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IS CONSCIOUSNESS FADING IN MODERN SOCIETY?

This is a top notch read https://gaiusbaltar.substack.com...
cock of michael obama
  12/22/24
...
cock of michael obama
  12/22/24
very good stuff. this is my primary area of work and study. ...
A Very Online Christmas
  12/22/24
...
cock of michael obama
  12/22/24
...
merry screenmas
  12/23/24
I wouldn't say top notch, but it's a sight better than a con...
FizzKidd
  12/22/24
(Missing right brain intuition)
cock of michael obama
  12/22/24
haven't read the whole thing yet, but I highly disagree with...
,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,
  12/22/24
The reasoning happens unconsciously but it doesn’t get...
cock of michael obama
  12/22/24
okey I should have read more before I poasted but I just fou...
,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,
  12/22/24
(guy who solved the problem of induction as an undergrad)
A Very Online Christmas
  12/22/24
...
cock of michael obama
  12/22/24
different thing and I definitely didn't, but the problem of ...
,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,
  12/22/24
It was a joke friend I'd be interested in reading your th...
A Very Online Christmas
  12/22/24
[redacted – I've done much, much better work] great...
,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,
  12/22/24
It feels like his anecdote was probably an azn birdbrain. Wh...
cowgod
  12/22/24
Don’t be mean to Fizzkidd
cock of michael obama
  12/22/24
Herding and mob mentality have never heretofore been observe...
UN peacekeeper
  12/22/24
No white people are just being blotted out by international ...
i should call her
  12/22/24
this
barnabyjones
  12/23/24
lol this is just cons whining about “why do libs make ...
"'''''"'''"""''''"
  12/22/24
...
UN peacekeeper
  12/22/24
literally this
,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,
  12/23/24
ALL THAT I AM IS FADING THE MEMORY OF A GODS EXISTENCE BORN...
the place where there is no darkness
  12/22/24
interesting topic.  not at all impressed with his analy...
,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,
  12/23/24
I've reorganized my thoughts into an argument directed towar...
,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,
  12/23/24
Good poast. It's rare for women to be this thoughtful and we...
A Very Online Christmas
  12/23/24
🤣🤣🤣 what gave it away, first para?
,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,
  12/23/24
email me
A Very Online Christmas
  12/23/24
...
merry screenmas
  12/23/24
...
,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,
  12/23/24
sorry, box, but your thought process reflects your physiogno...
cock of michael obama
  12/23/24
sounds like u know you're outclassed
,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,
  12/23/24
...
FizzKidd
  12/24/24
wow
FizzKidd
  12/23/24
titc "wow" – he posted the article with such...
,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,
  12/23/24
sing it, sister
UN peacekeeper
  12/24/24
OP respond to my critique or retire in shame
,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,
  12/24/24


Poast new message in this thread



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Date: December 22nd, 2024 2:08 PM
Author: cock of michael obama

This is a top notch read

https://gaiusbaltar.substack.com/p/is-consciousness-fading-in-modern

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48475536)



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Date: December 22nd, 2024 2:28 PM
Author: cock of michael obama



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48475596)



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Date: December 22nd, 2024 2:39 PM
Author: A Very Online Christmas

very good stuff. this is my primary area of work and study. i don't see many other people write publicly about this. he hits pretty much all the key points

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48475639)



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Date: December 22nd, 2024 2:45 PM
Author: cock of michael obama



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48475661)



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Date: December 23rd, 2024 10:57 AM
Author: merry screenmas



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48478379)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 22nd, 2024 2:47 PM
Author: FizzKidd (derpy STEM dysgenic)

I wouldn't say top notch, but it's a sight better than a consuela blog

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48475675)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 22nd, 2024 2:49 PM
Author: cock of michael obama

(Missing right brain intuition)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48475685)



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Date: December 22nd, 2024 3:19 PM
Author: ,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,


haven't read the whole thing yet, but I highly disagree with the idea that synthetic/inductive reasoning must be conscious.  we ALWAYS subconsciously notice patterns and apply them to novel stimuli; that's how things like unconscious bias happen.  our brains were built to generalize.

to be fair, iirc, I once wrote a paper taking issue with Kant's distinction between synthetic and analytic truths – arguing that there's no difference at all – particularly the idea of distinguishing between them on the basis of the process of reasoning.  I remember my prof found one of my counterexamples very convincing, but I can't find the paper now. o__0 I think I showed how one of Kant's (or Quine's? or Chalmers'?) examples of inductive reasoning could be reduced to deductive reasoning.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48475829)



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Date: December 22nd, 2024 3:24 PM
Author: cock of michael obama

The reasoning happens unconsciously but it doesn’t get integrated properly unless it’s verbalized to oneself. If it’s not consciously integrated it “leaks out” after being suppressed in unexpected and uncontrollable ways. This is basic jungian stuff

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48475843)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 22nd, 2024 3:54 PM
Author: ,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,


okey I should have read more before I poasted but I just found "The patterns that emerge are based on the strengths of associations and are not necessarily logical. They must therefore be evaluated consciously." so objectionable (on two levels) that I had to reply ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'll finish reading later

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48475939)



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Date: December 22nd, 2024 3:27 PM
Author: A Very Online Christmas

(guy who solved the problem of induction as an undergrad)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48475857)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 22nd, 2024 3:29 PM
Author: cock of michael obama



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48475869)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 22nd, 2024 3:55 PM
Author: ,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,


different thing and I definitely didn't, but the problem of induction is one of my fav examples to give people about what kind of (useless but super interesting) questions we study in analytic philosophy 👍🏻

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48475945)



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Date: December 22nd, 2024 3:57 PM
Author: A Very Online Christmas

It was a joke friend

I'd be interested in reading your thesis if you can somehow scrounge it up. Also I'm not so sure about it being useless. We're about to hit a very brave new world of induction-based artificial intelligence

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48475951)



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Date: December 22nd, 2024 7:10 PM
Author: ,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,


[redacted – I've done much, much better work]

great point about AI – I hadn't thought about that – ofc phil/mind is more relevant than ever, but you're totally right about epistemology becoming increasingly significant too

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48476541)



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Date: December 22nd, 2024 3:32 PM
Author: cowgod

It feels like his anecdote was probably an azn birdbrain. Why don't we just say that Race and Sex are salient?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48475879)



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Date: December 22nd, 2024 3:33 PM
Author: cock of michael obama

Don’t be mean to Fizzkidd

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48475882)



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Date: December 22nd, 2024 3:43 PM
Author: UN peacekeeper

Herding and mob mentality have never heretofore been observed

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48475899)



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Date: December 22nd, 2024 4:09 PM
Author: i should call her

No white people are just being blotted out by international jewery

This concept doesn't even exist in other races



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48475977)



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Date: December 23rd, 2024 1:14 PM
Author: barnabyjones

this

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48478853)



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Date: December 22nd, 2024 4:16 PM
Author: "'''''"'''"""''''"

lol this is just cons whining about “why do libs make fun of our conspiracy theories???”

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48476006)



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Date: December 22nd, 2024 4:33 PM
Author: UN peacekeeper



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48476069)



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Date: December 23rd, 2024 12:01 AM
Author: ,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,


literally this

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48477355)



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Date: December 22nd, 2024 5:14 PM
Author: the place where there is no darkness

ALL THAT I AM IS FADING

THE MEMORY OF A GODS EXISTENCE BORN FROM THE CHAOS OF CREATION

IT IS VANISHING

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48476218)



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Date: December 23rd, 2024 12:00 AM
Author: ,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,


interesting topic.  not at all impressed with his analysis.  a few notes:

first of all, it has to be said: the author is fucking insufferable.  the way he talks about that woman at the beginning to frame the concept?  my guess is that they dated, and whenever they disagreed about something, he accused her of being bad at reasoning and self-reflection¹ because he himself is rigid in his thinking.  and now he's turned her into this whole case study in epistemology to feel superior to her.²

his point about "stagnation" implies he's never read Kuhn's work on paradigms.  on the societal level, it's actually productive to have periods of "normal science" where we stick to certain schools of thought rather than immediately revising our beliefs whenever we accumulate a bit more knowledge.  this makes way for scientific revolution when we've gathered a LOT more evidence and can propose a clean new model.  as an individual, the standard for revising our mental models can be lower and we can tweak them more often than we do as a scientific community, BUT we still need to strike a balance.  we can't over-adjust with every single new piece of info.  stagnating, to a certain degree, is important: it provides consistency and stability and allows us to fully explore a framework before discarding it.  this dude seems like the type to believe a new conspiracy theory every day.

don't get me wrong: he's right that most people are fucking stupid, mindless sheep.  but his theory is overly-contrived nonsense.  he doesn't need the deduction/induction distinction.  all reasoning about the real world is necessarily built on premises derived from observation, i.e. induction.

it sounds like they're both good at formal logic, so the difference between how he reasons and how his (I assume) ex-girlfriend reasons is just that they incorporate their experiences differently into their webs of belief (see Quine).  she's more hesitant than he is to draw new conclusions based on incomplete information.  and that's fine!  he did absolutely nothing to demonstrate that she examines her mental processes any less than he does – he just SAID she did.³

it's not that complicated, bro.  there are two obvious, overarching reasons so many people believe dumb things.  one is that they are bad at analyzing evidence to form and revise beliefs on top of existing ones; it doesn't matter how much of their process is deductive vs. inductive.  the other is, as he touched upon, that their lower-level assumptions/axioms/priors are bad.  again, all beliefs are just reasoning on top of observations, so this ultimately comes to the same thing as the first, but it's useful to think about them separately in the process of arriving at conclusions.  an important consideration about this point is that many people are brainwashed.  their lower-level assumptions – toward the center of their webs of belief – generally include having way too much faith in people whom they consider authorities.  I don't think that's new, though.  I think this guy just thought about epistemology for the first time and wrote a messy article about why he thinks he's smarter than anyone who reaches different conclusions from his.

--

¹and don't forget ~eMoTiOnAl~

²the genopolitics story was a self-own – I'm not saying there's definitely no merit to the idea, but he absolutely didn't demonstrate that she was bad at inductive reasoning bc she didn't buy into that shit smh

³she has poor spatial awareness!!  oh what a cognitive deficit!!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48477354)



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Date: December 23rd, 2024 1:29 AM
Author: ,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,


I've reorganized my thoughts into an argument directed toward him, which might be easier to parse, since my poast was very stream-of-consciousness.

--

Allow me to perform some inductive reasoning of my own!  It sounds like you have a highly-intelligent ex-girlfriend who often came to different conclusions from your own.  Because you yourself are rigid in your thinking, you reconciled these differences by accusing her of being bad at reasoning and self-reflection, and (of course!) "emotional."

Here are a few Philosophy 101 concepts to look into, if you're not already aware of them, and why I think your analysis could benefit from (re)considering them:

1. 𝙆𝙪𝙝𝙣'𝙨 𝙞𝙙𝙚𝙖 𝙤𝙛 𝙥𝙖𝙧𝙖𝙙𝙞𝙜𝙢 𝙨𝙝𝙞𝙛𝙩𝙨.  This may better inform your thoughts about stagnation.  Basically, Kuhn says that on the societal level, it's actually productive to have periods of "normal science" where we stick to certain schools of thought rather than immediately revising our beliefs whenever we accumulate a bit more knowledge.  This makes way for "scientific revolution" when we've gathered a _lot_ of evidence and can propose a clean, new model.

On an individual level (and this part is just me spitballing; I'm not sure what/if he's written about applying this to individuals), the standard for revising our mental models can be lower and we can tweak them more often than we do as a scientific community.  _But_ we still need to strike a balance.  We can't over-adjust with every single new piece of info.  Stagnating, to a certain degree, is important: it provides consistency and stability and allows us to fully explore a framework before discarding it.

2. 𝙌𝙪𝙞𝙣𝙚'𝙨 𝙬𝙚𝙗 𝙤𝙛 𝙗𝙚𝙡𝙞𝙚𝙛𝙨. I'm probably gonna butcher this summary, but: Quine proposed that beliefs are interconnected like a web, where the strands represent logical, empirical, or conceptual relationships.  Changing any belief can affect others, depending on their connections.

Under this framework, Quine challenges the analytic/synthetic distinction, as each belief emerges from a combination of conclusions derived through formal logic and synthesis.  The web of beliefs renders your distinction between deductive and inductive reasoning inconsequential, offering a clearer way to understand how people arrive at flawed beliefs.  One reason is that they're bad at forming and revising beliefs on top of existing ones (using deduction _and_ induction).  The other is, as you touched upon, that their lower-level assumptions/axioms/priors -- the things closer to the center of their webs of belief -- are fundamentally flawed.  It's useful to consider these things separately.  When you do, you see another reason many people mindlessly accept bad ideas -- one which I think you overlooked.  It's because their close-to-central assumptions include having way too much faith in people whom they consider authorities; in other words, they're brainwashed.

I think that the difference between how you reason and how your ex-girlfriend (I assume) reasons is just that you incorporate your experiences differently into your webs of belief.  She's more hesitant than you are to draw new conclusions based on incomplete information.  And that's fine!  You did nothing to demonstrate that she examines her mental processes any less than you do -- you just said she does.  (Having poor spatial awareness means nothing.)  Your piece comes across as an attempt to rationalize why you believe your reasoning process is superior to others', particularly those who reach conclusions different from yours.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48477499)



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Date: December 23rd, 2024 10:51 AM
Author: A Very Online Christmas

Good poast. It's rare for women to be this thoughtful and well-spoken

You single?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48478361)



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Date: December 23rd, 2024 1:03 PM
Author: ,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,


🤣🤣🤣 what gave it away, first para?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48478825)



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Date: December 23rd, 2024 9:46 PM
Author: A Very Online Christmas

email me

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48480409)



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Date: December 23rd, 2024 1:30 PM
Author: merry screenmas



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48478903)



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Date: December 23rd, 2024 2:27 PM
Author: ,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,




(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48479115)



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Date: December 23rd, 2024 2:30 PM
Author: cock of michael obama

sorry, box, but your thought process reflects your physiognomy:

https://substack.com/@theshapeofpunktocome

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4142a74b-c168-4a2f-b9bf-6322a3c9c91a_2268x2268.jpeg

there's just no point in debating here

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48479127)



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Date: December 23rd, 2024 2:32 PM
Author: ,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,


sounds like u know you're outclassed

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48479139)



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Date: December 24th, 2024 9:46 AM
Author: FizzKidd (Chinese Becky)



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48481440)



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Date: December 23rd, 2024 9:50 PM
Author: FizzKidd (Chinese Becky)

wow

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48480414)



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Date: December 23rd, 2024 11:53 PM
Author: ,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,


titc "wow" – he posted the article with such high praise but was completely unable to engage with the subject matter?!  and then he got all creepy instead of abandoning the thread in shame 🙄🙄

not sure if we've ever overlapped but I've seen only good things about you in the couple days I've been on, and it's no small feat to be liked here as a woman 👋🏻

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48480698)



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Date: December 24th, 2024 9:37 AM
Author: UN peacekeeper

sing it, sister

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48481422)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 24th, 2024 12:05 PM
Author: ,.,,...,,,,,........,,,,,,,,,,,,,


OP respond to my critique or retire in shame

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5652911&forum_id=2\u0026mark_id=5310910",#48481933)