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RANK these Italian cities: Bologna, Milan, Turin, Genoa

in terms of being worth visiting
Balding scourge upon the earth
  03/31/18
Bologna > Genoa > Milan > Turin but all of them ar...
Slate razzmatazz plaza
  03/31/18
I'm planning a vacation where I visit both SAN MARINO and MO...
Balding scourge upon the earth
  03/31/18
leave out Turin and do the other 3 but Florence and Siena a...
Slate razzmatazz plaza
  03/31/18
already been to Florence Siena is not on the main rail li...
Balding scourge upon the earth
  03/31/18
Siena is awesome
Slate razzmatazz plaza
  03/31/18
http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/map.php?file=maps/italy/...
Balding scourge upon the earth
  03/31/18
fair
Slate razzmatazz plaza
  03/31/18
Wtf? Milan above all else, maybe Bologna but screw the other...
fragrant splenetic ceo site
  03/31/18
what's cool to do in Bologna
Balding scourge upon the earth
  03/31/18
Restaurants, drink at euro college bars, Bruno Magli factory...
lake drunken range
  04/01/18
apart from the Duomo and the Scala, and a couple of deliciou...
Slate razzmatazz plaza
  03/31/18
that's why I'd spend one day there en route to Monaco and th...
Balding scourge upon the earth
  03/31/18
Opera, 180 shopping, Sforza castle, last supper, city walls,...
lake drunken range
  04/01/18
I guess I could do the following: Rimini (SAN MARINO) to ...
Balding scourge upon the earth
  03/31/18
do this one
Slate razzmatazz plaza
  03/31/18
that basically makes Milan impossible also all I read abo...
Balding scourge upon the earth
  03/31/18
Genoa is gritty and urban. If you like that kind of thing go...
red cracking parlor keepsake machete
  04/01/18
Bologna is 180
Heady submissive field
  04/01/18
explain - because of the SCHOLARSHIP of Europe's oldest univ...
Balding scourge upon the earth
  04/01/18
This itinerary is kind of shitty and seems shrewy. Who tf ca...
clear senate telephone
  04/01/18
Lucca is CRRRRR
Turquoise excitant crackhouse
  04/01/18
wtf I've literally never heard of it. guess I'm gonna resear...
Balding scourge upon the earth
  04/01/18
i randomly stopped there last time i was in italy and boy am...
Turquoise excitant crackhouse
  04/01/18
please EXPLAIN and ELABORATE
Balding scourge upon the earth
  04/01/18
its just a beautiful little city, gorgeous architecture, the...
Turquoise excitant crackhouse
  04/01/18
k. it's not on the direct rail line so it would have to be a...
Balding scourge upon the earth
  04/01/18
maybe not, depends on your priorities
Turquoise excitant crackhouse
  04/01/18
It's on the line bw Pisa and Florence. Prob some commuter li...
clear senate telephone
  04/01/18
Huh, looks like I can get from Bologna to Lucca directly by ...
Balding scourge upon the earth
  04/01/18
you've never opened up page fucking one of war & peace?
galvanic transparent pistol trailer park
  04/01/18
lol
Mildly autistic trip principal's office roommate
  04/01/18
No - I was a Crime and Punishment teen
Balding scourge upon the earth
  04/01/18
Milan is probably best of those four cities if you have to c...
mint house-broken area genital piercing
  04/01/18
(guy asking why people like trains on a board for autists)
Balding scourge upon the earth
  04/01/18
fair point. but seriously renting a car in Italy is aweso...
mint house-broken area genital piercing
  04/01/18
my wife has a rule against driving in other countries
Balding scourge upon the earth
  04/01/18
it's even the same side of the road! she doesn't have to dri...
mint house-broken area genital piercing
  04/01/18
she just gets super anxious that we'll violate some foreign ...
Balding scourge upon the earth
  04/01/18
grow some testicles and then grow a beard because you're don...
Mildly autistic trip principal's office roommate
  04/01/18
...
Wine Contagious Crotch Preventive Strike
  04/01/18
Milan sucks, it's a dirty industrial city.
bull headed fluffy prole
  04/01/18
what is the CREDITED route to take between San Marino and Mo...
Balding scourge upon the earth
  04/01/18
Monaco is nothing special and if you're going anytime soon i...
bull headed fluffy prole
  04/01/18
breh, I am a shrew who cares about the number of countries I...
Balding scourge upon the earth
  04/01/18
"I don't do international travel unless my country coun...
Shivering generalized bond
  04/01/18
shit's gonna get really kooky once I visit all the low hangi...
Balding scourge upon the earth
  04/01/18
Norway sounds nice, but I really enjoy visiting a place repe...
Shivering generalized bond
  04/01/18
yeah that's actually my situation too, wife is third trimest...
Balding scourge upon the earth
  04/01/18
Nice. Where else are you planning to go? Are your itinerarie...
Shivering generalized bond
  04/01/18
Not by the hour - typically in 3 hour blocks by the time the...
Balding scourge upon the earth
  04/01/18
You can base in Bologna which has some tourist stuff and goo...
bull headed fluffy prole
  04/01/18
See above, wife has a rule against driving in other countrie...
Balding scourge upon the earth
  04/01/18
It's by far the easiest way to get from Bologna to San Marin...
bull headed fluffy prole
  04/01/18
Terrible approach towards life imo
clear senate telephone
  04/01/18
If pressed for time, I'd skip Milan and go here instead: ...
Shivering generalized bond
  04/01/18
You obsession with counting countries is TTT and pointless. ...
lake drunken range
  04/01/18
...
razzle-dazzle seedy dingle berry
  01/28/26


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2018 10:51 PM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

in terms of being worth visiting

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35734347)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2018 10:53 PM
Author: Slate razzmatazz plaza

Bologna > Genoa > Milan > Turin

but all of them are in the 2nd tier of visit-worthy cities

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35734358)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2018 10:54 PM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

I'm planning a vacation where I visit both SAN MARINO and MONACO, and these places are kinda inbetween

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35734363)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2018 11:00 PM
Author: Slate razzmatazz plaza

leave out Turin and do the other 3

but Florence and Siena are just as much or even more "in between" than Milan and FAR better places to visit than Milan

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35734395)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2018 11:01 PM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

already been to Florence

Siena is not on the main rail line the way the other places are, but I can consult the rail maps again to verify

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35734400)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2018 11:01 PM
Author: Slate razzmatazz plaza

Siena is awesome

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35734408)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2018 11:03 PM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/map.php?file=maps/italy/italy.gif

Siena may be awesome, but it's significantly out of the way for my trip

For SAN MARINO, I will be in Rimini. There is basically a straight line of high speed rail connecting Rimini to Bologna and Milan. From Milan, you can get to Monaco most directly via Genoa.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35734416)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2018 11:05 PM
Author: Slate razzmatazz plaza

fair

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35734426)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2018 11:03 PM
Author: fragrant splenetic ceo site

Wtf? Milan above all else, maybe Bologna but screw the others

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35734412)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2018 11:03 PM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

what's cool to do in Bologna

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35734417)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 8:21 PM
Author: lake drunken range

Restaurants, drink at euro college bars, Bruno Magli factory/outlet, Ducati museum.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35739115)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2018 11:04 PM
Author: Slate razzmatazz plaza

apart from the Duomo and the Scala, and a couple of delicious veal dishes, what else is there to see in Milan? answer: not much

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35734424)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2018 11:06 PM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

that's why I'd spend one day there en route to Monaco and then for the rest of my life be able to say I've been to Milan

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35734433)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 8:18 PM
Author: lake drunken range

Opera, 180 shopping, Sforza castle, last supper, city walls, nice parks to stroll through.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35739089)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2018 11:38 PM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

I guess I could do the following:

Rimini (SAN MARINO) to Bologna

Bologna to Pisa

Pisa to Cinque Terre

Cinque Terre to Genoa

Genoa to MONACO

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35734632)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2018 11:41 PM
Author: Slate razzmatazz plaza

do this one

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35734646)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2018 11:42 PM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

that basically makes Milan impossible

also all I read about Genoa says its kind of a dump so maybe we just blow past it straight to Monaco

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35734650)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 12:00 AM
Author: red cracking parlor keepsake machete

Genoa is gritty and urban. If you like that kind of thing go spend a day there walking through the maze of the old city and eating pesto and those anise cookies the nuns make. If you like fancier shit go to Milan instead and shop and eat a nice dinner by the canals.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35734795)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 1:09 AM
Author: Heady submissive field

Bologna is 180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35735158)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 8:08 AM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

explain - because of the SCHOLARSHIP of Europe's oldest university?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35735682)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 4:16 AM
Author: clear senate telephone

This itinerary is kind of shitty and seems shrewy. Who tf cares about San Marino? Looks like you're racking up country visits.

Id stick to bologna maybe Verona. Pisa is a dump but you sound like a shrew so go get your selfie. Lucca is really lovely on the way to Pisa.

I actually find Turin interesting but Genoa is a typical Port dump. Nothing in Milan either.

(not claiming to be an expert)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35735515)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 8:28 AM
Author: Turquoise excitant crackhouse

Lucca is CRRRRR

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35735691)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 8:33 AM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

wtf I've literally never heard of it. guess I'm gonna research it now.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35735696)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 8:35 AM
Author: Turquoise excitant crackhouse

i randomly stopped there last time i was in italy and boy am i glad i did

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35735698)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 8:36 AM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

please EXPLAIN and ELABORATE

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35735700)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 8:40 AM
Author: Turquoise excitant crackhouse

its just a beautiful little city, gorgeous architecture, the city is surrounded by renaissance era walls. pace is generally pretty chill but there is cool stuff to see. idk i liked it

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35735708)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 8:40 AM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

k. it's not on the direct rail line so it would have to be a day trip from Pisa? Do I really want to spend 2 days on Pisa, one a day trip to Lucca? Seems excessive.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35735711)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 8:43 AM
Author: Turquoise excitant crackhouse

maybe not, depends on your priorities

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35735714)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 8:53 AM
Author: clear senate telephone

It's on the line bw Pisa and Florence. Prob some commuter line. But easy to get to. It's much nicer than Pisa and there's no reason to spend more than 20 minutes in pisa

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35735735)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 8:56 AM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

Huh, looks like I can get from Bologna to Lucca directly by train.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35735737)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 5:30 PM
Author: galvanic transparent pistol trailer park

you've never opened up page fucking one of war & peace?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35738034)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 5:37 PM
Author: Mildly autistic trip principal's office roommate

lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35738058)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 5:39 PM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

No - I was a Crime and Punishment teen

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35738066)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 10:40 AM
Author: mint house-broken area genital piercing

Milan is probably best of those four cities if you have to choose. It can't compare to Florence/Venice/Rome but it's really nice and it feels more like a real modern city that people live in rather than a museum. If you go, get tickets to see Leonardo's Last Supper mural in advance (will likely have to be as part of some kind of tour), because you probably won't be able to get them on the day.

Also, why are you so focused on taking trains? You'd have way more fun if you rented a car. And why Monaco - there's nothing to do there except drink a $15 Heineken while looking at parked yachts. They don't even give you free drinks in the casino. The best thing to do in Monaco is leave to either France or Italy.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736058)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 10:40 AM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

(guy asking why people like trains on a board for autists)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736060)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 10:43 AM
Author: mint house-broken area genital piercing

fair point.

but seriously renting a car in Italy is awesome.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736073)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 10:44 AM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

my wife has a rule against driving in other countries

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736076)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 10:59 AM
Author: mint house-broken area genital piercing

it's even the same side of the road! she doesn't have to drive...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736149)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 11:00 AM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

she just gets super anxious that we'll violate some foreign traffic law we don't know about or something like that. she'll have an anxiety attack in the back seat.

totally irrational, but marriage means I have to treat irrational fears seriously

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736153)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 5:38 PM
Author: Mildly autistic trip principal's office roommate

grow some testicles and then grow a beard because you're done here

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35738062)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 9:47 PM
Author: Wine Contagious Crotch Preventive Strike



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35739776)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 10:40 AM
Author: bull headed fluffy prole

Milan sucks, it's a dirty industrial city.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736061)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 10:41 AM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

what is the CREDITED route to take between San Marino and Monaco, then.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736064)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 10:42 AM
Author: bull headed fluffy prole

Monaco is nothing special and if you're going anytime soon it will be dead. Unless you're already going to be near San Marino, there's no real reason to visit. It seems like it's an afternoon at most to see.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736067)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 10:43 AM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

breh, I am a shrew who cares about the number of countries I've been to. I've already been to Italy once before (Rome/Florence/Naples) and if I go back to Italy, it's gotta include San Marino and Monaco so I can at least say I've picked up additional countries on the trip.

I don't do international travel unless my country count increases.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736071)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 10:45 AM
Author: Shivering generalized bond

"I don't do international travel unless my country count increases."

disgusting!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736083)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 10:47 AM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

shit's gonna get really kooky once I visit all the low hanging fruit

one of these days I'm gonna fly to London with a 1 day stopover in Oslo or something weird like that just to add another country

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736091)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 10:51 AM
Author: Shivering generalized bond

Norway sounds nice, but I really enjoy visiting a place repeatedly and getting to know it better each time. With a kid on the way, though, I doubt I'll be flying anywhere for the next 5 years.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736104)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 10:52 AM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

yeah that's actually my situation too, wife is third trimester pregnant

but I love planning trips. this trip is going into a spreadsheet with like 5 other vacations that I have already planned out and won't be able to take until 2019 - 2020 at the earliest lol

I give them German style code names like "Case Dandalo"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736122)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 10:57 AM
Author: Shivering generalized bond

Nice. Where else are you planning to go? Are your itineraries packed by the hour?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736138)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 10:59 AM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

Not by the hour - typically in 3 hour blocks by the time they are fully fleshed out

Currently I have plans for Iceland/Ireland, Netherlands/Belgium/Paris, two different Southeast Asia itineraries, and this new San Marino/Monaco one this thread is about

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736151)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 10:48 AM
Author: bull headed fluffy prole

You can base in Bologna which has some tourist stuff and good restaurants, rent a car to drive to San Marino for the day and fly out of BLQ (prob via FCO) to NCE and go from there to Monaco by train. Why not just go to a few more interesting Euro countries you haven't seen yet? I am going to Kosovo, San Marino, Malta and Andorra on a quick trip between NY and Paris. Can share itin if you're interested.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736099)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 10:51 AM
Author: Balding scourge upon the earth

See above, wife has a rule against driving in other countries

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736103)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 10:53 AM
Author: bull headed fluffy prole

It's by far the easiest way to get from Bologna to San Marino, otherwise you have to take a combo of trains and buses. You could always hire a driver if wife won't let you drivemo it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736126)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 10:51 AM
Author: clear senate telephone

Terrible approach towards life imo

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736111)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 10:45 AM
Author: Shivering generalized bond

If pressed for time, I'd skip Milan and go here instead:

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2012/mar/09/italy-lake-orta-unspoilt

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35736080)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2018 8:23 PM
Author: lake drunken range

You obsession with counting countries is TTT and pointless. You’d have a much better time if you weren’t an autist.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#35739126)



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Date: January 28th, 2026 5:59 PM
Author: razzle-dazzle seedy dingle berry



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3935282&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310894#49627975)