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most embarrassing sport to be a beginner at? golf?
Poast new message in this thread
Date: August 11th, 2026 11:54 AM Author: claret preventive strike (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50060695) |
Date: August 11th, 2026 11:59 AM Author: Bonkers Travel Guidebook Jai alai (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50060706) |
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Date: August 11th, 2026 12:52 PM Author: Passionate forum (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50060808) |
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Date: August 11th, 2026 7:42 PM Author: Hilarious Cocky Orchestra Pit Headpube (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50062060) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 7:37 PM Author: Amethyst contagious water buffalo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50064462) |
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Date: August 11th, 2026 12:28 PM Author: laughsome brindle pit faggotry ifnb. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50060768) |
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Date: August 11th, 2026 12:30 PM Author: Hairraiser charcoal school cafeteria volcanic crater picking up a sport after like 25 is just asking for it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50060771) |
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Date: August 11th, 2026 12:32 PM Author: Irradiated milky affirmative action rigpig ask Kenny (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50060773) |
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Date: August 11th, 2026 12:52 PM Author: Territorial location depressive seems like skiing can actually get yourself seriously injured or killed. and you'd have to start out on the kiddie slopes with a bunch of children. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50060807) |
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Date: August 11th, 2026 12:58 PM Author: Hairraiser charcoal school cafeteria volcanic crater https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZCOGJW962M
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Date: August 11th, 2026 1:52 PM Author: claret preventive strike can confirm as someone who started learning to ski after turning 40 it is very humbling (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50060936) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 9:13 AM Author: Brilliant Sex Offender did you eventually get good, or no? what was the process like, time, instructors, etc? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50063060) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 3:30 PM Author: multi-colored nibblets bawdyhouse you can improve a lot very fast if you pay for private instruction. it's very expensive though (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50063907) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 7:36 PM Author: Brilliant Sex Offender ty (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50064460) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 11:10 PM Author: claret preventive strike good enough to do basic runs after the first 5 days or so. Slightly more competent the next time. Never going to be great but the goal was just to be good enough that I can ski with my kids (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50064895) |
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Date: August 15th, 2026 6:44 PM Author: Brilliant Sex Offender nice! ty. and absolutely, that still sounds like it's given you access. i hear my friends talk about enjoying the apres at the towns in the alps etc and i'm not in the same galaxy bc i can't ski at all. tried as a kid and never really took (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50070004) |
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Date: August 13th, 2026 12:54 PM Author: Cheese-eating ticket booth idiot skiing you just fall a lot until eventually you don't, which is fine as a kid but sucks in your 40s. at that age just pay for private lessons. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50065563) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 3:05 PM Author: multi-colored nibblets bawdyhouse if you take dumb risks, you can hurt yourself. but you can start with some lessons, then practice a lot, always staying without your capabilities. after a few years of regular practice (5-20 days on mountain per year), you can go everywhere on the mountain with the exception of extreme double black stuff.
the key is to go regularly and work your skills. it's always nice to go with someone better than you who will push you a bit. if you take one trip a year for 4-5 days, it's difficult to get better. |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 8:02 PM Author: Territorial location depressive what about the embarrassment of getting publicly styled on by kids? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50064528) |
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Date: August 13th, 2026 7:38 PM Author: multi-colored nibblets bawdyhouse there are always going to be super talented kids wherever you go skiing. just get used to it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50066424) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 8:06 PM Author: Comical Temple Regret Yeah boxing is up there too, speaking from experience (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50064542) |
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Date: August 13th, 2026 6:47 PM Author: Wine gunner anyone who skis to ski instead of to hit the apres bar is low iq (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50066301) |
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Date: August 13th, 2026 7:38 PM Author: multi-colored nibblets bawdyhouse spoken like a true fag (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50066425) |
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Date: August 11th, 2026 12:53 PM Author: offensive metal theater Poasting (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50060811) |
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Date: August 11th, 2026 7:46 PM Author: Hilarious Cocky Orchestra Pit Headpube !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I learned this the hard way circa 2012 when I first heard about XO / 4chan / Reddit from a college buddy of mine considering law school (probably for the better he didn't end up going in his case - very extraverted guy who would have been driven crazy by the expected RIGOR and did great financially in a completely different field)...
...was afraid to poast until 2013, but was then in so many words told how retarded I sounded and needed to lurk moar, so I went back to the drawing board and poasted AGAIN a few times in 2014, then a lot more in 2015 to decent feedback, didn't poast much due to IRL craziness from 2016 to 2020, but then began MEGApoasting as Emilio Estevez circa 1992 starting sometime in late 2020 or early 2021... and the rest is HIStory for better or worse! 🐶 |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 9:15 AM Author: exciting blue casino (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50063064) |
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Date: August 11th, 2026 1:27 PM Author: dark deep space purely individual sports like skiing or even golf u can get away with fucking up and not ruining everyone else's time, if you're hitting it all over the place ur buds will just let u drop constantly. but in tennis or racquetball ur gonna make ur partner miserable and think ur a doofus. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50060894) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 3:07 PM Author: flushed house wrinkle (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50063849) |
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Date: August 11th, 2026 1:28 PM Author: learning disabled titillating toaster surfing
/thread |
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Date: August 13th, 2026 12:51 AM Author: Comical Temple Regret you can just lie down on the board if it's too hard to stand (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50064963) |
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Date: August 13th, 2026 1:07 PM Author: learning disabled titillating toaster well, i mean, no. no not at all really. i'd be happy to elaborate if you need (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50065607) |
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Date: August 11th, 2026 2:45 PM Author: Glittery Burgundy Station Reading Party LotLizard PogoSticking (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50061105) |
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Date: August 11th, 2026 7:50 PM Author: Impressive Church Building Skinny Woman pickleball.
imagine looking like a beginner at this "sport" |
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Date: August 11th, 2026 11:07 PM Author: Pontificating carnelian locale (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50062590) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 9:13 AM Author: Brilliant Sex Offender (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50063061) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 9:16 AM Author: well-lubricated senate lettuce I went to a conference and one of the events you could sign up for was pickleball, so I did. Never played before. Ended up destroying everyone I played, including people who play all the time. After everyone came up to me and asked how long I've been playing and were shocked when I said it was the first time lo. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50063067) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 3:00 PM Author: Impressive Church Building Skinny Woman unless ur a tennis or ping pong player, this is farfethed (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50063838) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 3:08 PM Author: Topaz twisted knife dog poop xo is 80% asian so the chances of one of these being true is extremely high (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50063851) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 3:28 PM Author: well-lubricated senate lettuce I've played tennis a few times. Wouldn't call myself a tennis player. Played ping pong as a kid. How is pickleball supposed to be hard? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50063897) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 9:52 PM Author: Impressive Church Building Skinny Woman it's not hard. it's just not likely that, having never played before, you "destroyed" every single other person -- presumably many of whom had played before -- unless you went to an AARP conference.
if you're reasonably athletic, you would be able to hold your own. but i dont think you destroyed everyone. |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 8:13 PM Author: fuchsia floppy lodge sweet tailpipe This. I remember in college we had to do some weird gym class to graduate it was like 1 credit. Some waste of time.
Only thing open was “racquetball.” I remember the guy teaching it was like some former world champion. When he saw me he was amazed asking how long I did it for. I’m like this is the first time I ever picked it up. You just hit the ball with a racquet then then you get the hang of the bounces you just make it hit weird spots on the wall. He was actually mad I just started. At the time I was playing baseball there at the college.
A lot of lib sports and hobbies any normal athlete can just dominate but no one ever wasted the time. |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 9:56 PM Author: Impressive Church Building Skinny Woman racketball and squash are serious sports that require a ton of skill -- ball striking, movement and strategy.
dont equate them with pickleball, which is a joke. |
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Date: August 13th, 2026 4:21 PM Author: fuchsia floppy lodge sweet tailpipe Not true. Obviously you won’t be a world champion off the street.
But it’s one of those sports that takes in skills from other sports and helps you be “dominant” among regulars.
For example if you’re a great football player and baseball player but never picked up a basketball in your life, you most likely won’t dominate a pickup basketball game.
I bet you any amount of money Tiki Barber can pick up a racquetball thing and dominate 90% of the population bc of his hand eye coordination and strength alone. |
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Date: August 13th, 2026 6:30 PM Author: Impressive Church Building Skinny Woman here's dirk playing tennis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuNbn4GGPNA |
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Date: August 15th, 2026 6:59 PM Author: Cheese-eating ticket booth idiot squash is super easy to pick up as a noob. Racquetball is harder and you have to worry about losing an eye and/or testicle (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50070026) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 3:07 PM Author: flushed house wrinkle i was pretty shocked when pickleball suddenly got big.
i always thought it was just something my elementary PE teacher made up after somebody donated giant ping pong paddles to the school |
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Date: August 15th, 2026 7:05 PM Author: Cheese-eating ticket booth idiot growth line of pickleball aligns very much with the avg age of boomers over the years (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50070030) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 9:17 AM Author: Topaz twisted knife dog poop if u have to ask uve already failed as an "adult" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50063070) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 2:30 PM Author: Comical Temple Regret Water polo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50063781) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 3:07 PM Author: Orange talented immigrant bowling tp (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50063850) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 3:08 PM Author: lemon swashbuckling doctorate I think most people expect someone to be pretty bad at golf. Much more embarrassing to be really bad at tennis or some shit like that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50063853) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 3:16 PM Author: flushed house wrinkle tennis is weird you can be able to hit the ball solidly and as hard as anyone else yet be absolutely terrible at it. is that embarrassing? idk
golf if youre hitting it solid and far youre already like top 10% |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 9:58 PM Author: Impressive Church Building Skinny Woman someone who strikes the tennis ball hard and solid wouldn't be absolutely terrible. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50064737) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 11:37 PM Author: Comical Temple Regret what if it takes you an hour to get to the second hole? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50064927) |
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Date: August 13th, 2026 12:31 AM Author: flushed house wrinkle got paired with a fat neckbeard like this on a public course once. we told him to go back and ask for a refund or credit for the range instead.
as we walked away he not flame yelled "I WISH LIFE WAS LIKE A VIDEO GAME!!" |
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Date: August 13th, 2026 12:50 AM Author: Comical Temple Regret tbf had he played a lot of golf video games? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50064962) |
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Date: August 13th, 2026 12:40 PM Author: flushed house wrinkle probably. i didnt ask. didnt get his console history either (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50065532) |
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Date: August 13th, 2026 12:41 PM Author: Cheese-eating ticket booth idiot if you get paired with an azn then politely request the starter to reassign them to a later group (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50065536) |
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Date: August 13th, 2026 9:15 PM Author: Impressive Church Building Skinny Woman Oriental Stanford Golfer Takes 1:20 To Line Up 8 Foot Putt, Misses (VID)
https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5884350&mc=2&forum_id=2 |
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Date: August 15th, 2026 6:35 PM Author: Comical Temple Regret (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50069996) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 3:11 PM Author: flushed house wrinkle i never really judged anyone for completely sucking at golf. sometimes its pretty funny though
otoh if i saw a "man" trying to field in baseball/softball and they threw like a girl id probably think theyre a faggot forever |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 8:08 PM Author: Adulterous 180 gaming laptop SCUBA (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50064547) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 10:13 PM Author: Histrionic dysfunction i feel like the answer has to be running because there’s like 12yos running sub 6 miles and every other feat that would take your 30+ yo ass years of dedicated training to achieve (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50064767) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 10:36 PM Author: Comical Temple Regret people who can't run just walk to the finish line (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50064832) |
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Date: August 12th, 2026 10:47 PM Author: Impressive Church Building Skinny Woman what's does a beginner at running even mean? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50064855) |
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Date: August 13th, 2026 12:55 AM Author: bateful dead rehab trump supporter lol who is still playing sports here we’re like 45-49 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50064967) |
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Date: August 13th, 2026 12:57 AM Author: Comical Temple Regret gymnastics. you won't even be wearing the right kind of clothes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50064968) |
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Date: August 13th, 2026 1:09 PM Author: learning disabled titillating toaster (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50065614) |
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Date: August 13th, 2026 7:41 PM Author: Boyish Toilet Seat Box Office i can barely even imagine a 'beginner' adult powerlifter. imagine some aging guy walking into a powerlifter gym and fiddling around with weights that are substantially lighter than what the gym's women use. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50066430) |
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Date: August 13th, 2026 11:25 PM Author: Comical Temple Regret He could just lift extremely light weights (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50066965) |
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Date: August 13th, 2026 9:19 PM Author: Misanthropic stimulating juggernaut theater stage golf is absolutely the least embarassing sport to suck at as a beginner, plenty of doods have been playing for decades and still suck ass, you should get a lesson or two and hit the range enough to be making contact with the ball but once you can do that, which isn't hard, you're probably only 10 strokes behind people who have played for years (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50066687) |
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Date: August 14th, 2026 10:56 AM Author: claret preventive strike (average xo poa) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50067578) |
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Date: August 14th, 2026 11:15 AM Author: multi-colored nibblets bawdyhouse average handicap is 14 according to usga: https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/world-handicap-system/whs-stats.html
someone new who is just making contact with the ball is probably 2-4 strokes per hole behind average. |
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Date: August 14th, 2026 12:35 PM Author: Impressive Church Building Skinny Woman agreed. keep in mind that only serious players and bored boomers have an official usga hcp index. does your average weekend golfer even bother getting an official hcp?
14 hcp is a mid-80's golfer.
most golfers arent even bogey golfers w/o cheating (mulligans, drops, picking up 5 feet putts) |
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Date: August 14th, 2026 12:36 PM Author: Cheese-eating ticket booth idiot you get it through your country club obviously (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50067777) |
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Date: August 14th, 2026 12:38 PM Author: Impressive Church Building Skinny Woman anyone who is part of a country club is serious and/or a bored boomer.
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Date: August 15th, 2026 2:44 PM Author: Cheese-eating ticket booth idiot ppl over 40 with decent jobs who don’t belong to a cc confuse me (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50069759) |
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Date: August 14th, 2026 12:35 PM Author: Cheese-eating ticket booth idiot golf at that level is less about your score and more about being able to hit it consistent enough to not look like a retard and not fuck up the rest of the group's round (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50067775) |
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Date: August 14th, 2026 6:57 PM Author: Misanthropic stimulating juggernaut theater stage have you heard of the term "selection bias?" the average golfer doesn't have a handicap
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Date: August 15th, 2026 3:36 PM Author: Violent Puppy Hell Many issues spotted in this post
The biggest is that you assumed an average golfer registered their handicap with USGA |
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Date: August 15th, 2026 7:02 PM Author: Cheese-eating ticket booth idiot Kind of strange that you buy thousands of $ worth of golf equipment but stop short at a $50 ghin fee (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50070028) |
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Date: August 15th, 2026 8:05 PM Author: Violent Puppy Hell Nobody cares. Are you refuting that the average handicap is much higher than whatever USGA said? If not then STFU (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50070074) |
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Date: August 15th, 2026 9:36 PM Author: Cheese-eating ticket booth idiot I’m saying that dropping a bunch of $ on golf equipment and good amount of your time and mental energy towards it but never playing in any kind of game where you would need a real handicap is sort of dumb. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50070211) |
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Date: August 15th, 2026 10:37 PM Author: Misanthropic stimulating juggernaut theater stage are you aware that most normal people don't ever engage in a sanctioned athletic event after high school? Surely you are (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50070321) |
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Date: August 14th, 2026 12:35 PM Author: Impressive Church Building Skinny Woman you sound really stupid. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50067774) |
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Date: August 14th, 2026 6:56 PM Author: Misanthropic stimulating juggernaut theater stage why? most golfers are hacks and it isn't that hard to become a hack as well (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50068609) |
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Date: August 14th, 2026 11:35 AM Author: dun razzle elastic band base Football. Because it shows you did not play in high school therefore you are a pussy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50067650) |
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Date: August 15th, 2026 6:37 PM Author: Comical Temple Regret it was the only sport I felt "naturally" good at outside of water sports, but I didn't like it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50070000) |
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Date: August 15th, 2026 9:38 PM Author: Cheese-eating ticket booth idiot HS football players who go through years of bullshit only to be perpetual benchwarmers are probably the biggest pussies out there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50070218) |
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Date: August 15th, 2026 9:59 PM Author: fuchsia floppy lodge sweet tailpipe (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50070244) |
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Date: August 15th, 2026 10:07 PM Author: deranged motley telephone principal's office Starcraft, you will die instantly every time and there is nobody but yourself to blame (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5891943&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310909#50070253) |