will just squeeze everyone to manage more work and rates will fall. There’s no plausible equilibrium where biglaw associates get to jack off for 7 hours a day and bill at the same rates.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48883141)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:54 AM
Author: Oh, you travel? ( )

it's fine at generating boilerplate code but that is only 15% of what "coders" actually do.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882529)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:56 AM
Author: cowgod ( )

Are you talking about System Design? Generating code is like 90% of what western game developers do and you know it

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882534)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:57 AM
Author: aqua jeet (ðŸ§)

you've been Managing for too long

I can't speak to how good it is at Real Programming (embedded shit, something like developing a database, etc.) but it has no problem whatsoever tackling front or backend web development, which is what employs 90% of coders. it is capable of doing most of what they do with relatively light supervision, which means it will be capable of doing almost all of it with basically no supervision in short order. there's been no indication yet that we will suddenly hit a wall

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882542)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 10:02 AM
Author: cucumbers

(guy with a liberal arts degree)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882549)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 10:02 AM
Author: Oh, you travel? ( )

you're ignoring everything that goes into the development, QA, and production release of some piece of shit business software. Intake, SLAs, unit and penetration testing, deployment pipelines, debugging, User Acceptance Testing, etc.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882551)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 10:08 AM
Author: aqua jeet (ðŸ§)

pipelines are actually a great example of AI significantly cutting down development time. it used to take me eons to comb through documentation when I had to learn some new CI bullshit, now I can fly through it in basically 10% of the time it would have taken me before since all of the concepts are the same and I don't have to bother learning the details of devops vs github actions and blah blah blah whatever hot new nonsense I have to adapt to. it also makes stuff like e.g. terraform, which is a clusterfuck of a language for any human being to have in their head, a breeze to write (since it has verifiable outputs -- the actual infrastructure produced -- it is extremely easy to be confident in AI output). it is not much of a leap from that to near complete automation using a small fraction of the current employed workforce

debugging is the current biggest issue, but as agent workflows improve that will be handled easier. the rest of the shit is not something that coders deal with directly

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882565)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 10:16 AM
Author: Oh, you travel? ( )

the thing about coding is it's pretty fucking easy UNTIL things scale out in complexity and all kinds of moving pieces are added. you can say shit like "this can all be automated champ nbd" but in reality, it never quite works out that way.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882594)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 10:18 AM
Author: aqua jeet (ðŸ§)

of course in reality it will end up something like the top 5-10% (or some similar relatively arbitrary number) of current coders will stick around and do the work it currently takes 10-20x the people to do. fully automated agentic loops are still a ways off. but it will almost certainly kill employment for the vast majority of us, especially anyone unlucky enough to not already be a senior developer or above

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882598)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 10:08 AM
Author: https://imgur.com/a/o2g8xYK




(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882562)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 9:57 AM
Author: cucumbers

i have been coding for around 15 years and hate this shit. i would not mind another WFH sinecure that's not coding. i'm not autistic enough to enjoy it. holy fuck i hate coding

but having tried to apply AI at work, it's wrong at least half the time. if you don't have enough experience with coding you'll have trouble figuring out what's right. when a codebase gets sufficiently complicated, AI offers very little. i will readily admit it helps sometimes, but it's far from being good enough to replace a coder unless you're building extremely simple software

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882537)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 10:03 AM
Author: Jacking off to YouTube videos about low birthrates

I find I'm asking ChatGPT extra questions to verify that it is correct. Sometimes it was wrong and has to correct itself.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882552)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 10:05 AM
Author: cucumbers

i've experienced this multiple times with simple questions where i literally need just one line of code. it just flat-out makes shit up sometimes. and to think this can replace a codecuck..

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882556)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 10:09 AM
Author: https://imgur.com/a/o2g8xYK


No one is using AI to do anything important.

NO | ONE

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882569)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 10:22 AM
Author: Oh, you travel? ( )

"You're absolutely right! I was completely wrong about that answer I just gave you. Here's another answer that offers no assurance of its veracity!"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882618)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 11:34 AM
Author: Jacking off to YouTube videos about low birthrates



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882733)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 11:35 AM
Author: metaphysics is fallow



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882736)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 1:54 PM
Author: jag



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48883062)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 2:14 PM
Author: ,.,.,.,....,.,..,.,.,.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48883112)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 1:48 PM
Author: Mainlining the $ecret Truth of the Univer$e (You = Privy to The Great Becumming™ & Yet You Recognize Nothing)

Cr

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48883040)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 26th, 2025 10:01 AM
Author: cucumbers

ITT: bald, depressed lawyers with BAs in political science pretend to understand coding and AI

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882546)



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Date: April 26th, 2025 10:02 AM
Author: novus homo (gunneratttt)

i'm the only lawyer that has participated in this thread other than zurich and the people that bumped his joke. everyone else is coders.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882548)



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Date: April 26th, 2025 10:07 AM
Author: cowgod ( )

This board is like 27% Engineers plus Lawgineers

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48882560)



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Date: April 26th, 2025 1:43 PM
Author: Oh, You Travel!

I use GitHub Copilot for coding. It's pretty good. It makes errors but gets me 60% of the way where I want to go.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48883031)



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Date: April 26th, 2025 1:53 PM
Author: Jacking off to YouTube videos about low birthrates

Which languages

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5716519&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310486#48883054)